Pat Speer- I am confused (so what else is new?)...re: JFK head wound

[Vince Palamara]

DR CHARLES CRENSHAW:

WC references to his presence on 11/22/63: 6 H 40 (Baxter), 6 H 31-32

(McClelland), 6 H 80-81 (Salyer), 6 H 141 (Henchcliffe), 6 H 60 (Curtis)+15 H

761: index;

Completely overlooked WC reference to his presence on 11/24/63: 21 H

265(report by Parkland Administrator Charles Price)---"Dr. Charles

Crenshaw was in the corridor and said they had been alerted. He said,

‘You’re not going to put him [Oswald] in the same room the President was in,

are you?’ told him I surely was glad he had thought of it and by all

means, not to.";

January 1964 "Texas State Journal of Medicine" article entitled "Three Patients

at Parkland", p. 72---"Dr.

Jenkins recalls

that the following physicians

were members of the resuscitation team: Drs. Jenkins and Akin…Drs. Gerry

Gustafson, Dale Coln, and Charles Crenshaw, all residents in surgery, who

were prepared to introduce cannulae into the veins via cutdowns or percutaneous

puncture…three

members

of the

staff were performing venous cutdowns,

one

in each lower extremity

and

one

in the left forearm.

These

were

performed

by

Drs.

Coln,

Crenshaw,

and

Gustafson."

Edited December 22, 2013 by Vince Palamara

[Malcolm Ward]

me from behind and was likely the work of Lee Harvey Oswald, it appeared the fatal shot to the back of the Presidents head was an exit wound. And later when he closely examined the classic Abraham Zapruder film, he decided there had to be a second gunman. That he (Kennedy) was shot from the front, from the picket fence, adjoining the plaza.

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2013/11/18/surgeon-who-tried-to-save-jfk-reflects-on-50th-anniversary-of-assassination/

Wait a minute, Ward. You are on record believing that the Zapruder film was altered in order to hide a conspiracy, yet you believe that this altered film turned a lone nut theorist into a conspiracy theorist?

My,you sound angry Perez.Like Pat Speer,my opinion is evolving.I am williing to see past my own prejudices.And opinions,at times.I once thought that the Secret Service was not involved.I no longer hold that view.The Assassination happened,because the Secret Service was not protecting the President.

You could easily say that Prudhomme seems angry (not "sounds angry", as he is not speaking, he's typing), but he is on your side of the argument. So you will pretend that those opposiing your view are angry, while you and those on your side are calm and collected. Not surprisingly, you claim to sense anger in Pat's words, too. Shocker!

In fact, the likelihood of you being angry right now is high, as it was not your plan to tout testimony (McClelland's) that goes against the film alteration theory. Having stated that you believed the film was altered was supposed to be a secret, but now someone called you out on it, due to your reliance on the same film. That would make me angry. But it's ok. Evolving views happen all the time. Even in the case of "gunshot expert" McClelland. Now take a deep breath and relax.

Your referal to me as Ward,made me think you are angry,unless you always use Surnames.I usually try to be polite,but when someone forgets their manners,I can do likewise.Hence Perez.

[Vince Palamara]

Dr. William H. Zedlitz, Resident Surgeon

[Zedelitz]:

a) WC reference: 6 H 83;

b) 11/4/98 letter to Vince Palamara---"Dear Mr.

Palamara,

I received your letter concerning my participation in the emergency

treatment of President John F. Kennedy at Parkland Hospital on Nov. 22,

1963. At the time, I was a 2nd year general surgery resident at Parkland

Hospital and had just finished an operation and was starting to dictate

the operative report when I heard the page operator page Dr. Tom Shires

(chairman of the Department of General Surgery) to the emergency room.

Since Dr. Shires was not in town at that time I proceeded to the ER to

see what the problem was. As I stepped off the elevator, a man in a suit

with a gun asked me if I was a doctor. I replied that I was, and he

directed me to trauma room #1. I noticed at that point that the ER was

entirely empty of patients (they had been transported to another area by

the Secret Service). When I entered the trauma room I was surprised to

see two of our staff physicians (Dr. Charles Baxter and Dr. Malcolm

Perry) and one of the 3rd year surgery residents (Dr. James Carrico)

already there. Dr. Carrico had inserted an endotracheal tube into the

President and was trying to ventilate him with oxygen. At first glance

the president seemed to be in extremely serious condition as he was not

responding to any of the stimuli around him, and obviously had a massive

head injury to the right occipito-parietal area (right

posterior-lateral) of his cranium. This area was a mass of bloody tissue

with multiple skin, hair, and bony fragments matted together with blood

and brain tissue and covered an area approximately ten by twelve

centimeters in diameter. His left eye also seemed to be bulging from his

eyesocket. At this point, Dr. Carrico indicated that he was unable to

effectively ventilate the patient via the endotracheal tube. Dr. Baxter

and Perry immediately began to perform a tracheostomy. Prior to making

the incision, it was noted that a small (5mm to 7mm) hole in the front

of the neck below the thyroid cartilage was present. This was in the

exact location where the tracheostomy was to be performed. Dr. Baxter

and Perry decided to do the procedure by extending the transverse

incision on either side of this hole so that the tracheostomy tube ended

up being inserted in the site of the former hole. I trust this answers

your questions regarding the location of the head injury and the

appearance of the neck prior to the tracheostomy.

