Bringing JFK assassination truth to the mainstream/ fingering the "Tools" when you see them

[Len Colby]

So do you really think Stich is credible? Why didn’t the guy make copies of the supposed tapes. My didn’t McDonald do anything with them? Very convenient to claim to have given them to someone long since dead.

Those are good points. Rodney Stich, however, is extremely credible. Stich was an FAA whistleblower. Stich, in his 90's now, has become a clearinghouse for whisteblowers in intelligence, FBI, CIA, DEA. They go to him when the operation goes bad and "they" become the target.

Here is Rodney Stich's classic "Defrauding America:" http://www.amazon.com/Defrauding-America-Encyclopedia-Operations-Agencies/dp/0932438091/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1332559138&sr=1-2

That does not mean everything these folk say to Stich is the truth. But I guarantee you there are a lot of golden nuggets in there that are just too radioactively true to make it into the mainstream media.

As for Trenton Parker, a Pegasus counterintellingence agent - I think he is telling the truth. Someone like Larry McDonald, who hated the Rockefellers, would be a natural to give those tapes to. Lyndon Johnson, GHW Bush, and Allen Dulles were both very tight with the Rockefellers, especially Nelson in the case of LBJ and Allen Dulles. I really think Nelson Rockefeller was involved in the JFK assassination, not just Texas oil men H.L. Hunt and Clint Murchison, who I think it is a lead pipe cinch they were involved. And of course, Hoover, being so close to LBJ. He knew it was coming and knew what to do: cover it up!

Yeah he gave McDonald the tapes but didn't make any copies and only said this after the guy was dead, how gullible can you be?

There are some folks in JFK research who just don't have *any clue* how plugged in Lyndon Johnson was to CIA/military. LBJ was one of a handful of senators/congressmen in the early 1950's that was nourishing the CIA and supervising congressional oversight of it. I don't mean thirty people - I mean about 5: Sen. Russell of GA. Sen. Leverett Saltonstall of MA, LBJ of Texas, perhaps a few others.

LBJ's mentor was Richard Russell, head of the Senate Armed Services Committee. LBJ was also on a key subcommitte of Appropriations that dealt specifically with military funding and "black money" for CIA/intelligence. That is the money being put into operations/programs that only a few in Congress know what it is.

Lyndon Johnson was very, very deep CIA and had close ties with Dulles brothers and the core of CIA and military. Lyndon Johnson in the 1950's for a long time controlled the pursestrings on CIA/military. And the Vietnam War was like a gold rush for that group and outside military contractors. Don't let me forget the space program, the mother of all military pork barrel and LBJ's advocacy for that.

Back to Trenton Parker: he could be right. But it does sound fishy that these tapes were lost forever with McDonald; surely someone would have made copies. But Trenton Parker sure does have a solid roll call or the perpetrators of the JFK assassination.

GHW Bush was the guy who said he forgot where he was on 11/22/63; somewhere down in Texas he guessed years later. God yes, he is a perp! George Herbert Walker Bush was one of the CIA guys making it happen for LBJ and the oil men (of which he was one).

A few years after Trenton Parker, came along Chip Tatum, yet another CIA Pegasus counterintelligence agent who had a credible story of assassinations (apparently his forte) and CIA drug smuggling.

Here is Chip Tatum's story: http://whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/MENA/TATUM/tatum.html

Tatum is a xxxx with zero credibility, among other discrepancies he claimed he was reporting to CIA “Director” William J. Colby (Bush's "successor") from the mid-80’s till his resignation in 1992, he is a convicted fraudster and was arrested in FL during the period his supporters claim he was missing.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=18784

[Guest Robert Morrow]

So do you really think Stich is credible? Why didn’t the guy make copies of the supposed tapes. My didn’t McDonald do anything with them? Very convenient to claim to have given them to someone long since dead.

Those are good points. Rodney Stich, however, is extremely credible. Stich was an FAA whistleblower. Stich, in his 90's now, has become a clearinghouse for whisteblowers in intelligence, FBI, CIA, DEA. They go to him when the operation goes bad and "they" become the target.

