David Lifton Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 (edited) So let me get this right, <snip> Thanks for responding... Best, Bernie You're welcome Bernie... in terms of getting it right... I don't think you've mirrored what I said: The NYC school records in the WCR Exhibits shows Lee as 5'4" and 115lbs.. The photo I posted was to show you that over 18 months later the boy is no where near 5'4" tall, nor is he strapping or large... The boy on the right, Lee, was... You kept asking how they would know these boys would turn out looking so similar... As I posted, the realization came to me that they didn't... that the pairing of these two happens in the Marines, while they are in the hands of their government... Whoever HARVEY was... he had his own history, the people who saw one then the other years later were amazed at the tranformation, bot Lee and his mother... her own sister, his own brother With regards to BJHS... I wonder if you;ve done this analysis? The transfer date was 1/13/54.. Each of the school years has a FALL, SPRING and TOTAL We have two grade cards from the FALL of the 53-54 school year... yet it states he did not start attending until January 13, 1954. On one card there is 1 absence, the other has 2 for that same time period.... According to this article from NYC the school year was starting on Sept 14, 1953.. and ending June 29th. Would this be the same for NOLA? I was unable to find the dates for NOLA, yet we can make an assupmtion and see where that takes us.... We agree that this child attended all of the SPRING semester... total possible attendance 90 days, as you posted... 90 days prior to June 29th is February 23rd... so, ok... subtract for a few holidays (7 for spring break is now Feb 15th, and a few single day holidays) We are now at Tuesday, Feb 9th as the START of the spring semester. which may make sense since LEE starts on Jan 13, 1954... attends the end of the FALL semester in PE and Science, and gets two 70's. 90 days prior to Feb 9 is Oct 6th... remove Xmas holiday and Thanksgiving plus a few single day holidays and we are at Sept 16th... very reasonable starting date given what was written about NYC schools... With a few exceptions... 1) 809 French street (changed from 757 French by the city) was Lillian Murrat's place, Margeurite's sister. In February 1954, LEE and Mother lived on French street... and then moved to 1454 St. Mary's - Marge's friend Myrtle Evans' multi-room house she was renting to all sorts of people. (for some amazing testimony please read Mr and Mrs Evans' account of the LOUD and boisterous LEE as compared to the descriptions of HARVEY at the time) On problem... HARVEY and his caretaker were living at 126 Exchange at the same time.... which was confirmed by Myra DeRouse, Dorothy Duvik and Ed Voebel... and this photo of MO on the left from the National Archives taken at 126 Exchange states on the back: "NO, La, 1954" the photo on the right is also taken at 126 Exchange but in 1956 and is of the real MO. On February 19, 1954 the tall, nice-looking Marguerite Oswald began working at Burt's Shoe Store at 1117 Canal Street, and listed her address as 1454 St. Marys Street Voebel further stated that he first met Oswald in 1954 or 1955 and knew him for about 1.5 years. Voebel stated that he took music lessons at Werleins on Canal Street and would go to Oswalds home at 126 Exchange Place to see Oswald on these dates. Ed Voebel was one of the few people in this history who became aware of the two different boys... as you can see... there is some evidence that a person calling himself HARVEY Oswald was seperate and ditinct from LEE... In my working backwards scenario, this DOES NOT ACCOUNT for them being manipulated during that time... so as I've always said, knowing the extent ot hese plans and the plans of say, Angleton, is beyond my comprehension.. The evidence offered to assist in the conviction of Oswald focuses very heavily on timeperiods which exhibit conflict... why should we care about Oswald in 7th grade? Was Sihan's life, or James Earl Ray's picked apart in the same manner and depth? Not even close... so I have to ask you... what was the point of this in-depth, in-detail analysis of Oswald's Junior High & High School days in Ft Worth, NOLA and NYC which in turn brought us to his military days which also are filled with conflict.... 2) Myra DeRouse and the entire SPRING of 54 semester, she is not in contact with LEE, but Harvey... and his "mother" who was supposedly workin at a bar in the Quarter at the same time LEE's mother is working at BURT SHOES. 