Harvey and Lee: John Armstrong

[David Josephs]

David Josephs,

In your estimation is it possible that there were H and L, substantially as described by John Armstrong, neither of whom was recruited by the CIA until at least adulthood, if ever?

When I checked into the JVB story and offered evidence it was easily shown that her evidence was inauthentic... he corroboration simply fell apart when looked at closely.

I don't believe that a 93.9% chance that tonsils DON'T regrow invallidates the claim that one Oswald had the operation while the other did not... but it's not 100%. Unfortunately for detractors the tonsilitis in the marines is not the end of the story.

The activities of the US investigatory bodies suggest they are trying to remove/alter/recreate information from Oswald's childhood between 1952 and 1956 from the record and from consideration. The evidence which is offered is fraught with contradiction and begs the question, WHY? Why does the FBI need to deal with 5-10 year old background info as if the case hinged upon it?

If the recruitment does not happen until adulthood... in the Marines for example... the conflicts in childhood were either created after the fact or were actually there at the time... again, given what I've seen the FBI create in the way of evidence - this option is not so far fetched and is once again reflected in the evidence.

Is the hiding as one person from these two individuals, somehow picked out to be involved with intelligence operations of the US, so beyond the pale or ability of the CIA, specifically Angleton's area, as to be impossible? I believe the evidence reveals that it is not and that the CIA in their war aginast the KGB and commies would do ANYTHING they could conceive of.

Who recuited who and who was a single, double or even triple agent is again, unproveable yet possibly knowable.

I wish I had a better answer for you Jon... it's akin to the rifle evidence... If Oswald never had that rifle - which many believe to be the case - then all the rifle evidence had to be created (including the BYPs) and is the reason we never see any other Kleins paperwork to confirm anything offered as standard operation procedure (which would easily show that a bigger rifle was shipped for the smaller one ordered - the FBI had the records in their possession). When we dig into the evidence we find it woefully inadequate and terribly inauthentic - yet accepted as a WCR conclusion.

It seems to me that it would take some pretty amazing planning and execution to get the Ruby crowd to all confirm that Ruby was with Lee throughout the summer of 63 while Harvey is in New Orleans... either they ALL are lying together - but for what end? or they are ALL telling the truth about Lee and Ruby... I have posted this evidence many, many times including the Doctor in the apartment next to Ruby who tells of Oswald coming to that door looking for Ruby when Harvey is in Irving.

If these people are in the know, why would they give this away? Which is why, in the face of all the investigation the FBI still claims that Ruby and Oswald did not know each other...

We don't know if all these are the same imposter or many men... just that the evidence continues to pile up showing that it is not possible for the evidence to be accurate, or even close as to where Oswald was and with whom.

Do we simply have to accept in the absence of all the other potential evidence that only OSWALD's records are so messed up and it's just the "way it is" ? If one is to believe this, one would expect the FBI to produce this incriminating evidence to further solidify the case against Oswald... yet not in one instance does the FBI show what SHOULD be, only what Oswald did and the claim that mistakes are made and his was the same standard operating procecures for all... then they ask that you trust them on this one...

============

It's like answering the simple question - Who killed JFK? There is no simple, reader's digest version. It's a very complicated puzzle. Same with H&L. Both issues have to deal with the FBI's influence on evidence and what is left for us to see. Those like John who have gone to the sources to learn the real story allow us to see a world the WCR et al kept hidden.

Also, at some point it needs to be said that John did not spend 10 years and self-publish expecting to make a single dime... he was very wealthy already - so one can only imagine the impetus to fight on other than what he told me... as he dug, the information was simply found (he'd spend 3 weeks at a time with a firend at the Archives pouring daily over the info). He in turn felt it necessary to compile these findings into a book which gave others the impetus to look deeper. That's all he ever cared about - prompting others to take it a step further.

I did that and found that what he uncovered is very revealing of what actually occurred as opposed to what the books tell us... I didn't cherry-pick one thing or another... I investigated all of it, subject by subject over a 2 year period and we still explore and learn...

If people want to believe it can be explained away as simply as Parker tries, fine. The arguments offered usually only come with theory and speculation... very little evidence...