Here is Rodney Stich's classic "Defrauding America:" http://www.amazon.com/Defrauding-America-Encyclopedia-Operations-Agencies/dp/0932438091/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1332559138&sr=1-2

That does not mean everything these folk say to Stich is the truth. But I guarantee you there are a lot of golden nuggets in there that are just too radioactively true to make it into the mainstream media.

As for Trenton Parker, a Pegasus counterintellingence agent - I think he is telling the truth. Someone like Larry McDonald, who hated the Rockefellers, would be a natural to give those tapes to. Lyndon Johnson, GHW Bush, and Allen Dulles were both very tight with the Rockefellers, especially Nelson in the case of LBJ and Allen Dulles. I really think Nelson Rockefeller was involved in the JFK assassination, not just Texas oil men H.L. Hunt and Clint Murchison, who I think it is a lead pipe cinch they were involved. And of course, Hoover, being so close to LBJ. He knew it was coming and knew what to do: cover it up!

Yeah he gave McDonald the tapes but didn't make any copies and only said this after the guy was dead, how gullible can you be?

There are some folks in JFK research who just don't have *any clue* how plugged in Lyndon Johnson was to CIA/military. LBJ was one of a handful of senators/congressmen in the early 1950's that was nourishing the CIA and supervising congressional oversight of it. I don't mean thirty people - I mean about 5: Sen. Russell of GA. Sen. Leverett Saltonstall of MA, LBJ of Texas, perhaps a few others.

LBJ's mentor was Richard Russell, head of the Senate Armed Services Committee. LBJ was also on a key subcommitte of Appropriations that dealt specifically with military funding and "black money" for CIA/intelligence. That is the money being put into operations/programs that only a few in Congress know what it is.

Lyndon Johnson was very, very deep CIA and had close ties with Dulles brothers and the core of CIA and military. Lyndon Johnson in the 1950's for a long time controlled the pursestrings on CIA/military. And the Vietnam War was like a gold rush for that group and outside military contractors. Don't let me forget the space program, the mother of all military pork barrel and LBJ's advocacy for that.

Back to Trenton Parker: he could be right. But it does sound fishy that these tapes were lost forever with McDonald; surely someone would have made copies. But Trenton Parker sure does have a solid roll call or the perpetrators of the JFK assassination.

GHW Bush was the guy who said he forgot where he was on 11/22/63; somewhere down in Texas he guessed years later. God yes, he is a perp! George Herbert Walker Bush was one of the CIA guys making it happen for LBJ and the oil men (of which he was one).

A few years after Trenton Parker, came along Chip Tatum, yet another CIA Pegasus counterintelligence agent who had a credible story of assassinations (apparently his forte) and CIA drug smuggling.

Here is Chip Tatum's story: http://whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/MENA/TATUM/tatum.html

Tatum is a xxxx with zero credibility, among other discrepancies he claimed he was reporting to CIA “Director” William J. Colby (Bush's "successor") from the mid-80’s till his resignation in 1992, he is a convicted fraudster and was arrested in FL during the period his supporters claim he was missing.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=18784

I think Tatum is extremely credible and one of the most important intelligence operatives to come public in decades. When Tatum was first arrested he was charged with "treason." Then the government later selectively prosecuted (persecuted) him with fraud. God knows how much criminal fraud Oliver North, the Bushes and the Clintons were doing in the 1980's.

The case is very similar to Terry Reed who Oliver North told him to "lose" his airplane so it could be used by the CIA for covert operations. Then Reed was later charged with insurance fraud by the government as a way of discrediting him. Buddy Young, Bill Clinton's top thug, who Clinton later made #2 at FEMA, was a key player in the selective prosecution of Terry Reed for insurance fraud.

Buddy Young was up to his ears in 1980's CIA drug smuggling.

That is exactly the same "selective prosecution" trick that the government used on Chip Tatum. Just because someone has been *convicted* of fraud does not mean they did not work for the CIA. I bet a lot of those intelligence operatives are committing a felony a day.