3) When we move forward to 54-55 grade cards... we find they do not match the Cumulative record at all regarding the dates of attendence... Furthermore... there are 180 days AT LEAST, in a school year... 12 + 168 is 180... suggesting that these days are added together to come to a total for the year, NOT that 168 was the total number of days in the year... but only those he attended... does that matter in relation to 53-54... should there be some consistencey there... ? I guess that's up to how you interpret it... Bernie... my job is not to convince you of anything... but to get you to look at the evidence yourself... and let you correlate it yourself - don't take my word or anyone else's... If you feel there are reasonable explanations for it all... so be it. If you feel you are the H&L cop for the forum and its your duty to dispell what was offered, reading the book and scanning the support documents might be in your best interest... I did not live the 10+ years Armstrong did researching and compiling this info... I only spent the last year digging into it, finding conflict after conflict with the evidence the FBI and USMilitary provided.... When we look at all the other places the FBI, Military and WCR offers evidence which is easily proven to be inauthentic, created, altered and/or completely misleading AND one of the lead lawyers expresses his concern over the inaccuracy or the FBI and SS reports, only to be shut down... one has the gut feeling that something our of the ordinary was up... I tend to lean toward an organzied effort NOT to allow us to understand the true history of the man Ruby killed... that may change in time as I continue to search and uncover... and as our government releases documents related to a LONE NUT/No-Conspiracy that were classified for 75 years for SOME reason... I'm more than willing to be 100% wrong... yet until you address the totality of the evidence which pieces together the lies and deceit in order to rewrite history... MY POV will continue to be that there is something there with H&L... and that it is more important than we understand... Beyond that all I can do is wish you luck in your understanding and your research efforts to explain that tragic event. Peace DJ David Josephs: I do not really wish to pursue the H & L business, but I'd like to address the following quote from your post (and inform you of certain data that I have which I believe would contradict this entire H and L hypothesis: YOUR QUOTE: One problem... HARVEY and his caretaker were living at 126 Exchange at the same time.... which was confirmed by Myra DeRouse, Dorothy Duvik and Ed Voebel... and this photo of MO on the left from the National Archives taken at 126 Exchange states on the back: "NO, La, 1954" the photo on the right is also taken at 126 Exchange but in 1956 and is of the real MO. UNQUOTE As far as I know (and in my very strong opinion) the person living at 126 Exchange Place was Lee Harvey Oswald and his mother, Marguerite.(and certainly not some "caretaker"). Aside from any data in the Warren Report, please be aware of the following: Around 1990, I met someone who was a good friend of Eddie Voebel, and--consequently--also got to know Lee Oswald (in the same way that if I am "best friends" with Joe Smith, then I will likely get to become acquainted with some of Joe Smith's friends). This person who was "best friends" with Voebel--call him "Vince Morton"--knew Lee Oswald (because he was "best friends" with Voebel) for about a year immediately after LHO moved to 126 Exchange Place in the fall of 1954. So Vince Morton knew Oswald for both terms of that school year--i.e., fall of 1954, Spring of 1955. He was also a member of the CAP and his membership there overlapped with Oswald and Voebel. Oswald (as you probably know) joined the CAP on 7/25/55. This fellow was already a member when these two joined. I learned all this in a 1990 telephone interview. Some years later, in 1998, I visited New Orleans, and met with Morton--spending a day or two with him. We went over the whole thing again--once on audio (at a long dinner) --and then on camera. He brought documents with him to authenticate who he is--and I found one mention of him at NARA, but it was not properly followed up by the FBI and/or SS. In other words: he exists, and is part of the historical record. But his knowledge of Oswald (and Voebel) wasn't followed up properly. My own conclusion: Vince Morton knew LHO in the fall of 1954 and Spring o 1955 when he was in the ninth grade at Beauregard. He also very likely knew him during the summer of 1955 (when LHO joined the CAP). I have reason to believe he did not know Lee very much beyond the very early fall of 1955. Now, about what I learned from this person ("Vince Morton"): 1) In fact, the three of them (Lee, Eddie and Vince) would hang out together, at night. 2) This person--who I am calling "Vince Morton"--told me that he and Eddie would go by 126 Exchange Place (in Vince or Eddie's car, I forget which) and Lee would meet them by shimmying down a pole that was outside the window of the apartment at 126 Exchange Place (in order to get out of the house without his mother knowing). 