Sandy Larsen Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Is this one (the one on the right) from another video? Or is it a still? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Mitcham Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 (edited) Is this one (the one on the right) from another video? Or is it a still? A still from the above video, Sandy. Edited October 24, 2016 by Ray Mitcham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Thomas Are you purposely trying to confuse the issues here? I am making only one argument, and would appreciate it if you left me out of the rest of the discussion. You have no conclusive proof that Lovelady and Shelley can be seen walking down the Elm St. extension, outside of some "enhanced" stills that purport to show Lovelady's plaid shirt in great detail. Who did the enhancement on these stills? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 I did, since I posted them. Besides the pix, their statements and their subsequent WC testimony speak volumes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 (edited) Is this one (the one on the right) from another video? Or is it a still? [it's an enlargement of] a still from the above video, Sandy. "The film sequence we’re interested in starts after [Charles] Buck [of WFAA-TV] says, “he was being brought in from the Texas theatre.” This is about 38 minutes and 28 seconds into this show. Then we fade to film of Oswald and his police escort coming around the initial booking area down a small short hallway and onto the elevator. There is a man with some type of maintenace uniform on already in the elevator and he stays in the corner of the elevator as Oswald and company get in. Oswald is escorted by five men, one of whom is a Dallas cop, in uniform, with a white cap on his head. At 38:39 there is an edit, or fade out, because the camera man filming this did not get in the elevator with Oswald. Then at 38:40 there is another camera man that is on the third floor and captures them getting out. We see the hallway they are going to. There is an office door open on both sides with a woman standing guard next to each open door. And there are three men further down the hallway. At 38:46 the door to office 317, the Homicide and Robbery Bureau headed by Captain Fritz is opened by a man with a suit on with a thin tie and Oswald and company go in. There are already at least 4 men in this office area. One was near the door as Oswald and company came in. We follow them going in and kind of rounding the corner going somewhat parallel but now in the opposite direction of the hallway they just came from. Then there is an edit or fade out. Now at about 38:49 the camera has been moved a bit so that we see Oswald and company almost in a straight column walking away from the cameraman’s position. The position of some of the men as they walk away from the camera man's viewpoint, the 3rd, 4th, and 5th man block the camera’s view of the cop with the white cap and Oswald temporarily as this cop and Oswald move a little to the left of your screen because of where Billy Nolan Lovelady is sitting. In fact, the last man in this column temporarily blocks the camera’s view of everyone except the man directly in front of him at 38:51. Then two men move a little bit to the right, the cop with the white cap and Oswald. The cop stops and holds onto Oswald for a second or two. There is a little delay before they put Oswald into an interior office room and close the door. This door does not have a glass plane, it's solid, wood or metal." -- from a 2012 post by Joseph Backes http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19115 Note the pack of cigarettes in Lovelady's shirt pocket and recall that Cinque's "Neanderthal Man" was smoking on the front steps of the TSBD, in close proximity to two other male TSBD workers -- Bonny Ray Williams and Danny Arce -- as they all three were waiting (apparently) to get back inside the building. Click on this and scroll down about halfway. The bald spot kinda ties it all together. http://www.jfklancer.com/photos/lovelady/ -- Tommy Edited October 24, 2016 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 (edited) Thomas Are you purposely trying to confuse the issues here? I am making only one argument, and would appreciate it if you left me out of the rest of the discussion. You have no conclusive proof that Lovelady and Shelley can be seen walking down the Elm St. extension, outside of some "enhanced" stills that purport to show Lovelady's plaid shirt in great detail. Who did the enhancement on these stills? Howdy Bob, I guess you didn't notice the bald spot on the top-rear of Lovelady's head. Pity, that. -- Tommy Edited October 24, 2016 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Thomas Let's just agree to disagree for the moment. I have been looking very hard to find Shelley's height, and if turns out he was slightly taller than ovelady, it will be very convincing in regards to S & L being seen walking down the Elm St. extension. Bart In the arrest records you found for Shelley, were his height and weight given? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Thomas Let's just agree to disagree for the moment. I have been looking very hard to find Shelley's height, and if turns out he was slightly taller than ovelady, it will be very convincing in regards to S & L being seen walking down the Elm St. extension. Bart In the arrest records you found for Shelley, were his height and weight given? They were not Shelley's arrest records, when we found the doc at the archives we thought he did have one, but whoever did the research put a William Sheley in Shelley's file. And how do you know height differences of the two when these two are perhaps (!) not even walking on the same surface, be it just for a moment. You don't know his height and therefore doubt it is Shelley, yet the photos and above all the statements point to it that they are and that they lied to the WC about them staying there even when Wiegman shows that Lovelady and Shelley are moving to make their way down and cannot be seen in Darnell on the stairs but walking and even clearer in Couch. I could continue talking about this till the cows come home but we would descend into Doyle/Cinque/Fetzer territory and unless I see evidence to the contrary I stand by what I posted. All the best! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 (edited) Thomas Let's just agree to disagree for the moment. I have been looking very hard to find Shelley's height, and if turns out he was slightly taller than Lovelady, it will be very convincing in regards to S & L being seen walking down the Elm St. extension. Bart In the arrest records you found for Shelley, were his height and weight given? They were not Shelley's arrest records, when we found the doc at the archives we thought he did have one, but whoever did the research put a William Sheley in Shelley's file. And how do you know height differences of the two when these two are perhaps (!) not even walking on the same surface, be it just for a moment. You don't know his height and therefore doubt it is Shelley, yet the photos and above all the statements point to it that they are and that they lied to the WC about them staying there even when Wiegman shows that Lovelady and Shelley are moving to make their way down and cannot be seen in Darnell on the stairs but walking and even clearer in Couch. I could continue talking about this till the cows come home but we would descend into Doyle/Cinque/Fetzer territory and unless I see evidence to the contrary I stand by what I posted. All the best! Bart, It looks like they were walking on the same surface -- the street. Note the parked car behind them. Scroll down to the big photo. http://www.reopenkennedycase.org/apps/forums/topics/show/13152069-billy-lovelady-location?page=4 Prudhomme says Shelly was just a little bit taller than Lovelady. Buell Wesley Frazier said Lovelady was only about 5' 4". That would make Shelley about 5' 6". -- Tommy Edited October 24, 2016 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Thomas Do you really mean to tell me you are willing to accept hearsay evidence from Gary Mack, one of the biggest proponents of the Crazy Kid Oswald theory that ever switched sides, over a report from the FBI which clearly states Bill Lovelady was 5' 8" tall? Now, think really hard about this one, Thomas. What possible reason would the FBI have to lie about Lovelady by stating he was 5' 8" instead of 5' 2", as Gary Mack claims he was told by Frazier? If anything, wouldn't the FBI WANT Lovelady to be 5' 2", instead of 5' 8", which would put him uncomfortably close in height to Oswald, who was 5' 9" tall? Do you think the FBI lied when they recorded Lovelady's height as 5' 8"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Thomas Let's just agree to disagree for the moment. I have been looking very hard to find Shelley's height, and if turns out he was slightly taller than ovelady, it will be very convincing in regards to S & L being seen walking down the Elm St. extension. Bart In the arrest records you found for Shelley, were his height and weight given? They were not Shelley's arrest records, when we found the doc at the archives we thought he did have one, but whoever did the research put a William Sheley in Shelley's file. And how do you know height differences of the two when these two are perhaps (!) not even walking on the same surface, be it just for a moment. You don't know his height and therefore doubt it is Shelley, yet the photos and above all the statements point to it that they are and that they lied to the WC about them staying there even when Wiegman shows that Lovelady and Shelley are moving to make their way down and cannot be seen in Darnell on the stairs but walking and even clearer in Couch. I could continue talking about this till the cows come home but we would descend into Doyle/Cinque/Fetzer territory and unless I see evidence to the contrary I stand by what I posted. All the best! They are both walking in the middle of the Elm St. extension roadway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 (edited) Thomas Do you really mean to tell me you are willing to accept hearsay evidence from Gary Mack, one of the biggest proponents of the Crazy Kid Oswald theory that ever switched sides, over a report from the FBI which clearly states Bill Lovelady was 5' 8" tall? Now, think really hard about this one, Thomas. What possible reason would the FBI have to lie about Lovelady by stating he was 5' 8" instead of 5' 2", as Gary Mack claims he was told by Frazier? If anything, wouldn't the FBI WANT Lovelady to be 5' 2", instead of 5' 8", which would put him uncomfortably close in height to Oswald, who was 5' 9" tall? Do you think the FBI lied when they recorded Lovelady's height as 5' 8"? Howdy Bob, It's interesting that you seemingly cherry-pick from FBI documents, depending on the situation and the person involved. Why are you calling Gary Mack's interview of Buell Wesley Frazier "hearsay evidence"? Do you automatically distrust anyone whose statements apparently contradict your theory? -- Tommy PS Frazier told Mack that Lovelady was " 5' 2", 5' 3", maybe even 5' 4"." I think Buell had a hard time judging the height of people who were significantly shorter than he. I believe Frazier was 6' 1" or 6' 2". I, at 6' 5", have the same problem in judging the height of "mere mortals," and a really hard time with people as short as Lovelady apparently was. Edited October 29, 2016 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Thomas Do you think the FBI was lying when they stated, in their report, that Bill Lovelady was 5' 8" tall? If you believe they lied about this, give one logical reason they would do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 (edited) Thomas Do you think the FBI was lying when they stated, in their report, that Bill Lovelady was 5' 8" tall? If you believe they lied about this, give one logical reason they would do so. Howdy Bob! Mistakes will happen, be they by the FBI or Buell Wesley Frazier. What does it matter what Shelley's and Lovelady's respective heights were as long as they were within a couple inches of each other? They look about the same height to me in Couch / Darnell, so given Lovelady's distinctive plaid shirt along with the bald spot on the top-rear of his head, and given Shelley's distinctive hairstyle and the dark suit he was wearing on his slender frame, and given their first-day statements, those two guys walking down Elm Street Extension (with the slender suit-wearing one cutting over towards the "island") must be .... well ... Shelley and Lovelady! -- Tommy PS You mean to tell me you think the FBI was telling the truth for a change? Tsk. tsk, tsk. What's getting into you, Bob? PPS Please remind me where you want Shelley and Lovelady to be, you know, like ... one, two, three, four, and five minutes after the assassination I mean, you know, for your "theory" to work. Thanks! Edited October 29, 2016 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 (edited) Is this one (the one on the right) from another video? Or is it a still? A still from the above video, Sandy. Ray, Will you tell which post number has the video you're referring to? I don't see this particular frame in the video that I saw posted above. Edited October 25, 2016 by Sandy Larsen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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