Was There a Set-up Distinct from the Cover-up?

[Greg Parker]

Fitness camp before and after

[Greg Parker]

Marine recruiting poster

[David Josephs]

So a 5'8" boy becomes a 5'11" man after Basic - and then becomes a 5'9" dead man.. ok.

The FBI goes out of its way to find the WRONG FELDE and reports thru the end of May 1964 that this FELDE did not know any Oswald.

And then they find out they had the wrong man and finally, on June 26, 1964 interview Felde which becomes CE1962.

According to the one and only man they seem to have bothered to find who actually spent time with our Oswald, the WCR recap of his USMC record is wrong.

That Combat Training began at Camp Pendleton and lasted until May 1957 when they are sent to Jacksonville - except by May 3rd LEE Oswald has already completed this training...

Felde (the right one not the one the FBI wanted us to believe they found) goes on to say that in July 1957 they go to Memphis for Aviation School - by JULY, USMC records have him completing this Memphis training and is already back in CA.

In Sept 1957, when Felde is transferred to FL, Oswald is sent to Atsugi.

(Note: if he was a radar operator why do his USMC records (and the WCR) tell us he was trained and preferred to be an Aircraft Mechanic?) - Page 7 of the Folsom Exh #1

Are we now going to say that THESE USMC are correct (Felde is wrong) while the ones related to his trip to Ping Tung while being treated for STDs are not...

The records for Oswald in the USMC are a composite of two different people at these similar yet different locations (El Toto and Santa Ana are not the same facility)

According to David Josephs, this would be two different people....

Mr. P, don't credit your words, thoughts or ideas as anyone elses's - especially mine...

You use unsigned and unsourced FBI documents that describe the wrong years, wrong situations and wrong people to rebutt the H&L points - and then can't even admit you got it wrong -

while offering up nothing but speculation and accusations.

All the way down to accusing the doctor who performed the tonsillectomy of not being qualified or able to perform said operation and that MO made the entire thing up - again, wrong speculation without a speck of proof and when proven to you you can't even have the class to admit your errors...

If you can't tell the difference between the two men I posted side by side - so be it Greg... your "acceptance" of these arguments or lack thereof is nothing I give much thought to... Someday, when you are actually qualified to discuss H&L we can pick it up again... until then maybe it's best if you just stick to your own work... (or at least bring some corroborated facts to the table so we're doing more than dealing with your opinions)

[Thomas Graves]

So a 5'8" boy becomes a 5'11" man after Basic - and then becomes a 5'9" dead man.. ok.

The FBI goes out of its way to find the WRONG FELDE and reports thru the end of May 1964 that this FELDE did not know any Oswald.

And then they find out they had the wrong man and finally, on June 26, 1964 interview Felde which becomes CE1962.

According to the one and only man they seem to have bothered to find who actually spent time with our Oswald, the WCR recap of his USMC record is wrong.

That Combat Training began at Camp Pendleton and lasted until May 1957 when they are sent to Jacksonville - except by May 3rd LEE Oswald has already completed this training...

Felde (the right one not the one the FBI wanted us to believe they found) goes on to say that in July 1957 they go to Memphis for Aviation School - by JULY, USMC records have him completing this Memphis training and is already back in CA.

In Sept 1957, when Felde is transferred to FL, Oswald is sent to Atsugi.

(Note: if he was a radar operator why do his USMC records (and the WCR) tell us he was trained and preferred to be an Aircraft Mechanic?) - Page 7 of the Folsom Exh #1

Are we now going to say that THESE USMC are correct (Felde is wrong) while the ones related to his trip to Ping Tung while being treated for STDs are not...

The records for Oswald in the USMC are a composite of two different people at these similar yet different locations (El Toto and Santa Ana are not the same facility)

According to David Josephs, this would be two different people....

Mr. P, don't credit your words, thoughts or ideas as anyone elses's - especially mine...

