New Proof of JFK Film Fakery: "Conclusive Evidence", Experts Claim

[Mark Wengler]

Thanks Robin they look great

[John Dolva]

Just a word of caution. Using Costellas candy pop version is not a good fundament for this enquiry.

What ridiculous crap! The Costella "combined cut" is the best available

version. What would you recommend in its stead? The MPI version,

which (1) has reversed the order of frames 331 and 332; (2) does not

include (what ought to be) frames 341, 350, and 486; (3) does not include

frames 155 and 156; and also (4) does not include frames 208, 209, 210

and 211? Costella removes aspect ratio and pincushion distortion. So why

is John Dovla recommending the use of inferior versions of the film? Does

he know no better, in which case his incompetence is showing; or does he

know better but is asserting this falsehood in a deliberate effort to mislead?

http://assassination...ruderstable.mov

Why do people like John Dolva believe they can get away with such rubbish?

(Had to quote this for posterity)

Jim F. , did you ever end up asking Costella about his marbles?

edit typo

Edited March 2, 2013 by John Dolva

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

Quote:

Yet on the other side of the FAKE coin is Fetzer's declaration about Chaney....

I submit we have definitive proof that Chaney did not do what he said he did until much later... well after McIntyre.

God, this is embarrassing. One stooge after another endorses an OBVIOUSLY INDEFENSIBLE POSITION

in order to discount stunning proof that Zapruder has been altered. If I have harbored any hope that Robin

Unger was on the level, it's been destroyed. He is deliberately making false assertions, knowing they are

false, but making them anyway to deceive his forum audience . . . . This is about as disgusting as it gets.

Motorcycle police officer Chaney rode up to the lead car and spoke to Police Chief Jesse Curry.

James Chaney (motorcycle policeman, on the right rear fender of the Presidential limousine), November 22, 1963: “Then the, uh, second shot came, well then I looked back just in time to see the President struck in the face by the second bullet. He slumped forward into Mrs. Kennedy’s lap, and uh, it was apparent to me that we’re being fired upon. I went ahead of the President’s car to inform Chief Curry that the President had been hit. And then he instructed us over the air to take him to Parkland Hospital, and he had Parkland standing by. I went on up ahead of the—[lead car]—to notify the officer that was leading the escort that he [the President] had been hit and we’re going to have to move out.” [interview with Bill Lord of ABC News for WFAA-TV, as quoted in Trask, That Day in Dallas]

Bobby Hargis (motorcycle policeman on the left rear fender of the Presidential limousine), November 23, 1963: “The motorcycle officer on the right side of the car was Jim Chaney. He immediately went forward, and announced to the Chief that the President had been shot.” [Daily News report]

Forrest Sorrels (Secret Service agent, in the lead car in front of the Presidential limousine), November 28, 1963: “I noted that the President’s car had axcelerated [sic] its speed and was closing fast the gap between us. A motorcycle pulled up alongside of the car and Chief Curry yelled ‘Is anybody hurt?’, to which the officer replied in the affirmative, and Chief Curry immediately broadcast to surround the building. By that time we had gotten just about under the underpass when the President’s car pulled up alongside, and at that time Chief Curry’s car had started to pick up speed, and someone yelled to get to the nearest hospital, and Chief Curry broadcast for the hospital to be ready.” [statement: 21H548]

Winston Lawson (Secret Service agent, in the lead car ahead of the Presidential limousine), December 1, 1963: “A motorcycle escort officer pulled alongside our Lead Car and said the President had been shot. Chief Curry gave a signal over his radio for police to converge on the area of the incident.” [statement: CE772: 17H632]

James Chaney (motorcycle policeman, on the right rear fender of the Presidential limousine), from the testimony of Marrion Baker (Dallas Police Officer, on Houston Street when the shots started), March 25, 1964: “I talked to Jim Chaney, and he made the statement that the two shots hit Kennedy first and then the other one hit the Governor. (Mr. Belin: “Where was he?”) Mr. Baker: “He was on the right rear to the car or to the side, and then at that time the chief of police, he didn’t know anything about this [the shooting], and he [Chaney] moved up and told him [the chief], and then that was during the time that the Secret Service men were trying to get in the car ....” [Warren Commission testimony: 3H266]