[Dawn Meredith]

....After analysis, what evidence have these two men produced to advance their case? Bush smiling during a speech about Ford is not evidence. The Parrot story is not evidence, since it can be shown that Baker cooked the facts. Knowing the Baron is not evidence since the Baron knew Bush's buddy Mr. Hooker and had been in the oil business with him. Trento is not evidence since that guy is still selling Angleton's version of Oswald killing JFK for the KGB, a fact Baker does not tell his readers. If you think this stuff will break us through on the MSM, you are deluded. It will get us thrashed.

I am all for new evidence when it is actually new, and sound. I am not for a flavor of the month deliberate twist so I can be in with the likes of an irresponsible money grubbing demagogue like Alex Jones. Maybe that is what you are about--obviously its what Morrow is about. For me, this is just multipyling what went wrong with America in 1963. It fits people's wish fulfillment to place their own political and pyschic imprint over what should be treated as a murder case. Unearthing it allows the political angles to emerge from the elements of the plot. Not impasted from without by one's own agenda. Like a guy smiling in talking about the joke the Warren Commission was.

This all says more about you than it does this case.

You do yourself a disservice, Jim, because much of what you've said seems well argued, but then you go and spoil it with your absolutist, dismissive stance toward some sources. Torbitt contains some unique details, but you are not willing to concede even that, so out goes the baby with the bathwater; all or nothing.

You're simplistic dismissal of evidence implicating Bush is boiled down to. "alright, he was acquainted with the baron, so what?" I'm not going to again go through the list of Bush related "coincidences" you didn't mention or debunk, because you have demonstrated that you actually are not as you described.:

"I am all for new evidence when it is actually new, and sound."

Your annoyance at Russ Baker (you were unable to use his first name) seems as much about your own inability to address some of his gems as it is about Baker's shortcomings. Instead of giving a scholarly, or any kind of thoughtful response to one of several of Baker's observations; what were the relationships and roles of William B. Macomber, Jr., Thomas J. Devine, and Macomber's brother, John, with the Bush family and with each other, and, for example, with the CIA? Isn't it just a bit curious that William Macomber was both the best man of Bush's sister and of Devine, and that Macomber was asking Otepka about Oswald and the rest of the tiny number of defectors in late 1960, and that Devine himself was exposed as emerging from more than a decade long officially described divorce from CIA, to meeting with "the baron" and Clemard Charles in May, 1963, and reporting on the meeting to the CIA over a "secure line" under cover of a cryptonym? There is so much more, and if you were true to your self description, you might show curiousity concerning Hooker's daughter's marriage to Ames Braga, her second marriage to John Macomber's protege, Michael Ainslie, Byfield's sister-in-law's marriage to Braga's father's first cousin, Byfield's OSS relationship with William Macomber and William Casey, Byfield's realtionship with William HG Fitzgerald, Fitzgerald's usher, OW Hammonds being an oil depletion allowance expert and the accountant of Arabian Shield Corp. and partner of Jack Crichton, Fitzgerald's son marrying Robert G. Stone, Jr.'s daughter and Tom Devine being a director of Stone's Stonetex Corp., Stone using the Harvard endowment to fund Quasha's bailout of GW Bush, Stone's brother, David being the trustee of the CIA "student" funds run by Paul F. Hellmuth, Hellmuth being Dr. Tom Dooley's lawyer and pimp, and exposed as setting up at least two CIA proprietary Corps., and Robert G. Stone's reward, as Baker pointed out, a seat on RS Reynolds's private board, along with Jonathan Bush. I pointed out that Reynold's father was given an engagement dinner by Frank Vanderlip, Jr., and that Vanderlip, Jr. happened to be Bill Quasha's daughter, Jill's godfather. Macomber, Jr. was retired from State/CIA after collaborating on Nixon whitehouse smear of Ellsberg and on Hunt's faked cable, re: Diem assassination, and put into the presidency of the Met. Museum or art, home of a board of directors intertwined (Houghton and Plimpton) in the identical CIA front financing in which Paul Hellmuth and David Stone had been implicated.

Jim, you show almost total incuriousity to new research, Baker's, mine, and almost all others. By the way, Robert G. Stone's brother-in-law was "Mr. Bell Helicopter", Godfrey A. Rockefeller, and Byfield had so many relations to persons of interest in this research, even putting aside that his mother leased Glen Ora to JFK and his widow married Robert S. McNamara right at the time when McNamara was getting publicly weepy and quite loud, that your miniaturized dismissal of the Bush evidence tends to make you appear, by your own way of thinking, as someone who might not have the agenda you exhibit on the surface.

