Who saw Baker enter the TSBD?

[Robert Prudhomme]

Who actually identified this woman seen in Darnell as Gloria Calvary?

[Thomas Graves]

Who actually identified this woman seen in Darnell as Gloria Calvary?

Not I.

The woman standing on Elm is wearing a light-colored skirt and a dark-colored upper garment.

The woman running in Darnell / Couch is wearing a dark-colored dress and a white or light-colored upper garment.

They are two different women. Yes?

--Tommy

[Robert Prudhomme]

Yes, the running woman cannot be Calvary. She is still running as the "Lovelady" figure is seen talking to the person just below him.

[Thomas Graves]

Yes, the running woman cannot be Calvary. She is still running as the "Lovelady" figure is seen talking to the person just below him.

Perhaps an even better question to ask is "Who identified the women standing on Elm?"

--Tommy

Edited May 12, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Robert Prudhomme]

Her being on Elm, near the sign, is more believable, as she testifies to being here to the WC. However, other than that, it is a good question.

[Thomas Graves]

Her being on Elm, near the sign, is more believable, as she testifies to being here to the WC. However, other than that, it is a good question.

You seem to base your recent "discovery" that Lovelady can be seen at the far western edge of the steps ("west" = "on the left" as we look at the TSBD) in Darnell / Couch by the same logic that you are applying to Gloria Calvary's movements and possible film appearances after the assassination. I.e., That's where Lovelady testified that he was, and we can see somebody who kinda resembles him there in Darnell / Couch (either that or the backside of a woman who is ascending the steps and wearing a light-colored scarf on her head).

Your Devil's Advocate Friend,

--Tommy

[Clive Largey]

Who actually identified this woman seen in Darnell as Gloria Calvary?

Researcher Don Roberdeau the compiler of the map might be a good person to ask Robert.

[Robin Unger]

I'm glad you saw it, Thomas. I was beginning to think you were just teasing me.

Now, I'm really going to go out on a limb here. Gloria Calvary was standing east of and within spitting distance of the Stemmons Freeway sign at the time of the shooting. There is photographic evidence showing her facing away from Zapruder's camera at this position. In the Zapruder film, she is wearing a dark top and what appears to be a white skirt.

There is also Ms. Calvary's own words:

“We walked to Elm Street and stopped at a point on the north side of Elm Street about halfway between Houston Street and the Triple Underpass. We were standing at this point when President John F. Kennedy was shot. The car he was in was almost directly in front of where I was standing when I heard the first shot.”

So, we know where she was during the shooting, but what about after the shooting? As far as I know, there are only two stills showing a woman we are told is Gloria Calvary:

There is only one problem. Calvary is described by the FBI as a Caucasian, and the woman in the Darnell still looks distinctly Negro.

This is why I am wondering about the figure seen in front of the person we think may be Lovelady, as I can see a dark top and a white skirt. This is exactly how Lovelady received the news, according to his testimony. Shelley's testimony states the same thing. Gloria Calvary runs up to the TSBD steps and tells them the President has been shot.

Now, if Calvary only appeared in Shelley's and Lovelady's testimonies, I would write it off as fabrication on the part of these two witnesses. However, in Shelley's statement of 22/11/63, he states that Calvary came running up to the concrete island in front of the TSBD, and he went running out to see her. Somehow or other, I believe, Ms. Calvary found her way back to the entrance of the TSBD much sooner than we have been led to believe, and the woman ID'ed as Calvary down on the pergola lawn is not her at all.

What really has me baffled, though, is that, if that is her speaking to Lovelady on the steps, how did she get to the steps before Baker did?

If not outright Caucasian, she looks like she might be Hispanic to me.

I can see how an ignorant person back there at the beginning of the "Black vs. White" civil rights era would say that Calvary was "white." Why? Because she wasn't Black! Especially in the South where Hispanics were probably held in higher regard than "Negroes".

--Tommy

Yes Thomas, HISPANIC

Bob

Please post the testimony saying that Calvary was Caucasian.

I Emailed DON when i did that Collage, he agreed with me that it was more than likely Calvary

I also asked Todd Vaughn who provided the Darnell frame, he was not so sure that it was Calvary.

But we see the three women standing together in Zapruder

Robin

Edited May 19, 2015 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

We see Calvary's face in profile in one of the early Zapruder frames, she is looking to her right.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

Who actually identified this woman seen in Darnell as Gloria Calvary?

Thiery Speth and myself made the identification.

I sent my composite image to Don Roberdeau who then confirmed the identification.

I also cross checked with Todd Vaughn who agreed on Hicks and Reed but wasn't sure about Calvary as he did not believe she was dark skinned ?

From memory there are just a couple of Zapruder frames where we see her face in profile

It makes sense to me that the 3-women should still be standing together after the assassination

Edited May 19, 2015 by Robin Unger

[Robert Prudhomme]

Robin, it is in a statement Gloria Calvary (Mrs. Robert R. Calvary) gave to the FBI, and it can be found in Commission Exhibit No. 1381:

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pdf/WH22_CE_1381.pdf

"I am of the Caucasian race, twenty-one years of age....."

[Robert Prudhomme]

Don Roberdeau also identified the two men in khaki work clothes, in front of the TSBD, as Roy Truly and Ochus Campbell. Within half an hour, Truly was wearing a dark suit, white shirt and tie, and a fedora.

[Robin Unger]

I will post Zapruder frames z059 and z060

Which to my eyes show that Calvary is Dark complected.

[Robin Unger]

Quote from another thread.

Chris Scally:

Robin:

To my eyes, the woman in Zapruder frame 059, and the woman you identified as Gloria Calvary in the Darnell frame, are one and the same person. The hairstyle is the same, and she is certainly dark complectioned.

I could be wrong, of course, but I'd be happy with that identification, FWIW.

Chris

Quote from: Gerda Dunckel on July 24, 2012, 01:18:20 PM

judging from the other photos of her, I always was under the impression that she is afro-american ?



Hi Gerda

Here skin seems to be darker to me, Todd provided this Darnell frame, but he had a problem with my ID of Calvary because he was under the impression that Calvary was light skinned.

That isn't what i see in the Zapruder profile frame, i see a darker skinned woman, possibly afro-american or hispanic.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

I will provide a clearer version later.

Z-059