Proof of Motorcade Stopping?

[Robert Mady]

.30-06 : me too : thanks for the correction.

Paul T., I have been thinking about your points from the post #282.

You obviously know a lot about WALKER and are capable of defending your position in a gentlemanly manner which I whole heartedly applaud. You also have opened my eyes to the possibility that WALKER may have played a role in the assassination or cover-up even if it was to falsely entangle OSWALD in shenanigans he had not been a part of. I reread CROSSFIRE section on WALKER to see what Marrs had written about WALKER, worth reading to see all the connections WALKER had with likely players in the coup.

There is a large thread on WALKER that has been bumped back onto the homepage, maybe I should take a break from this conversation and see what has been posted on this subject.

I look forward to continuing this conversation if I can understand WALKER.

Concerning the assassination : I do KNOW about this. I know that the speed of the limo was dictated by the route, as I tried to communicate to you previously the motor-cade was a parade it encompassed the lead car to the last car or bus, CURRY had to pace the parade to wind its way thru downtown and all the turns, if he had accelerated down Elm and then GREER they would have out paced the vehicles following and the parade would have been strung out for blocks. The planners of the route indirectly dictated the pace of the limo because of the route. If you think about this objectively, at the time, there was no apparent danger to influence CURRY or GREER to rush out of downtown or down Elm. What would it have appeared like to the parade watchers to see the limo accelerate away and leave behind his entourage? Consider CURRY's actions and GREERS actions as being normal not conspiratorial.

If you can understand this I can then provide you with information so you may understand what happened next.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Robert Mady

[Paul Trejo]

...I look forward to continuing this conversation if I can understand WALKER.

Concerning the assassination: I do KNOW about this. I know that the speed of the limo was dictated by the route, as I tried to communicate to you previously the motor-cade was a parade it encompassed the lead car to the last car or bus, CURRY had to pace the parade to wind its way thru downtown and all the turns, if he had accelerated down Elm and then GREER they would have out paced the vehicles following and the parade would have been strung out for blocks. The planners of the route indirectly dictated the pace of the limo because of the route. If you think about this objectively, at the time, there was no apparent danger to influence CURRY or GREER to rush out of downtown or down Elm. What would it have appeared like to the parade watchers to see the limo accelerate away and leave behind his entourage? Consider CURRY's actions and GREERS actions as being normal not conspiratorial.

If you can understand this I can then provide you with information so you may understand what happened next.

Well, Bob, I'm pleased add whatever I can to your stock of knowledge about WALKER.

As for the JFK motorcade, and its behavior, I understand what you've said in post #286, and I look forward to hearing your take on what happened next.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited February 27, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Robert Mady]

Paul T.

Again if you can envision that GREER and KELLERMAN are not part of the conspiracy they are reacting normally to a situation as it develops.

After the limo turns the corner onto Elm, at about Z-189 a shot is fired and strikes Our President in the throat, the shot is silent, no one is aware that a shot has been fired or that KENNEDY has been wounded. The evidence to support this is the majority of testimony, Z-film and Altgens #6 which is taken at ~Z-255 in which you can see that bystanders are unaware of any gunfire and there is no overt reactions from any SSA to supposedly the sound of one or two rifle shots. Some of the SSA did hear a pop or a noise and were searching for the source of this odd sound, JACKIE is aware that JOHN is experiencing some sort of distress but since she did not hear a sound she has no idea what is going on (her attention is to CONNALLY who appears to be saying something to her). Bystanders continue to applaud the approach and passing of the limo as if nothing has happened because as far as they knew nothing unusual was happening.

Some of the SSA in the QM became aware of the odd behavior within the limo as well as KELLERMAN and GREER, they both turned around, maybe to determine if there was a problem, since no one in the rear seats were crying out for help there must have been confusion on their part as to what was happening. (IF you can envision that no one heard gunfire until Z-313, this all make sense)

When CONNALLY laid down on top of NELLIE ~Z-300, this alarmed HILL and he started to run to the limo, at the same instant GREER slowed the limo to allow HILL to board as quickly as possible, at Z-313 the first rifle shot is heard and GREER reacts by hitting the breaks, another rifle shot is fired then in quick succession another rifle shot, as HILL reaches the limo GREER floors it to escape and almost looses HILL.

If you can take a step back from the dogma we have grown up with and understand that the three rifle shot theory put forward by the government was false from the beginning you may realize that the scenario I have just posted is the answer to all of the questions linking testimony and film and photographic evidence to the assassination. All of the evidence will begin to make sense. The reason we have discarded testimony, film and photographic evidence is because we could not comprehend how the assassination actually occurred. We can not understand why people did not react or why the SSA protecting LBJ claimed they reacted yet there is no evidence of it in Altgens #6, this is because when Altgens took #6 the first rifle shot had not yet occurred and the SSA had not yet reacted. It is that simple.