Again, more very good questions geing raised. And ignored. I wish you well with your book Jim, and I agree that these forums are way too time consuming for those of us with jobs and other pursuits, but when you get some time...I would like to hear your take on Poppy Bush. I asked you just one question that I will repeat: Do you believe his testimony (under oath) that he had no CIA ties prior to Ford appointing him head of the freaking CIA? I remain perplexed. Do you also believe that JFK Jr was NOT murdered?

Again Don J, great post.

Dawn

[Dawn Meredith]

Don,

As I have said before, pity the country that has to choose between Alex Jones and the Washington Post. There is something in between.

Besides Ventura and Jones exactly what is "in between"? Jones and Ventura are NOT op mockingbird. Or not lefties who won't touch these matters, as much as I love Rachel Maddow, for example, she won't go near this stuff.

[Guest Robert Morrow]

Alex Jones and Jess Ventura are both people who understand that the JFK assassination was a coup d'etat. And they both point the finger at Lyndon Johnson and George Herbert Walker Bush in various ways.

Russ Baker wrote an excellent book, but he did leave some things out. For one he left out George Herbert Walker Bush and his lifelong homosexual pedophilia. See the books the Franklin Cover Up and the Franklin Scandal by Nick Bryant for that.

And Russ Baker also left out the blockbuster revelations of Chip Tatum and GHW Bush's willingness to kill or terrorize Ross Perot in 1992.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/MENA/TATUM/tatum.html

I think Baker also left out the murder of Barry Seal, which I think the Bushes and Oliver North arranged. Seal was killed in Baton Rouge in Feb., 1986.

Mess with the Bushes and this happens!: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cb/BarrySealdead.jpg

[Guest Robert Morrow]

Now Dawn, got that?

If Baker had included Barry Seal, the Franklin Scandal, and Chip Tatum then he would have had a masterpiece.

If he only knew.

Barry Seal was murdered because he was going to talk about Bush/Clinton/CIA/Oliver North drug running in the 1980's.

I think the Bushes and Oliver North used Columbians to murder Seal. I earlier incorrectly stated that Barry Seal had been murdered in New Orleans. Actually, it was in Baton Rouge on Feb. 19, 1986.

Here is the best wiki can do on Barry Seal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Seal

[Dawn Meredith]

Caddy and Morrow, Chip Tatum and Worthington.

What a start for the fiftieth.

Sad that you lump Tatum here. Some incredible research has been done on him.

Do you think JFK jr was a victim of murder or his own negligence?

[Dawn Meredith]

Now Dawn, got that?

If Baker had included Barry Seal, the Franklin Scandal, and Chip Tatum then he would have had a masterpiece.

If he only knew.

I don't understand this post. I get your sarcasm but are you also saying that

you don't buy into anything connected to Barry Seal? Or the Franklin cover-up?

Obviously not Tatum.....

And so it goes...

Dawn

On a different note there is a move on facebook to try to get as many as possible to unite for the 50th and get JFKU read by as many as possible.

Far better way to spend one's time than to argue this any further.

[Guest Tom Scully]

Dawn, I'm able to present verifiable info such as Bush's sister's wedding usher, John Chaffee being the college roommate of Charles Whitehouse and the longtime friend of the best man in that same wedding, William B. Macomber, Jr. and that Tom Devine was an usher in the 1955 wedding of CIA's Albert Carter, along with CIA's Andre Rheault, who was also an usher in Charles Whitehouse's 1950's wedding and the brother of U.S. Special Forces commander, Vietnam in 1969, Robert Rheault and that Macomber was Devine's best man.

None of the above, undisputed details has much influence in prodding Jim to improve his overall opinion of Russ Baker's foundational research leading to discovery of the above outlined "coincidences".