If you;ve followed my work at all, you'd have to admit that evidence of H&L is not something that goes wanting... I post links, passages, conflicts and images...

What again do we get in rebuttal but lots of air, insults, nicknames, and very little else...

I tend to meet force with force, fire with fire... forum bullies hate it when those they attack are prepared to call them on their bluffs and look especially foolish posting opinions in response to evidence.

Take care Jon

DJ

[Steven Gaal]

Dear Steven Gaal,

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YOU ASKED A QUESTION:

QUESTION TOPIC:
Thursday, 5/28/2015 at 5:36 pm EST

QUESTION TEXT:
Was the designation NAS 3835 used for the Atsugi, Honshu, Japan Naval base used past the year 1955 ?? I am asking was said NAS 3835 base number used up to at least the year 1960 ? THANK YOU Steve Gaal

[Jim Hargrove]

NAS 3835 has for many years referred to Atsugi... including 1962.

Here's a link to an Ebay sale entitled "NAVY # 3835 ATSUGI, JAPAN 1962 Naval Cover 17008 Br NAS"

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NAVY-3835-ATSUGI-JAPAN-1962-Naval-Cover-17008-Br-NAS-/231094956196

It's an old 1962 envelope to the IRS to an ensign stationed at Atsugi.

[Greg Parker]

Dear Steven Gaal,

Thank you for contacting the National Archives and Records Administration.

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received by the National Archives on Thursday, 5/28/2015 at 5:36 pm EST.

We look forward to serving your needs as soon as possible.

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YOU ASKED A QUESTION:

QUESTION TOPIC:

Thursday, 5/28/2015 at 5:36 pm EST

QUESTION TEXT:

Was the designation NAS 3835 used for the Atsugi, Honshu, Japan Naval base used past the year 1955 ?? I am asking was said NAS 3835 base number used up to at least the year 1960 ? THANK YOU Steve Gaal

N. A. S. Navy 3835 ( = JAPAN )//Gaal post 290 in the "Two Oswald Phenomenon Explained" thread.

You were guessing. It is what you guys do until forced to actually pony up with evidence.

[Jim Hargrove]

Dear Steven Gaal,

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=======================================================================

YOU ASKED A QUESTION:

QUESTION TOPIC:

Thursday, 5/28/2015 at 5:36 pm EST

QUESTION TEXT:

Was the designation NAS 3835 used for the Atsugi, Honshu, Japan Naval base used past the year 1955 ?? I am asking was said NAS 3835 base number used up to at least the year 1960 ? THANK YOU Steve Gaal

N. A. S. Navy 3835 ( = JAPAN )//Gaal post 290 in the "Two Oswald Phenomenon Explained" thread.

You were guessing. It is what you guys do until forced to actually pony up with evidence.

EXCUSE ME???

Cancelled U.S. Postage on an envelope is legitimate evidence in every United States court of law I've ever seen...

NAS 3835 has for many years... including 1962... referred to Atsugi, Japan!!!

Here's a link to an Ebay sale entitled "NAVY # 3835 ATSUGI, JAPAN 1962 Naval Cover 17008 Br NAS"

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NAVY-3835-ATSUGI-JAPAN-1962-Naval-Cover-17008-Br-NAS-/231094956196

It's an old 1962 envelope to the IRS from an ensign stationed at Atsugi.

You've just got to work harder!

[Paul Trejo]

Well, David Josephs, I said it before, and I'll say it again: Bill Simpich's 2014 discovery of a high-level CIA Mole Hunt in the summer of 1963 in Mexico City on the subject of Lee Harvey Oswald, marks a new starting point for JFK Research. IMHO, nobody's opinion matters anymore until they give their opinion about Bill SImpich's scholarly discovery.

It's very interesting to me that you have personally worked with Bill SImpich, David, because IMHO his work is so central to the future of JFK Research.

What is your interpretation of the Simpich Mole Hunt, David?

Here are my follow-up remarks about that question:

(1) The Double-Oswald branch of the CIA-did-it JFK Conspiratorial writers seems to be the logical result of a consistent CIA-did-it hypothesis.

