How about that, Steven Roy?

[Karl Kinaski]

Quote Facebook page Judyth Baker:

NEW EVIDENCE -- I TOLD THE TRUTH.
Have found new evidence of the old car I told researchers David Ferrie sometimes used in the spring and summer of 1963. Important because it afforded David Ferrie mobility and occasional transportation for Lee and me, information about his old car was so hard to find that "Ferrie expert" Stephen Roy told Education Forum, etc. that no such car existed and that I was lying.
And if i could lie about that, what about everything else? But I kept searching for the old car, and finally found evidence of an old car in Nov. 1962,
registered to "David Wm. Ferrie, Jr." in Alexandria, LA. Note that Dave forged documents for his unofficial Civil Air Patrol Falcon ssquadron and was not
averse to calling himself "Dr. Ferrie" as well. The variant "Jr." cannot hide the fact
that the rare name "David W. Ferrie" is Dave's own.

Because Stephen Roy wrote to Education Forum, etc. that Dave's newer car was
repossessed, stating that he had no old car in 1963, his essay was sent everywhere with the title "Judyth's lie." I mention this old car several times in ME & LEE and in the earlier unauthorized version.

We have records that Dave had many contacts in Alexandria, LA.
where the old Ford was registered. In fact, on Nov. 23, 1963, Dave called
Alexandria LA from his hotel room in Galveston, TX.
On the 24th, Dave was physically present in Alexandria, where his friend
and later business partner Al Beauboeuf had relatives.
Dave told FBI he had planned to attend a party in Alexandria until hearing
of Jack Martin's accusations. [W.C.D. 75 FBI Interview of David Ferrie 11/25/63
by SA ERNEST WALL and SA L. M. SHEARER at New Orleans]

HELP ME SPEAK OUT FOR JUSTICE FOR JOHN KENNEDY AND LEE OSWALD THIS OCTOBER AND NOVEMBER!
False accusations keep some good researchers wary of my testimony.
I attach summary by Southern Research for the FAA, a rare document. The old car is mentioned in this Nov. 1962 document about halfway down.

In 2007 Mr. Roy revealed to a small newspaper that he once believed
Lee Oswald was innocent, but since has changed his mind.

In writing my book about David Ferrie, to be published
this November by Trine Day, I have uncovered the real man for you,
a man Mr. Roy never met.

It is my hope that you will be willing to express confidence in me as a credible witness, if you do not already, when i seek to speak out on the 50th. there has been a price to pay for bringing you the truth. Stand with me against the tidal wave of disinformation blaming the innocent Lee Oswald, who actually tried to save JFK's life and did succeed in doing so in Chicago. Write to me in 'messages' if you'd like to help me reach the people this October and November, for the sake of our great and martyred President, John F. Kennedy.
I need your moral support and, hopefully, you'll also give me your public support.
Speak out for my right to be heard.
They have been unable to attack the book itself (Me & Lee), except for
this matter of the old car. Now, they'll have to make up some other objection.
I have received thousands of emails of support, God bless you all!
Thank you for all you've done. Did you know I am blocked from
posting a response to Mr. Roy at Education Forum or on other forums?
Computer experts have proven I am being deliberately and systematically blocked.
I have their witness and documentation. Stand strong for my right, therefore, to be heard! It will give me the heart to fight on.

See document!

Close quote

[Stephen Roy]

Quick background:

Baker never met Ferrie. She earlier claimed that she and Oswald drove around in Ferrie's car, but I noted that the car he had in early 1963 was described as in "deplorable" shape, so her second book describes the car as in poor shape. Next, I informed her that the car was repossessed in March 1963 and that he did not get a new car until November, instead using a motorcycle all summer.

Now she uses a 1963 investigative report commissioned by Eastern Air Lines (which I first posted online nearly 20 years ago) to suggest that Ferrie actually did have a car. She omits that the car was registered to Lt. David W. Ferrie Jr, USMC, of Alexandria. In fact, Ferrie allowed a young serviceman to use his name to register a car which his parents would not let him register, something he did more than once.

She mentions Ferrie having used the title "Dr. David W. Ferrie," but fails to note that he did so because he had a virtually useless degree in pyschology from a mail-order diploma mill in Italy, and hoped to start a service counseling young boys.

She once again repeats that I never met Ferrie. I did not, but many biographers never met subjects who died many years ago. I have used documents and interviews, the old-fashioned way. More important, SHE never met Ferrie. She has provided NO checkable evidence that she did, citing only uncheckable items like claims that he lectured her and she kept notes, that he lent her a library card or that he sent her a book. In fact, she makes claims that would never have happened: activities in New Orleans when Ferrie was not in the city; having enemies at parties, whom he would never have invited or allowed to be there; wearing a pilot's uniform and discussing his homosexuality when the slightest mention of these things would destroy what he wanted most at that moment, to win his grievances against Eastern Air Lines and get back on flight duty. She claims to have worked at some sort of makeshift medical lab at Ferrie's apartment but cannot account for the fact that many people who came and went at odd hours (or who LIVED there) saw no sign of such a lab, and did not recognize Baker by description, picture or name. Her lame excuse that the items were hidden does not diminish that some of these people could have shown up unannounced ANYTIME. For these and many other reasons, Baker has no option but to try to pre-emptively discredit my ongoing research. If she thinks that the car is the ONLY problem found in her book, let me assure folks that there are MANY more problems with it. It would take another book to discuss them all.

