Mike Rago Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) And I would like to draw your attention to yet more suspicious behaviour.... Focus on what is occurring inside the red rectangle and what is beside the red arrow. You will see Charles entering the Pergola walkway inside the red rectangle and you will see his wife, Beatrice, lying in the grass next to the red arrow. Charles Hester has abandoned his wife , Beatrice, who is laying prone on the grass. Charles does not appear to be concerned about her in the least bit. He is heading toward the Pergola shelter. Zapruder is heading toward Beatrice and as we shall see in subsequent posts, it is he, not Charles, who follows her, at arms length , into the pergola shelter. I'll save everyone a lot of frustration and time. This is just more garbage from "Mike ( I found a giant in Dealey Plaza ) Rago" who perversely enjoys delaying posting yet another wacky theory, that the man in the walkway in the Bell fames is actually Zapruder, and not Charles Hester. Here is his theory, This is what he is leading up to. He claims that the man who I have marked as Charles Hester's is actually wearing a bow tie, and that the he is wearing a hat. Here is my ID. Mike claims that the guy above, and below, who I have marked correctly as Hester, is wearing a hat, has a bow tie, and is Abraham Zapruder. Duncan is not saving anyone any frustration and time. Duncan's interpretation, which I understand he has been pushing for some time, is wrong. Here is a link to a post in a different thread, on a different subject, where Duncan admits to fake's he has made to support one of his theories. Duncan: hi the small photo showing the officer behind the wall and whatever on the floor of such on the left, is not a known real photo, taken at the time is it?? it has been made by you or someone, in showing what you or they think happened, am i correct on this information ?? if so, then whomever has created that it is an altered phony photo for research, which, i have always been led to believe in the research is never allowed as it is creating disinformation.....i am not being mean here, but i do want to know for researchs sake, we only use what is real not what is created...or supposed.....thank you for the clarification ..take care..b Hi Bernice, yes, It's a fake which was made by myself to compliment and complete my hypothetical scenario.from way back in 2009. I believe that the theory originally came from someone at Lancer. I stated that the small photograph was a fake in a thread a few years ago, and I should also have stated it here too for those who are unaware that this theory is nothing new. Duncan http://educationforu...10 As I said, in subsequent posts I will show that the man who followed Beatrice Hester , at arms length, was Zapruder and not Charles Hester. Edited August 28, 2012 by Mike Rago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 In the .gif in post 18 that I alluded to - if my understanding of Charles Hester's movements is correct and true to the film I've seen, then that is Hester scurrying around the back of the pergola, and Zapruder going over to check Mrs. Hester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) I think we need to time stamp these images... The gif seems to imply that Abe just ran off and Hester moves away... yet Altgens 8 shows them together.. both the Hesters and Abe/Marilyn Is there enough time for Hester to jump up and start moving away while Sitzman veers off to the left? So I found this gif that I separated into frames to show that Altgens 8 must have been VERY SOON after Altgens 7... and BEFORE the color gif showing Zap going toward Mrs. H. and that Mr. Hester seems to get up and move away from Mrs Hester - the red arrows... It does appear from this image that there are a number of people in the WEST pergola looking into the RR yard and parking lot... Mike.. ALOT of people went to that area after the shots... The image you posted first also needs a time stamp... but obviously occurs well after the limo leaves the scene... Do you have any evidence/testimony that places movement in that area prior to the shots? Sitzman picks out the black couple to her right.. Could there be someone in there? - sure... but what is to accomplish from that location other than to see into the RR yard - AFTER the shots are fired - which is when the image you posted was exposed? DJ (edit note: in the gif it is plain to see the black image rise... I will put the gif in the next post...) Edited March 24, 2017 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) So just above that white wall we see someone rising from the ground... Compare this with the photos posted to see where poeple are positioned and you can start to get a better timeline Altgens 8 - each couple is together the color gif from Bell from Chris D comes later and I believe this gif shows Hester getting upand walking as we pick him up in Bell and Zap/Sitz are blocked by the sign and tree - but we can see they are not on the pedastal or moving off at this time... DJ Edited February 10, 2017 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rago Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) I estimate that altgens8 was taken about 12-15 seconds after Zapruder frame 313. ( About 12 -15seconds after the head shots) The image I posted first I estimate to be about 53 seconds after Zapruder frame 313. The station wagon in the image is the station wagon that was in front of Press Bus One. The Bell frames are between these two images. The last frame of the gif animation I estimate to be about 20 to 25 seconds after Zapruder frame 313. This is Towner 3. It was taken about 8 to 15 seconds after the previous frame. Press Bus One is just going under the underpass. This would be about 63 to 68 seconds after the head shots which began at Zapruder frame 313. The unidentified man is now on the Pergola steps. Edited August 28, 2012 by Mike Rago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) So the idea of something "sinister" occurring in the west pergola almost a minute AFTER the shots seems to completely disregard the number of people who went to that area after the limo left. What exactly do you find sinister about what appears to be a woman - possibly Sitzman and a couple of other people milling around the pergola? I'd also ask you to look at the BOND series of photos... Bond 4 shows a woman in a black coat moving toward the pergola with people already there... this is also within 60 seconds as the bus hasn't come by yet. No one has "ignored" the photo... and to push that assumption here is amazingly disrespectful to the years of research many of us have put into this case... You remind me of the four blind men all touching a different part of an elephant and proclaiming what they have in front of them without reservation... You are trying to tell us the image of a 1000 piece puzzle after only looking at 45 pieces... 40 of which are turned over and only show the cardboard back... but they do suggest a shape that might fit somewhere.. Mike... If you've come here for answers - and dude THIS IS THE PLACE FOR ANSWERS - if you'd just look, and read, and ask questions of probably the greatest collection of JFK researchers/authors available - you MAY get answers... insulting them is not going to cut it - no matter WHO you think you are compared to the people here. You don't have to ac ept their theories - but please know that in the process of investigating one area of this crime... ALL the areas seem to show up. . I read the threads here for 5 years before I felt I had something to contribute. I keep gigs and gigs of "data" on a flash drive so I can access the source material without going to look for it on line... and if I don't have it I go find it and save it for next time I'm all for believing in yourself and your conclusions - and defending them the best you know how... but when repeatedly asked for YOUR SUPPORTING EVIDENCE, offering a link to someone else's work is not what we mean... Pull out what you mean... highlight it so we know what you are referring to.... and develop a conclusion based on this evidence... as you have read, I too stick to my guns in the face of rebuttal... and I will admit I am wrong when shown. By your own estimates of the timeframe - do you now see how there is nothing sinister about the west pergola 1 minute after the shots.... But if you can prove that Emmett Hudson saw people in the pergola as he walked to the steps - cool (did you know that he walked right past there? do you know who I am referring to?) Or anyone else for that matter seeing anything "sinister" in that area prior to the shots.... Your shotgun approach is interesting but from 165 feet away and from the SE window... a shotgun aint gonna hit anything but air... If you took a scoped rifle instead.. and aimed at something... I bet even you will eventually hit something Peace DJ Edited May 23, 2017 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rago Posted August 29, 2012 Author Share Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) Mr. Josephs you do not understand what you are looking at. The woman in the black coat moving to the pergola is Beatrice Hester and I intend to discuss that in the near future. I answered your question in the previous post because I thought you wanted to know the timeline. Your diatribe directed against me does not follow from the information that I posted. Nothing you mentioned in your response shows that you understand it. Again, you used it as an opportunity to rail against me. When it comes to the Grassy Knoll you will never talk to anyone who knows more about what happened there than me. I am here to inform as well as be informed. I am astonished at how ill informed you are of what actually happened that day. All anyone has to do to know what happened that day is study the photographic record. However this is something that you will not do because you believe the photographic record is all faked. When I realized how many people here do not even believe the photographic record is real I was shocked. I am still in shock over that. I am telling the story as I see it as I interpret the photographic record. Ultimately all I am doing is trying to point out those places in the photographic record where one has to look to see what happened that day. Some of those places, and this is one of those places, my interpretation will come in conflict with some one else's interpretation. Edited August 29, 2012 by Mike Rago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James R Gordon Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 I estimate that altgens8 was taken about 12-15 seconds after Zapruder frame 313. ( About 12 -15seconds after the head shots) Mike, You have no idea what you are talking about. From Z 313 to the end of the film there is around 9.5 seconds of filming left. That means, taking your 15 second time, Zapruder has 6 seconds left. So you are saying it took Zapruder 6 seconds to get off the pedestal. Have you given any time allocation for the fact that he suffered from vertigo? I don't know the time stamp for Altgens 8 but it certainly not 6 seconds after Z 1313. James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rago Posted August 29, 2012 Author Share Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) So you are saying it took Zapruder 6 seconds to get off the pedestal. Have you given any time allocation for the fact that he suffered from vertigo? James. Yes I am saying that it took about 6 seconds. Zapruder and Sitzman jumped down from the abutment. That would be 15 seconds after Zapruder frame 313. Zapruder continued filmed after the shooting, which took less than 10 seconds. He and Sitzman jumped down and walked into the shelter of a nearby pergola as the Hesters crouched on the grass. Zapruder and Sitzman soon became separated. The above quote is not quite accurate because, it was Zapruder , not Charles who followed Beatrice into the Pergola shelter. Zapruder and Sitzman did not walk into the