3) He then described some of the things they did. 4) When Lee returned (late at night), he would have to return via the front door, and then encounter his mother, who would ball him out for these activities--all of which was witnessed by Vince. My initial interview with this person was over the phone. But some years later (1998), I went to New Orleans, and we met in person, and did a detailed audio interview and a filmed interview. On that trip, we went by 126 Exchange Place. To my surprise (and his, too), the pole adjacent to the wall of the building was still there. Why? Because that area of the French Quarter had been declared as having special "landmark" status, similar to Dealey Plaza (by Federal law). Anyway, I have color photographs (and film) documenting all this. (He passed away in 2002). Bottom line: Lee and Eddie and this person (who I am calling Vince) hung out together. Vince (of course) knew Lee as Lee Oswald; further, he was very good friends with Eddie. (Because the three went out at night, with Lee shimmying down that pole, and then returning much later and getting bawled out by his mother, he also met Lee's mother). This person was very important to my understanding of Lee's teen years because (a) of the reading Lee was doing at the time (and he was a big fan of Tolstoy) and (b ) because he was a John Wayne fan, and they sometimes went to the movies and his favorite movie star was John Wayne and his favorite movie was "Sands of Iwo Jima." In short, this witness knew Lee Oswald, knew Eddie Voebel, and had multiple personal encounters with Marguerite Oswald. When I conducted these interviews, I had no detailed knowledge of this H and L theory, but I believe that, if you were to see these interview records, they would pose a considerable problem for any proponent of the H and L theory. As I said, my interest was in achieving a better understanding of who Oswald was: his personality, his interests, what he was reading etc. Needless to say, and this is from my point of view, this data only goes further, in my opinion, to fleshing out the true picture of the teenage Oswald. DSL 3/15/14 4:15 AM Los Angeles, California Edited March 15, 2014 by David Lifton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Gaal Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 (edited) Around 1990, I met someone who was a good friend of Eddie Voebel,...// Lifton ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++How did you find out about Morton ? What/were did he work ?? NARA online just didnt find him ?? THANKS sg Edited March 15, 2014 by Steven Gaal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 (edited) Around 1990, I met someone who was a good friend of Eddie Voebel, and--consequently--also got to know Lee Oswald (in the same way that if I am "best friends" with Joe Smith, then I will likely get to become acquainted with some of Joe Smith's friends). This person who was "best friends" with Voebel--call him "Vince Morton"--knew Lee Oswald (because he was "best friends" with Voebel) for about a year immediately after LHO moved to 126 Exchange Place in the fall of 1954. So Vince Morton knew Oswald for both terms of that school year--i.e., fall of 1954, Spring of 1955. He was also a member of the CAP and his membership there overlapped with Oswald and Voebel. "Vince Morton" is a fictitious name to protect him..?. his confiding in you remains very suspicious... I have the complete list of those who attended BJHS in 53-54 and 54-55... Voebel does mention a name, but I will not post it as there appears to be some concern over it.... Not possible you got snowed David...? What do you suppose DeBrueys was doing interviewing all of Oswald's classmates from 1953-54 and 1954-55 yet only asked about the 54-55 year... and was able to write a report by Dec 2.... they gonna break the case wide open with these all important interviews after he's already dead? As far as I know (and in my very strong opinion) well understood David... if you took a moment and read the FBI interviews of Oswald's classmates you'd see that not a single one is asked about 53-54, but only 9th grade - 54-55 While those who do recall 53-54 and are shown HARVEY's picture & don't recognize him... In April 1955, LEE and MO move to Exchange... HARVEY Oswald's records at Stripling JHS from Sept-Oct 1954 are given to the FBI... that LEE HARVEY OSWALD had attended her English classes from September, 1954 until June, 1955, And she explained she was at a loss to explain that she had no recollection of either the name OSWALD or identification of his facial. characteristics, from representations of his photographs XXXX stated that although school records indicated that she taught LEE HARVEY OSWALD, General Math during the school - - term of 1954 that she could not recall OSWALD as a pupil in her class. It appears you have much to learn about the subject matter here before you can offer "informed" opinions... It's well accepted that we all have "strong" opinions. Edited March 16, 2014 