Y'all make more consistent use of more testimonial artifacts, and consistently find a CIA plot inside each and every one, than anybody. In fact, it sometimes seems that every CIA-did-it writer will eventually gravitate to your direction in the long run.

(2) The only alternative will then be to subordinate the CIA-did-it findings to some other Conspiracy -- perhaps a Civilian Conspiracy. Yet that may be just what the second half-century of JFK Research needs.

(3) IMHO, Bill Simpich's Mole Hunt can be easily interpreted to show that the CIA high-command was unaware of the Oswald Impersonation -- and therefore the CIA had no clue that Oswald was being set-up to be the Patsy for a Conspiracy.

(4) Finally, all this minutia about tonsils doesn't distract me in the slightest -- because what you're really fighting about is your primary operating principle, namely, that the CIA has to be to blame for every detail of the Mexico City episode of Lee Harvey Oswald. Prove me wrong?

But really, David, please answer my main question: what is your interpretation of the Simpich Mole Hunt?

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited May 29, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Jim Hargrove]

Well, David, I said it before, and yet I'll say it again: Bill Simpich's discovery of a high-level CIA Mole Hunt in 1963 marks a new starting point for JFK Research. Nobody's opinion matters anymore until they give their opinion about Bill SImpich's scholarly discovery.

--Paul Trejo

In his conclusion, Mr. Simpich also names several CIA agents as prime suspects in the assassination of JFK.

J...

Edited May 29, 2015 by Jim Hargrove

[Jim Hargrove]

Why don't any of you just tell the truth??

Why not talk about the death of JFK? Do you all care so little?????

Here's what I think....

============================== QUOTE ON =========================

EXCUSE ME???

Cancelled U.S. Postage on an envelope is legitimate evidence in every United States court of law I've ever seen...

NAS 3835 has for many years... including 1962... referred to Atsugi, Japan!!!

Here's a link to an Ebay sale entitled "NAVY # 3835 ATSUGI, JAPAN 1962 Naval Cover 17008 Br NAS"

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NAVY-3835-ATSUGI-JAPAN-1962-Naval-Cover-17008-Br-NAS-/231094956196

It's an old 1962 envelope to the IRS from an ensign stationed at Atsugi.

================== QUOTE OFF =================

To Greg Parker:

You've just got to work harder, boy!!

[Greg Parker]

Dear Steven Gaal,

Thank you for contacting the National Archives and Records Administration.

This message confirms that your inquiry (or inquiries) was

received by the National Archives on Thursday, 5/28/2015 at 5:36 pm EST.

We look forward to serving your needs as soon as possible.

Please do not reply to this email message. This message

was automatically generated by the Inquire Form on

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Please note that under certain circumstances, we may

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Thank you for your submission.

=======================================================================

YOU ASKED A QUESTION:

QUESTION TOPIC:

Thursday, 5/28/2015 at 5:36 pm EST

QUESTION TEXT:

Was the designation NAS 3835 used for the Atsugi, Honshu, Japan Naval base used past the year 1955 ?? I am asking was said NAS 3835 base number used up to at least the year 1960 ? THANK YOU Steve Gaal

N. A. S. Navy 3835 ( = JAPAN )//Gaal post 290 in the "Two Oswald Phenomenon Explained" thread.

You were guessing. It is what you guys do until forced to actually pony up with evidence.

EXCUSE ME???

Cancelled U.S. Postage on an envelope is legitimate evidence in every United States court of law I've ever seen...

NAS 3835 has for many years... including 1962... referred to Atsugi, Japan!!!

Here's a link to an Ebay sale entitled "NAVY # 3835 ATSUGI, JAPAN 1962 Naval Cover 17008 Br NAS"

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NAVY-3835-ATSUGI-JAPAN-1962-Naval-Cover-17008-Br-NAS-/231094956196

It's an old 1962 envelope to the IRS from an ensign stationed at Atsugi.

You've just got to work harder!

No. You have to support your claims.

