Harvey and Lee: John Armstrong

[Greg Parker]

Germane to this debate about where Oswald was being treated is the question of what his duties were supposed to be during the period in question.

Can one of you Hardy and Laurel afficionados clue me in. What were Oswald's duties during the period 9/14/58 and 10/5/58 if he was still in Atsugi?

[Steven Gaal]

Can you provide a quote from that linked post? I can find nothing in it that states the clinic was in the East Camp.

And you haven't even attempted to answer in which camp Oswald was living. // PARKER QUESTION

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ANSWER GAAL

Information is from HARVEY and Lee main web page (said site you claim to be very, very familiar)

http://harveyandlee.net/Marines/Marines.html
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Harvey and Lee Site
I want to stress the importance of LEE Oswald's repeated visits to the Atsugi Station Hospital from September 16 through October 6.
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From September 14 through October 6 HARVEY Oswald was in Taiwan. At the same time, from September 16 through October 6, LEE Oswald was in Japan. Medical records for NAS Navy 3835 (Naval Hospital) show numerous medical entries for LEE Oswald recorded on Sept 16, 20, 22, 23, 29, and Oct 6.. HARVEY Oswald's assignment in Taiwan, while LEE Oswald made numerous visits to the Naval Hospital, is a very important "smoking gun."

below above statement in green at Harvey & Lee site is image of clinic records.

STAMPED EAST CAMP MACS-1
Sick call treatment records

with dates Sept 16, 20, 22, 23, 29, and Oct 6

##################################################

##################################################

And you haven't even attempted to answer in which camp Oswald was living. // PARKER QUESTION

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ANSWER GAAL >>>>> PLEASE RE READ POST # 315 I did answer which camp Oswald was living.

Edited May 30, 2015 by Steven Gaal

[Greg Parker]

Non responsive.

It is your claim that Oswald never left Atsugi and was being treated in a clinic there.

Since that is your claim, it is reasonable to expect you know in which camp Oswald was based and where the clinic was. If you know the answers, provide them. If you don't know, then simply admit you don't know. Pretty easy really. PARKER QUESTION

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ANSWER GAAL // CILINIC located EAST CAMP SECTION OF Atsugi, Japan MAIN BASE . NEVER SAID HE DIDNT LEAVE JAPAN, JUST THAT HE WASNT IN TAWAIN TILL at least SEPT 30th.

see http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19762&p=303951 POST # 229 this thread

TREATED IN JAPAN SEPT 16th officially on boat CONTRADICTION

TREATED IN JAPAN SEPT 20 officially on boat CONTRADICTION

TREATED IN JAPAN SEPT 22 officially on boat CONTRADICTION

TREATED IN JAPAN SEPT 23 officially on boat CONTRADICTION

TREATED IN JAPAN SEPT 29th officially on boat CONTRADICTION

TREATED IN JAPAN SEPT 30th officially arrived in Taiwan SEPT 30th CONTRADICTION

===================

It is possible that if he took a plane SEPT 30th and he could have been given medical treatment in Japan and Tawain. BUT records show he was treated in Japan SEP 30th.

000000000000000000000000000000000

Why would the sick bay of a ship have stamped EAST CAMP ?? ANSWER >>>>> IT WOULDNT. // gaal

Maybe hand written but not stamped . Stamping indicates origin of clinic papers is in Japan (and its not sick bay of a ship). Gaal

Okay, so according to you the clinic was in the East Camp...

Now fill in the blank for me Lee Harvey Oswald laid his little head down to sleep every night in.................................. at Atsugi.

[Steven Gaal]

Okay, so according to you the clinic was in the East Camp...

Now fill in the blank for me Lee Harvey Oswald laid his little head down to sleep every night in.................................. at Atsugi.// PARKER QUESTION

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(GAAL EDIT OF SITE )