Bobby Hargis (motorcycle policeman on the left rear fender of the Presidential limousine), April 8, 1964: “...when President Kennedy straightened back up in the car the bullet hit him in the head, the one that killed him and it seemed like his head exploded, and I was splattered with blood and brain, and kind of a bloody water. It wasn’t really blood. And at that time the Presidential car slowed down. I heard some one say, ‘Get going,’ or ‘get going,’——” (Mr. Stern: “Someone inside——”) Mr. Hargis: “I don’t know whether it was the Secret Service car, and I remembered seeing Officer Chaney. Chaney put his motor in first gear and accelerated up to the front to tell them to get everything out of the way, that he [the President] was coming through, and that is when the Presidential limousine shot off ....” [Warren Commission testimony: 6H294]

Chief Jesse Curry (in lead car, in front of the Presidential limousine), April 15, 1964: “I heard a sharp report. We were near the railroad yards at the time, and I didn’t know—I didn’t know exactly where this report came from, whether it was above us or where, but this was followed by two more reports, and at that time I looked in my rear view mirror and I saw some commotion in the President’s caravan and realized that probably something was wrong, and it seemed to be speeding up, and about this time a motorcycle officer, I believe it was Officer Chaney rode up beside us and I asked if something happened back there and he said, ‘Yes,’ and I said, ‘Has somebody been shot?’ And he said,‘I think so.’ ” [Warren Commission testimony: 12H28]

Winston Lawson (Secret Service agent, in the lead car ahead of the Presidential limousine), April 23, 1964: “... I recall noting a police officer pulled up in a motorcycle alongside of us, and mentioned that the President had been hit.” [Warren Commission testimony: 4

H353]

Forrest Sorrels (Secret Service agent, in the lead car in front of the Presidential limousine), May 7, 1964: “Within about 3 seconds, there were two more similar reports. And I said, ‘Let’s get out of here’ and looked back, all the way back, then, to where the President’s car was, and I saw some confusion, movement there, and the car just seemed to lurch forward.

And, in the meantime, a motorcycle officer had run up on the right-hand side and the chief yelled to him, ‘Anybody hurt?’ He said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘Lead us to the hospital.’ And the chief took his microphone and told them to alert the hospital, and said, ‘Surround the building.’ He didn’t say what building. He just said, ‘Surround the building.’ ” [Warren Commission testimony: 7H345]

What Happened on Elm Street? The Eyewitnesses Speak

ASSASSINATION RESEARCH / Vol. 5 No. 1 © Copyright 2007 John P. Costella

Edited March 2, 2013 by James H. Fetzer

[Craig Lamson]

I am stunned.

Lammy at least read part of the Zavada report.

Is that it for your "library"?

Seems so.

The "all knowing and intelligent" jimmy d once again proves he is neither.

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

David,

You are doing a great job of showing that Lamson is unreasonable, but

bear in mind that the shills will not even admit that Frame 374 proves by

itself that the film has been altered, when it makes it so very OBVIOUS:

q

Just a word of caution. Using Costellas candy pop version is not a good fundament for this enquiry.

Fair enough John... post a better source file if you have.

My point is that it is a "pop version" for the entire frame, not just JFK's head. Anything done to the entire frame should produce the same kinds of effects as we see over JFK's head.

I even posted Lammy's png-ginourmous version that shows quite plainly a SQUARE over JFK's head, not just some black on full contrast. Below.

Can you explain why the Square is so "square" in this one section of the frame and why he avoids posting any other section of that frame for comparison?

All I did was push the brightness and contrast... nothing else. Doesn't HIS black square give you any cause to be skeptical about that frame's original state?

If this effect occurs with every instance of that depth of color, SHOW IT... or am I being unfair in my request?

DJ

Edited March 2, 2013 by James H. Fetzer

[Craig Lamson]

David,

You are doing a great job of showing that Lamson is unreasonable, but

bear in mind that the shills will not even admit that Frame 374 proves by

itself that the film has been altered, when it makes it so very OBVIOUS:

q

Just a word of caution. Using Costellas candy pop version is not a good fundament for this enquiry.

Fair enough John... post a better source file if you have.

My point is that it is a "pop version" for the entire frame, not just JFK's head. Anything done to the entire frame should produce the same kinds of effects as we see over JFK's head.