Sincerely,

William H. Zedlitz, M.D., FACS"

c) “Murder In Dealey Plaza” by James Fetzer (2000), page 405

d) Presented at the JFK Lancer conference, Nov. 2003

Edited December 22, 2013 by Vince Palamara

[Andric Perez]

me from behind and was likely the work of Lee Harvey Oswald, it appeared the fatal shot to the back of the Presidents head was an exit wound. And later when he closely examined the classic Abraham Zapruder film, he decided there had to be a second gunman. That he (Kennedy) was shot from the front, from the picket fence, adjoining the plaza.

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2013/11/18/surgeon-who-tried-to-save-jfk-reflects-on-50th-anniversary-of-assassination/

Wait a minute, Ward. You are on record believing that the Zapruder film was altered in order to hide a conspiracy, yet you believe that this altered film turned a lone nut theorist into a conspiracy theorist?

My,you sound angry Perez.Like Pat Speer,my opinion is evolving.I am williing to see past my own prejudices.And opinions,at times.I once thought that the Secret Service was not involved.I no longer hold that view.The Assassination happened,because the Secret Service was not protecting the President.

You could easily say that Prudhomme seems angry (not "sounds angry", as he is not speaking, he's typing), but he is on your side of the argument. So you will pretend that those opposiing your view are angry, while you and those on your side are calm and collected. Not surprisingly, you claim to sense anger in Pat's words, too. Shocker!

In fact, the likelihood of you being angry right now is high, as it was not your plan to tout testimony (McClelland's) that goes against the film alteration theory. Having stated that you believed the film was altered was supposed to be a secret, but now someone called you out on it, due to your reliance on the same film. That would make me angry. But it's ok. Evolving views happen all the time. Even in the case of "gunshot expert" McClelland. Now take a deep breath and relax.

Your referal to me as Ward,made me think you are angry,unless you always use Surnames.I usually try to be polite,but when someone forgets their manners,I can do likewise.Hence Perez.

Perez sounds more polite to me than being called by my first name. Keep it up!

[Pat Speer]

DR KEMP CLARK:

"Killing The Truth", p. 702---"Although I [Livingstone] had no interview, Dr. Kemp Clark passed a verbal message to me in his outer office that the picture of the back of the head was inaccurate.";

1/5/94, 1/20/94, and 1/28/94 interviews with David Naro [see COPA 1994

abstract]---"The lower right occipital region of the head was blown out and I

saw cerebellum. In my opinion, the wound was an exit wound…a large hole

in the back of the President's head…blown out";

When I was first studying the head wound issue, I read about Naro, and his claims he spoke to Clark. I found no evidence that he'd actually spoken to Clark, nor anything indicating Naro was anything but a scam artist.

He appeared out of nowhere, and claimed he'd personally interviewed the J.D. Salinger of the Kennedy assassination three times. His descriptions of the wound, as purportedly told him by Clark, however, failed to match Clark's previous reports and statements. Naro then disappeared.

This is the real Clark, IMO.

From chapter 18d:

A November 22, 1983 UPI article (found in the Ellensburg Daily Record) boasts an interview with Clark, and he claims "The only regret I have is that I'm constantly bothered by a bunch of damn fools who want me to make some kind of controversial statement about what I saw, what was done, or that he is still alive here on the 12th floor of Parkland Hospital or some foolish thing like that. Since these guys are making their money by writing this kind of provocative books, it annoys me, frankly."

[Pat Speer]

What if the Parkland doctors did not see this small wound? Would we be required to believe that Mr. Robinson was not telling the truth about it?

McLelland once claimed to have seen a small wound in the "left temple." Even if you argue that he meant "right temple," McClelland added in 1963 to the St. Louis Post Dispatch (See Speer, ch. 18d): ""I am fully satisfied that the two bullets that hit him were from behind."

In a separate post in this thread, someone dismisses criticism of the Parkland doctors and nurses on the basis that they are "gunshot experts" whose word should be trusted. Do you trust the statement above? Did he suddenly become a non-expert when he made that statement?

DALLAS (CBS 11 NEWS) - Friday marks fifty years since President John Fitzgerald Kennedy was gunned down in Dallas, and interest in the anniversary is high.

Memories are flooding back, especially for the last surviving surgeon who tried to save the President’s life.

“There was no way we could treat him that he could be salvaged,” Dr. Robert McClelland tells CBS 11 News. McClelland and two other surgeons were summoned to Parkland’s ER that fateful Friday.

“Pushed the door open and was horrified to see— the first thing I saw there—was President Kennedy lying on his back on a cart with an operating room light shining down on is bloody head.”

They initially found the President with what appeared to be only a bullet wound to the neck… until McClelland checked his head.

“(I said) ‘My God, have you seen the back of his head?’ And they said, ‘No, we came in just ahead of you.’ And I said, ‘Well, the whole back of his head is missing on the back side.’” McClelland continued, “Well, when I saw that injury to the back of his head, it became apparent to all of us, all three of us who were gathered around the President’s head working on him, that this was a fatal injury.”

Still, Kennedy’s heart was working and he was trying to breathe, according to McClelland. “So he was definitely not dead as you could define absolute death, but he certainly had a fatal wound that could not be repaired. Either then or now, for that matter.”

They worked on his neck wound for five minutes…until his electrocardiogram straight-lined. When the President was declared dead, Dr. McClelland said there were so many unauthorized people in the cubicle that he and another doctor were trapped inside, pinned between the President’s cart and the wall…and they became unwilling witnesses to his last rites.

