Reviewing The Evidence Against Oswald On 11/24/63

[David Von Pein]

I suspect, based on a conversation or two I've had with him, that [William] Newman is pretty tired of being told "what he thinks" that he's become more adamant about what he thinks now, and partially in response to what people think he thought then ... no matter what he thought then.

I have merely pointed out what William E. Newman has said (over a period of time), and the location in Dealey Plaza where Newman said he thought the shots came from, via a map that he marked in July of 1986.

I then took those statements (and the map demonstration) and arrived at some fairly basic conclusions:

1.) William Newman never said the shots came from the "picket fence" area of the Grassy Knoll (which is the location where a vast majority of CTers think shots came from).

2.) Newman made it very clear in 2003 that his observation about the President being hit in the "side of the temple" was based more on the VISUAL impact of the President's head exploding just a few feet in front of Newman's eyes than it was any SOUND that he heard.

3.) Newman heard only TWO gunshots fired. (Certainly not consistent with ANY conspiracy theories at all.)

4.) Newman, in 1986, said he thought the shots came from a place in Dealey Plaza where it later became obvious that NO SHOTS CAME FROM. Not even any CTers think any shots came from here:

In conclusion:

William E. Newman is not a good witness for "conspiracy" in the murder of John F. Kennedy. And the conspiracy theorists who continue to utilize Mr. Newman's statements and observations to attempt to bolster their claims that a gunman was shooting from the picket fence on the Grassy Knoll are not being honest about Mr. Newman's actual observations and statements over the years. Simple as that.

Edited December 21, 2011 by David Von Pein

[Gil Jesus]

.... the conspiracy theorists who continue to utilize Mr. Newman's statements and observations to attempt to bolster their claims that a gunman was shooting from the picket fence on the Grassy Knoll are not being honest about Mr. Newman's actual observations and statements over the years. Simple as that.

No. YOU'RE not being honest about his statements. Newman obviously erred in that 1986 video because two years later, IN 1988 he was interviewed again and guess where he said the shots came from ?

Edited December 21, 2011 by Gil Jesus

[David Von Pein]

Let me try this for the 13th time now:

William Newman is on record (within 25 minutes of the assassination) saying that he thought there were TWO shots, with both of those shots coming from "directly behind" him from the direction of the "garden" behind him, which is not the picket fence area (like it or not).

And in his 2003 interview, Newman goes into even more detail about his observations (Part 2, linked below, at the 6:20 mark), when Bill Newman says that his opinion about the direction from which the head shot came was derived more from the "visual impact that it had on me more so than the noise".

Newman saw the right side of JFK's head explode, and he immediately interpreted that VISUAL experience (incorrectly) as a bullet that struck the President in the right-front (temple) area of his head. And Newman explicitly says that very thing in this 2003 interview:

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/GayleN

Edited December 21, 2011 by David Von Pein

[Pat Speer]

Let me try this for the 13th time now:

William Newman is on record (within 25 minutes of the assassination) saying that he thought there were TWO shots, with both of those shots coming from "directly behind" him from the direction of the "garden" behind him, which is not the picket fence area (like it or not).

And in his 2003 interview, Newman goes into even more detail about his observations (Part 2, linked below, at the 6:20 mark), when Bill Newman says that his opinion about the direction from which the head shot came was derived more from the "visual impact that it had on me more so than the noise".

Newman saw the right side of JFK's head explode, and he immediately interpreted that VISUAL experience (incorrectly) as a bullet that struck the President in the right-front (temple) area of his head. And Newman explicitly says that very thing in this 2003 interview:

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/GayleN

In his Shaw trial testimony, Newman pointed out the location from where he believed the shots had been fired. Is anyone aware of an exhibit showing where he'd pointed? I'm wondering if it matches up with his later recollections.