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) [David Lifton wrote:] Around 1990, I met someone who was a good friend of Eddie Voebel, and--consequently--also got to know Lee Oswald (in the same way that if I am "best friends" with Joe Smith, then I will likely get to become acquainted with some of Joe Smith's friends). This person who was "best friends" with Voebel--call him "Vince Morton"--knew Lee Oswald (because he was "best friends" with Voebel) for about a year immediately after LHO moved to 126 Exchange Place in the fall of 1954. So Vince Morton knew Oswald for both terms of that school year--i.e., fall of 1954, Spring of 1955. He was also a member of the CAP and his membership there overlapped with Oswald and Voebel. "Vince Morton" is a fictitious name to protect him..? His confiding in you remains very suspicious... [...] Yes, David Lifton, don't you realize that anyone (whether or not he's been given a fictitious name by you to protect their identity from "researchers") who has the audacity to claim to have known Lee Harvey Oswald during such a time period and at such a place as to contradict the official L&H theology is, by definition, very suspicious indeed? LOL Keep up the good work! --Tommy Edited March 16, 2014 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) Gee Tommy... "Some guy who told me he was a friend of Ed's MUST have known Oswald....and therefore nothing H&L uncovers is true..." you being a parrot... who can't take the time to read a book or open a link and can only critique that which you have no knowledge of.... rather than offer anything resembling intelligence must make you so proud to contribute here... Below are links to the files resulting from 10+ years of work... but please do NOT lift your head up from your grazing and learn how foolish you sound with every smiley face post ... your Honey BooBoo act is very entertaining and provides the much needed comic relief on what could be a serious educational site http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/ref/collection/po-arm/id/42986 http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/ref/collection/po-arm/id/27534 (Ed Voebel) Polly want a cracker.... Edited March 16, 2014 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) Gee Tommy... "Some guy who told me he was a friend of Ed's MUST have known Oswald....and therefore nothing H&L uncovers is true..." you being a parrot... who can't take the time to read a book or open a link and can only critique that which you have no knowledge of.... rather than offer anything resembling intelligence must make you so proud to contribute here... Below are links to the files resulting from 10+ years of work... but please do NOT lift your head up from your grazing and learn how foolish you sound with every smiley face post ... your Honey BooBoo act is very entertaining and provides the much needed comic relief on what could be a serious educational site http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/ref/collection/po-arm/id/42986 http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/ref/collection/po-arm/id/27534 (Ed Voebel) Polly want a cracker.... Yes, DJ. You are truly a bastion of maturity, reason, and civility. I's painfully apparent that your ten years spent wandering in the wilderness of the H&L "theory" has qualified you as quite a JFK assassination "expert." Question for the expert: Did the Bad Guys decide to start mingling Harvey's and Lee's backgrounds (due to their strong facial resemblance) in 1952 when H and L were only twelve or thirteen years old and their faces were still changing, or did they wait four or five more years, you know, just to be sure? --Tommy bumped and edited with a question for Steven Gaal: Steven, Do you think the photos below show two different women or the same woman? Edited March 16, 2014 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Gaal Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 You are truly a font of rationality, reason, and civility, and it's painfully apparent that your ten years of immersion in the H&L "theory" has qualified you as quite an "expert." Question: Did the bad guys decide to start mingling Harvey's and Lee's backgrounds, based on their strong facial resemblance, as early as 1952 when Lee was only twelve or thirteen years old, or did they wait four or five more years to do that? --Tommy ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++1860s ....1860s .....the science of the matter existed a long time. ******************************************* Two of the last published broad reviews on the topic of adult craniofacial age-related changes were made over 20 years ago, and discussed studies spanning from the 1860s to the early 1980s [1–2]. Information on craniofacial age-related changes forms the basis for the forensic study or practice of facial reconstruction, adult facial age-progression, and automated face recognition technologies. ( http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.174.1717&rep=rep1&type=pdf ) ======================================================= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_surgery additional option two +++++++++++++++++++++++++ truly a font of rationality, reason, and civility, and it's painfully apparent that your ten years of immersion in the H&L "theory" has qualified you as quite an "expert." --Tommy (SARCASM by Tommy,GAAL) =============================== Tommy " the bad guys (did it,GAAL)." (TOMMY) ...... yes the people that blew JFK's brains out in front of his wife ARE BAD GUYS...