Due to what I consider a crazy atmosphere, I decided some time ago to disengage and just let her publish whatever she wants without mentioning me. But she insists on dragging my name into this again and again, which will not work to her benefit in the long run. There is a reason why almost all researchers (and especially specialists on New Orleans), on all sides of these issues, do not credit her stories.

Once again she plays the sympathy card: Nefarious forces are deliberately blocking her from responding. If that be the case, she can email me and, with the approval of the Moderators, I will post her responses here.

How about THAT, Karl?

Edited July 29, 2013 by Stephen Roy

[Thomas Graves]

[...]

In fact, Ferrie allowed a young serviceman to use his name to register a car which his parents would not let him register...

[...]

Stephen,

It seems to me that when you let someone register a car in your name, it's legally your car.

Maybe the young serviceman let Ferrie "borrow" the car from time to time, like when he was on active duty abroad?

--Thomas

Edited July 30, 2013 by Thomas Graves

[Stephen Roy]

Sure, anything is possible. Ferrie could have borrowed a car from any of a number of people.

Of course, when a reporter talked to neighbors in November, they said Ferrie had been using a motorcycle all summer.

In my state, it was possible to register a car under a name different from the owner. We did that in my family.

Ferrie didn't own a car between March and November. Given his money situation, I'd be surprised if he could have bought a car for the boy.

[Karl Kinaski]

Judyth Baker wrote on FB: Dear Karl: Thank you for posting on the Education Forum about David Ferrie's second car. When Mr. Roy bluntly declared that I lied because i reported that on several occasions, Dave used a car in the summer of 1963 (of course I assumed it belonged to him) I knew not what to do. I was in the car. He drove the car.

Mr. Roy's long response hides information readers need to know.

(1) First, he wrote that for 20 years he has known about the document that presents car #2. (2) He knew David Ferrie had that car registered in his name. (3) But he did not tell any of his readers about this car. Instead, he declared Dave had no other car and that I lied.

But he says Dave didn't use this second car. Why? (1) He says Dave used his name tom register the car for the true owner (2) He then identifies the actual owner as "David W. Ferrie, Jr." and says he is a young serviceman in the US MARINE CORPS. (3) He does not consider that the recipient of this "favor" would 'owe' Dave some consideration if Dave ever needed to use that car. (4) Instead of agreeing that --possibly-- Dave might have borrowed this car a few times during the six months when he had only a motorcycle, or that Dave had many friends, one of whom could have loaned him their car, Mr. Roy declared to all that Dave Ferrie had no car, had no access to one, and that I lied. (5) Ask him to produce this young man's real name. He is NOT "David W. Ferrie, Jr", a Marine.

NOW TO THE REAL ISSUE. On close examination of the document, the car may be 1959, not 1950, but that doesn't matter. It had motor problems, was damaged, was in bad condition and had been in an accident. I reported Dave's gripe to me that he 'deserved' a better car after all he had done. That should have been my clue that the car did not belong to him, but I was young.

Readers, consider: the same man Mr. Roy described as having easy access to friends' AIRPLANES could have had access to a car REGISTERED IN HIS NAME. To declare this impossible is a stretch. Mr. Roy CANNOT declare that David Ferrie, who had a car registered in his name --and therefore could legally drive that car--would not on occasion be able to borrow said car from time to time after his other car was repossessed.

NOW TO THE CRUX: STEPHEN WROTE:

"She omits that the car was registered to Lt. David W. Ferrie Jr, USMC, of Alexandria. In fact, Ferrie allowed a young serviceman to use his name to register a car which his parents would not let him register, something he did more than once."

===NOTE WELL: 'A CAR WHICH HIS PARENTS WOULD NOT LET HIM REGISTER.== THERE ARE TWO IMPORTANT PROBLEMS WITH MR. ROY'S ASSUMPTIONS. (1) If the "young serviceman" was a Marine, as mr. Roy claims, he'd be on duty and would NOT be home most of the time, giving Dave a good excuse to borrow the car when needed. BUT THERE'S MORE. (2) Since the parents lived at that address and "would not let him register" the car, Mr. Roy cannot prove that the car would be kept where the disapproving parents lived. In fact, it makes more sense that the car would be kept in a safe location where the parents wouldn't know that the car existed. Such as, New Orleans. Available, when the young Marine might return. Driven a bit, now and then, by David Ferrie, whose other car had been towed away, to keep the battery from running down. I am a witness that the car had problems getting started--a problem with cars that aren't driven enough. Their batteries run down. The problem with the car starting might have been because it was being stored, and wasn't being used much.

