What happened to Fetzer?!?!?

[Steven Gaal]

A domestic coup by LBJ w/CIA, MI, TX oil.

MI = Military Industrial complex?

yes, i can see this. It falls in line with Carl Oglesby's Yankee/Cowboy theory, which is one of the books i was weaned on.

and now i'm going slowly through R Bartholomew's UT stuff - and THAT circle of shiny people - Dulles, Paines, et al. (the Cubans and Sturgis, Loran Hall...), I'm thinking that this flows pretty well with LBJ's interests.

it's a blast working through all this.

Wow, Oglesby is quite the place to start one's study. Count yourself very lucky to have found this wonderful book. Carl was my very first conspiracy friend (1973) and we remained very close until his sad death in 2011. My copy of his book is falling apart but I will never part with it. (lots of mushy stuff written on the inside makes it extra special). It really connected a lot of dots and is beautifully written. Carl was the only person I have ever known who actually spoke the same way he wrote: with brilliance and elegance. It's still hard for me to believe I can't just pick up the phone and discuss the state of the case, or our kids, or today's marriage equality decision.

And Richard B was my first Austin conspiracy friend. His manuscript is full of info but needs a road map to keep all of the names straight. I have not read it in a very long time. Sad that the Rambler is lost, just in case it did have a connection. All the stuff in the backseat certainly suggests some connection to 11/22/63, even if not Ruth Paine's car. And who- and why- ripped out all the pages at the Liab? This case has more mystery than any novel could ever contrive. You can literally lose decades of your life studying it.

Dawn

Dawn, I'm so glad you you responded - I remember that I had seen in another thread that someone here knew Carl personally, and I've been dying to remember who it was (without coming out and asking).

I've sent you a PM if you don't mind, as I left topic a bit in my ramblings of Carl Oglesby. ---

Darn: Not sure what the deal is with the PM system here but did not receive one from you. My email address is dmeredith@austin.rr.com. Can you resend. Thanx. Always happy to chat about Carl. Yankee/Cowboy got posted here- the first several chapters- via he and I am John Simkin for scanning it many years ago, 06 I believe.

Dawn

DAWN

Bartholomew did some great work http://www.assassinationresearch.com/v1n2/gtds_4.html (I quote it in my Dulles did it thread)

The UT article is also great.

I should have put in my Dulles thread that Rambler owner Wing taught a Dulles relative.,gaal

[Glenn Nall]

regarding the report of BBC reporting 9/11 early - I remember one of the very first things i ever read about the JFK conspiracy being that some newspapers in Australia had actually printed the news predated to some extent or the other - by a few hours or something.

Willing to be corrected but I think that was a misunderstanding regarding the international date line / time zones. For example, as I write this it is 9.03PM on Saturday 27 June 2015. At the same instant in Washington DC it is 7.03AM on the same day.

yes, of course that's probably what it was. an inexperienced novice researcher like myself at that time would have (well, did) assumed that whoever reported such a thing would have had enough integrity and brains to consider the time zone differences; also I didn't consider the variables we have today, like idiots, trouble-makers, alarmists (people with good intentions who scream Conspiracy when they see the first anomaly, like a 7am news article in an Australian newspaper). Oh, and LoneNutters. another unavoidable variable. Kind of like a cold sore.

unavoidable.

also it didn't pass longevity test (there has to be a better name for...) the fact that if an item is that explosive AND accurate it's going to get attention and traction. if it dies out, it simply couldn't have contained any substance.

the BBC film report on WTC7 is just such a thing. no matter how convincing it appeared, there's just no way it's true if it didn't pan out. If it was true, back then, we'd have known about it by now. These "truthers" seem to ignore this part.

[Glenn Nall]

DAWN

Bartholomew did some great work http://www.assassinationresearch.com/v1n2/gtds_4.html (I quote it in my Dulles did it thread)

The UT article is also great.

I should have put in my Dulles thread that Rambler owner Wing taught a Dulles relative.,gaal

Steven, I'm very very impressed with both Oglesby and Bartholomew's extensive energy and research and writing. I only just happened across both of them, have found a second copy of Yankee/Cowboy and am KEEPING it, and at this point only know of the UTRambler story by Richard. I'm working my way slowly though it, and know that i'm going to want to find more, so thanks for that link. He seems to be very trustworthy in that he puts so much work, obviously, into his, um, work.