(GAAL) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) Gee Tommy... "Some guy who told me he was a friend of Ed's MUST have known Oswald....and therefore nothing H&L uncovers is true..." you being a parrot... who can't take the time to read a book or open a link and can only critique that which you have no knowledge of.... rather than offer anything resembling intelligence must make you so proud to contribute here... Below are links to the files resulting from 10+ years of work... but please do NOT lift your head up from your grazing and learn how foolish you sound with every smiley face post ... your Honey BooBoo act is very entertaining and provides the much needed comic relief on what could be a serious educational site http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/ref/collection/po-arm/id/42986 http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/ref/collection/po-arm/id/27534 (Ed Voebel) Polly want a cracker.... Yes, DJ. You are truly a bastion of maturity, reason, and civility. I's painfully apparent that your ten years spent wandering in the wilderness of the H&L "theory" has qualified you as quite a JFK assassination "expert." Question for the expert: Did the Bad Guys decide to start mingling Harvey's and Lee's backgrounds (due to their strong facial resemblance) in 1952 when H and L were only twelve or thirteen years old and their faces were still changing, or did they wait four or five more years, you know, just to be sure? --Tommy bumped and edited with a question for Steven Gaal: Steven, Do you think the photos below show two different women or the same woman? Hint: Look at the distinctive "V" shape of the eyebrow ridges and the eyebrows near the nose. Harder to make out in the bottom photo, but still there. Also note the pointy / knobby chin in both photos. PS Yes, Steven. The people who killed JFK were bad guys. (Your grasp of the obvious is remarkable.) bumped for Gaal Edited March 16, 2014 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Laverick Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 So we now have two proponents of the idea with completely alternative stories. It seems you guys simply put your hand in the hat and bring out whatever is likely to 'win' the discussion. Steven seems to think that the science was there from the 1860''s to pick two people from different countries and different families and guarantee they will emerge through adolescence looking identical. Brilliant! Are there no depths to the utter stupidity this theory has to drag along with it? But just in case we write that off as the kind of creepy oddball nonsense that apparently passes for research around here, he then kindly offers us a page from wiki on cosmetic surgery. No wonder people write us all off as freaks and imbeciles...! You're lagging behind the script Steven. Your guru has changed the story. It didn't now start from the early 50's; it started in the late 50's according to a recent "epiphany" by David Josephs, so no need for 1860's technology nor a page from wiki to explain this phenomenon. There's simply no need. The top brass has changed tactics...Come on. catch up! I'm going to brush up on some Victorian literature...to see if I can get to the bottom of quantum mechanics...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Gaal Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Are there no depths to the utter stupidity this theory has to drag along with it? But just in case we write that off as the kind of creepy oddball nonsense that apparently passes for research around here, he then kindly offers us a page from wiki on cosmetic surgery. No wonder people write us all off as freaks and imbeciles...! Bernie Laverick ############# Insult A+ ,deep thought F- (Gaal) ############# The Man Who Makes Faces ROBERT BARRON IS THE MAN WHO MAKES FACES. FOR TWO DECADES HE SERVED AROUND THE WORLD IN THE CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY WHERE HE WAS KNOWN AS A MASTER OF DISGUISE. NOW RETIRED FROM SPYING, BARRON HAS TURNED TO HELPING PEOPLE WHO HAVE LOST FINGERS, HANDS, EYES AND FACES IN ACCIDENTS AND FIRES.THE FACE ON BARRON'S WORK DESK WILL GO TO FIRE VICTIM JIM ALEXANDER. PHOTO FROM EDIT INTERNATIONAL.By Ron LaytnerEdit InternationalCopyright 2009Robert Barron is the world’s greatest