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Tripple Underpass


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I post the following which will hopefully put us all on the same page (if not it will confuse us even more).

If I have understood things correctly, this is where the possible South Knoll shooter was positioned and where Tosh and Sergio were standing (roughly of course).

Am I close, Tosh?

James

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deleted for space

Edited by Tim Carroll
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Your photo corresponds to my understanding of what Tosh has said. Another view would be the following: (Tim Carroll)

Right. Good stuff.

I had a hunt around trying to find an image that would be close to the line of site for our proposed South Knoll shooter. I think this one below is roughly in the ballpark.

Interesting.

James

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Tim

I agree, these two diagrams show what Tosh Plumlee described witnessing.

Please read my Edited post above, under the underpass photos (aftermath crowd).

Jim. thanks for the photo from the south knoll point of view.

Triangulation, etc.

Shanet

Edited by Shanet Clark
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deleted for space

Edited by Tim Carroll
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The main problem I see with that South Knoll trajectory is that JFK was in the back seat. Shooting over the windshield but under the crossbar is a very narrow range. Otherwise, tracking the shot would be optimal from the South Knoll. (Tim Carroll)

Tim,

I take your points.

Until this thread, I had not even pondered that a shot would have come from this direction. I have never been to Dealey Plaza so I guess I'm talking through my hat, but if I were looking for positions to set up sniper teams, the indicated spots below (rough proximity) would be the best. Then again ...

Also one could add the TSBD sniper's perch even though that's probably not an ideal location but a necessary one.

James

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A picture is worth a thousand words. Here is the photo of the South Knoll. It would be helpful if Tosh could circle the precise location he's describing. I understand his estimation of the South Knoll shooter's location to be about 5 yards east of the underpass at the fence line. If that is not sufficiently precise, I hope Tosh will correct me, perhaps even with a circled location in the provided photo. Maybe when I'm there in a few weeks and taking a photo of the proposed South Knoll shooter's angle onto Elm St., I'll try out Tosh's audio experiment by yelling out "Bang bang bang" and have my wife tell me where the sound seemed to come from. For Dealey Plaza that probably wouldn't constitute strange behavior. . . .

--------------------------------

http://jfkmurdersolved.com/southknoll.htm

Wim

Edited by Wim Dankbaar
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deleted for space

Edited by Tim Carroll
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I post the following which will hopefully put us all on the same page (if not it will confuse us even more).

If I have understood things correctly, this is where the possible South Knoll shooter was positioned and where Tosh and Sergio were standing (roughly of course).

Am I close, Tosh?

James

Thanks James, that's what I was trying to accomplish. Forget my in-coming

e-mails since you've already taken care of it.

Ter B)

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The main problem I see with that South Knoll trajectory is that JFK was in the back seat.  Shooting over the windshield but under the crossbar is a very narrow range.  Otherwise, tracking the shot would be optimal from the South Knoll. (Tim Carroll)

Tim,

I take your points.

Until this thread, I had not even pondered that a shot would have come from this direction. I have never been to Dealey Plaza so I guess I'm talking through my hat, but if I were looking for positions to set up sniper teams, the indicated spots below (rough proximity) would be the best. Then again ...

Also one could add the TSBD sniper's perch even though that's probably not an ideal location but a necessary one.

James

James, Tim, and Shanet,

With the shooter situated on the South Knoll, as Tosh described, and with the line

of site you've drawn to the curve in Elm St. in front of Zapruder's pedestal, it sure

makes the case for "triangulation" all the more applicable.

Thanks,

Terry

Edited by Terry Mauro
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Bear in mind that Tosh does not know where the shooter was. He heard a shot and is estimating.

If you look at that last plaza photo that James posted, you have a clear view of how the overpass wall slants eastward at the south end. (It slants at both ends.) That's where weapons expert Al Carrier believes the south knoll shooter fired the fatal head shot. Al has been there, and says that a shooter at the wall where it slants would not be visible to the people who were standing at the north end over Elm. And it may be a better trajectory, rather than over at the parking lot fence, because of Jackie's closeness to JFK at the time of the head shot. It's more exposed, perhaps, but who was there to see him before he made his exit?

Check it out, Tim, when you get there.

Edited by Ron Ecker
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The main problem I see with that South Knoll trajectory is that JFK was in the back seat.  Shooting over the windshield but under the crossbar is a very narrow range.  Otherwise, tracking the shot would be optimal from the South Knoll. (Tim Carroll)

Tim,

I take your points.

Until this thread, I had not even pondered that a shot would have come from this direction. I have never been to Dealey Plaza so I guess I'm talking through my hat, but if I were looking for positions to set up sniper teams, the indicated spots below (rough proximity) would be the best. Then again ...

Also one could add the TSBD sniper's perch even though that's probably not an ideal location but a necessary one.

James

James,

I have not been able to get over one shooting location in particular.

Tim

Tim

These photos --

of the grassy knoll pergola fence position

-- are more detailed than the Moorman photo's ambiguous "Badgeman" image.

In the first image, with the limo still in position, he is head down and in firing position;

In the second image, (a little underexposed, compared with the first),

with the witnesses prone in front of him, he is now at ease,

with his head up, Tim these are two very important photos....

The individual here has had NRA or military training, good marksmanship form.

Firm sling pressure, you understand,

this is a photo of a marksman, with a rifle,

taking the shooting stance...

with the limo directly in front of him...............

Shanet

Edited by Shanet Clark
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Tim these are two very important photos....

The individual here has had NRA or military training, good marksmanship form.

Firm sling pressure, you understand,

this is a photo of a marksman, with a rifle,

taking the shooting stance...

with the limo directly in front of him...............

And he missed.

Given the size of this individual as we see him, he and the "vehicle" or whatever he's positioned on would have to be forward enough that Sitzman and others could see him. If this individual is further back, out of view along the side of the shelter, then he would have to be the size of Goliath.

This individual also remains stationary in the Nix film for some time after the shooting, which a real person shooting wouldn't do. He would be hauling it.

I also question whether a shooter would choose a position shooting from the side of the target, not only from the tracking standpoint but from the standpoint that he might wind up shooting Jackie's head off instead. A more frontal shot would be easier to track and hit only the intended target.

I have to agree with the experts who looked at this for the HSCA and concluded that this is a play of light and shadow and not a gunman positioned on a vehicle or something.

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Ron

He IS still in place for a long time...

John's photo file can help understand this thread.

the Aftermath photos, to me, show men in suits,

spread out, and calmly patrolling Dealey after the fact...

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKphotographs.htm

thats the location of the photo files of Dealey after the shootings---check it out

Shanet

Edited by Shanet Clark
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