You use unsigned and unsourced FBI documents that describe the wrong years, wrong situations and wrong people to rebutt the H&L points - and then can't even admit you got it wrong -

while offering up nothing but speculation and accusations.

All the way down to accusing the doctor who performed the tonsillectomy of not being qualified or able to perform said operation and that MO made the entire thing up - again, wrong speculation without a speck of proof and when proven to you you can't even have the class to admit your errors...

If you can't tell the difference between the two men I posted side by side - so be it Greg... your "acceptance" of these arguments or lack thereof is nothing I give much thought to... Someday, when you are actually qualified to discuss H&L we can pick it up again... until then maybe it's best if you just stick to your own work... (or at least bring some corroborated facts to the table so we're doing more than dealing with your opinions)

Josephs,

Now that Greg Parker has left, feel free to push your religion on us.

Hopefully, Greg opened some eyes to the fallacies of your "Genetically-Engineered Harvey and Lee and Henry, Too" theory during the brief time he was here.

For example, he showed us all that Lee Harvey Oswald was at Marine Corp boot camp for the standard twelve weeks, not your alleged five weeks or whatever.

He also showed us how the face and neck of a Marine Recruit can "fill out" during the boot camp "experience."

BTW: Do not mistake my refusal to reply to your future posts on your implausible theory as any inability on my part to do the requisite research.

It's just that I value my time, and I, like many, "have bigger fish to fry."

--Tommy

Edited March 27, 2015 by Kathy Beckett

[David Josephs]

Jo Jo,

Now that Greg Parker has left, feel free to push your religion on us.

Hopefully, Greg opened some eyes to the fallacies of your "Genetically-Engineered Harvey and Lee and Henry, Too" theory during the brief time he was here.

For example, he showed us all that Lee Harvey Oswald was at Marine Corp boot camp for the standard twelve weeks, not your alleged five weeks or whatever.

BTW: Do not mistake my refusal to reply to your future posts on your implausible theory as any inability on my part to do the requisite research.

It's just that I value my time, Jo Jo, and I, like many, "have bigger fish to fry."

Tommy -

You havent' read the book - like GP

You haven't read the notebooks - like GP

You haven't bothered to speak with John Armstrong - like GP

You haven't bothered to actually study the info - like GP

You don't bother to actually look at and consider the real evidence provided here - like GP (how can the WCR state Felde was with the man yet nothing Felde says matches the MILITARY record as to where he was and when..?)

Did you even bother looking at CE1961 versus 1962? Do you know what the Ping Tung situation was and how the DoD messes it up again via Blakey?

Does it not bother you that none of the people who were LEE in the Marines are ever asked a question?

Does it not bother you that when GP posts evidence on a question about the '53-'54 school years he gives me 7 links to unsigned, unsourced boiler plate FBI reports about 1954-55? And then claims I'm playing games.

Yes, Tommy, I'm sure your time is oh so valuable, no one has asked that you read or comment upon my posts or the threads I start - amazingly enough, you make those decisions all on your own and now have to inform me that your decisions are beyond your own control? You have "fish to fry" (whatever that means) and don't have the self control to leave me alone and go fry them?

Your disdain and lack of respect for Armstrong's work is most unfortunate - you seem able to do your own thinking and not rely on me or GP... but that takes a little work that you dont seem interested or willing to commit.

Fine. that I spent all that time and effort to understand the theories and then created tools to help others falls on your deaf ears. Those who are interested in the subject and have done more than just give it lip service understand what I've done and continue to share and grow that understanding.

Here's a thought: Don't read my threads, Don't read my posts and Don't pretend to care about what is written about H&L... cover your eyes, ears and mouth and go your merry way - I'm not taking it personnally or having to go start my own Board so I can post whatever I want without worry of rebuttal. I post here from time to time and anyone can offer up whatever they can in discussion. Expecting that these discussions include more than opinion and speculation is just too much I guess.