What can you post, related to Franklin or to the death of Seal, that approaches the quality of the support I can post of everything in my first paragraph. If you can present no support of comparable quality, why even post any mention of Franklin depravity or Seal murder? I try to contradict the approach Robert Morrow has chosen by presenting only what I can support; no undisclosed sources, rumor, or other lame assertion, because I see how well it has worked for Mr. Morrow, not very well.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Tom Scully

[Len Colby]

I think Tatum is extremely credible and one of the most important intelligence operatives to come public in decades. When Tatum was first arrested he was charged with "treason." Then the government later selectively prosecuted (persecuted) him with fraud. God knows how much criminal fraud Oliver North, the Bushes and the Clintons were doing in the 1980's.

The case is very similar to Terry Reed who Oliver North told him to "lose" his airplane so it could be used by the CIA for covert operations. Then Reed was later charged with insurance fraud by the government as a way of discrediting him. Buddy Young, Bill Clinton's top thug, who Clinton later made #2 at FEMA, was a key player in the selective prosecution of Terry Reed for insurance fraud.

Buddy Young was up to his ears in 1980's CIA drug smuggling.

That is exactly the same "selective prosecution" trick that the government used on Chip Tatum. Just because someone has been *convicted* of fraud does not mean they did not work for the CIA. I bet a lot of those intelligence operatives are committing a felony a day.

Let’s not be absurd, Tatum claimed to have been reporting to CIA “Director” Colby up to 16 years after the latter was forced out by Ford. He also produced an obviously forged signed order on White House letterhead from Bush Sr. telling him to kill Ross Perot. As for his fraud conviction the best one could say is he was “selectively prosecuted” because even in their Tatum and his wife admitted to most of the facts charged by the gov’t. Other discrepancies were discussed on the linked thread.

[Guest Robert Morrow]

I think Tatum is extremely credible and one of the most important intelligence operatives to come public in decades. When Tatum was first arrested he was charged with "treason." Then the government later selectively prosecuted (persecuted) him with fraud. God knows how much criminal fraud Oliver North, the Bushes and the Clintons were doing in the 1980's.

The case is very similar to Terry Reed who Oliver North told him to "lose" his airplane so it could be used by the CIA for covert operations. Then Reed was later charged with insurance fraud by the government as a way of discrediting him. Buddy Young, Bill Clinton's top thug, who Clinton later made #2 at FEMA, was a key player in the selective prosecution of Terry Reed for insurance fraud.

Buddy Young was up to his ears in 1980's CIA drug smuggling.

That is exactly the same "selective prosecution" trick that the government used on Chip Tatum. Just because someone has been *convicted* of fraud does not mean they did not work for the CIA. I bet a lot of those intelligence operatives are committing a felony a day.

Let’s not be absurd, Tatum claimed to have been reporting to CIA “Director” Colby up to 16 years after the latter was forced out by Ford. He also produced an obviously forged signed order on White House letterhead from Bush Sr. telling him to kill Ross Perot. As for his fraud conviction the best one could say is he was “selectively prosecuted” because even in their Tatum and his wife admitted to most of the facts charged by the gov’t. Other discrepancies were discussed on the linked thread.

Let's you not be absurd. In many ways the CIA is like the mafia. You never leave the mafia. You never leave the CIA. And if you try leaving a street gang or a prison gang it causes huge problems.

The reason for that is when a group of people have been committing a slew of outrageous crimes from assassinations, illegal gun running, financial fraud, narcotics traffficking ... the liability for these crimes NEVER goes away. And then there is the matter of continuing operations where the person trying to leave said group is a threat simply because of the knowledge he holds.

Chip Tatum was quite an accomplished assassin, but he drew the line at murdering or terrifying Ross Perot. Maybe he would kill an Israeli agent, maybe he would murder a Honduran general, but he was not going to murder a prominent American.

So Chip Tatum was indeed reporting to William Colby long after William Colby had been forced out because he was revealing just a tad too much of the CIA's family jewels or dirty laundry. GHW Bush was brought in to staunch the flow and especially to cover up for the JFK assassination which was still a hot topic with the HSCA going on. Tatum was still reporting to Colby decades later because it was Colby who debriefed him coming out of Vietnam.

GHW Bush was CIA a long time BEFORE he was CIA director. And Colby was CIA a long time AFTER he was CIA director.