BELOW FROM Harvey & Lee website

http://harveyandlee.net/Marines/Marines.html

In October, 1957 LEE Oswald was in the Marines and stationed at Atsugi, Japan. LEE was assigned a bunk on the first level of barracks #5, a large two-story wood frame building that housed 72 men. Zack Stout remembered the day that LEE Oswald arrived. He and Oswald became close friends and worked together on a daily basis for the next 10 months either in the radar bubble in Atsugi, the Philippines, Subic Bay, aboard ship, or while on liberty. Oswald slept on the upper bunk that he shared with Robert Augg, who slept on the lower bunk. A photo was taken of the tall, husky, well-built LEE Oswald by his friend George Wilkins shortly after he arrived in Japan. One of the marines who knew LEE Oswald during this time was Richard Bullock. Bullock remembered that "Ozzie" was not in the radar section, but was a radio communicator. Some of you may recall that Sergeant Donald Goodwyn, who knew LEE Oswald at Camp Pendleton, also remembered that the Oswald he knew was a radio communicator. Bullock knew LEE Oswald as "Ozzie" and said, "He was NOT the guy I saw in the picture on TV shot by Jack Ruby." Bullock looked at a color mug shot of Lee Harvey Oswald taken shortly after he was taken into custody by the police and said, "It looks nothing like him. That's not the man I knew. The man I knew was 30-40 pounds heavier and 3-4 inches taller than the man accused of killing President Kennedy." ......

On October 27, Richard Cyr was standing about 15 yards from the barracks and heard what sounded like a gunshot inside the building. Cyr and other marines ran into the barracks and found LEE Oswald sitting on his locker with a nickle-plated derringer laying nearby on the floor. Oswald, with little emotion, said "It seems as though I've shot myself." LEE Oswald was taken to the US Navy Hospital in nearby Yososuku where a navy surgeon closed his wound and allowed the slug, which lay just below he surface on the back side of Oswald's upper left arm, to remain in his arm. A week later the doctor made an incision on the back side of Oswald's arm, removed the slug, and closed the wound with stitches. The shooting resulted in 2 scars in LEE Oswald's left arm above his elbow. ....In November, LEE Oswald was on maneuvers in the Philippines and later aboard the USS Cayuga County en route to the island of Ishima. During the Christmas holidays of 1957 LEE Oswald was aboard the USS Terrell County in the south China Sea, ...

In early 1958 LEE Oswald was in the Philippines, later in Corregidor, and returned to Japan on March 18. On April 11, LEE Oswald was court-martialed and found guilty of possessing an unauthorized weapon. On June 20 he visited the Blue Bird Cafe in Yamato and, after a couple of drinks, spilled a drink on Technical Sergeant Miguel Rodriguez. A week later LEE Oswald was again court-martialed and charged with using provoking words to a Staff-Non-Commissioned Officer, for which he was convicted and confined to the brig for 28 days. LEE Oswald was released from the brig on August 13, 1958. A month later, beginning on September 16, he made many visits to the Atsugi Station Hospital where he was diagnosed with "urethrittis, acute." LEE Oswald visited the hospital on September 20th, 22nd, and 29th, and on October 4th and 6th. During this 3-week period he was examined 6 times for the same condition.

I want to stress the importance of LEE Oswald's repeated visits to the Atsugi Station Hospital from September 16 through October 6. ...HARVEY was beginning the process of assuming the identity of LEE Oswald, which began aboard the USS Skagit en route to Taiwan. Marine Corps Unit Diary 151-58 (744) shows that (HARVEY) Oswald departed with this unit en route to Taiwan on September 14. One member of this unit was William K. Trail, who accompanied HARVEY Oswald and later served with him at MACS 9 in Santa Ana, California. HARVEY Oswald arrived in Taiwan on September 30 and was soon observed by Lt. John Donovan taking photos of troop deployments, fighter aircraft, ammunition bunkers and F-86 aircraft. Lt. Donovan would later become HARVEY Oswald's immediate superior at MACS 9 in Santa Ana, CA. The thought occurred to me that Oswald may have been taking these photos in preparation for his upcoming "defection" to the Soviet Union. This may or may not have been the reason he took the photos, but after President Kennedy's assassination many of these photos, taken in Taiwan by HARVEY Oswald, were found among his possessions by the Dallas Police. On the evening of October 4, Lt. Charles Rhodes heard four or five rifle shots coming from the direction of the position that Oswald was guarding. Rhodes ran toward Oswald and found him slumped against a tree, shaking, and crying while holding his rifle. He kept saying that he just couldn't bear to be on guard duty. Rhodes reported the incident to his commanding officer and two days later Oswald was sent on an 800 mile trip back to Japan. Marine Corps Unit Diary 158-58 lists Oswald in Ping Tung, Taiwan on October 6....