From patspeer.com, chapter 7:

William Newman was standing on the north side of Elm Street with his wife and two kids and can be seen in the Muchmore film just behind Kennedy as the fatal shot is fired. (11-22-63 interview on WFAA, prior to the announcement of the President's death, at approximately 12:45) “We were, we just come from Love Field after seeing the President and First Lady, and we were just in front of the triple underpass on Elm Street at the edge of the curb, getting ready to wave at the President. (After being asked to clarify his position) We were halfway in between the triple underpass. We were at the curb when this incident happened. But the President’s car was some fifty feet in front of us still yet in front of us coming toward us when we heard the first shot and the President. I don't know who was hit first but the President jumped up in his seat, and I thought it scared him, I thought it was a firecracker, cause he looked, you know, fear. And then as the car got directly in front of us well a gunshot apparently from behind us hit the President in the side of the temple.” (As he says this last line he points to his left temple) (When asked if he thought the first shot came form the same location) "I think it came from the same location apparently back up on the mall, whatchacallit." (When asked if he thought the shot came from the viaduct) "Yes, sir, no, no, not on the viaduct itself but up on top of the hill, on the mound, of ground, in the garden." (When asked from how far away the shots were fired) "I have no idea. I didn't see where the gunshots come from. I believe we was looking directly at the President when he was hit. He was more or less directly in front of us. We didn't realize what happened until we seen the side of his head, when the bullet hit him. (When asked if he saw blood) "Yes sir, we seen it. I seen it" (11-22-63 second interview on WFAA, prior to the announcement of Kennedy's death, at approximately 1:00 PM) (When asked if he felt the shots came from different directions) "No sir, actually I feel that they both come from directly behind where we were standing. The President, it looked like he was looking in that direction. I don't know whether he was hit first. Apparently he wasn't. It looked like he jumped up in his seat, and when he jumped up he was shot directly in his head. I don't know whatchacallit--the mall behind us--but apparently (interviewer Jay Watson finishing his thought) "that's where he was." (11-22-63 third interview on WFAA, at approximately 1:10 PM) “My wife and my two sons were standing at the curb, looking at the President approaching us, when we heard a blast. And the President looked like that he right jumped up in his seat, and by that time he was directly in front of us. And then he......we seen him get shot in the side of the head. He fell back in the seat and Governor Connally was holding his stomach." (When asked if the shots were almost simultaneous) "Yes sir, they were probably 10 seconds apart." (When asked if he heard a third shot) "I didn't hear a third...I don't recall a third shot. There may have been. We hit...my family hit the ground. I don't recall a third shot. I just couldn't...I'm not certain of that. I do know I heard two shots." (11-22-63 statement to Dallas Sheriff’s Department, 24H219) “We were standing at the edge of the curb looking at the car as it was coming toward us and all of a sudden there was a noise, apparently gunshot. The President jumped up in his seat, and it looked like what I thought was firecracker had went off and I thought he had realized it. It was just like an explosion and he was standing up. By this time he was directly in front of us and I was looking directly at him when he was hit in the side of the head.” (11-24-63 FBI report, 22H842) “when the President’s car was approximately 50 feet from him proceeding in a westerly direction on Elm Street, he heard the first shots fired...the shots were fired in rapid succession which he thought at the time was a firecracker. The car was proceeding toward him and it seemed that the President’s arms went up and that he raised up in his seat and started to look around. The car proceeded to a point about even with him and he could see Governor John Connally was holding his stomach. About that time another shot was fired which he estimated was ten seconds after the first shot was fired. At that time he heard the bullet strike the president and saw flesh fly from the President’s head… Newman first thought the President and Governor were playing some kind of a game.”