So many people in this thing just shoot from the hip, conjecture becomes "everybody knows" becomes fact (right, D.?). It's very clear when someone really knows what they're doing, knows their subject and has done some homework.

It's good to be able to read people like these two, not feeling obligated to buy into their school hook-line-and -sinker like you feel sometimes when you're reading someone's agenda - that they're trying to sell you a car. Knowing the research is trustworth gives one the freedom to form his or her own opinion on the research and not the voice, or the conjecture.

I guess. right?

thanks

Edited June 27, 2015 by Glenn Nall

[Vince Palamara]

will do!

[Ron Ecker]

Willing to be corrected but I think that was a misunderstanding regarding the international date line / time zones. For example, as I write this it is 9.03PM on Saturday 27 June 2015. At the same instant in Washington DC it is 7.03AM on the same day.

Evan,

It had nothing to do with time zones. If you watch the BBC video (linked in post 29), you will see that while the BBC lady is reporting the collapse of Building 7, Building 7 is clearly visible behind her, still standing.

[Glenn Nall]

Ron, he was referring to my memory of the JFK Australia news report that was "early," i believe.

[Evan Burton]

Ron, he was referring to my memory of the JFK Australia news report that was "early," i believe.

That's correct, Glenn.

[Ron Ecker]

if an item is that explosive AND accurate it's going to get attention and traction. if it dies out, it simply couldn't have contained any substance.

the BBC film report on WTC7 is just such a thing. no matter how convincing it appeared, there's just no way it's true if it didn't pan out. If it was true, back then, we'd have known about it by now. These "truthers" seem to ignore this part.

I think you're wrong. For example, when the documents were released revealing that 26 Bethesda witnesses agreed with the Parkland doctors, instead of the HSCA's lie that they didn't agree, I think that was pretty "explosive." But did it get any "traction"? Did this make the news? This is probably one of the least known facts about the whole JFK case. You might say it just died out.

Nothing is going to get "traction" if the media doesn't want it to. The media will ignore it.

[Glenn Nall]

ah. you're one... ok.

i don't mean HSCA lies kind of explosive, i mean getting caught on live TV knowing a building that's part of a NYC terrorist attack is going to fall explosive. a wee bit different in the boom department. sheep can be led to overlook an ambiguous "lie" by a governing body. the WTC7 blunder "would be" an international event if it had actually happened.

totally different ballgame.

there are plenty of lies throughout the JFK ass. that have been ignored by the media, sure. I agree with your assessment of the media's power.

but not on that scale. sorry

[Ron Ecker]

the WTC7 blunder "would be" an international event if it had actually happened.

Well all I can say is it happened. Watch the video. The BBC was asked about it, and offered no explanation. It even claimed that its own tape from that day of all days had been "accidentally" erased.

There could be a simple explanation. Maybe the reporter was standing in front of a phony backdrop that showed the building still standing. But if there is such a simple explanation, why didn't the BBC say so? It has never offered an official explanation of that broadcast, unless you can find one.

[Dawn Meredith]

DAWN

Bartholomew did some great work http://www.assassinationresearch.com/v1n2/gtds_4.html (I quote it in my Dulles did it thread)

The UT article is also great.

I should have put in my Dulles thread that Rambler owner Wing taught a Dulles relative.,gaal

Steven, I'm very very impressed with both Oglesby and Bartholomew's extensive energy and research and writing. I only just happened across both of them, have found a second copy of Yankee/Cowboy and am KEEPING it, and at this point only know of the UTRambler story by Richard. I'm working my way slowly though it, and know that i'm going to want to find more, so thanks for that link. He seems to be very trustworthy in that he puts so much work, obviously, into his, um, work.

So many people in this thing just shoot from the hip, conjecture becomes "everybody knows" becomes fact (right, D.?). It's very clear when someone really knows what they're doing, knows their subject and has done some homework.

It's good to be able to read people like these two, not feeling obligated to buy into their school hook-line-and -sinker like you feel sometimes when you're reading someone's agenda - that they're trying to sell you a car. Knowing the research is trustworth gives one the freedom to form his or her own opinion on the research and not the voice, or the conjecture.

I guess. right?

thanks

If I ever take/find the time to read RB"s Rambler article a third time I want to map out all the connections. In fact he may have told me some years back that someone actually did that. With so many names it is quite a cumbersome manuscript. But tons of terrific research. I just love the fact of how he first found the damn car to begin with. Was it just one more red herring? Certainly a most interesting one.