I even posted Lammy's png-ginourmous version that shows quite plainly a SQUARE over JFK's head, not just some black on full contrast. Below.

Can you explain why the Square is so "square" in this one section of the frame and why he avoids posting any other section of that frame for comparison?

All I did was push the brightness and contrast... nothing else. Doesn't HIS black square give you any cause to be skeptical about that frame's original state?

If this effect occurs with every instance of that depth of color, SHOW IT... or am I being unfair in my request?

DJ

David is a clueless about how this stuff works as you are.

And of course your photo analysis of 374 is completely wrong as has been pointed out to you time and time again.

You are the shining example of unreasonable and clueless.

[Robin Unger]

Mr. Baker: “He was on the right rear to the car or to the side, and then at that time the chief of police, he didn’t know anything about this [the shooting], and he [Chaney] moved up and told him [the chief], and then that was during the time that the Secret Service men were trying to get in the car ....” [Warren Commission testimony: 3H266]

quote:

trying to get in the car !

looking at McIntire 2 it shows the secret service still standing on the running boards,

we then know that the Secret Service did not get into ANY car while near the overpass.

And we know that they did not get into the Queen Mary follow up car until they reach the top of the on ramp.

Volkland showing the Secret Service inside the car.

Edited March 3, 2013 by Robin Unger

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

Right, Lamson! There's something wrong with my analysis of Frame 374! That's why it corresponds so closely with the Crenshaw

diagrams, the McClelland diagram, the location by the witnesses, the Mantik X-ray studies and the mortician's description of the

wounds. That you seem to experience no shame from coming here making blatantly false claims on purpose in order to deceive

and mislead the more gullible members of this forum never ceases to amaze me. I find your performance completely grotesque.

Edited March 3, 2013 by James H. Fetzer

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

But I have to admit that Robin Unger, on this and other threads, is giving him a run for his money. One of the elementary fallacies I

spent 35 years teaching freshmen to avoid is known as "special pleading" by only citing the evidence favorable to your side and

ignoring the rest. That is Unger's move here, by citing a phrase that only makes sense if it is actually referring to Clint Hill climbing

on the back of the Lincoln limousine, pushing Jackie back in the seat, lying across their bodies and peering into the fist-sized hole

at the back of JFK's head. Who in the world does this guy think he is kidding? Read the reports highlighted in red. They leave no

doubt that this was taking place BEFORE THE LIMO HAD PASSED THE LEAD CAR. I am finding it increasingly embarrassing to

have to correct such blatant distortions, again and again. But that's Lamson and Unger's modus operandi. No one on this forum

should have any problem at this point in time in distinguishing between those two and others who are revealing truths about JFK.

Motorcycle police officer Chaney rode up to the lead car and spoke to Police Chief Jesse Curry.

James Chaney (motorcycle policeman, on the right rear fender of the Presidential limousine), November 22, 1963: “Then the, uh, second shot came, well then I looked back just in time to see the President struck in the face by the second bullet. He slumped forward into Mrs. Kennedy’s lap, and uh, it was apparent to me that we’re being fired upon. I went ahead of the President’s car to inform Chief Curry that the President had been hit. And then he instructed us over the air to take him to Parkland Hospital, and he had Parkland standing by. I went on up ahead of the—[lead car]—to notify the officer that was leading the escort that he [the President] had been hit and we’re going to have to move out.” [interview with Bill Lord of ABC News for WFAA-TV, as quoted in Trask, That Day in Dallas]

Bobby Hargis (motorcycle policeman on the left rear fender of the Presidential limousine), November 23, 1963: “The motorcycle officer on the right side of the car was Jim Chaney. He immediately went forward, and announced to the Chief that the President had been shot.” [Daily News report]

Forrest Sorrels (Secret Service agent, in the lead car in front of the Presidential limousine), November 28, 1963: “I noted that the President’s car had axcelerated [sic] its speed and was closing fast the gap between us. A motorcycle pulled up alongside of the car and Chief Curry yelled ‘Is anybody hurt?’, to which the officer replied in the affirmative, and Chief Curry immediately broadcast to surround the building. By that time we had gotten just about under the underpass when the President’s car pulled up alongside, and at that time Chief Curry’s car had started to pick up speed, and someone yelled to get to the nearest hospital, and Chief Curry broadcast for the hospital to be ready.” [statement: 21H548]