I happen to think you offer a good mind and good questions that lead threads in positive directions. You sound more like VonPein accepting the WCR when you defend Mr. P's POV here... all faith and very little understanding.

Edited March 11, 2015 by David Josephs

[Thomas Graves]

Jo Jo,

Now that Greg Parker has left, feel free to push your religion on us.

Hopefully, Greg opened some eyes to the fallacies of your "Genetically-Engineered Harvey and Lee and Henry, Too" theory during the brief time he was here.

For example, he showed us all that Lee Harvey Oswald was at Marine Corp boot camp for the standard twelve weeks, not your alleged five weeks or whatever.

BTW: Do not mistake my refusal to reply to your future posts on your implausible theory as any inability on my part to do the requisite research.

It's just that I value my time, Jo Jo, and I, like many, "have bigger fish to fry."

Tommy -

You havent' read the book - like GP

You haven't read the notebooks - like GP

You haven't bothered to speak with John Armstrong - like GP

You haven't bothered to actually study the info - like GP

You don't bother to actually look at and consider the real evidence provided here - like GP (how can the WCR state Felde was with the man yet nothing Felde says matches the MILITARY record as to where he was and when..?)

Did you even bother looking at CE1961 versus 1962? Do you know what the Ping Tung situation was and how the DoD messes it up again via Blakey?

Does it not bother you that none of the people who were LEE in the Marines are ever asked a question?

Does it not bother you that when GP posts evidence on a question about the '53-'54 school years he gives me 7 links to unsigned, unsourced boiler plate FBI reports about 1954-55? And then claims I'm playing games.

Yes, Tommy, I'm sure your time is oh so valuable, no one has asked that you read or comment upon my posts or the threads I start - amazingly enough, you make those decisions all on your own and now have to inform me that your decisions are beyond your own control? You have "fish to fry" (whatever that means) and don't have the self control to leave me alone and go fry them?

Your disdain and lack of respect for Armstrong's work is most unfortunate - you seem able to do your own thinking and not rely on me or GP... but that takes a little work that you dont seem interested or willing to commit.

Fine. that I spent all that time and effort to understand the theories and then created tools to help others falls on your deaf ears. Those who are interested in the subject and have done more than just give it lip service understand what I've done and continue to share and grow that understanding.

Here's a thought: Don't read my threads, Don't read my posts and Don't pretend to care about what is written about H&L... cover your eyes, ears and mouth and go your merry way - I'm not taking it personnally or having to go start my own Board so I can post whatever I want without worry of rebuttal. I post here from time to time and anyone can offer up whatever they can in discussion. Expecting that these discussions include more than opinion and speculation is just too much I guess.

I happen to think you offer a good mind and good questions that lead threads in positive directions. You sound more like VonPein accepting the WCR when you defend Mr. P's POV here... all faith and very little understanding.

Dear Jo Jo,

How do you explain the part of Warren Commission Exhibit 1961 that Greg Parker posted which shows that Lee Harvey Oswald was at Marine Corps Recruit Depot, San Diego (basic training aka "boot camp") for twelve weeks?

Do you claim that it is "a forgery", or that it was somehow "altered"?

If Armstrong and your ilk can be so wrong about such a basic issue as how long LHO was at boot camp, your credibility is destroyed IMHO.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=1139&relPageId=828

--Tommy

Edited March 11, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[David Josephs]

Dear Jo Jo,

How do you explain the part of Warren Commission Exhibit 1961 that Greg Parker posted which shows that Lee Harvey Oswald was at Marine Corps Recruit Depot, San Diego (basic training aka "boot camp") for twelve weeks?

Do you claim that it is "a forgery", or that it was somehow "altered"?

If Armstrong and your ilk can be so wrong about such a basic issue as how long LHO was at boot camp, your credibility is destroyed IMHO.

http://www.maryferre...9&relPageId=828

I explain it by stating the one man the WC found who spent time with HARVEY gives us a completely different timeline.