We bought into the lie and have tried to make scenarios work within a framework dictated by the government which has been a deception. This is why the WC/R can not be true nor can any conspiracy theory be true that uses with the three shot lie as its foundation.

.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Robert Mady

[Robert Mady]

Paul T. or anyone else if you can comprehend my last post and understand that it represents a truer reality for the assassination I will give you another piece of information that you may find interesting.

[Paul Trejo]

Paul T. or anyone else if you can comprehend my last post and understand that it represents a truer reality for the assassination I will give you another piece of information that you may find interesting.

Well, Bob, everything you wrote in post #288 is plausible to me (and to many readers). We have long accepted that the three-shot theory (which is the same as the "Lone Nut" theory) was invented by the US Government for their purposes, and clung to fiercely for those same purposes.

The notion that nobody heard (or registered) the first shot which hit JFK in the throat, is easy to follow. It was all so sudden. In about 6 seconds it would all be over. People don't usually react so quickly.

Also, your explanation of GREER slowing down and speeding up is plausible. I can follow you so far.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Paul Brancato]

Walker never mentioned Oswald until after Nov 22. Its useless, Paul T., to continue to misrepresent this fact. Your point about Walker wanting Oswald to be seen as a Communist is well taken, and goes to the heart of why I and others believe that Oswald did not shoot at Walker. Had Walker mentioned his suspicions before Nov 22 I would have a different take on this.

When Walker found out that the man in DPD custody was a 'communist' he jumped on the chance to accuse Oswald of being his shooter as well, precisely because he wanted to spin the JFK assassination into a communist, Castro conspiracy, and what better way to bolster Oswald's bonafides than to link him to an assassination attempt on America's most prominent rightist? Without Walker's insinuation into the JFK hit I think it is very unlikely that Ruth Paine, Marina, Demohrenschildt would ever have provided so-called 'evidence' in support of that story. How convenient all this post Nov 22 character assassination of LHO was. Yes, Paul T. - you are right. None of it worked to influence US foreign policy. The lone 'communist' nut became the story.

[Paul Trejo]

Well, Paul B., you don' t have a FACT, you only have a THEORY based on evidence-to-date. We don't have all of Walker's evidence yet. His personal papers were scrubbed before donating them to UT Austin.

Harry Dean says that Walker mentioned his hatred of Lee Harvey Oswald before 11/22/1963. I realize that many people disbelieve Harry Dean because Harry also adds his personal politics to his report -- i.e. about the Mormon Church. However, we should be willing to set aside Harry Dean's political opinions and just highlight his eye-witness reporting.

Also, I completely disagree with your notion that the Paines and the DeMohrenschildt's somehow invented 'evidence' in support of Ex-General Walker, whom they despised. JFK Researchers of the past 50 years have failed to solve the JFK murder, and they all tend to think that the Walker shooting of April 1963 was just an invention by the Warren Commission, supported by a "conspiracy" of Warren Commission witnesses to defend Walker. It's nonsense.

Walker was utterly *opposed* to the Warren Commission notion of a "Lone Nut" assassin of JFK. JFK Researchers have been wrong for 50 years on this topic.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited February 27, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Robert Mady]

Paul T. this is exciting Paul, you will see the connection.

The first shot was fired by a weapon that was not a conventional rifle with a silencer but a weapon made for assassination, I proposed that it was operated by compressed gas, hence made a noise maybe similar to a bb gun, it's projectile carried a toxic or poisoned pellet which can be seen to have effected KENNEDY dramatically, it may have eventually killed him if they had been unsuccessful causing another wound that would be fatal, effectively KENNEDY was "dead" as a result of the throat wound.

Here is a possible link to WALKER and the weapon used for the first shot.

In CROSSFIRE, on page 257 in section on WALKER Marrs writes about people known to be strongly associated with WALKER.

"It is noteworthy that Nelson Hunt's interests apparently ran to violent extremes. A former Hunt family security man, ex-FBI agent Paul Rothermeil, has claimed he was approached by Nelson Bunker Hunt while working for H.L. Hunt. Rothermeil said the younger Hunt wanted help in forming a paramilitary organization and would eliminate opponents with a 'gas gun' imported from Europe. (Victims of this exotic weapon reportedly appear to have suffered a heart attack) Rothermeil said Hunt planned to recruit this private army from General Walker's Dallas Birch Society group. Hunt has denied Rothermeil's allegation, claiming, "I think you'll find he's CIA""

The weapon used to wound KENNEDY in the throat could be the weapon that is being described by Rothermeil.