Ross Perot quit the 1992 campaign in July because he was *literally* afraid of being assassinated by George Herbert Walker Bush. Perot, a billionaire who could self fund, was someone who could not be controlled. If elected, Perot could have appointed every US attorny in the USA, a la Bill Clinton, and it is certainly very possible the GHW Bush could have faced prosecution for any number of crimes committed. GHW Bush was terrified of Ross Perot and that is why Bush took such extreme measures.

An "internet" friend of mine, Jon Gentry, inteviewed Chip Tatum before Tatum went underground. Here is what Gentry has to say about Bush, Chip Tatum and Oliver North. Jon Gentry is responding to a Facebook friend of mine, Kensley. Gentry is referring to "this agent" Chip Tatum:

"Many people have reported on the activities of GHW Bush. In 1997, I interviewed one of Bush, Sr's top CIA agents who refused an unethical order and went AWOL, subsequently got charged with treason for refusing a direct order from the President. This guy had been one of Bill Colby's close group and actually retired when Bush became DCI, only to be dragged out of retirement by Bush. Long story. Interviewed him in 1997 and again in 1998, both times at the behest of a former head (SAIC) of the Los Angeles FBI. Real interesting stuff. But perhaps most interesting is that this agent made statements in the form of predictions, but they weren't predictions, per se. They were the culled intel from being in over a hundred eyes-only planning sessions with Bush. Stuff like the plan for a global governance, a New World Order; the bringing down of the American economy and the splitting of the currency into domestic and international, two separate systems to protect against hyper-inflation as the dollar dies in world currencies. Many other things. All these "predictions" came from meetings no later than early 1992 when he walked out. Our current maladies have been in the works that long.

And I'll throw this in just for Kensley. This agent participated in the hit on Olof Palme, Prime Minister of Sweden. The hit was ordered because of an unwise conversation Lt. Col. Oliver North had with Palme in reference to illegal firearms dealing. "Loose lips sink ships," was one of Bush, Sr's favorite axioms. In this case a foreign head of state died because of North's "loose lips." North has no idea how close he came to sharing the same fate. The agent had orders that if a handkerchief was not dropped after a conference with Gorbanifar, the entire room including North were to be eliminated. That was after another North gaff. But Bush's "loose lips" policy extended to those who could give testimony in congressional hearings, also. I believe an Israeli by the name of Amiram Nir got a subpoena. The agent I spoke of actually knew Nir, but he was not told whose plane it was he was ordered to bring down. Nir died in the crash and subsequent fire, another victim to Bush's "loose lips" policy. I don't know, but I am told that Amiram Nir had about the same public interest in Israel as JFK, Jr. had in America. Bush, Sr gave the order for Nir's elimination to cover his own trail. Bush proclaimed, "I was not in the loop," on Iran Contra. Yeah, right.

Kensley, how naive do you wish to remain? Bush headed the CIA before becoming Vice President. An international child kidnapping-trafficking organization with its hub in Washington, DC was being investigated by Customs, the DC Police and the FBI. The investigation into this horrific monstrous operation was shut down with notes that it was "a CIA internal matter." With the current internet snooping I don't recommend checking it out but the org was The Finders. Yes, it made the papers. Yes, there are Customs documents pertaining to their interrupted investigation. Let me assure you, Bush, Sr. IS in the loop."

[Pat Speer]

I think Tatum is extremely credible and one of the most important intelligence operatives to come public in decades. When Tatum was first arrested he was charged with "treason." Then the government later selectively prosecuted (persecuted) him with fraud. God knows how much criminal fraud Oliver North, the Bushes and the Clintons were doing in the 1980's.

The case is very similar to Terry Reed who Oliver North told him to "lose" his airplane so it could be used by the CIA for covert operations. Then Reed was later charged with insurance fraud by the government as a way of discrediting him. Buddy Young, Bill Clinton's top thug, who Clinton later made #2 at FEMA, was a key player in the selective prosecution of Terry Reed for insurance fraud.

Buddy Young was up to his ears in 1980's CIA drug smuggling.

That is exactly the same "selective prosecution" trick that the government used on Chip Tatum. Just because someone has been *convicted* of fraud does not mean they did not work for the CIA. I bet a lot of those intelligence operatives are committing a felony a day.