Following his "defection" to the Soviet Union, HARVEY Oswald discussed his assignment in Taiwan with reporter Priscilla Johnson, who wrote news articles about Oswald and his "defection." A naval message of November 4, 1959 reported that Oswald served with Marine Air Control Squadrons in Taiwan. In 1964 The Warren Commission received a memorandum from the Assistant General Counsel for the Department of Defense that stated Oswald had been stationed in Ping Tung, Taiwan. From September 14 through October 6 HARVEY Oswald was in Taiwan. At the same time, from September 16 through October 6, LEE Oswald was in Japan. Medical records for NAS Navy 3835 (Naval Hospital) show numerous medical entries for LEE Oswald recorded on Sept 16, 20, 22, 23, 29, and Oct 6.. HARVEY Oswald's assignment in Taiwan, while LEE Oswald made numerous visits to the Naval Hospital, is a very important "smoking gun."

Following his return to Japan on October 6, 1958 HARVEY Oswald was temporarily assigned to a Marine Squadron at Iwakuni, a Marine air base 400 miles southwest of Tokyo. Owen Dejanovich, who first met HARVEY Oswald at radar school in Biloxi spent time with him at Iwakuni. Dejanovich thought that Oswald had grown bitter toward the Marines and recalled seeing him occasionally talking to a Eurasian girl. The following day, October 7, 1958, LEE Oswald was admitted to the Naval hospital in Atsugi and on October 10 he had a colon examination for rectal bleeding. LEE was discharged from the hospital on October 13, but returned on October 16th and 27th to have vaccinations that were required before returning to the US. In other words, while HARVEY was at Iwakuni, LEE was at the Naval hospital in Atsugi.

After HARVEY Oswald departed Iwakuni he returned to the United States and was assigned to the Marine Corps Air Facility--MACS 9--near the city of Santa Ana, California (HARVEY was always assigned to Sana Ana, CA; LEE was always assigned to El Toro, CA). HARVEY worked in a radar bubble with Sergeant Nelson Delgado, 5 enlisted men, and 3 officers. Sergeant Erwin Lewis remembered that Oswald transferred to MACS 9 in either October or November, 1958. Lewis said, "It was a matter of common knowledge that Oswald could read, write, and speak Russian. Marine Corps medical records confirm that HARVEY Oswald was at the Marine Corps Air Facility in Santa Ana, CA on October 29. But on October 29 LEE Oswald was still in Japan. Four days later, on November 2, LEE Oswald boarded the USS Barrett in Yokoska, Japan for a 13-day voyage to San Francisco. Marine corps medical records that show HARVEY Oswald was in California on October 29, 1958, while military records that show that LEE Oswald was in Japan and departed on November 2, 1958--an obvious "smoking gun."

October and November, 1958 was the end of HARVEY Oswald and LEE Oswald's activities in the far east. But after returning to the US, HARVEY Oswald was assigned to MACS 9 at Santa Ana, CA, assumed LEE Oswald's identity, and began promoting himself as a supporter of all things Russian. LEE Oswald was briefly assigned to El Toro and was soon discharged. I would like to point out that not a single one of Zack Stout's group of 10 marines, who bunked with LEE Oswald, worked with him, travelled with him, and went on leave with him for one year--the marines who knew the tall, husky LEE Oswald better than anyone--not one of them was ever interviewed by the FBI. When I told Zack that the Warren Commission concluded that Oswald learned to speak Russian in the far east he said, "That's ridiculous. I never saw or heard him study any foreign language in Japan or anywhere else. Most of the time we were either aboard ship or on maneuvers in the Philippines. He didn't have time to study any foreign language." The FBI's clear lack of interest in marines who knew LEE Oswald in Japan, and their failure to conduct interviews, points to a coverup. They simply avoided talking to marines who knew the tall, husky LEE Oswald in Japan. They focused their attention on the shorter, thin-framed HARVEY Oswald at Santa Ana, CA. It is worth mentioning that at Georgetown University, in their "special collections," were interviews of over 100 marines who knew LEE Oswald in Japan (by author Edward Epstein). But these records were not available to the public, and have recently disappeared.

[Greg Parker]

In October, 1957 LEE Oswald was in the Marines and stationed at Atsugi, Japan. LEE was assigned a bunk on the first level of barracks #5, a large two-story wood frame building that housed 72 men.

The above was all you needed to post to at least partly answer the question.

Now... was barracks #5 in the East Camp or the West Camp?

[Greg Parker]

chronology does not stop at entering Marines = PARKER needs correction // Gaal

Steve, for the love of God and all that is decent, round that kangaroo up.