Winston Lawson (Secret Service agent, in the lead car ahead of the Presidential limousine), December 1, 1963: “A motorcycle escort officer pulled alongside our Lead Car and said the President had been shot. Chief Curry gave a signal over his radio for police to converge on the area of the incident.” [statement: CE772: 17H632]

James Chaney (motorcycle policeman, on the right rear fender of the Presidential limousine), from the testimony of Marrion Baker (Dallas Police Officer, on Houston Street when the shots started), March 25, 1964: “I talked to Jim Chaney, and he made the statement that the two shots hit Kennedy first and then the other one hit the Governor. (Mr. Belin: “Where was he?”) Mr. Baker: “He was on the right rear to the car or to the side, and then at that time the chief of police, he didn’t know anything about this [the shooting], and he [Chaney] moved up and told him [the chief], and then that was during the time that the Secret Service men were trying to get in the car ....” [Warren Commission testimony: 3H266]

Bobby Hargis (motorcycle policeman on the left rear fender of the Presidential limousine), April 8, 1964: “...when President Kennedy straightened back up in the car the bullet hit him in the head, the one that killed him and it seemed like his head exploded, and I was splattered with blood and brain, and kind of a bloody water. It wasn’t really blood. And at that time the Presidential car slowed down. I heard some one say, ‘Get going,’ or ‘get going,’——” (Mr. Stern: “Someone inside——”) Mr. Hargis: “I don’t know whether it was the Secret Service car, and I remembered seeing Officer Chaney. Chaney put his motor in first gear and accelerated up to the front to tell them to get everything out of the way, that he [the President] was coming through, and that is when the Presidential limousine shot off ....” [Warren Commission testimony: 6H294]

Chief Jesse Curry (in lead car, in front of the Presidential limousine), April 15, 1964: “I heard a sharp report. We were near the railroad yards at the time, and I didn’t know—I didn’t know exactly where this report came from, whether it was above us or where, but this was followed by two more reports, and at that time I looked in my rear view mirror and I saw some commotion in the President’s caravan and realized that probably something was wrong, and it seemed to be speeding up, and about this time a motorcycle officer, I believe it was Officer Chaney rode up beside us and I asked if something happened back there and he said, ‘Yes,’ and I said, ‘Has somebody been shot?’ And he said,‘I think so.’ ” [Warren Commission testimony: 12H28]

Winston Lawson (Secret Service agent, in the lead car ahead of the Presidential limousine), April 23, 1964: “... I recall noting a police officer pulled up in a motorcycle alongside of us, and mentioned that the President had been hit.” [Warren Commission testimony: 4

H353]

Forrest Sorrels (Secret Service agent, in the lead car in front of the Presidential limousine), May 7, 1964: “Within about 3 seconds, there were two more similar reports. And I said, ‘Let’s get out of here’ and looked back, all the way back, then, to where the President’s car was, and I saw some confusion, movement there, and the car just seemed to lurch forward.

And, in the meantime, a motorcycle officer had run up on the right-hand side and the chief yelled to him, ‘Anybody hurt?’ He said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘Lead us to the hospital.’ And the chief took his microphone and told them to alert the hospital, and said, ‘Surround the building.’ He didn’t say what building. He just said, ‘Surround the building.’ ” [Warren Commission testimony: 7H345]

What Happened on Elm Street? The Eyewitnesses Speak

ASSASSINATION RESEARCH / Vol. 5 No. 1 © Copyright 2007 John P. Costella

Edited March 3, 2013 by James H. Fetzer

[Robin Unger]

Jim you dismiss any and all of the photo's and film's, showing that at no stage before the on ramp, was Chaney seen next to Curry's car.

The fact that you do that shows that you are not an honest broker.

You will go to any lengths, in order to push your ALTERATION agenda, including calling any and all photographic evidence to the contrary as Bogus, Altered, Fake.

You will go to any lengths in your mission to prove ALTERATION to the Zapruder Film.

I don't dismiss witness testimony out of hand, i consider it more as a mistaken timing issue.

confusion by witness's, created due to the utter confusion and panic surrounding the few minutes immediately after the assassination.

Bell film showing the same time period, shows us people on the grass running for there lives in utter confusion.

regardless of what you say, the motorcyclists and secret service were not immune to this confusion surrounding the few minutes immediately after the assassination.