Mrs. Kennedy-—Jackie–joined the priest, and McClelland says showed no emotion once he told her the rites had been performed.

“She then took a ring from her finger, and put it on the President’s finger, and a ring from his finger and put it on her finger,” he said adding that the President’s foot was lying outside the sheet that covered him. “She stood by his foot for just a moment, then leaned over and kissed his bare foot and walked out of the room.”

McClelland has since found himself at odds with official versions of what happened at Dealey Plaza. He says he was troubled immediately with the wounds. While the one to the President’s neck seemed to come from behind and was likely the work of Lee Harvey Oswald, it appeared the fatal shot to the back of the President’s head was an exit wound. And later when he closely examined the classic Abraham Zapruder film, he decided there had to be a second gunman. “That he (Kennedy) was shot from the front, from the picket fence,” adjoining the plaza.

McClelland knows this runs counter to the accepted, lone gunman reports, but he claims we will likely never know just what happened that day.

Ironically, two days later he tried to save the life of accused gunman Lee Harvey Oswald after Oswald was shot by Jack Ruby. McClelland feels Oswald’s wound could have been repaired but he repeatedly went into cardiac arrest and finally died.

Source:

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2013/11/18/surgeon-who-tried-to-save-jfk-reflects-on-50th-anniversary-of-assassination/

PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL

ADMISSION NOTE

J. F. KENNEDY

DATE AND HOUR 11/22/63 1620

DOCTOR: Carrico

When patient entered Emergency room on ambulance carriage had slow agonal respiratory efforts and scant cardiac beats by auscultation. Two external wounds were noted. One small penetrating wound of ant. neck in lower 1/3. The other wound had avulsed the calvarium and shredded brain tissue present with profuse oozing. No pulse or blood pressure were present. Pupils were dilated and fixed. A cuffed endotracheal tube was inserted and through the laryngoscope a ragged wound of the trachea was seen immediately below the larynx. The tube was passed past the laceration and the cuff inflated. Respiration using the resp assistor on auto-matic were instituted. Concurrently an IV infusion of lactated Ringer solution was begun via catheter placed in right leg and blood was drawn for type and crossmatch. Type O Rh negative blood was obtained as well as hydrocortisone.

In view of tracheal injury and decreased BS a tracheostomy was performed by Dr. Perry and Bilat. chest tubes inserted. A 2^nd bld infusion was begun in left arm. In addition Dr. Jenkins began resp with anesthesia machine, cardiac monitor, and stimulator attached. Solu cortef IV given (300mg), attempt to control slow oozing from cerebral and cerebellar tissue via packs instituted. Despite these measures as well as external cardiac massage, BP never returned and EKG evidence of cardiac activity was never obtained.

Charles J. Carrico M.D

PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL

ADMISSION NOTE

J. F. KENNEDY

DATE AND HOUR 22 Nov 1963 DOCTOR: PERRY

Staff Note

At the time of initial examination, the pt. was noted as non-responsive. The eyes were deviated and the pupils were dilated. A considerable quantity of blood was noted on the patient, the carriage and the floor. A small wound was noted in the midline of the neck, in the lower third anteriorly. It was exuding blood slowly. A large wound of the right posterior cranium was noted, exposing severely lacerated brain. Brain tissue was noted in the blood at the head of the carriage.

Pulse or heartbeat were not detectable but slow spasmodic respiration was noted. An endotracheal tube was in place and respiration was being assisted. An intravenous infusion was being placed in the leg.

At this point I noted that respiration was ineffective and while additional venisections were done to administer fluids and blood, a tracheostomy was effected. A right lateral injury to the trachea was noted. The tracheostomy tube was put in place and the cuff inflated and respiration assisted. Closed chest cardiac massage was instituted after placement of sealed drainage chest tubes, but without benefit. Electrocardiographic evaluation revealed that no detectable electrical activity existed in the heart. Resuscitation attempts were abandoned after the team of physicians determined that the patient had expired.

Malcolm O. Perry, M.D.

1630 hr 22 Nov 1963

PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL

ADMISSION NOTE

DATE AND HOUR NOV 22, 1963 DOCTOR: BAXTER

Note of Attendance to President Kennedy

I was contacted at approx 12:40 that the President was on the way to the emergency room having been shot. On arrival there, I found an endotracheal tube in place with assisted respirations, a left chest tube being inserted and cut downs going in one leg and in the left arm. The President had a wound in the mid-line of the neck. On first observation of the remaining wounds the rt temporal and occipital bones were missing and the brain was lying on the table, with extensive lacerations and contusions. The pupils were fixed and deviated lateral and dilated. No pulse was detectable and respirations were (as noted) being supplied. A tracheotomy was performed by Dr. Perry and I and a chest tube inserted into the right chest (2^nd intercostal space anteriorally). Meanwhile, 2 pts of O neg blood were administered by pump without response. When all of these measures were complete, no heart beat could be detected. Closed chest massage was performed until a cardioscope could be attached which revealed no cardiac activity was obtained. Due to the excessive and irreparable brain damage which was lethal, no further attempt to resuscitate the heart was made.

Charles R. Baxter M.D.