(11-29-66 interview with Josiah Thompson) “In my opinion the ear went…My thoughts were that the shot entered there and apparently the thoughts of the Warren Commission were that the shot came out that side.” (2-17-69 testimony in the trial of Clay Shaw) (When asked how many shots he heard) "I heard at least three. I often thought of four, but I can't clearly say there were four shots; I can clearly say there were three." (When asked if he developed an impression from where the shots had been fired) Yes, sir. From the sound of the shots, the report of the rifle or whatever it was, it sounded like they were coming directly behind from where I was standing." (When asked to point out the location on an aerial photograph of the plaza) "In my opinion, the sounds of the shots sounded as if they had come from directly behind me (indicating). I was standing near this light standard here, and I thought the shots were coming from back here, and apparently everybody else did because they all ran in that direction." (When asked to point it out on a mock up of the plaza) "(Indicating) From back in this direction here directly behind me. At the time -- you want me to mention the third shot?" (When asked to describe the shooting in more detail) “My wife and myself were watching the parade come toward us. We had to more or less step off the curb to look up the street, and as the car was approaching I heard two shots -- BOOM, BOOM -- and when the first shot was fired the President throwed his hands up like this (demonstrating), and at the time what we thought had happened, somebody throwed firecrackers or something under the automobile and he was protecting his face. At the time of the first shot Governor Connally turned in his seat in this manner (demonstrating), to look back at the President I suppose, and then the second shot was fired, and then as the car approached us to where we were standing, I could see Governor Connally leaning back in his seat holding his hands down like this (demonstrating), and at that time I could see blood on his shirt, and that is when I actually realized that it appeared, you know, he had been shot. The President all the time was staying in an upright position in his seat and it looked like he was looking into the crowd of people as if he was trying to see someone. I caught a glimpse of his eyes, just looked like a cold stare, he just looked through me, and then when the car was directly in front of me, well, that is when the third shot was fired and it hit him in the side of the head right above the ear and his ear come off… I observed his ear flying off, and he turned just real white and then blood red, and the President, when the third shot hit him he just went stiff like a board and fell over to his left in his wife's lap, and I told my wife, "That is it, hit the ground," and that is when we hit the ground because I thought the shots were coming over our heads. And then I looked back and I saw Mrs. Kennedy jumping up on the back end of the car and the Secret Service man or whoever it was into the car, and then they shot on off, took off." (When asked how far he'd been from Kennedy at the time of the fatal shot) ”I was the width of one lane, approximately 10 or 15 feet. I was standing on the curb's edge, edge of the curb. They were in the second lane." (When asked Kennedy's reaction to the shot) "The only reaction that I can recall -- I don't recall whether his head went back or forward, but I do recall when the impact hit him that he just stiffened and he went to the left, real hard to the left and into her lap, and... He went away from me."

[David Josephs]

Let me try this for the 13th time now:

William Newman is on record (within 25 minutes of the assassination) saying that he thought there were TWO shots, with both of those shots coming from "directly behind" him from the direction of the "garden" behind him, which is not the picket fence area (like it or not).

And in his 2003 interview, Newman goes into even more detail about his observations (Part 2, linked below, at the 6:20 mark), when Bill Newman says that his opinion about the direction from which the head shot came was derived more from the "visual impact that it had on me more so than the noise".

Newman saw the right side of JFK's head explode, and he immediately interpreted that VISUAL experience (incorrectly) as a bullet that struck the President in the right-front (temple) area of his head. And Newman explicitly says that very thing in this 2003 interview:

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/GayleN

Roy Truly... less than 5 minutes after the assassination... and he was standing directly in front of the TSBD almost directly beneath the windows where shots were supposed to have been fired from...

Campbell, standing right next to him, says the same thing.... also within minutes of the shots...

Are DVP's witnesses any more reliable or believeable than these?

Mr. BELIN. What did you do when you got to the seventh floor?

Mr. TRULY. We ran up a little stairway that leads out through a little penthouse on to the roof.

Mr. BELIN. What did you do on the roof?

Mr. TRULY. We ran immediately to the west side of the building. There is a wall around the building that you cannot see over without getting your foot between the mortar of the stones and, or some such toehold. We did that and looked over the ground and the railroad tracks below. There we saw many officers and a lot of spectators, people running up and down.

Mr. BELIN. Did the officer say to you why he wanted to go up to the roof?

Mr. TRULY. No. At that time, he didn't.

Mr. BELIN. Did he ever prior to meeting you again on March 20th tell you why he wanted to go on the roof?

Mr. TRULY. No, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Where did you think the shots came from?

Mr. TRULY. I thought the shots came from the vicinity of the railroad or the WPA project, behind the WPA project west of the building.

Mr. BELIN. Did you have any conversation with the officer that you can remember? About where you thought the shots came from?

Mr. TRULY. Yes. When--some time in the course, I believe, after we reached the roof, the officer looked down over the boxcars and the railroad tracks and the crowd below. Then he looked around the edge of the roof for any evidence of anybody being there. And then looked up at the runways and the big sign on the-roof.

He saw nothing.

He came over. And some time about then I said, "Officer, I think"--let's back up.

I believe the officer told me as we walked down into the seventh floor, "Be careful, this man will blow your head off."

And I told the officer that I didn't feel like the shots came from the building.

I said, "I think we are wasting our time up here," or words to that effect, "I don't believe these shots came from the building."

OCHUS V. CAMPBELL, 7120 Twin Lakes Lane, Dallas, Texas, furnished the following information:

He is the Vice President of the Texas School Book Depository Company, with offices located on the second floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building in Dallas.