Steve said in that other thread that 3835 was a code for JAPAN (as opposed to Atsugi). I'm pretty sure that both he and Josephs have previously tried to claim that "NAS 3835" was code for either "Atsugi Hospital" or "Japanese Hospital". Of course, it is neither. THEY WERE GUESSING and trying to pass off those GUESSES as certifiable facts.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Greg Parker

[Greg Parker]

chronology does not stop at entering Marines = PARKER needs correction // Gaal

Steve, for the love of God and all that is decent, round that kangaroo up.

Of course there was a Marines chronology. It just wasn't written by Ely.

Here again is what you posted.

Yes I see it obviously does show two Oswalds. The Warren Commission even in a memo shows that they have to make adjustment to military data.

see http://harveyandlee.net/Ely.htm In the memo Jenner speaks of the need for "material alteration' in the military record, this is LAWYER SPEAK for LIE.

Yes the Warren Commission record admits to .....FRAUD !!! So Parker basis his military data on .....F R A U... // Gaal

The only frauds here are you and your cohorts.

Or will you claim you just never bothered reading your link?

Let me type it out for you since you need spoon feeding.

The chronology Ely did was from "the fall of 1929 to the time Lee Harvey Oswald entered Military service in October, 1956, "

Since changes were only suggested for the chronology done be Ely - NO CHANGES WERE - OR COULD HAVE BEEN - SUGGESTED FOR ANY MILITARY RECORDS.

Got it now??? I hope so, cos I'm getting a bit tired of this BS from you and Josephs.

Well?

[Jim Hargrove]

No. You have to support your claims.

Steve said in that other thread that 3835 was a code for JAPAN (as opposed to Atsugi). I'm pretty sure that both he and Josephs have previously tried to claim that "NAS 3835" was code for either "Atsugi Hospital" or "Japanese Hospital". Of course, it is neither. THEY WERE GUESSING and trying to pass off those GUESSES as certifiable facts.

Well, boy, you've just GOT to quit shuckin' and duckin' and face the facts!

From September 14 through October 6, 1959, one "Lee Harvey Oswald" was in Taiwan, as shown by several Marine Corps Unit Diaries and other evidence. At the same time, from September 16 through October 6, 1959, another "Lee Harvey Oswald" was in Japan being treated for VD. Medical records for NAS Navy 3835--Atsugi, Japan-- show numerous medical entries for "Lee Harvey Oswald" recorded on Sept 16, 20, 22, 23, 29, and Oct 6. Anyone who wants to see the clear evidence for this can click RIGHT HERE!

I'm very, very disappointed by your efforts on this topic, Greg. You really need to work much harder!

[Greg Parker]

No. You have to support your claims.

Steve said in that other thread that 3835 was a code for JAPAN (as opposed to Atsugi). I'm pretty sure that both he and Josephs have previously tried to claim that "NAS 3835" was code for either "Atsugi Hospital" or "Japanese Hospital". Of course, it is neither. THEY WERE GUESSING and trying to pass off those GUESSES as certifiable facts.

Well, boy, you've just GOT to quit shuckin' and duckin' and face the facts!

From September 14 through October 6, 1959, one "Lee Harvey Oswald" was in Taiwan, as shown by several Marine Corps Unit Diaries and other evidence. At the same time, from September 16 through October 6, 1959, another "Lee Harvey Oswald" was in Japan being treated for VD. Medical records for NAS Navy 3835--Atsugi, Japan-- show numerous medical entries for "Lee Harvey Oswald" recorded on Sept 16, 20, 22, 23, 29, and Oct 6. Anyone who wants to see the clear evidence for this can click RIGHT HERE!

I'm very, very disappointed by your efforts on this topic, Greg. You really need to work much harder!

The facts are, you guys guessed what 3835 meant, had to be hounded to get evidence to support your guesses, and your guesses were wrong. 3835 was not a code for "Japan" or a hospital in Japan. It was the location of a Navy Base. It was where Oswald was based. It was a virtual "home address" - a common piece of information on medical records. Now if only you guys can pony up with the evidence that Oswald could not be treated on the Skagit for NON-VENEREAL gonnorhea, you'll be a step closer to proving your point.

Otherwise it looks like you're just guessing he couldn't or didn't.