Let’s not be absurd, Tatum claimed to have been reporting to CIA “Director” Colby up to 16 years after the latter was forced out by Ford. He also produced an obviously forged signed order on White House letterhead from Bush Sr. telling him to kill Ross Perot. As for his fraud conviction the best one could say is he was “selectively prosecuted” because even in their Tatum and his wife admitted to most of the facts charged by the gov’t. Other discrepancies were discussed on the linked thread.

Let's you not be absurd. In many ways the CIA is like the mafia. You never leave the mafia. You never leave the CIA. And if you try leaving a street gang or a prison gang it causes huge problems.

The reason for that is when a group of people have been committing a slew of outrageous crimes from assassinations, illegal gun running, financial fraud, narcotics traffficking ... the liability for these crimes NEVER goes away. And then there is the matter of continuing operations where the person trying to leave said group is a threat simply because of the knowledge he holds.

Chip Tatum was quite an accomplished assassin, but he drew the line at murdering or terrifying Ross Perot. Maybe he would kill an Israeli agent, maybe he would murder a Honduran general, but he was not going to murder a prominent American.

So Chip Tatum was indeed reporting to William Colby long after William Colby had been forced out because he was revealing just a tad too much of the CIA's family jewels or dirty laundry. GHW Bush was brought in to staunch the flow and especially to cover up for the JFK assassination which was still a hot topic with the HSCA going on. Tatum was still reporting to Colby decades later because it was Colby who debriefed him coming out of Vietnam.

GHW Bush was CIA a long time BEFORE he was CIA director. And Colby was CIA a long time AFTER he was CIA director.

Ross Perot quit the 1992 campaign in July because he was *literally* afraid of being assassinated by George Herbert Walker Bush. Perot, a billionaire who could self fund, was someone who could not be controlled. If elected, Perot could have appointed every US attorny in the USA, a la Bill Clinton, and it is certainly very possible the GHW Bush could have faced prosecution for any number of crimes committed. GHW Bush was terrified of Ross Perot and that is why Bush took such extreme measures.

An "internet" friend of mine, Jon Gentry, inteviewed Chip Tatum before Tatum went underground. Here is what Gentry has to say about Bush, Chip Tatum and Oliver North. Jon Gentry is responding to a Facebook friend of mine, Kensley. Gentry is referring to "this agent" Chip Tatum:

"Many people have reported on the activities of GHW Bush. In 1997, I interviewed one of Bush, Sr's top CIA agents who refused an unethical order and went AWOL, subsequently got charged with treason for refusing a direct order from the President. This guy had been one of Bill Colby's close group and actually retired when Bush became DCI, only to be dragged out of retirement by Bush. Long story. Interviewed him in 1997 and again in 1998, both times at the behest of a former head (SAIC) of the Los Angeles FBI. Real interesting stuff. But perhaps most interesting is that this agent made statements in the form of predictions, but they weren't predictions, per se. They were the culled intel from being in over a hundred eyes-only planning sessions with Bush. Stuff like the plan for a global governance, a New World Order; the bringing down of the American economy and the splitting of the currency into domestic and international, two separate systems to protect against hyper-inflation as the dollar dies in world currencies. Many other things. All these "predictions" came from meetings no later than early 1992 when he walked out. Our current maladies have been in the works that long.

And I'll throw this in just for Kensley. This agent participated in the hit on Olof Palme, Prime Minister of Sweden. The hit was ordered because of an unwise conversation Lt. Col. Oliver North had with Palme in reference to illegal firearms dealing. "Loose lips sink ships," was one of Bush, Sr's favorite axioms. In this case a foreign head of state died because of North's "loose lips." North has no idea how close he came to sharing the same fate. The agent had orders that if a handkerchief was not dropped after a conference with Gorbanifar, the entire room including North were to be eliminated. That was after another North gaff. But Bush's "loose lips" policy extended to those who could give testimony in congressional hearings, also. I believe an Israeli by the name of Amiram Nir got a subpoena. The agent I spoke of actually knew Nir, but he was not told whose plane it was he was ordered to bring down. Nir died in the crash and subsequent fire, another victim to Bush's "loose lips" policy. I don't know, but I am told that Amiram Nir had about the same public interest in Israel as JFK, Jr. had in America. Bush, Sr gave the order for Nir's elimination to cover his own trail. Bush proclaimed, "I was not in the loop," on Iran Contra. Yeah, right.