On November 22, 1963, he was present at his office at the above named building and at about 12:30 PM on that day, he and several other associates were together stationed about 30 feet in front of this building facing away from the building observing the passing motorcade containing President KENNEDY. At this time, he heard a loud report, which at first he considered to be a fire cracker or some object set off by a crank and believed the noise came from away from his building. This illusion, he explained, may have been due to the sound bouncing off the building and other objects in the vicinity.

Mr. BELIN. Before you turned and went back into the building did you---did Mr. Campbell say anything to you?

Mrs. REID. He said, "Oh, Mrs. Reid, no, it came from the grassy area down this way," and that was the last I said to him.

Mr. BELIN. All right. When he said "this way" which direction was he pointing?

Mrs. REID. Well, I hope I get my directions. In the direction of the parade was going, in the bottom of that direction

[Gil Jesus]

No. YOU'RE not being honest about his statements.

Of course he is being honest, he has produced a fact ( Shown Below ) that you simply don't like.

No, he simply picks and chooses what he wants to believe. I've noticed that you LNers like to do that. You can have a witness who says the same thing 15 times, but if he says something different just once, you choose to believe the once and ignore the other 15.

In your world, I guess that passes for honesty.

For anybody who is interested, look at this 1988 video of Newman:

Edited December 21, 2011 by Gil Jesus

[David Von Pein]

The fact still remains that "directly behind" Newman was NOT the picket fence area. Why pretend it was?

[Pat Speer]

No. YOU'RE not being honest about his statements.

Of course he is being honest, he has produced a fact ( Shown Below ) that you simply don't like.

No, he simply picks and chooses what he wants to believe. I've noticed that you LNers like to do that. You can have a witness who says the same thing 15 times, but if he says something different just once, you choose to believe the once and ignore the other 15.

In your world, I guess that passes for honesty.

For anybody who is interested, look at this 1988 video of Newman:

Gil, Newman is, undoubtedly, a conspiracy witness. He saw no impact on the back of the head even though he was looking right at it. In recent years, moreover, he has taken to describing the first two shots as bang bang, far too fast to have been fired by Oswald.

He is not, however, a picket fence witness. There is a lot of confusion regarding what constitutes the grassy knoll. Many current CTs think it means the steps, the fence and west of the steps and fence. The original descriptions and witnesses, however, make clear that the grassy knoll included the grassy area in front of the pergola, where Newman and his family were standing. Newman, from day one, has said he thought the shots came from behind him. As he developed this impression based on the shot at 313, when he was facing the street with his back to the pergola, this precludes a shot from the picket fence, which was to his right, as well as a shot from the sniper's nest, to his left.

P.S. Newman pointed out where he thought the shots came from in Jesse Ventura's program, and it was right behind him, 30 feet or more to the east of the picket fence. The program's producers, however, quickly inserted a picture of the picket fence. As if things weren't confusing enough...

[David Von Pein]

Newman is, undoubtedly, a conspiracy witness.

No, he isn't. Why are you pretending he is, Pat?

He heard TWO shots. And the place he said the shots came from is a place where it's fairly obvious no shots came from.

And somehow that makes Newman a "conspiracy" witness? That's ridiculous.

Edited December 22, 2011 by David Von Pein

[Pat Speer]

No. YOU'RE not being honest about his statements.

Of course he is being honest, he has produced a fact ( Shown Below ) that you simply don't like.

No, he simply picks and chooses what he wants to believe. I've noticed that you LNers like to do that. You can have a witness who says the same thing 15 times, but if he says something different just once, you choose to believe the once and ignore the other 15.

In your world, I guess that passes for honesty.

For anybody who is interested, look at this 1988 video of Newman:

Firstly, I'm not a LNer.

I believe that someone else may just have been involved or maybe knew that Oswald was going to attempt the assassination, but I have no proof, that's why I class myself as a CT.

You have zero proof about anything that proves Oswald's innocent. If you or anyone else did, it would be front page news all over the world.

Calling me a LN is just an idiotic piece of defeatism, put forward by you when unimpeachable facts are shown to you.

You still prefer the A knew B, B knew C, so C must have know A lunacy route method of coming to a conclusion which you then anounce to the world as hard evidential fact.

Secondly, In your video, Newman states that he thought the shots came "TOWARDS" the grassy knoll, NOT "FROM" the grassy knoll.

You do know the difference between to and from. don't you?

Look at Newman in the Moorman photograph. Behind him is the direction of the TSBD, that's the fact of the matter. No amount of ducking, diving, diversification or weak false accusations will ever change this simple fact. Live with it.