Paul, now it makes sense why NIXON, HOOVER and LBJ met at the night before the assassination at the Murchison mansion, oil money fueled the assassination, WALKER was involved.

Paul, you maybe correct in that WALKER was up to his eyeballs in the assassination, thanks for all the information, I look forward to having additional discussions with you.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Robert Mady

[Robert Mady]

Kathy, that is a great suggestion, thank you

[Robert Mady]

Paul, your thinking is askew, it was not simply in about 6 seconds, this thinking is still anchored to the deceptive foundation of three shots.

From z-189 to Z-313 was almost 7 seconds.

When the first rifle shot occurred at Z-313 there was a slight pause (2-3 seconds) and then two additional rifle shots followed in quick succession, as far as everyone knew the assassination only took 3 to 3 1-/2 seconds, witnesses were unaware of the first silent shot. When the three rifle shots occurred the SSA did not have time to react. READY immediately jumped from the QM to rush to protect Our President, but was recalled and BENNETT pulled out an automatic rifle in defense, both acts can be seen in film or photograph, these actions occur following Z-313. Following the first rifle shot heard. Same as the SSA protecting the VP, they react after the first rifle shot heard, which was at Z-313.

The entire assassination took 9 or 10 seconds.

Did the limo slow or momentarily stop, yes it slowed around Z-300 after CONNALLY laid back on top of NELLIE, GREER slowed to allow HILL to board the limo, GREER then slowed more or momentarily stopped in reaction to hearing the first rifle shot at Z-313, after HILL reaches the limo about Z-340, GREER floors it and almost looses HILL in the process.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Robert Mady

[Thomas Graves]

Yes Paul I read it.

Paul if we were splitting hairs concerning the exact content of Marrs words I would agree with you, but if WALKER had told Marrs that two men were there and OSWALD was one of them even though he didn't pull the trigger I would think it disingenuous of Marrs to have made that statement. Marrs has too much credibility that would be compromised telling half-truths concerning WALKER or OSWALD.

I can see your logic Paul and I can see that WALKER needs to be examined to see how he played into the cover-up or conspiracy.

Isn't it possible that if the DPD knew about OSWALD in their city that he might have been a suspect because of his known history, is it possible that he was picked up as a routine follow-up to any possible shooter? That OSWALD was released because there was no evidence he was involved or even that he had a solid alibi?

I think you are looking at shenanigans by either the conspirators to throw WALKER out front as a diversion or no-body by the name of WALKER desiring to again share the stage, hey look anyone, OSWALD shot at me too...really he did.

[...]

The topic of the JFK Motorcade stopping or slowing-down is IMHO related to WALKER, who led the DPD in the JFK murder precisely at the DPD-controlled Dealey Plaza, with DPD Chief Jesse Curry as the driver of the lead limo in the JFK Motorcade.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

How far ahead of JFK's limousine was Curry's car?

How did Curry get Greer to slow down or stop exactly where and when he did?

Had at least one shot been already fired at JFK when Greer slowed down or stopped?

Was Curry in visual contact with Greer? If not, how could Curry "control" Greer as precisely as you seem to think he did?

--Tommy

I don't necessarily know the answers to these questions, btw, so they aren't necessarily Rhetorical Questions.

But then again, they might be.

Anyone want to answer these questions for "Professor" Trejo?

Edited February 28, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Trejo]

How far ahead of JFK's limousine was Curry's car?

How did Curry get Greer to slow down or stop exactly where and when he did?

Had at least one shot been already fired at JFK when Greer slowed down or stopped?

Was Curry in visual contact with Greer? If not, how could Curry "control" Greer as precisely as you seem to think he did?

--Tommy

OK, Tommy, you keep bumping these questions, so I might as well take a stab at them.

(1) We need to know how far Curry's limo was ahead of JFK's limo. This stands to reason, because if there was a huge distance, then one cannot suggest that the JFK limo speed was any response to the lead limo. I'd be most interested in the photographic evidence.

(2) If (and only if) the distance between the two limos (so to speak) was very narrow -- then we might be able to speak in terms of cause and effect with regard to the behavior of the two limos.

(3) In my interpretation of the Zapruder film, the throat shot occurs *before* Greer slowed down.

(4) A lead car can control a following car -- not necessarily with hand signals -- but fairly easily with rules agreed upon beforehand giving a range of distances.