[Thomas Graves]

[...]

And we know that they [the Queen Mary's Secret Service agents] did not get into the Queen Mary follow up car until they reached the top of the on ramp.

[...]

Robin,

You know I'm on your side in the Z-film alteration "debate" but I don't understand what you're trying to say here. How could the Secret Service agents get into the Queen Mary when it reached the top of the on ramp if they hadn't been out of it?

Thanks,

--Tommy

Edited March 3, 2013 by Thomas Graves

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

We know that it's easy to alter photographs and films. In this case, even the X-rays and autopsy photos

were fabricated or faked. If we want to know what actually happened, we have to return to the witness

reports, which John Costella has collated in "What Happened on Elm Street? The Eyewitnesses Speak".

You are consistently relying upon the LESS RELIABLE EVIDENCE and discounting the MORE RELIABLE.

That is the sign of someone who is either an amateur at research or deliberately misleading the audience.

Your performance here leaves no doubt which is which when it comes to RobIn Unger. And the same is

the case for Craig Lamson. Time after time, you and he deliberately assert claims that are false and that

you know to be false, yet you assert them anyway in a deliberate attempt to deceive the more gullible

members of this forum. YOU HAVE BOTH BLOWN YOUR COVER. Neither of you has any credibility.

Edited March 3, 2013 by James H. Fetzer

[Thomas Graves]

[...]

God, this is embarrassing. One stooge after another endorses an OBVIOUSLY INDEFENSIBLE POSITION

in order to discount stunning proof that Zapruder has been altered. If I have harbored any hope that Robin

Unger was on the level, it's been destroyed. He is deliberately making false assertions, knowing they are

false, but making them anyway to deceive his forum audience . . . . (emphasis added by T. Graves)

[...]

Dear Dr. Fetzer,

It seems to me that you're calling Robin Unger a xxxx here.

I thought it was against Forum rules for one member to call another member a xxxx.

Sincerely,

--Tommy

Edited March 3, 2013 by Thomas Graves

[Robin Unger]

Quote:

That you seem to experience no shame from coming here making blatantly false claims on purpose in order to deceive

and mislead the more gullible members of this forum never ceases to amaze me.

To show how out of touch you are Jim, you don't even seem to realize, that this is actually the O.I.P and your Motus Operandi

When you hitched your wagon to the O.I.P it was a step too far.

Cinque is a known con man snake oil salesman, who has been caught out posting under at least 3- false names on various forums.

He sent me an ABUSIVE email, and when i posted it on Duncan's forum, he denied black and blue that he sent it to me, and said that someone must have hacked his hotmail account.

Then the SOB sent me this Email:

From: Dr. Ralph Cinque <doctorcinque@hotmail.com>

To: quaneeri2@yahoo.com

Sent: Tuesday, 16 October 2012 2:54 PM

Subject: Good Riddance!!

Unger you dumb pluck! I'm glad you won't be commenting on my thread anymore . Nice try in an attempt to incriminate me by posting my first email on the forum but nobody bought it. I'm a lot smarter than you and dont try posting this on the site too cos it will make you look even dumber trying to set me up.

You are a phoney, a fink and charlatan who doesn't know xxxx from shinola on photography. You are just scared i'm exposing the big lie.

kiss my ass and make sure you keep your promise of not coming back to my thread. you are just full of guano

As long as you support Cinque Jim, then you also are in the firing line.

Edited March 3, 2013 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

[...]

And we know that they [the Queen Mary's Secret Service agents] did not get into the Queen Mary follow up car until they reached the top of the on ramp.

[...]

Robin,

You know I'm on your side in the Z-film alteration "debate" but I don't understand what you're trying to say here. How could the Secret Service agents get into the Queen Mary when it reached the top of the on ramp if they hadn't been out of it?

Thanks,

--Tommy

Tommy

McIntire shows us the Agents still standing on the running boards. ( outside the car ) as it approaches the on ramp

it wasn't until they reached the top of the stemmons on ramp, that the follow up car could actually slow down enough,or possibly stop for a minute so that the Agents could then climb into the queen mary ( inside the car ) as we see in Volkland.

There is no way of knowing for certain what actually happened at the stemmons on ramp, as we don't have any photographic evidence showing this exact period of time.

Edited March 3, 2013 by Robin Unger