Of course there was a Marines chronology. It just wasn't written by Ely.

Here again is what you posted.

Yes I see it obviously does show two Oswalds. The Warren Commission even in a memo shows that they have to make adjustment to military data.

see http://harveyandlee.net/Ely.htm In the memo Jenner speaks of the need for "material alteration' in the military record, this is LAWYER SPEAK for LIE.

Yes the Warren Commission record admits to .....FRAUD !!! So Parker basis his military data on .....F R A U... // Gaal

The only frauds here are you and your cohorts.

Or will you claim you just never bothered reading your link?

Let me type it out for you since you need spoon feeding.

The chronology Ely did was from "the fall of 1929 to the time Lee Harvey Oswald entered Military service in October, 1956, "

Since changes were only suggested for the chronology done be Ely - NO CHANGES WERE - OR COULD HAVE BEEN - SUGGESTED FOR ANY MILITARY RECORDS.

Got it now??? I hope so, cos I'm getting a bit tired of this BS from you and Josephs.

Well?

Still waiting for a response, Steve...? Anyone...?

Too hard?

Still waiting...

[Steven Gaal]

Quote Harvey And Lee site

In October, 1957 LEE Oswald was in the Marines and stationed at Atsugi, Japan. LEE was assigned a bunk on the first level of barracks #5, a large two-story wood frame building that housed 72 men.
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The above was all you needed to post to at least partly answer the question.

Now... was barracks #5 in the East Camp or the West Camp? // Parker Question

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In 1958 I don't know what area at Atsugi LEE bunked in.

AS for barracks # 5 I don't know. GAAL

[Greg Parker]

Quote Harvey And Lee site

In October, 1957 LEE Oswald was in the Marines and stationed at Atsugi, Japan. LEE was assigned a bunk on the first level of barracks #5, a large two-story wood frame building that housed 72 men.

]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]

The above was all you needed to post to at least partly answer the question.

Now... was barracks #5 in the East Camp or the West Camp? // Parker Question

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In 1958 I don't know what area at Atsugi LEE bunked in.

AS for barracks # 5 I don't know. GAAL

"All officers and air controllers, including Oswald, lived on the west or main side of the base". The Missing Chapter Lee Harvey Oswald in the Far East, p105

"Buses were used to transport personnel from the West to the East Camp and vice versa" p66

So you've got him hopping a bus to the East Camp clinic each time despite the probablility there was a clinic in the west camp since that was the main part of the base and was where the officers and intelligence units were.

But I'll put you out of your misery. There is something in those medical records that makes it very unlikely he was receiving those treatments at Atsugi.

If you can't work it out, it's okay. The answer will be forthcoming in vol 2 - hopefully available before the end of the year.

[Steven Gaal]

But I'll put you out of your misery. There is something in those medical records that makes it very unlikely he was receiving those treatments at Atsugi.

If you can't work it out, it's okay. The answer will be forthcoming in vol 2 - hopefully available before the end of the year.

==========================================

Could it be ...could it be that the USS Skagit was not a medical ship and didn't have AS THE RECORDS INDICATE "TO LAB FOR SMEAR" or "SMEAR and Culture", a lab for that bio-work ?? Thus Treatments were at Atsugi. Gaal

Edited May 30, 2015 by Steven Gaal

[Greg Parker]

But I'll put you out of your misery. There is something in those medical records that makes it very unlikely he was receiving those treatments at Atsugi.

If you can't work it out, it's okay. The answer will be forthcoming in vol 2 - hopefully available before the end of the year.

==========================================

Could it be ...could it be that the USS Skagit was not a medical ship and didn't have AS THE RECORDS INDICATE "TO LAB FOR SMEAR" or "SMEAR and Culture", a lab for that bio-work ?? Thus Treatments were at Atsugi. Gaal

It definitely wasn't a medical ship. Nor did it spend all that time (9/14 - 10/5) at sea.

[Steven Gaal]

Steven Gaal, on 30 May 2015 - 02:13 AM, said:

But I'll put you out of your misery. There is something in those medical records that makes it very unlikely he was receiving those treatments at Atsugi.

If you can't work it out, it's okay. The answer will be forthcoming in vol 2 - hopefully available before the end of the year.