Duncan, your image is misleading. When one looks at Newman's position on an overhead view, one can see that the sniper's nest was behind him and sharply to his left, and that "directly behind" Newman was the pergola, where he marked the exhibit in the mock trial. You're not trying to spin him into a TSBD witness, are you? Because that would be even worse than spinning him into being a picket fence witness...

[Pat Speer]

Newman is, undoubtedly, a conspiracy witness.

No, he isn't. Why are you pretending he is, Pat?

He heard TWO shots. And the place he said the shots came from is a place where it's fairly obvious no shots came from.

And somehow that makes Newman a "conspiracy" witness? That's ridiculous.

I'm not pretending, David. He is a conspiracy witness. Possibly the best witness. 1) He thought he'd only heard two shots because two of the shots were so close together he initially thought they were one shot. His wife later convinced him it was the first two shots that were bang bang, when the other witnesses make it clear it was actually shots two and three. 2) He saw NO impact on the back of Kennedy's head at 313, even though he was looking right at it. Now, few realize this, because very few, including the esteemed members of the HSCA FPP, have ever done the homework, but bullets that break up on the back of a head make a quite noticeable impact. Newman's failure to see such an impact on the back of the head is a clear indication the bullet impacted right where he said it did, based on his observation--by the temple. His appraisal, furthermore, was confirmed by Dr. Clark, the first doctor to carefully examine the wound, who repeatedly stated he'd thought the large wound purported to be an exit was a wound of both entrance and exit.

Now, I know you're gonna jump to the LN fall-back position--that Newman must not have heard the first shot. But he most certainly did. When you read through the statements of those claiming to have heard three shots, and cull it down to those looking at Kennedy at the moment of the first of these three, it's absolutely 100% clear there was no first shot miss, as pushed by the likes of Posner, Myers, and Holland.

That the first shot heard by most hit Kennedy is, in fact, the single clearest piece of evidence in the entire case.

Here is just a sample. From chapter 5 at patspeer.com:

Remote Viewers--those noting the impact of the shots from buildings looking down on Dealey Plaza (all listed witnesses heard three shots unless otherwise noted):

Ruth Smith (12-21-63 FBI interview, CD206 p.9) “She looked back toward President Kennedy’s car after the first shot and thinks he raised his hands to his face.”

Lillian Mooneyham (1-10-64 FBI report, 24H531) “Mrs. Mooneyham heard a gunshot and observed President Kennedy slump to the left of the seat of his car."

Cecil Ault (1-10-64 FBI report, 24H534) “Following the first shot Mr. Ault noted that President Kennedy appeared to raise up in his seat.”

Dr. Samuel Paternostro (1-20-64 FBI report, 24H536) “He said he estimated several seconds, possibly four or five more, elapsed between the first report and the second and third reports. He said he observed President John F. Kennedy when he appeared to grab his head and thought at the time he is “well-trained;” then, when the other reports followed in quick succession, he realized that the President had been shot.”

Harold Norman (3-24-64 testimony before the Warren Commission, 3H186-198) "I can’t remember what the exact time was but I know I heard a shot, and then after I heard a shot, well, it seems as though the President, you know, slumped or something."

James Jarman (11-24-63 FBI report, CD5 p334-335) “He said that he heard a shot and then saw President Kennedy move his right hand up to his head."

So, we're just beginning and the score is already 6-0. All these witnesses heard three shots and all of them believed Kennedy responded to the first shot.

Eastsiders--those noting the impact of the shots from a location in the Plaza to the east of the limousine:

TE Moore (1-10-64 FBI report, 24H534) “By the time President Kennedy had reached the Thornton Freeway sign, a shot was fired and Mr. Moore observed the President slump forward in the Presidential car."

Mrs. Ruby Henderson (12-6-63 FBI report, 24H524) “at the time the motorcade passed where she was standing, she heard what she initially thought was a firecracker, and saw what she thought was paper fly out of the Presidential car. She said she now realized it was a shot she heard and what she thought was paper was probably flesh." (If so, she thought the first of the four shots she heard was the head shot. This seems highly unlikely, in light of all the other statements. It seems probable then that she was mistaken on this point.)

Welcome Eugene Barnett (7-23-64 testimony before the Warren Commission, 7H539-544) “I was looking at the President when the first shot was fired, and I thought I saw him slump down, but I am not sure, and I didn’t look any more then. I thought he was ducking down."