Rather than examine these reasonable possibilities, considering the factb that the parents did not want their son to register a car, and he had committed this illegal act, storing the car makes sense. And driving it every once in awhile (but discretely, so word would not get back to angry parents) could explain why Dave's friends didn't notice (However, Layton Martens was in the car at least once). Mr. Roy declares that David's friends -- friends he NEVER names-- NEVER saw the car. Therefore, it was never used. I believe that together, Mr. Roy and i could have unraveled many mysteries about David Ferrie. I have asked him to direct comments to my Facebook page about David Ferrie. He is always welcome there.

Karl, I thank you for this opportunity to respond. Mr. Roy is not always right.

Close quote

Karl Kinaski Yes - I ll put it on the Ed-forum thx...fact is: Ferrie had a car to his disposal in the summer of 1963 and you sat in that car...Stephen Roys hairsplitting arguments about that fact are no longer important to me...

[William Kelly]

Stephen,

Do you have a manuscript ready for a book on Ferrie?

Apparently Judyth and TrinDay are publishing a book on Ferrie, based in part on your procrastination.

Judyth announced the imminent publication of her Ferrie book on Facebook.

Looking forward to you straightening out the record on Ferrie, if you can.

BK

[J. Raymond Carroll]

Stephen,

Looking forward to you straightening out the record on Ferrie, if you can.

BK

Stephen:

I am also looking forward to your book, which I gather will cover the entire Garrison fiasco.

I note that Bill Kelly accuses you of "procrastination" because your book has been promised for some time

but do not let that worry you. I have heard that David Talbot is working on a book focussing on Alan Dulles

as a suspect. I gather that his target publication date is October 2014, the 50th anniversary of the Warren Report.

That would be a good time for your book to appear.

Keep up the good work!

[William Kelly]

Stephen,

Looking forward to you straightening out the record on Ferrie, if you can.

BK

Stephen:

I am also looking forward to your book, which I gather will cover the entire Garrison fiasco.

I note that Bill Kelly accuses you of "procrastination" because your book has been promised for some time

but do not let that worry you. I have heard that David Talbot is working on a book focussing on Alan Dulles

as a suspect. I gather that his target publication date is October 2014, the 50th anniversary of the Warren Report.

That would be a good time for your book to appear.

Keep up the good work!

It is not me who is accusing Stephen of procrastination, as I am the biggest procrastinator I know, but it is Judyth Vary Baker who accuses him of not publishing his work as an excuse for her to publish her new book on Ferrie at Trinday. Please read Judyth's preview of her book.

BK

[Ron Ecker]

Take heart, Steven. Charles Darwin procrastinated for years till Sir Alfred Russel Wallace beat him to the punch with an essay on natural selection. But when Darwin finally published On the Origin of Species, it did all right.

[J. Raymond Carroll]

I am the biggest procrastinator I know,

BK

The only reason that is easy for you to say, Bill,

is because you never met me!

[Karl Kinaski]

Ray Carroll: I am also looking forward to your book, which I gather will cover the entire Garrison fiasco.

The topic is not Roy vs Garrison, it is Roy vs Baker. To compare their Ferrie-books will be an intellectual adventure...

KK

[William Kelly]

New book - Rose By Many Other Names - a bio of Rose Cheramie - by Todd Elliot

La. author writes book on JFK Assassination | KATC.com | Acadiana-Lafayette, Louisiana

[Stephen Roy]

I've corresponded privately with Baker. A family issue is taking all of my attention right now, and it may well affect the progress of my book. I have asked her to just leave me out of things right now.

I have no problem with her researching and writing on the JFK case and I have no desire to impede her book sales. It makes no sense for me to discuss/debate on her Facebook pages, as I don't believe her story.

Once again, my book is a biography, not an assassination book. Somewhat like Carpenter's Clay Shaw book, it merely assembles a bunch of new biographical and contextual material to help define who this mysterious guy was. I clarify, for example, the provable relationship between Ferrie and the CIA, and I offer a bunch of context of the FRD/CRC in New Orleans. It's hard to imagine Baker coming up with a similar book, but you never know. I wish she and her FB supporters would stop trying to portray me as a disinfo agent or a jealous rival.

BTW Mods: Do we really need to start the new EdForum era with call-out subject heads using a member's name? (Misspelled, in my case.)

[Karl Kinaski]

Stephen Roy: I would like your book coming out this year, to compare it with the Baker book to conceive a kind of final opinion about Ferrie. There is a lot of stuff about Ferrie in Bakers recent book, and it all sounds right to me...

It is not my intention to add fuel to the fire of the personal feud between Baker and you. My sympathies are not on the side of a particular person, but on the side of the better argument.

Thx.

Edited August 9, 2013 by Karl Kinaski

[Paul Brancato]

Stephen Roy - have you published your bio of Ferrie?