Associate Prof of Surgery

Southwestern Medical School

PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL

ADMISSION NOTE

DATE AND HOUR Nov. 22, 1963 4:45 P.M. DOCTOR: Robert N. McClelland

Statement Regarding Assassination of President Kennedy

At approximately 12:45 PM on the above date I was called from the second floor of Parkland Hospital and went immediately to the Emergency Operating Room. When I arrived President Kennedy was being attended by Drs Malcolm Perry, Charles Baxter, James Carrico, and Ronald Jones. The President was at the time comatose from a massive gunshot wound of the head with a fragment wound of the trachea. An endotracheal tube and assisted respiration was started immediately by Dr. Carrico on Duty in the EOR when the President arrived. Drs. Perry, Baxter, and I then performed a tracheotomy for respiratory distress and tracheal injury and Dr. Jones and Paul Peters inserted bilateral anterior chest tubes for pneumothoracis secondary to the tracheomediastinal injury. Simultaneously Dr. Jones had started 3 cut-downs giving blood and fluids immediately, In spite of this, at 12:55 he was pronounced dead by Dr. Kemp Clark the neurosurgeon and professor of neurosurgery who arrived immediately after I did. The cause of death was due to massive head and brain injury from a gunshot wound of the left temple. He was pronounced dead after external cardiac message failed and ECG activity was gone.

Robert N. McClelland M.D.

Asst. Prof. of Surgery

Southwestern Med.

School of Univ of Tex.

Dallas, Texas

DATE AND HOUR 22 Nov 1963

12:20pm to 13:00 hrs

Called by EOR while standing in (illegible) Laboratory at SWMS. Told that the President had been shot. I arrived at the EOR at 1220 - 1225 and .The President was bleeding profusely from the back of the head. There was a large (3 x 3cm) amount of cerebral tissue present on the cart. There was a smaller amount of cerebellar tissue present also.

A tracheostomy was being performed by Drs. Perry, Baxter and McClelland. Exam of the President showed that an endotracheal tube was in place and respiratory assistance was being given by Dr. Akins and Jenkins. The pupils were dilated, fixed to light and his eyes were deviated outward and the right one downward as as well .

The trach was completed and I adjusted the endotracheal tube a little bit. Blood was present in the oral pharynx. Suction was used to remove this. Levine Catheter was passed into the stomach at this time.

He was (illegible) that I (illegible) no carotid pulse. I immediately began closed chest massage. A pulse was obtained at the carotid and femoral pulse levels.

Dr. Perry then took over the cardiac massage so I could evaluate the head wound.

There was a large wound beginning in the right occiput extending into the parietal region. Much of the skull appeared gone at brief examination. The previously described lacerated brain was present.

By this time an EKG was hooked up. There was no electrical activity of the heart and no respiratory effort - He was pronounced dead at 1300 hrs by me.

W. Kemp Clark

22 Nov 1963 1615 hrs -

The earliest reports say nothing of Kennedy's heart beating for five minutes or more before flat-lining. In fact they say the opposite, that Kennedy's heart had stopped beating altogether by the time they hooked up the EKG.

And not only that, they indicate the doctors knew of the head wound from the beginning. While it's true Carrico handed things off to Perry, is it really likely 1) Carrico failed to mention that oh yeah by the way the back of his head is blasted off, and 2) Perry failed to notice the blood and brain matter on the cart apparent to everyone else?

McClelland's story is just that: a story. Kennedy's heart was not beating for the first five minutes before flat-lining. He (McClelland) was not the first person to notice the head wound. And the wound he observed was almost certainly not a blow-out wound on the far back of the head as he later would claim...at least for a time. Memories evolve over time--details get re-arranged, the "truth" of what happened gets replaced over time by a story that is emotionally true, etc.

This is not my theory. It is a scientific fact. If you think McClelland is immune to memory degradation for some reason, go ahead.

As for me, I believe McClelland is a good man. His recollections are just not credible.

I mean, how can people claiming McClelland's (latter-day) observations are reliable and proof the President's wounds were altered, not notice that he has for many years claimed the tracheotomy incision shown in the autopsy photos is as he saw it at Parkland? And how is it not hypocritical to claim he's wrong about that, while saying he's undoubtedly right about the head wound?

Edited December 23, 2013 by Pat Speer

[Malcolm Ward]

Wait a minute, Ward. You are on record believing that the Zapruder film was altered in order to hide a conspiracy, yet you believe that this altered film turned a lone nut theorist into a conspiracy theorist.

My,you sound angry Perez.Like Pat Speer,my opinion is evolving.I am williing to see past my own prejudices.And opinions,at times.I once thought that the Secret Service was not involved.I no longer hold that view.The Assassination happened,because the Secret Service was not protecting the President.

You could easily say that Prudhomme seems angry (not "sounds angry", as he is not speaking, he's typing), but he is on your side of the argument. So you will pretend that those opposiing your view are angry, while you and those on your side are calm and collected. Not surprisingly, you claim to sense anger in Pat's words, too. Shocker!

In fact, the likelihood of you being angry right now is high, as it was not your plan to tout testimony (McClelland's) that goes against the film alteration theory. Having stated that you believed the film was altered was supposed to be a secret, but now someone called you out on it, due to your reliance on the same film. That would make me angry. But it's ok. Evolving views happen all the time. Even in the case of "gunshot expert" McClelland. Now take a deep breath and relax.

Your referal to me as Ward,made me think you are angry,unless you always use Surnames.I usually try to be polite,but when someone forgets their manners,I can do likewise.Hence Perez.

Perez sounds more polite to me than being called by my first name. Keep it up!