I explain it by reiterating the premise - there were two men using the name Lee Oswald yet the records of these men were combined to create one record.

The records and information we find in the WCR and HSCA reports is designed to do one thing, implicate Oswald.

And yet you are incredulous and suprised to find out that some of these FBI sourced reports were either fabricated, altered, and/or combined as needed.

Or, instead of the highly motivated FBI creating a document to help tell the Oswald story, an un-motivated Marine associate of HARVEY's tells his story and must be what, lying? mistaken? Sorry Tommy but the FBI and their data has proven themselves untrustworthy, has Felde somehow done that to you?

(I found the FBI took a Sept 1964 report and back-dated it to December 1963 so that there would be a bus for OSwald to leave New Orleans upon. So please Tommy - if you don't know of what you speak, better to keep it to yourself)

The information in the WCR's CE1961 is a composite - and is why the FBI went out of its way not to investigate the men who would contradict this information.

Felde was only found out due to a May article in LIFE magazine. Like Tague, they simply did not care to be concerned with any evidence which could contradict their investigation.

Sadly you seem to have stopped short of reading CE1962 or haven't the time or desire to go to the Baylor site and look it up. http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/tabs/collection/po-arm

LHO: 1957, Military, Jan. – Aug. - Felde, Allen is a 60 page notebook trying to make sense of the FBI's wrong FELDE reports.

Felde's dates and the FBI exhibit conflict. What you do from here is up to you. My position is clear and the H&L work is available for all to see.

Thanks for your condescension though... me and my ilk will proceed accordingly

DJ

"you aint gonna learn what you dont wanna know"

[Thomas Graves]

Dear Jo Jo,

How do you explain the part of Warren Commission Exhibit 1961 that Greg Parker posted which shows that Lee Harvey Oswald was at Marine Corps Recruit Depot, San Diego (basic training aka "boot camp") for twelve weeks?

Do you claim that it is "a forgery", or that it was somehow "altered"?

If Armstrong and your ilk can be so wrong about such a basic issue as how long LHO was at boot camp, your credibility is destroyed IMHO.

http://www.maryferre...9&relPageId=828

I explain it by stating the one man the WC found who spent time with HARVEY gives us a completely different timeline.

I explain it by reiterating the premise - there were two men using the name Lee Oswald yet the records of these men were combined to create one record.

The records and information we find in the WCR and HSCA reports is designed to do one thing, implicate Oswald.

And yet you are incredulous and suprised to find out that some of these FBI sourced reports were either fabricated, altered, and/or combined as needed.

Or, instead of the highly motivated FBI creating a document to help tell the Oswald story, an un-motivated Marine associate of HARVEY's tells his story and must be what, lying? mistaken? Sorry Tommy but the FBI and their data has proven themselves untrustworthy, has Felde somehow done that to you?

(I found the FBI took a Sept 1964 report and back-dated it to December 1963 so that there would be a bus for OSwald to leave New Orleans upon. So please Tommy - if you don't know of what you speak, better to keep it to yourself)

The information in the WCR's CE1961 is a composite - and is why the FBI went out of its way not to investigate the men who would contradict this information.

Felde was only found out due to a May article in LIFE magazine. Like Tague, they simply did not care to be concerned with any evidence which could contradict their investigation.

Sadly you seem to have stopped short of reading CE1962 or haven't the time or desire to go to the Baylor site and look it up. http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/tabs/collection/po-arm

LHO: 1957, Military, Jan. – Aug. - Felde, Allen is a 60 page notebook trying to make sense of the FBI's wrong FELDE reports.

Felde's dates and the FBI exhibit conflict. What you do from here is up to you. My position is clear and the H&L work is available for all to see.

Thanks for your condescension though... me and my ilk will proceed accordingly

DJ

"you aint gonna learn what you dont wanna know"

Wow. It's all interconnected and oh so complicated, huh Jo Jo.