disguise master. He worked for the CIA for dozens of years protecting, hiding and rescuing American spies and defectors in the Soviet Union and Communist China.Mission Impossible movies show secret agents instantly changing identities by pulling a soft plastic mask over their head, complete with hair. But in real life turning a hunted spy or escaping political dissident takes more work. In the most challenging missions they called on Robert Barron.Barron started out as an enlisted man in the US Army and because of his art talent was sent to a Pentagon magazine. The young artist, whose paintings were often mistaken for photographs, didn’t want to park at the back of the endless Pentagon parking lot.He forged a perfect General rank auto pass and parked near the building. Found out, young Robert was fired from the magazine. But the US government never let’s a great talent go to waste. Men in black suits took him away to CIA Headquarters where he was recruited for his devious skills.Barron spent years in special classes for identity switching, learning how to completely alter a person’s appearance by crafting imitation ears, noses, eyebrows, moustaches and wigs. Barron learned how to interchange the colors of skin on black, white and Oriental spies. He learned how to make silicone look exactly like living skin.After a long, distinguished career, the details of which are still classified, Barron retired with a CIA medal and the ability to make the best facial disguises the world has ever seen. Still young, he wondered how he could harness his dark arts to help more than just spies.He began to visit plastic surgeons who worked to fix the mistakes of nature, accidents and fires. He watched them cut away living tissue from the disfigured and graft on missing noses, ears and chins. And he realized, he said, what to him was a frightening truth - plastic surgeons did more harm than good. And he realized he could do a better job.And so Baron invaded the turf of Plastic surgeons with the precision of a spymaster and quickly became known as “The Man Who Makes Faces”.“In the CIA I gave people different identities to avoid being captured. What I do now is exactly the same except I don’t hide people any longer. Now I take people who are hidden and bring them into the light.“My work is so realistic and I feel such compassion for my patients that I put every ounce of my artistic ability into making my changes look as life-like as possible.”He will not allow patients to leave his office if their prosthesis doesn’t pass his close scrutiny. One man phoned to complain his barber had cut off the tiny hairs on the edge of his false ear.“I told him to rejoice because even his barber couldn’t tell his ear was not real and that I’d make him a new one. That’s how good the work must be.”One of his early triumphs was a complete face for Jim Alexander of Detroit who was trapped in a car fire that burned away his entire face. Jim survived dozens of operations and painful skin grafts, was blind from his injuries and lived as a hidden recluse, not wanting to hear children scream at his sight.Barron fashioned a complete face. And after many operations Jim’s sight was restored. He remained Barron’s happiest achievement until, one day, five years later, Jim Alexander fell asleep smoking in bed and burned to death.Since then Barron has also made ears and noses for Pentagon men and women burned in the September 11th attack on America. He has also worked free for survivors of the two World Trade Centers who lived but lost ears, faces and hands.Among his strangest cases is an abused woman from Pakistan, victim of a Muslin ‘honor’ slaying that went wrong when she didn’t die.Zahida Parveen, a beautiful 24-year-old woman was six months pregnant when she was attacked and tortured by her abusive and jealous barber husband after he thought she looked at another man over her veil.He took her home, stripped her naked, tied her hands and feet, hung her upside down on a rope he had fastened earlier to a pipe in the ceiling, gouged out her eyes with a metal rod, then, using his barber’s straight razor, sliced off his wife’s nose and ears. He tried to grab her tongue but couldn’t catch hold of it. Then he cut her down so his blind wife could hear him take her children away..The attack, one of about 1,000 mostly unpunished yearly honor killings in Pakistan, according to the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan, was so horrible public outrage caused her husband to be arrested. He was given 14 years in one of the world’s harshest prisons.Though she survived what upset Zahida most was most upset by her little children screaming every time they saw her destroyed face.Zahida was flown to Washington where she met plastic surgeons, Craig Dufresne, Michael Singer and ex spy Robert Barron.She was worked on for six hours. The doctors made her acrylic glass eyes and Robert Barron replaced her nose and ears. She returned to Pakistan, blind, but content, with her children willing to hug her again.In recent years Barron has found himself gravitating more and more to copying ears and noses. He is crusading against plastic surgeons whom he says prey on innocents.Today, at his offices in Ashburn, Virginia near Washington, DC, Barron says, “Plastic surgeons are not your friends. No plastic surgeon on earth can copy body parts from human tissue and make it look natural..