If you addressed me has Mr Ward,Perez,as you like to be called.That would be formal,but acceptable.If you called me Mr Malcolm Ward.That would seem formal but acceptable.If you said Malcolm,informal,but acceptable.But just saying Ward,its a bit like from someone like a Teacher in School or a Officer in the Army.A put down by someone trying to assert their authority,in that situation,as a child or a private,not much you can say back.But from a normal adult,to a normal adult,just the use of a Surname,is usually a sign of arrogance or anger.

In of which,you have shown yourself to be very capable.So if you insist.Keep it up,but it seems like you are now trying to detract from the debate.

At the end of the day,it was not me that said the thing that angered you,I was just,the messenger.So if you want to keep up your conspiracy theory on me,or my motives,that is entirely your choice and you are also very wrong.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Malcolm Ward

[Robert Prudhomme]

I, for one, will no longer be responding to Pat Speer's posts. By responding to him, I believe we are only providing him a stage for spouting his nonsensical drivel.

[Malcolm Ward]

What if the Parkland doctors did not see this small wound? Would we be required to believe that Mr. Robinson was not telling the truth about it?

McLelland once claimed to have seen a small wound in the "left temple." Even if you argue that he meant "right temple," McClelland added in 1963 to the St. Louis Post Dispatch (See Speer, ch. 18d): ""I am fully satisfied that the two bullets that hit him were from behind."

In a separate post in this thread, someone dismisses criticism of the Parkland doctors and nurses on the basis that they are "gunshot experts" whose word should be trusted. Do you trust the statement above? Did he suddenly become a non-expert when he made that statement?

DALLAS (CBS 11 NEWS) - Friday marks fifty years since President John Fitzgerald Kennedy was gunned down in Dallas, and interest in the anniversary is high.

Memories are flooding back, especially for the last surviving surgeon who tried to save the President’s life.

“There was no way we could treat him that he could be salvaged,” Dr. Robert McClelland tells CBS 11 News. McClelland and two other surgeons were summoned to Parkland’s ER that fateful Friday.

“Pushed the door open and was horrified to see— the first thing I saw there—was President Kennedy lying on his back on a cart with an operating room light shining down on is bloody head.”

They initially found the President with what appeared to be only a bullet wound to the neck… until McClelland checked his head.

“(I said) ‘My God, have you seen the back of his head?’ And they said, ‘No, we came in just ahead of you.’ And I said, ‘Well, the whole back of his head is missing on the back side.’” McClelland continued, “Well, when I saw that injury to the back of his head, it became apparent to all of us, all three of us who were gathered around the President’s head working on him, that this was a fatal injury.”

Still, Kennedy’s heart was working and he was trying to breathe, according to McClelland. “So he was definitely not dead as you could define absolute death, but he certainly had a fatal wound that could not be repaired. Either then or now, for that matter.”

They worked on his neck wound for five minutes…until his electrocardiogram straight-lined. When the President was declared dead, Dr. McClelland said there were so many unauthorized people in the cubicle that he and another doctor were trapped inside, pinned between the President’s cart and the wall…and they became unwilling witnesses to his last rites.

Mrs. Kennedy-—Jackie–joined the priest, and McClelland says showed no emotion once he told her the rites had been performed.

“She then took a ring from her finger, and put it on the President’s finger, and a ring from his finger and put it on her finger,” he said adding that the President’s foot was lying outside the sheet that covered him. “She stood by his foot for just a moment, then leaned over and kissed his bare foot and walked out of the room.”

McClelland has since found himself at odds with official versions of what happened at Dealey Plaza. He says he was troubled immediately with the wounds. While the one to the President’s neck seemed to come from behind and was likely the work of Lee Harvey Oswald, it appeared the fatal shot to the back of the President’s head was an exit wound. And later when he closely examined the classic Abraham Zapruder film, he decided there had to be a second gunman. “That he (Kennedy) was shot from the front, from the picket fence,” adjoining the plaza.

McClelland knows this runs counter to the accepted, lone gunman reports, but he claims we will likely never know just what happened that day.

Ironically, two days later he tried to save the life of accused gunman Lee Harvey Oswald after Oswald was shot by Jack Ruby. McClelland feels Oswald’s wound could have been repaired but he repeatedly went into cardiac arrest and finally died.

Source:

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2013/11/18/surgeon-who-tried-to-save-jfk-reflects-on-50th-anniversary-of-assassination/

PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL

ADMISSION NOTE

J. F. KENNEDY

DATE AND HOUR 11/22/63 1620

DOCTOR: Carrico

When patient entered Emergency room on ambulance carriage had slow agonal respiratory efforts and scant cardiac beats by auscultation. Two external wounds were noted. One small penetrating wound of ant. neck in lower 1/3. The other wound had avulsed the calvarium and shredded brain tissue present with profuse oozing. No pulse or blood pressure were present. Pupils were dilated and fixed. A cuffed endotracheal tube was inserted and through the laryngoscope a ragged wound of the trachea was seen immediately below the larynx. The tube was passed past the laceration and the cuff inflated. Respiration using the resp assistor on auto-matic were instituted. Concurrently an IV infusion of lactated Ringer solution was begun via catheter placed in right leg and blood was drawn for type and crossmatch. Type O Rh negative blood was obtained as well as hydrocortisone.