So darn many alterations and forgeries, photographic as well as textual!

One must cherry pick like crazy, mustn't one, to arrive at THE TRUTH.

So please tell us once again how the bad guys were able to choose two young boys who they knew would grow up looking sufficiently alike each other to be able to fool lots and lots of witnesses many years later. Genetic Engineering, wasn't it?

LOL

--Tommy

Edited March 11, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Jon G. Tidd]

I request we address whether there was a set-up distinct from the cover-up.

I ask whether anyone can point to a verifiable action of Marina's husband pre-assassination that paints him as JFK's killer.

[David Josephs]

Jon

Isn't a set-up by default a series of actions designed to incriminate someone who did not do the deed he is being set-up for?

Oswald's actions are at the very least duplicitous. If he was part of a program to use aliases to purchase mail order rifles for Dodd (Kleins was a target of the Dodd investigation btw) and does order a rifle under HIDELL which is later used to "set him up" - did he does this to paint himself as JFK's killer or did the plotters use this to aid in his incrimination.

He did not go to Russia as part of the plan to kill JFK

He did not start the FPCC chapter as part of that plan

He did not go to Mexico at all - yet the "set-up" used a proven imposter's voice and photo to satisfy the evidence needed to place him at the Cuban embassy attempting to get to Russia... at the time it may have had other purposes - for the assassination that happens in Dallas, it was very useful for the "set-up"

The "set-up" ID's the patsy and the official story

The "cover-up" insures those who had a part in it are not caught and that none of the evidence required to understand what really happened EVER becomes available.

I find it very hard to separate the "set-up" from the "cover-up" since the components of the set-up must be known to accurately provide the cover-up...

What are they covering up? The fact that Oswald never pulled the trigger, bought the rifle, bought the hand-gun or was where they claimed he was to accomplish what he accused of.

Mr. Harvey Oswald was used as an asset, an expendable asset who was maneuvered into various positions based on some over-arching plan.

These positions were used to his disadvantage as needed and to his handler's advantages as needed.

I firmly believe that plans such as these do not move forward unless a scapegoat is in place... Vallee was in place and loaded to the teeth and my gut tells me that the same batch of duplicitous events surrounded him which could and would have been paraded out to "set-up" this patsy as they were to set-up ours.

============

Hey Tommy - if you're that interested, go read the book, examine the CD-ROM and plow thru the notebooks - took me 2 years WITH Armstrong's help -

or take the word of those who have put the time and effort in and maybe consider stop being so condescending to lines of thought you have not bothered to research in any depth.

Sure, ask questions. But don't tell us we are wrong when you simply do not know any better... k?

[Thomas Graves]

I request we address whether there was a set-up distinct from the cover-up.

I ask whether anyone can point to a verifiable action of Marina's husband pre-assassination that paints him as JFK's killer.

I suggest that they were separate phases of the same project (a coup 'd etat), masterminded by the same small group of people and not comprehended in toto by the participants because everything was done on a "need to know" basis.

--Tommy

[Thomas Graves]

Jon

Isn't a set-up by default a series of actions designed to incriminate someone who did not do the deed he is being set-up for?

Oswald's actions are at the very least duplicitous. If he was part of a program to use aliases to purchase mail order rifles for Dodd (Kleins was a target of the Dodd investigation btw) and does order a rifle under HIDELL which is later used to "set him up" - did he does this to paint himself as JFK's killer or did the plotters use this to aid in his incrimination.

He did not go to Russia as part of the plan to kill JFK

He did not start the FPCC chapter as part of that plan

He did not go to Mexico at all - yet the "set-up" used a proven imposter's voice and photo to satisfy the evidence needed to place him at the Cuban embassy attempting to get to Russia... at the time it may have had other purposes - for the assassination that happens in Dallas, it was very useful for the "set-up"

The "set-up" ID's the patsy and the official story

The "cover-up" insures those who had a part in it are not caught and that none of the evidence required to understand what really happened EVER becomes available.