“They operate on the patient, take cartilage from their body and try to fashion a perfect ear out of human tissue. It often looks like a cauliflower. They know the outcome is always going to fall short. To me, ear reconstructive surgery is criminal.“Families pay as much as a quarter million dollars. They don’t realize there is an alternative, My price is usually less than $10,000.”Robert Barron makes prosthetic ears that cannot be recognized as anything but natural and perfect. He starts off by making a mirror image of a person’s one good ear, reversing it and making a mold. Then he matches their skin color, adds in tiny hairs, and even makes a winter and a summer tanned ear so the patient looks normal in any season.Barron says he saves patients a lot of painful depression.. “Restoring their faces brings faith and quality into their lives. My job is to fulfill their expectations. My heart goes out to parents who have made the wrong decision. They should be forewarned about the limits of plastic surgery.”“I could be in Hollywood making millions. They begged me to come with my techniques but I refused. The money is not important. My purpose in life is helping others.“After all my years in the CIA I have never heard again from the people whose lives I saved. But patients in my new life call me all the time. I know every one of them by their first names and they call me and send me Christmas cards thanking me for returning their lives.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Laverick Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) "It would be interesting if the Harvey and Lee project was a covert project using genetics to form two identical twins in different mothers who were chosen because of their resemblance with the intention of penetrating the iron curtain for espionage." Albert Doyle DPF And yet another spadeful of undiluted idiocy. So we have the following as explanations... 1 - Lee and Marguerite were genetically modified... - A Doyle 2 - There was extensive facial surgery on one of them (or both...?) - S Gaal 3 - The technology for such subterfuge existed in the 1860's - S Gaal 4 - "11 yr olds often grow up looking similar" - DJ 5 - None of the above because David J has now declared that they didn't need to. They worked backwords from the late 50's AFTER they realised the similarity. I'm sure there will be other explanations. After all the originator of this thread has added nothing of substance (as usual), save lashing out at anyone who disagrees with her (as usual). Martin promised me he would give an answer but it never came.(as usual) As for David Healy, this guy used to regulalrly get his bottom spanked by Lamson on this forum. When Lamson can repeatedly spank your botty you just know it's probably time to give up!! Any answers David, other than insults...? Edited March 16, 2014 by Bernie Laverick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Laverick Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 What is it with the Harvey & Lee flock and their garish use of fonts...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Laverick Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Are there no depths to the utter stupidity this theory has to drag along with it? But just in case we write that off as the kind of creepy oddball nonsense that apparently passes for research around here, he then kindly offers us a page from wiki on cosmetic surgery. No wonder people write us all off as freaks and imbeciles...! Bernie Laverick ############# Insult A+ ,deep thought F- (Gaal) ############# The Man Who Makes FacesROBERT BARRON IS THE MAN WHO MAKES FACES..... Is this the official Harvey Lee explanation then...? David J are you reading this? He's pulling your theory to pieces here and he's on your side! I am actually embarrassed for you all. How humiliating! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) What is it with the Harvey & Lee flock and their garish use of fonts...? Bernie, Don't you realize that they have to "spice up" their posts with lots of upper case letters and bold text? If they didn't, we "morons" might not notice the points they're trying to make! It's like someone's alternately poking you in the chest with their index finger and dramatically waving their arms in the air to impress upon you how right they are. --Tommy Edited March 16, 2014 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Gaal Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) There was extensive facial surgery on one of them (or both...?) - (Laverick) (Gaal) NO ,There may have been extensive facial surgery on one of them (or both) Never said extensive. Seems your using debating tactics and not trying to search for the truth. I said that it was a additional option (option) to create a pair. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The technology for such subterfuge existed in the 1860's - S Gaal. No,never said it existed in 1860s ,but said the study of such started in 1860s. SO Yes people have been studying ( trying to predict) peoples facial changes since the 1860s. Another debating tactic by attributing things to me I didnt say. The reference i gave was an academic paper. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- wiki below Bernard Montgomery/Clifton James and "Tex" Banwell (1944) The genuine 'Monty' Perhaps the most famous political decoy, soldier M.E. Clifton James successfully impersonated General Bernard Montgomery ("Monty") for intelligence purposes during World War II.[6] In 1940, James acted in an Army production called When Knights Were Bold and his photograph appeared in an Army newspaper with a remark about how much he resembled General Montgomery. As a result, he was approached by actor David Niven in May 1944. Niven, then a Colonel in the Army Kinematograph Section, told James he was wanted to impersonate "Monty", as this would allow Montgomery to be somewhere else, thus confusing the Germans. James had to learn Montgomery's gestures, mannerisms, gait and voice and had to give up smoking. Because James had lost his right-hand middle finger in the First World War, a realistic replacement was made. Even his wife had to be deceived and was both kept in the dark and sent back to Leicester. Once he was trained, his trip as "Monty" was to Gibraltar and from there to Algiers. "Monty's" presence succeeded in confusing the Germans in regard to the invasion plans. James was later the subject of a biopic called I Was Monty's Double starring James himself in (of course) the double role as Monty and himself. The second (and less famous) 'Monty's Double', Keith Deamer Banwell[7] was serving with the land-based Long Range Desert Group. Banwell was captured in a raid on Tobruk, but with a friend managed to steal a German vehicle and escape. During a subsequent raid on Crete he was taken prisoner at Heraklion and put under the personal supervision of former world heavyweight boxing champion Max Schmeling, who was serving in the German Army. Banwell and a few of his comrades managed to slip away from their captors and then acquired an assault landing craft. With the help of some Cretan fishermen they made their getaway, but the craft ran out of fuel and drifted for nine days before reaching the North African coast. The privations of this voyage put Banwell in hospital for 12 weeks. When he had recovered, someone noticed that he bore a resemblance to General Montgomery. It was decided that he participate in deception ploys, and so Banwell was sent to Cairo to meet Montgomery, given the appropriate clothing, insignia and General's badges and sent on trips around the Middle East to confuse enemy spies. However, as he was considerably taller than Montgomery, he was told that on no account should he get out of the car. Banwell, finding the assignment boring, sought a return to the infantry.[8][9] +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ “Stalin's Double; or, Socialist Realism”(The newspaper “Rabochaya Tribuna” identified the Stalin double onlyas “Rashid” and said without explaining further that he died "severaldays ago at the age of 93.)http://www.swarthmore.edu/Humanities/pschmid1/array/Gnarl3/stalin.html“Iraq - President Saddam Hussein al-Tikriti”(This link actually mentions one of his known body doubles by “name”!)http://www.comebackalive.com/df/dplaces/iraq/player5.htm“Castro is dead – CIA runs Cuba”(Old story about Castro being long since dead. Mentions double byname.)http://www.uncoveror.com/castro.htm“Disturbing”(Article names Adolph Hitler’s body double as being one Gustav Weler)http://damoo.csun.edu:8888/9193“Fox News Channel – ‘It's Bin Laden ... or Is It?’”By Catherine Donaldson-Evanshttp://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41210,00.html“MSNBC News – ‘Saddam’s Sons’”By Evan Thomas and Christopher Dickey(Latif Yahia, an Iraqi exile who claims that he was for several yearspressed into service as a body double for Saddam’s eldest son and heirapparent, Uday Hussein, claimed he witnessed Uday rape a woman in1981)http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/820190.asp?cp1=1“CNN Cold War Interviews – Ambassador Winston Lord”(Mentions Kissinger use of a double)http://asia.cnn.com/SPECIALS/cold.war/episodes/15/interviews/lord/ Edited March 16, 2014 by Steven Gaal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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