In view of tracheal injury and decreased BS a tracheostomy was performed by Dr. Perry and Bilat. chest tubes inserted. A 2^nd bld infusion was begun in left arm. In addition Dr. Jenkins began resp with anesthesia machine, cardiac monitor, and stimulator attached. Solu cortef IV given (300mg), attempt to control slow oozing from cerebral and cerebellar tissue via packs instituted. Despite these measures as well as external cardiac massage, BP never returned and EKG evidence of cardiac activity was never obtained.

Charles J. Carrico M.D

PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL

ADMISSION NOTE

J. F. KENNEDY

DATE AND HOUR 22 Nov 1963 DOCTOR: PERRY

Staff Note

At the time of initial examination, the pt. was noted as non-responsive. The eyes were deviated and the pupils were dilated. A considerable quantity of blood was noted on the patient, the carriage and the floor. A small wound was noted in the midline of the neck, in the lower third anteriorly. It was exuding blood slowly. A large wound of the right posterior cranium was noted, exposing severely lacerated brain. Brain tissue was noted in the blood at the head of the carriage.

Pulse or heartbeat were not detectable but slow spasmodic respiration was noted. An endotracheal tube was in place and respiration was being assisted. An intravenous infusion was being placed in the leg.

At this point I noted that respiration was ineffective and while additional venisections were done to administer fluids and blood, a tracheostomy was effected. A right lateral injury to the trachea was noted. The tracheostomy tube was put in place and the cuff inflated and respiration assisted. Closed chest cardiac massage was instituted after placement of sealed drainage chest tubes, but without benefit. Electrocardiographic evaluation revealed that no detectable electrical activity existed in the heart. Resuscitation attempts were abandoned after the team of physicians determined that the patient had expired.

Malcolm O. Perry, M.D.

1630 hr 22 Nov 1963

PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL

ADMISSION NOTE

DATE AND HOUR NOV 22, 1963 DOCTOR: BAXTER

Note of Attendance to President Kennedy

I was contacted at approx 12:40 that the President was on the way to the emergency room having been shot. On arrival there, I found an endotracheal tube in place with assisted respirations, a left chest tube being inserted and cut downs going in one leg and in the left arm. The President had a wound in the mid-line of the neck. On first observation of the remaining wounds the rt temporal and occipital bones were missing and the brain was lying on the table, with extensive lacerations and contusions. The pupils were fixed and deviated lateral and dilated. No pulse was detectable and respirations were (as noted) being supplied. A tracheotomy was performed by Dr. Perry and I and a chest tube inserted into the right chest (2^nd intercostal space anteriorally). Meanwhile, 2 pts of O neg blood were administered by pump without response. When all of these measures were complete, no heart beat could be detected. Closed chest massage was performed until a cardioscope could be attached which revealed no cardiac activity was obtained. Due to the excessive and irreparable brain damage which was lethal, no further attempt to resuscitate the heart was made.

Charles R. Baxter M.D.

Associate Prof of Surgery

Southwestern Medical School

PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL

ADMISSION NOTE

DATE AND HOUR Nov. 22, 1963 4:45 P.M. DOCTOR: Robert N. McClelland

Statement Regarding Assassination of President Kennedy

At approximately 12:45 PM on the above date I was called from the second floor of Parkland Hospital and went immediately to the Emergency Operating Room. When I arrived President Kennedy was being attended by Drs Malcolm Perry, Charles Baxter, James Carrico, and Ronald Jones. The President was at the time comatose from a massive gunshot wound of the head with a fragment wound of the trachea. An endotracheal tube and assisted respiration was started immediately by Dr. Carrico on Duty in the EOR when the President arrived. Drs. Perry, Baxter, and I then performed a tracheotomy for respiratory distress and tracheal injury and Dr. Jones and Paul Peters inserted bilateral anterior chest tubes for pneumothoracis secondary to the tracheomediastinal injury. Simultaneously Dr. Jones had started 3 cut-downs giving blood and fluids immediately, In spite of this, at 12:55 he was pronounced dead by Dr. Kemp Clark the neurosurgeon and professor of neurosurgery who arrived immediately after I did. The cause of death was due to massive head and brain injury from a gunshot wound of the left temple. He was pronounced dead after external cardiac message failed and ECG activity was gone.

Robert N. McClelland M.D.

Asst. Prof. of Surgery

Southwestern Med.

School of Univ of Tex.

Dallas, Texas

DATE AND HOUR 22 Nov 1963

12:20pm to 13:00 hrs

Called by EOR while standing in (illegible) Laboratory at SWMS. Told that the President had been shot. I arrived at the EOR at 1220 - 1225 and .The President was bleeding profusely from the back of the head. There was a large (3 x 3cm) amount of cerebral tissue present on the cart. There was a smaller amount of cerebellar tissue present also.

A tracheostomy was being performed by Drs. Perry, Baxter and McClelland. Exam of the President showed that an endotracheal tube was in place and respiratory assistance was being given by Dr. Akins and Jenkins. The pupils were dilated, fixed to light and his eyes were deviated outward and the right one downward as as well .

The trach was completed and I adjusted the endotracheal tube a little bit. Blood was present in the oral pharynx. Suction was used to remove this. Levine Catheter was passed into the stomach at this time.

He was (illegible) that I (illegible) no carotid pulse. I immediately began closed chest massage. A pulse was obtained at the carotid and femoral pulse levels.

Dr. Perry then took over the cardiac massage so I could evaluate the head wound.