Work harder? Not my job to prove YOUR case, Jim. Good luck!

Edited May 29, 2015 by Greg Parker

[Paul Trejo]

Well, David, I said it before, and yet I'll say it again: Bill Simpich's discovery of a high-level CIA Mole Hunt in 1963 marks a new starting point for JFK Research. Nobody's opinion matters anymore until they give their opinion about Bill SImpich's scholarly discovery.

--Paul Trejo

In his conclusion, Mr. Simpich also names several CIA agents as prime suspects in the assassination of JFK.

J...

Yes, Jim, you're right about that -- however, by skimming the CIA high-command away from the JFK plot, Bill Simpich accomplished a paradigm shift in JFK research.

Nobody has doubted that the CIA contributed various ROGUES to the JFK KIll Team. We have two who confessed, namely, David Morales and Howard Hunt.

However, in terms of CIA Officers, those are the only two who confessed. All the others in their orbit who confessed were MERCENARIES. I name here Frank Sturgis, Johnny Roselli, John Martino, Gerry Patrick Hemming, Jack S. Martin and David Ferrie, among others.

By skimming the CIA high-command away from the JFK murder, we have a new ball game. In light of the Simpich Mole Hunt, all this guesswork about Oswald's tonsils appears to be so much speculation.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited May 29, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

Edwin Walker was a closeted homosexual hillbilly with a military bloodlust and a grifter's jaundiced world view, If he hadn't put on a uniform he would have slid a preacher's collar around his neck so he could incite the rubes from the pulpit while he was getting his leaves raked by a handful of under-25 year old mouth breathers looking for a daddy they could believe in. He had neither the means nor the savvy to coordinate anything more complex than a Saturday night buggerfest.

Thanks, Mark, for chiming in about Walker. As one of the few advocates of the General-Edwin-Walker-did-it theory of the JFK murder, I cannot dispute the fact that Edwin Walker was a homosexual.

Yet it's purely speculative to imagine a scenario in which Walker "hadn't put on a uniform," since his father sent him to military school as a boy (because dad was afraid young Edwin might be gay).

From military school young Edwin went directly to West Point. So, from childhood to age fifty, Edwin Walker never left the military a day in his life. He served with distinction in WW2 and Korea, and rose to the rank of two-star General.

He would have been an ordinary US General, except that he joined the John Birch Society in 1959 (finally caving in to pressure from the radical right when he was in Little Rock, Arkansas, enforcing the Brown Decision at Little Rock High School 1957-1959).

The John Birch Society had begun by preaching that President Eisenhower was a Communist. They continued by preaching that JFK was a Communist. This is why JFK was killed -- because enough people believed that JFK was a Communist. No other reason.

So, despite the fact that Walker was gay, he still stands heads and shoulders above most other suspects in the JFK murder, IMHO, because of his actual history.

By contrast, the CIA-did-it theorists -- and especially the Double-Oswald theorists among them -- pile speculation upon speculation, grasping at tonsils.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited May 29, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Steven Gaal]

The facts are, you guys guessed what 3835 meant, had to be hounded to get evidence to support your guesses, and your guesses were wrong. 3835 was not a code for "Japan" or a hospital in Japan. It was the location of a Navy Base. It was where Oswald was based. It was a virtual "home address" - a common piece of information on medical records. Now if only you guys can pony up with the evidence that Oswald could not be treated on the Skagit for NON-VENEREAL gonnorhea, you'll be a step closer to proving your point.

Otherwise it looks like you're just guessing he couldn't or didn't.

Work harder? Not my job to prove YOUR case, Jim. Good luck! // Parker

----------------

At the Link provided by Mr. Hargrove are the clinic sheets which you claim are for the USS Skagit. You claim said clinic sheets are from the Skagit.

Well at the top of the sheet are the words EAST CAMP. What part of US Naval ship Skagit: port and bow, stern and starboard, is EAST CAMP ??? Never see Skagit name on these clinic sheets only NAS 3835 which is in Japan.// GAAL

see HARGROVE LINK http://harveyandlee.net/Marines/Marines.html

Edited May 29, 2015 by Steven Gaal