Pierce Allman (11-22-63 eyewitness report on WFAA radio, between 1:45 and 2:00 PM CST) “Right after Mr. Kennedy passed in front of me I heard one big explosion and my immediate thought like most of the people standing around me was “this is firecrackers, but it’s in pretty poor taste”. I looked and saw the president, I thought, duck. Evidently, he was slumping at the time."

Phil Willis (7-22-64 testimony before the Warren Commission, 7H492-497) "When I took slide No. 4, the President was smiling and waving and looking straight ahead, and Mrs. Kennedy was likewise smiling and facing more to my side of the street. When the first shot was fired, her head seemed to just snap in that direction, and he more or less faced the other side of the street and slumped forward.”

Linda Willis (7-22-64 testimony before the Warren Commission, 7H498-499) (When asked if she heard shots) “Yes; I heard one. Then there was a little bit of time, and then there were two real fast bullets together. When the first one hit, well, the President turned from waving to the people, and he grabbed his throat, and he kind of slumped forward."

Patricia Lawrence (11-24-63 FBI Report, 22H841): “When the motorcade passed she stated she was looking at Mrs. Kennedy who was looking to the other side of the car. The President was looking in her direction and she had waved. She heard the shot fired as the president was waving." (The president was not waving at frame 160 of the Zapruder film--the moment of the purported first shot miss--but was waving by frame 180, a second or so later. Still, as she does not specifically say the president stopped waving after the shot, it's difficult to say for sure that she is describing a first shot hit.)

Mary Sue Dickerson (Article by Beverly Shay in the 11-01-11 online edition of Now Magazine) “As she was making eye contact with the president of the United States, several things occurred at once. She heard what she thought were fire crackers, which initially seemed so celebratory, but then he slumped forward."

Mary Woodward (11-23-63 newspaper article Witness From the News Describes Assassination written by Woodward for the Dallas Morning News) "After acknowledging our cheers, he [JFK] faced forward again and suddenly there was a horrible, ear-splitting noise coming from behind us and a little to the right. My first reaction, and also my friends', was that as a joke someone had backfired their car...I don't believe anyone was hit with the first bullet. The President and Mrs. Kennedy turned and looked around, as if they, too, didn't believe the noise was really coming from a gun." (Kennedy, of course, does not turn and look around after frame 160, but resumes waving. What Woodward called "turning" then is almost certainly a reaction to the first shot's impact.)

Jean Newman (11-22-63 statement to the Dallas Sheriff’s Department, 19H489, 24H218) "The motorcade had just passed me when I heard something that I thought was a firecracker at first, and the President had just passed me, because after he had just passed, there was a loud report, it just scared me, and I noticed that the President jumped, he sort of ducked his head down, and I thought at the time that it probably scared him too, just like it did me, because he flinched like he jumped. I saw him put his elbows like this, with his hands on his chest." (Only heard two shots.)

June Dishong (Letter written on 11-22-63, as read by her daughter on CNN, 11-21-2003, and featured on the Sixth Floor Museum website) “here come the president and his wife…His arm in the air waving…He drops his arm as they go by, possibly 20 feet. Suddenly--a sound. Gun shots? So hard to tell above the clamor of the crowd. The president bent forward into his wife’s lap as his arm slipped off the side of the car."

While we can't rightly count Mrs. Henderson, Ms. Lawrence or Ms. Newman as first shot hit witnesses, the statements of the other 8 witnesses definitely support that Kennedy was hit by the first shot. This makes the score 14-0.

[David Von Pein]

Newman based his guess of the shooting location only on the sound of the third shot.

That's not true at all, Duncan.

Bill Newman based his opinion about the location of the head shot much more on what he SAW vs. what he HEARD. And he says that exact thing in this 2003 interview (fast forward to 6:15):

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/GayleN

Edited December 22, 2011 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

Ten-Four, Dunc.

[Gil Jesus]

It's called a Hobson's Choice Greg.

BTW, I understand Simkin let him on under strict rules that he could not use abusive language.

I guess calling me "Deranged" does not qualify as abusive around here anymore.

That's mild. You should see what he calls you and me on his blog:

"Yeah, Gary. Gil Jesus is a certifiable kook when it comes to anything about the JFK case--just like DiEugenio The Great."

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/04/jim-garrison-and-oliver-stone.html

TALK ABOUT LIBELLOUS

[Gil Jesus]

Repetitive post deleted

Edited December 28, 2011 by Gil Jesus