I find it very hard to separate the "set-up" from the "cover-up" since the components of the set-up must be known to accurately provide the cover-up...

What are they covering up? The fact that Oswald never pulled the trigger, bought the rifle, bought the hand-gun or was where they claimed he was to accomplish what he accused of.

Mr. Harvey Oswald was used as an asset, an expendable asset who was maneuvered into various positions based on some over-arching plan.

These positions were used to his disadvantage as needed and to his handler's advantages as needed.

I firmly believe that plans such as these do not move forward unless a scapegoat is in place... Vallee was in place and loaded to the teeth and my gut tells me that the same batch of duplicitous events surrounded him which could and would have been paraded out to "set-up" this patsy as they were to set-up ours.

============

Hey Tommy - if you're that interested, go read the book, examine the CD-ROM and plow thru the notebooks - took me 2 years WITH Armstrong's help -

or take the word of those who have put the time and effort in and maybe consider stop being so condescending to lines of thought you have not bothered to research in any depth.

Sure, ask questions. But don't tell us we are wrong when you simply do not know any better... k?

Dear Jo Jo,

Why would I want to read a disorganized, inaccurate 600+ page book that even some of its avowed believers are hesitant to dive into.

If I did, I would spend the rest of my life "fact checking" its dubious claims and arguing with you and the other true believers out there.

BTW-- As far as I know, you've never answered my question: How did the bad guys go about choosing your "Harvey" and "Lee" in the first place? Just any old Russian-speaking boy the same age as Lee would have sufficed? Or was it vice versa?

(We'll leave marked-card "Henry" out of the mix for now.)

--Tommy

Edited March 12, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Greg Parker]

What a truly sorry way to conduct onself. You made up a load of lies mendacious statements about what I'd said years ago in a post here thinking it was safe to do so. Then when I turned up and showed everyone here what I actually did say and additionally, showed your own evidence not only doesn't support you, it supports the official line, you disappeared until you thought safe to return. No admissions of error - just more blather which I can only assume is meant to confuse the reader into believing whatever subtext it is you're feeding them.

So a 5'8" boy becomes a 5'11" man after Basic - and then becomes a 5'9" dead man.. ok.

No. A 5' 8" man becomes a 5' 9". Once again - his 5' 11" is self-reported, not measured.

The FBI goes out of its way to find the WRONG FELDE and reports thru the end of May 1964 that this FELDE did not know any Oswald.

And then they find out they had the wrong man and finally, on June 26, 1964 interview Felde which becomes CE1962.

According to the one and only man they seem to have bothered to find who actually spent time with our Oswald, the WCR recap of his USMC record is wrong.

That Combat Training began at Camp Pendleton and lasted until May 1957 when they are sent to Jacksonville - except by May 3rd LEE Oswald has already completed this training...

Felde (the right one not the one the FBI wanted us to believe they found) goes on to say that in July 1957 they go to Memphis for Aviation School - by JULY, USMC records have him completing this Memphis training and is already back in CA.

In Sept 1957, when Felde is transferred to FL, Oswald is sent to Atsugi.

I thought this was about these documents proving that Oswald only spent 5 weeks at boot camp? Given up on that, have we? Think no one has noticed the switch?

(Note: if he was a radar operator why do his USMC records (and the WCR) tell us he was trained and preferred to be an Aircraft Mechanic?) - Page 7 of the Folsom Exh #1

Are we now going to say that THESE USMC are correct (Felde is wrong) while the ones related to his trip to Ping Tung while being treated for STDs are not...

The records for Oswald in the USMC are a composite of two different people at these similar yet different locations (El Toto and Santa Ana are not the same facility)

The only composite Oswald is the one on the left - using some of the photo on the right - which in turn is not Lee Oswald, either, but Robert.