There was a large wound beginning in the right occiput extending into the parietal region. Much of the skull appeared gone at brief examination. The previously described lacerated brain was present.

By this time an EKG was hooked up. There was no electrical activity of the heart and no respiratory effort - He was pronounced dead at 1300 hrs by me.

W. Kemp Clark

22 Nov 1963 1615 hrs -

The earliest reports say nothing of Kennedy's heart beating for five minutes or more before flat-lining. In fact they say the opposite, that Kennedy's heart had stopped beating altogether by the time they hooked up the EKG.

And not only that, they indicate the doctors knew of the head wound from the beginning. While it's true Carrico handed things off the Perry, is it really likely 1) Carrico failed to mention that oh yeah by the way the back of his head is blasted off, and 2) Perry failed to notice the brain matter on the cart apparent to everyone else?

McClelland's story is just that: a story. Kennedy's heart was not beating for the first five minutes before flat-lining. He (McClelland) was not the first person to notice the head wound. And the wound he observed was not a blow-out wound on the far back of the head as he later would claim...at least for a time. Memories evolve over time--details get re-arranged, the "truth" of what happened gets replaced over time by a story that is emotionally true, etc.

This is not my theory. It is a scientific fact. If you think McClelland is immune to memory degradation for some reason, go ahead.

As for me, I believe McClelland is a good man. His recollections are just not credible.

I mean, how can people claiming McClelland's (latter-day) observations are reliable and proof the President's wounds were altered, not notice that he has for many years claimed the tracheotomy incision shown in the autopsy photos is as he saw it at Parkland? And how is it not hypocritical to claim he's wrong about that, while saying he's undoubtedly right about the head wound?

Pat,I have read a lot of your stuff,both here and on your site.And much of it is pretty good.But I cannot agree with you on everything.We have to think back to the time of 63.The time of dissapering Witnesses,the time of altered statements etc.How much pressure would these Doctors have been under to go along with the official lone nut theory.

It is on record,I believe,that Lyndon Johnson believed there could be a WW111 if the idea that the Russians did it,or a Communist agent.He put pressure on Earl Warren to take the job on the Warren Commission for that very reason.

Could it not be,that these people now speak out,because they no longer see a threat.

At the end of the day,the single bullet theory,is just that,a theory.It is not,nor can be proven 100% as most with most things JFK.

And just for the record,when I said like Pat Speer,my opinion is eveolving.It was not a attack on you.Either you,or someone else,was it John Simpkin,who said Pat Speers theory is evolving.So I used that,in this discussion,on Mr Perez,who seemed to be attacking me,to say,I am not the only one who can change his mind.

And this,"This is not my theory. It is a scientific fact. If you think McClelland is immune to memory degradation for some reason, go ahead."

Everyone who is getting on cannot be put down due to memory.I know many people in their eighties who are as sharp as a button.Thirteen years ago,I was in a bad car crash,something that sticks in your memory.I remember the sunroof sliding shut because of the impact.The internal mirror swivelling.I remember were the crash was,what car I and the other driver was driving.The other drivers name,the direction I was driving and relative speed etc.Because it was a major incident in my life.I would also think,treating JFK,by McClelland would have been a Major event in his life.

[Pat Speer]

The earliest reports say nothing of Kennedy's heart beating for five minutes or more before flat-lining. In fact they say the opposite, that Kennedy's heart had stopped beating altogether by the time they hooked up the EKG.

And not only that, they indicate the doctors knew of the head wound from the beginning. While it's true Carrico handed things off the Perry, is it really likely 1) Carrico failed to mention that oh yeah by the way the back of his head is blasted off, and 2) Perry failed to notice the brain matter on the cart apparent to everyone else?

McClelland's story is just that: a story. Kennedy's heart was not beating for the first five minutes before flat-lining. He (McClelland) was not the first person to notice the head wound. And the wound he observed was not a blow-out wound on the far back of the head as he later would claim...at least for a time. Memories evolve over time--details get re-arranged, the "truth" of what happened gets replaced over time by a story that is emotionally true, etc.

This is not my theory. It is a scientific fact. If you think McClelland is immune to memory degradation for some reason, go ahead.

As for me, I believe McClelland is a good man. His recollections are just not credible.

I mean, how can people claiming McClelland's (latter-day) observations are reliable and proof the President's wounds were altered, not notice that he has for many years claimed the tracheotomy incision shown in the autopsy photos is as he saw it at Parkland? And how is it not hypocritical to claim he's wrong about that, while saying he's undoubtedly right about the head wound?

Pat,I have read a lot of your stuff,both here and on your site.And much of it is pretty good.But I cannot agree with you on everything.We have to think back to the time of 63.The time of dissapering Witnesses,the time of altered statements etc.How much pressure would these Doctors have been under to go along with the official lone nut theory.

It is on record,I believe,that Lyndon Johnson believed there could be a WW111 if the idea that the Russians did it,or a Communist agent.He put pressure on Earl Warren to take the job on the Warren Commission for that very reason.

Could it not be,that these people now speak out,because they no longer see a threat.

At the end of the day,the single bullet theory,is just that,a theory.It is not,nor can be proven 100% as most with most things JFK.

And just for the record,when I said like Pat Speer,my opinion is eveolving.It was not a attack on you.Either you,or someone else,was it John Simpkin,who said Pat Speers theory is evolving.So I used that,in this discussion,on Mr Perez,who seemed to be attacking me,to say,I am not the only one who can change his mind.