shelter together. http://www.jfk.org/g...film-chronology Edited August 29, 2012 by Mike Rago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Yes Mikey... we've ALL had enough of your self proclaimed expertise and your inablility to find your A$$ with both hands The Zfilm ends at z486... z486 - z313 = 173 frames / 18.3fps = 9.45 seconds... (divide by 16 and we get almost 11 seconds if we believe the B&H manual) AFTER 313 Zapruder was still filming... You are so far out of your league here Mikey it's comical. Crawl back under whatever random name generating rock you came from, whatever-your-name-is... cause there ain't NOBODY buying what you keep trying to sell here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) More Rago ( Charles Hester was actually Zapruder in a bow tie ) garbage This is the same crap that caused Jerry Dealey to Lock multiple threads behind you, when you were discussing this same topic on Lancer. causing you to go off the rails and instigate a verbal attack on Jerry ( Lancer Moderator ) . You were proved wrong on Lancer, and nothing has changed, you are still wrong. Wiegman Bell Timeline. The GIF below appears to show Beatrice Hester in the same kneeling position, in Wiegman and Bell Edited August 29, 2012 by Robin Unger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 As for the FBI report. It is just the FBI'S account of what the Hester's said, not a "signed sworn statement" from the Hesters. The Zapruder film proves the FBI DOCUMENT is incorrect. How could they be on the south side of Elm st, when they were sitting in front of the EAST pergola entrance. ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rago Posted August 29, 2012 Author Share Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) More Rago ( Charles Hester was actually Zapruder in a bow tie ) garbage This is the same crap that caused Jerry Dealey to Lock multiple threads behind you, when you were discussing this same topic on Lancer. causing you to go off the rails and instigate a verbal attack on Jerry ( Lancer Moderator ) . You were proved wrong on Lancer, and nothing has changed, you are still wrong. I was not proved wrong on Lancer and there is absolutely nothing in the frames that you have posted that shows that I am wrong here. Like at Lancer all you have shown is that Hester wore a long tie. Like at Lancer you did not show that Charles is the person following Beatrice into the Pergola shelter. And as before, you are trying to bully your way into your solution. Below is the Bell Frame that shows Hester walking toward the Pergola shelter. It also shows a figure inside the pergola shelter that you insist is Zapruder, but it is not. This frame was taken about 7 seconds after the Chris Davidson animation shown above. It shows Sitzman at approximately the same location as we see her in the last frame of that gif file. Zapruder is not inside the Pergola shelter, he is off camera to the right, where we see him in the same animation. Sitzman is looking in Zapruder's direction. This frame confirms there is a figure inside the pergola that Chris hypothesized in this previous edforum thread.... http://educationforu...=15#entry258884 In this frame Charles Hester is not following Beatrice Hester. Beatrice is still laying in the grass. Charles is the man in the long tie walking in the pergola walkway heading toward the shelter. Sitzman is looking in Zapruder's direction. Here is the last frame from Chris Davidson's gif. This frame was taken about 7 seconds before the above frame. Charles is inside the red rectangle, Beatrice is laying in the grass, Zapruder is headed toward Beatrice and Sitzman is headed toward the shelter. Regarding the Hesters FBI statements. We do not know if those statements are incorrect or not. Each of those statements were made in front of two FBI agents. And there are two statements. And in each statement it is clearly stated that they crossed from the south side of elm to the north side of elm to seek shelter. As your picture shows they were already next to shelter. It is suspicious. We know for a fact that Charles abandoned her and left her on the grass, so it does not look like he was trying to protect her. Edited August 29, 2012 by Mike Rago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) Quote: In this frame Charles Hester is not following Beatrice Hester. Beatrice is still laying in the grass. Charles is the man in the long tie walking in the pergola walkway heading toward the shelter So you have finally come to your senses, and admit that the man seen in the dark suit and tie in the pergola walkway is in fact Charles Hester. This is also the same man we see in Bond ( Charles Hester ) Also i don't believe Charles is seen walking in the Bell Frame. ? I think he was just standing there waiting for his wife, who eventually gets up of the ground, and then walks straight past him heading for the shelter. As seen in the Bond image below. ( Beatrice was probably pissed at Charles because he got up and left her alone ) Edited August 29, 2012 by Robin Unger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rago Posted August 29, 2012 Author Share Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) Quote: In this frame Charles Hester is not following Beatrice Hester. Beatrice is still laying in the grass. Charles is the man in the long tie walking in the pergola walkway heading toward the shelter So you have finally come to your senses, and admit that the man seen in the dark suit and tie in the pergola walkway is in fact Charles Hester. In that frame, yes , that is Charles and he is walking and Beatrice is nowhere to be seen. That frame was taken about 8 seconds before the Bond-4 picture shown below. The man in the Bond-4 photo is not wearing a long tie and he is wearing a hat and glasses. Enlargement of Bond-4 showing man following Beatrice, at arms length, is Zapruder. Edited August 29, 2012 by Mike Rago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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