My theory that Jesse Curry deliberately led the JFK motorcade past one of the County's official parking lots (behind the Grassy Knoll) were Sheriff Deputies and other City workers parked, and that he was able to "control" the speed of the JFK limo which immediately folllowed him -- will probably stand or fall depending on the photographic evidence.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Robert Mady]

Paul T. are we done discussing the assassination and what occurred with the limo on Elm Street.

You have any comment on the connection to the 'gas gun' that Marrs mentioned and the fact that no one in DP reacted to KENNEDY being wounded in the throat?

What is it about the fact that no one responded to gunshots until after Z-313 that seems to be impossible to comprehend, the majority of testimony supports this when analyzed with the realization that witnesses experienced gunshots following Z-313 and what they describe are not the reaction to the first silent shot at Z-189 but to the rifle shot at Z-313 and the two additional rifle shots that followed, every film and photograph supports this fact !

Real simple don't believe me about the witnesses testimonies, start reading civilian testimonies and tell me which one does not describe exactly what I am claiming as true.

Edited March 1, 2015 by Robert Mady

[Paul Trejo]

Paul T. are we done discussing the assassination and what occurred with the limo on Elm Street.

You have any comment on the connection to the 'gas gun' that Marrs mentioned and the fact that no one in DP reacted to KENNEDY being wounded in the throat?

What is it about the fact that no one responded to gunshots until after Z-313 that seems to be impossible to comprehend, the majority of testimony supports this when analyzed with the realization that witnesses experienced gunshots following Z-313 and what they describe are not the reaction to the first silent shot at Z-189 but to the rifle shot at Z-313 and the two additional rifle shots that followed, every film and photograph supports this fact !

Real simple don't believe me about the witnesses testimonies, start reading civilian testimonies and tell me which one does not describe exactly what I am claiming as true.

Sure, Bob, the topic of the limo at Elm Street is still the main topic here.

As for the "gas gun" that Marrs mentioned, I find no reason to doubt it, and multiple reasons to accept it. It is perhaps odd that only one of the guns was a "gas gun" and the others were quite loud. Still, as an experiment, I think it plausible to try out a gas gun in a live situation -- under the circumstances.

Yet, IMHO, what's more important about the Marrs quotation that you made, Bob, is Paul Rothermeil's report that his client, Nelson Hunt, spoke of Edwin Walker and the Minutemen, along with the JBS in the context of a violent paramilitary task force. I say that this is an important clue to the ground-crew of the JFK murder, and therefore its resolution.

However, some may doubt this -- and that's OK -- on the basis that a case against Walker/Minutemen/JBS has so far obtained very little traction.

Yet it is more information -- that's what I say -- when we hear of a Hunt brother speaking secretly (says Rothermeil) about a violent paramilitary outfit, and citing Walker and the JBS in the same sentence. The date of this meeting was what -- 1963? Can it be any coincidence that former Minuteman Harry Dean in September 1963 reported hearing Edwin Walker himself speaking about a JFK assassination at a JBS meeting?

I see plausibility there -- very little reason to doubt. Remember that Jack Ruby himself told Earl Warren that Edwin Walker and the JBS in Dallas were the real culprits of the JFK murder.

My conclusion is that I believe Marrs' record. I also believe Rothermiel's memory. (The "gas gun" idea is interesting, but not yet necessary for my case.) The vital idea for my case is that Marrs' record has it from yet another source that the JFK murder was largely the work of Dallas "Friends of Walker," Minutemen and JBS members.

Now it's not just Jack Ruby and Harry Dean, but also Paul Rothermiel who allege a Walker/Minuteman/JBS conspiracy that killed JFK and blamed Lee Harvey OSWALD.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited March 1, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Robert Mady]

Paul T., one 'gas gun' and one high powered rifle make perfect sense.

They got 4 shots for the sound from three, in other words the vast majority of witnesses reported hearing three shots, (yes there were some witnesses who claimed one, two and more than three shots) but putting these aberrant reports from these witnesses aside can we agree that there was the sound from just three rifle shots in DP?

If there had only been silent shots:

1) Assuming the silent shot carried toxic or poisoned pellets, how many would they want to shoot with potential for collateral damage? Also if they only shot with a silent weapon, the citizens may have demanded a full investigation in that LHO would not have access to this technology, Also the silent weapon appeared to wound by toxin not by force from projectile.

2) They still needed a 'patsy' whether it was OSWALD or the Cubans, These culprits would have had access to conventional weapons not spy craft stuff.

3) They needed KENNEDY dead, but they also needed to generate a story that we would swallow.

You can't possible test out a 'gas gun' we have no idea how advanced this technology was or what sort of sound it made.

I doubt the CIA or HUNT would hand over the murder weapon, but you are welcome to make a request.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Robert Mady