And this,"This is not my theory. It is a scientific fact. If you think McClelland is immune to memory degradation for some reason, go ahead."

Everyone who is getting on cannot be put down due to memory.I know many people in their eighties who are as sharp as a button.Thirteen years ago,I was in a bad car crash,something that sticks in your memory.I remember the sunroof sliding shut because of the impact.The internal mirror swivelling.I remember were the crash was,what car I and the other driver was driving.The other drivers name,the direction I was driving and relative speed etc.Because it was a major incident in my life.I would also think,treating JFK,by McClelland would have been a Major event in his life.

To be clear, Malcolm, memory degradation occurs in everyone, and is caused by a number of factors. Far more important than the age of the witness is the age of the memory. In other words, If a mother of 80 and a daughter of 60 have a disagreement over something that happened 50 years before, there's no real basis, of what I am aware, to say the daughter is more likely to be correct.

One of the factors is the nature of story-telling. When we describe a personal experience to others, we don't describe it from the standpoint of a tape recorder, but from our own subjective position. So the story is told for maximum emotional impact, focusing on details which might be of interest to the listener. Thus, people will often become more and more central to the events they describe. Thus, we now have two nurses who may not have even been in Trauma Room One claiming they had a doctor lift up Kennedy's head and show him his head wound. Thus, we have Dr. McClelland not only claiming he noticed the large head wound, but was the first one to notice and tell everyone else. I mean, I would LOVE to see someone try to reconstruct the events at Parkland, and measure how long various people were in the room etc. Once done, I suspect we'd find that many of the so-called back of the head witnesses were only in Kennedy's presence for a minute at most, and were down at the other end of the room, with no opportunity whatsoever to study a head wound at the top or back of the head.

As far as your supposition the Parkland witnesses were pressured, etc. Yes, this is true. There was some pressure put on them...to say the throat wound could be an exit.

The exact location of the head wound in the Parkland statements, amazingly enough, was not considered a problem by the Warren Commission in 1964, and only bubbled to the surface in 1966 via Lifton. When one compares the 1963 statements of the doctors with their 1964 testimony, one finds as many or more references to the back of the head and cerebellum in 1964 than in 1963. There's also this. Commission Exhibits 386 and 388 showed a hole on the back of the head. IF the commission was as concerned about the head wound as they were about the back wound, then why did the doctors have drawings created showing a wound on the back of the head, inches rearward of where it is shown in the autopsy photos? I mean, they moved the back wound up to a more convenient location for the drawings, why wouldn't they have moved the head wound as well?

It is my contention, then, that one can best understand what happened with the head wound, when one first studies what happened with the back wound. That was the approach in my video series and I still believe it today.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Pat Speer

[Andric Perez]

144 replies later, nobody in this thread has bothered to discuss the research cited by Speer proving that looking at a human head upside-down (as in the case of any doctor who observed the wound while standing behind JFK's head in Parkland) significantly impairs one's ability to tell the location of features relative to the others. Commenters keep asking Speer why many witnesses placed the head in the occipital region, when they could have easily found out (by reading the website patspeer.com) that Speer explains why he thinks these location estimates were wrong.

Similarly, the findings quoted by Speer proving that people have a symmetry bias (which may explain why some witnesses drew the wound in the exact center of the head) have been quoted by zero people in this thread.

There may be several explanations as to why commenters are ignoring these topics:

1) They didn't read Speer's chapter because they thought it's too long to read.

2) They didn't read Speer's chapter because they thought it was too boring.

3) They are so confident that the location is in the back of the head that they thought, "I don't need to read anything new. I know what happened."

Or a combination of the above.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Andric Perez

[Vince Palamara]

Andric- I am man enough to admit it: Pat's work is brilliant and troubling. You can tell it has struck a nerve with many of us.

The paradox is: Pat still believes there was a conspiracy and shots from the front...a good thing.

The only questions I have are:

a) where EXACTLY was the large defect? Even the Humes autopsy report mentions the occipital area (while a few Parkland doctors claim to have held the head up and so forth)?

what is Pat's take on Crenshaw?

[Robert Prudhomme]

144 replies later, nobody in this thread has bothered to discuss the research cited by Speer proving that looking at a human head upside-down (as in the case of any doctor who observed the wound while standing behind JFK's head in Parkland) significantly impairs one's ability to tell the location of features relative to the others. Commenters keep asking Speer why many witnesses placed the head in the occipital region, when they could have easily found out (by reading the website patspeer.com) that Speer explains why he thinks these location estimates were wrong.

Similarly, the findings quoted by Speer proving that people have a symmetry bias (which may explain why some witnesses drew the wound in the exact center of the head) have been quoted by zero people in this thread.

There may be several explanations as to why commenters are ignoring these topics:

1) They didn't read Speer's chapter because they thought it's too long to read.

2) They didn't read Speer's chapter because they thought it was too boring.

3) They are so confident that the location is in the back of the head that they thought, "I don't need to read anything new. I know what happened."

Or a combination of the above.

If I stand on my head and my big toe is bleeding, are you going to tell everyone I have a nosebleed?

Please, do not insult our intelligence.

[Vince Palamara]

I am confused LOL- the original statements still contain back-of-the-head evidence

Edited December 23, 2013 by Vince Palamara

[Robert Prudhomme]

Amen, Vince. 'Nuff said.