Kensley, how naive do you wish to remain? Bush headed the CIA before becoming Vice President. An international child kidnapping-trafficking organization with its hub in Washington, DC was being investigated by Customs, the DC Police and the FBI. The investigation into this horrific monstrous operation was shut down with notes that it was "a CIA internal matter." With the current internet snooping I don't recommend checking it out but the org was The Finders. Yes, it made the papers. Yes, there are Customs documents pertaining to their interrupted investigation. Let me assure you, Bush, Sr. IS in the loop."

What silliness. Ross Perot did not quit the campaign in 92. He was on every ballot in every state and received almost 19% of the vote--enough to tip the election to Clinton. If Bush was gonna kill him he'd have done it a few weeks before the election--make it look like an accident--a plane crash, perhaps, or, even better--make it look like Iranian agents had killed him. That way everyone worried about the evils of the Muslim world would vote for Bush, and he'd win in a landslide.

But no, nothing happened. WHY? Could it be, just perhaps, that George Herbert Walker Bush is not the ruthless murderer some would like him to be?

Edited March 26, 2012 by Pat Speer

[Guest Tom Scully]

Robert Morrow, stop! You do not have free reign to destroy the integrity and reputation of this forum, try as you might. Do not post accusations you do not provide reasonable support for. I unapproved your post. Convince another moderator to make it visible again, or confine yourself to posting only what you actually support and cite your supporting sources, preferably with links to reputable web content.

[Richard Hocking]

....

What silliness. Ross Perot did not quit the campaign in 92. He was on every ballot in every state and received almost 19% of the vote--enough to tip the election to Clinton. If Bush was gonna kill him he'd have done it a few weeks before the election--make it look like an accident--a place crash, perhaps, or, even better--make it look like Iranian agents had killed him. That way everyone worried about the evils of the Muslim world would vote for Bush, and he'd win in a landslide.

But no, nothing happened. WHY? Could it be, just perhaps, that George Herbert Walker Bush is not the ruthless murderer some would like him to be?

Pat, regarding Ross Perot: Yes, he received votes during the 1992 election. But he did give a televised speech (that I personally saw) in which he withdrew as a candidate, citing "dirty tricks" that he felt were being planned for his daughter's wedding.

http://articles.latimes.com/1992-07-17/news/mn-3649_1_democratic-party

[Guest Robert Morrow]

"Perot's surprise announcement"

Perot did not quit because this billionaire who could hire security feared "dirty tricks" at his daughter's wedding. That is the BS cover excuse. Perot was up against something even he could not contain; a president willing to kill him.

Perot hated GHW Bush. They had a huge falling out in the 1980's, probably over CIA drug smuggling which Perot was completely aware of.

Note Gerald Posner did a hit piece book on Perot in 1996, "Citizen Perot" http://www.amazon.com/Citizen-Perot-Gerald-Posner/dp/0517193728/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1332765531&sr=1-1 That is because Perot was challenging CIA interests, particularly GHW Bush and the kind of illegal operations that the CIA was up to its ears in.

"When we started . . . there was a climate there where we could win outright," Perot asserted. But now, he said, "the Democratic Party has revitalized itself. They've done a brilliant job, in my opinion, in coming back."

Note Perot is practically telling everyone to vote Democratic... "revitalized" Democratic Party.

I know a volunteer for Ross Perot who lived and still lives in the Dallas area. She remembers speaking to his security about their concerns of a threat on his life. They did not mention Bush specifically, but they were very, very concerned at this time. And this was at a time Perot was very popular with the American people.

I personally was planning to vote for him and I do hold it against GHW Bush for willing to entertain murdering the candidate I was going to vote for.

Ross Perot later got back in the presidential race for ONE REASON ONLY ... to ELECT BILL CLINTON over Bush who he hated.

"Bush, vacationing in Wyoming, told a news conference that "a lot of people that supported Ross want to see the kinds of changes that I want to see. . . . We want their support.""