The Frankenstein Oswald is the creation of Jack White.

And pasted rather badly over a Star-Telegram story. It is a disgrace, but shows the depth of the H & L deception.

Here is the REAL Star Telegram story photo...

Seems Robert gave a reporter a photo of Lee and then when the Star-Telegram reporter turned up, he had no more, so he passed off one of himself. My guess is money changed hands as the motivation.

According to David Josephs, this would be two different people....

Mr. P, don't credit your words, thoughts or ideas as anyone elses's - especially mine...

Why? The before/after composite is EXACTLY the same as your "Harvey/Lee" composite.

You use unsigned and unsourced FBI documents that describe the wrong years, wrong situations and wrong people to rebutt the H&L points - and then can't even admit you got it wrong -

while offering up nothing but speculation and accusations.

What the hell is an"unsourced" FBI document supposed be? As for the rest of it... just more blather from the person that claimed his last lot of documents proved LHO only did 5 weeks of book camp.

All the way down to accusing the doctor who performed the tonsillectomy of not being qualified or able to perform said operation and that MO made the entire thing up

Nope. Don't put words in mouth. Never ever said she made it up. Said she may have been fooled into thinking this quack did actually do an operation. He was a freaking osteopath. In the rest of the civilized world, they are regarded on the same level as witch doctors. They get to have the title of "doctor" in the US because of the power of lobbying - certainly not from the power of scientific evidence or common sense.

Let's be clear about this. Even if the quack did do a tonsilectomy, there is no evidence (unlike the hospital records for the mastoidectomy). The only evidence is a mention on an insurance policy. The other point is - for those not brainwashed by the H & L cult - that tonsils can and do grow back - especially when taken out an early age back in the pre-60s when only partial tonsilectomies were performed. David is pretending he hasn't been told all this before, and he will react now, by ( a ) ignoring it ( b ) switching topics or ( c ) post another barrage of incoherent blather to confuse readers into thinking he has actually answered anything.

- again, wrong speculation without a speck of proof and when proven to you you can't even have the class to admit your errors...

Show me an error. I've shown yours, yet I see no admissions of them...

If you can't tell the difference between the two men I posted side by side - so be it Greg... your "acceptance" of these arguments or lack thereof is nothing I give much thought to... Someday, when you are actually qualified to discuss H&L we can pick it up again... until then maybe it's best if you just stick to your own work... (or at least bring some corroborated facts to the table so we're doing more than dealing with your opinions)

Translation: "Please leave me and my fantasies alone." I have news for you, David. Even those who once thought it was a waste of time and effort going after people like you, are now saying "yep. It's gotta be done. We don't want people like that representing the rest of us in any way, shape or form." In fact, that's the only reason I'm still here. I had my mind changed by people who are sick to death of the slop that is served up like it's a Christmas turkey.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Greg Parker

[Paul Brancato]

Greg - I have to call you out on one thing. I don't have the patience to read the back and forth between you and David. But you are completely wrong about osteopathy. It is legit, though there are gp's who get their doctorate by going to college of osteopathy and then never practice that venerable science. I've had treatments by many over the years in several locations. That some in the medical profession views them as quacks is unfortunate and narrow minded.

[Greg Parker]

Greg - I have to call you out on one thing. I don't have the patience to read the back and forth between you and David. But you are completely wrong about osteopathy. It is legit, though there are gp's who get their doctorate by going to college of osteopathy and then never practice that venerable science. I've had treatments by many over the years in several locations. That some in the medical profession views them as quacks is unfortunate and narrow minded.

faith healing works for some, too Paul. I'm well aware of the history of osteopathy, having dived into it because of this. It got "mainstream" status through lobbying and yes - some who wouldn't get into a regular med school use osteopathy to get that "Dr" in front of their name and don't actually practice it. The rest of the world is way too sensible to allow snake oil salesmen and med school rejects to become doctors.