==========================================

Could it be ...could it be that the USS Skagit was not a medical ship and didn't have AS THE RECORDS INDICATE "TO LAB FOR SMEAR" or "SMEAR and Culture", a lab for that bio-work ?? Thus Treatments were at Atsugi. Gaal

==================================================

It definitely wasn't a medical ship. Nor did it spend all that time (9/14 - 10/5) at sea.

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It would have to make ports of call to conform to LAB needs LHO STD. GAAL

Edited May 30, 2015 by Steven Gaal

[Greg Parker]

Steven Gaal, on 30 May 2015 - 02:13 AM, said:

But I'll put you out of your misery. There is something in those medical records that makes it very unlikely he was receiving those treatments at Atsugi.

If you can't work it out, it's okay. The answer will be forthcoming in vol 2 - hopefully available before the end of the year.

==========================================

Could it be ...could it be that the USS Skagit was not a medical ship and didn't have AS THE RECORDS INDICATE "TO LAB FOR SMEAR" or "SMEAR and Culture", a lab for that bio-work ?? Thus Treatments were at Atsugi. Gaal

==================================================

It definitely wasn't a medical ship. Nor did it spend all that time (9/14 - 10/5) at sea.

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It would have to make ports of call to conform to LAB needs LHO STD. GAAL

That's if the lab work couldn't be done on board. You're guessing again.

[James R Gordon]

I am sorry, but I have had to hide a number of posts that border on member baiting.

Hopefully that will end the matter.

James.

[Bernie Laverick]

I am sorry, but I have had to hide a number of posts that border on member baiting.

Hopefully that will end the matter.

James.

Bernie,

Sorry but I have hidden a number of your posts. You do not strictly breach the rules but what you have written could be construed - and has been by Steven Gaal - as an insult.

This is not a formal warning, but it would help if Steven is not wound up.

Thanks.

A message from the mods...

So, I've not breeched the rules, it isn't a 'formal' warning but you've hid some of my posts so as not to wind Steven up?.

James had you been paying attention to this thread earlier on you will see that I STRESSED I didn't want to get into a flame war with David who has been constantly baiting now for the last 15 pages. Many posts have highlighted that this was his intention all along as he had no answers to the questions asked. Once again he wins. And the forum loses.

Why does this forum CONSTANTLY give in to aggressive time wasters who anyone can see merely want to divert attention and get people's posts banned?

Well done David, you got out of that one. AGAIN!!!!!!!!

It's a pathetic joke.

Edited May 30, 2015 by Bernie Laverick

[Don Jeffries]

Bernie,

James Gordon has been more than patient with Greg Parker, and had in fact taken away David Josephs' posting privileges not that long ago. On the other hand, those in Parker's camp have been far more aggressive and offensive than David Josephs, Steven Gaal or Jim Hargrove. For instance, Mark Valenti told David bluntly, "F....You, David," and advised Greg Burnham, on another thread, to "Shove it up your a...." Thomas Graves was allowed to taunt all his opponents with childish nicknames.

And now, what will happen to Greg Parker, after he warned people not to click on the links Jim Hargrove posted on the Frankenstein picture thread? These were harmless, legitimate links, provided by Jim in order to further the debate. Maybe Greg'a computer is different from all others, and strangely susceptible to viruses that don't exist. The alternative is that Greg was falsely labeling Jm's links as dangerous, when clearly they weren't. Imagine how Greg would respond to someone saying that about any links that he provided. I can hear the demands for a public apology now. Maybe he'd even start one of those dramatic "countdowns" he tried to use once with me. Regardless, you will never see an apology from Greg on this or any other forum.

Greg Parker is the one doing the baiting here, not David or those who support him. He attempted to bait me at least twice since I promised myself that I'd ignore these threads (once by writing, "P.S., Hello, Don" for some inexplicable reason, and in another intimating that I was protecting David Josephs). Greg has also, of course, defamed the good name of deceased researcher Jack White, and declared, with only his opinion as "evidence," that he willfully forged the Oswald photo in question. And in my view, no one here outside of myself has really taken him to task for that. No matter what you think of Jack White, or what your suspicions may be, it is far more irresponsible than the most extreme "conspiracy theorist" ever dared to be to just accuse someone who can't defend himself of forgery.

We continue to see middle-aged men, on this forum and others, unable to express themselves without resorting to childish tactics, and pointing fingers at others with the timeless childhood claims of "But it's his fault! Why don't you do something to him?" The more time I spend on these forums, the more I realize how counterproductive they've become. Most of you simply enjoy engaging in these figurative food fights.