Vincent Bugliosi: The Whole Story

[Cliff Varnell]

Can't help you there. The combination of documented lateral location and trajectory cross the center line of the body, based on that WC evidence you love so much.

Fake evidence.

It's easy to separate the fake medical evidence from the real medical evidence.

Real evidence is prepared/maintained/recorded according to proper autopsy protocols.

Fake evidence is not prepared/etc according to proper autopsy protocols.

[Ron Ecker]

Ron Ecker @ #104:

Ron, you sound like a conspiracy theorist.

I want to join your camp.

I have strict rules, however. For concepts, like Vince Foster was murdered, I'm pretty loose. For details, like evidence, I'm pretty strict.

If you mean you want evidence that Dr. Beyer said the machine wasn't working, that's what he told the FBI agents working for Fiske. In the autopsy report, he checked "yes" for "X-rays made." But he stated in a deposition that he checked "yes" as a matter of habit before he had even begun the autopsy. (I guess it would have looked unprofessional to X out "yes" and write "no.").(Sources cited in The Strange Death of Vincent Foster by Christopher Ruddy, pp. 94, 293.)

[Kenneth Drew]

What if the autopsy doctors had already been told what type of bullet had entered JFK's back, and this discussion about "ice bullets" and such was merely a show for the FBI agents and other witnesses present at the autopsy?

No, I'd be embarrassed to think such a thing.

The autopsists put on a little show?

Researcher, please!

Are you aware that the x-ray tech at the autopsy, Jerrol Custer, testified to the ARRB that JFK's chest organs (lungs, heart) were removed prior to Custer taking x-rays of the chest, and when Custer and his assistant were not present, and that Custer believed an extremely limited number of people were present when these organs were removed?

Did Sibert and O'Neil witness the removal of the chest organs?

They didn't write it up if they did.

I concede the point -- perhaps the round was removed prior to the autopsy witnessed by Sibert & O'Neill.

Cliff

I have a theory about the back wound, and the bullet that caused it. You see, I believe SA Sibert was on the right track when he phoned to find out about a bullet that would "almost completely fragmentize". Unfortunately, he was taken in enough by Humes' act concerning the "shallow" back wound to be able, in his mind, to follow to a logical conclusion what effect a bullet that would "almost completely fragmentize" would have in a wound.

Such a bullet is called a "frangible" bullet. It is constructed usually of a copper alloy jacket with a core made from compressed powdered lead, in a heat process known as "sintering". If not sintered, the powdered lead (or other metal) can be bonded together with a glue. Whatever the method, the bullet is designed to enter soft tissue (or a skull) making only a small entrance wound.

A lethal frangible bullet also has a hollow point on its nose, and this hollow point is key to making this bullet disintegrate after travelling only 2 or 3 inches in soft tissue. Once it enters semi- liquid tissue (lung, brain) the semi-liquid fills up the hollow point and, due to immense hydraulic pressure inside the nose caused by the velocity of the bullet, exerts an enormous pressure on the compressed powdered metal core. Long before the bullet can exit the other side of the chest (or skull), it will disintegrate into a cloud of metal powder that comes to an instant stop inside the wound.

This sudden stop and transfer of 100% of the bullet's energy to surrounding tissue is completely devastating, and likely had the effect of breaking every pumonary artery in the top of JFK's right lung. If JFK appears to be choking at z224, it is because he likely was. He had not only just lost 50% of his breathing capacity with the collapse of his right lung, there was also likely blood quickly flowing through the bronchi into his left lung and impairing its ability to transfer oxygen.

While a frangible bullet could be explained away, in a head wound, as a full metal jacket bullet that behaved oddly and broke up, such was not the case with the back wound. The long slender FMJ 6.5mm Carcano bullet is very stable, and capable of tremendous penetration in flesh. An FMJ 6.5mm Carcano bullet entering JFK's back at 2000 fps, at the level of T3, was more than capable of going through JFK (exiting midway down his sternum), the jump seat and Connally, and possibly having enough legs to still wound Kellerman.

If JFK appears to be choking at z224, It's likely because he had been shot in the throat.

Seriously, you read that entire post, and that is the only comment you can come up with?

I've read all that several times. I just wanted to point out that there is no mystery about why he grabbed his throat, it's because a bullet had just gone through it.

But I will add, that I think he was hit in the back with a bullet that didn't penetrate very far, probably a dud and it likely fell out or was taken out before the autopsy, while all the other modifications were going on. As far as your frangible bullet theory, could have happened though you would think a lot more damage would have shown up.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Kenneth Drew

[Kenneth Drew]

Martin Hay is another example of the Seriously Ambitious Researcher who can't correctly identify the location of JFK's back wound.

Since the clothing/T3-back-wound evidence is the prima facie case for conspiracy, the Seriously Ambitious get cranky and resentful when it's cited.

Renders so much of their work moot, you see.

If he got it in the wrong place, he must've been reading the Warren Report. They never did come close.

[Kenneth Drew]

Ron Ecker @ #104:

Ron, you sound like a conspiracy theorist.

I want to join your camp.

I have strict rules, however. For concepts, like Vince Foster was murdered, I'm pretty loose. For details, like evidence, I'm pretty strict.

If you mean you want evidence that Dr. Beyer said the machine wasn't working, that's what he told the FBI agents working for Fiske. In the autopsy report, he checked "yes" for "X-rays made." But he stated in a deposition that he checked "yes" as a matter of habit before he had even begun the autopsy. (I guess it would have looked unprofessional to X out "yes" and write "no.").(Sources cited in The Strange Death of Vincent Foster by Christopher Ruddy, pp. 94, 293.)

I think Vince Foster was murdered.

[Ron Ecker]

I think Vince Foster was murdered.

Either that or he miraculously drove his car to Fort Marcy Park without the car keys. The keys weren't found on his body when searched at the park. They were miraculously found on the body at the morgue after two White House officials went there to "identify' the body.

Magic bullets, magic car keys, what fools they think we must be.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Ron Ecker

[Robert Prudhomme]

"I've read all that several times. I just wanted to point out that there is no mystery about why he grabbed his throat, it's because a bullet had just gone through it.

But I will add, that I think he was hit in the back with a bullet that didn't penetrate very far, probably a dud and it likely fell out or was taken out before the autopsy, while all the other modifications were going on. As far as your frangible bullet theory, could have happened though you would think a lot more damage would have shown up."

I will respond to your post in the new thread, "The T3 back wound".

[James DiEugenio]

Can I ask a question:

What does Vince Foster and all that Chris Ruddy baloney about his death have to do with Vince Bugliosi?

I started this thread and that is what I titled it.

Edited July 14, 2015 by James DiEugenio

[Ron Ecker]

What does Vince Foster and all that Al Ruddy baloney about his death have to do with Vince Bugliosi?

Nothing. Carry on.

[Cliff Varnell]

What does Vince Foster and all that Al Ruddy baloney about his death have to do with Vince Bugliosi?

Nothing. Carry on.

Jim,

What does Bugliosi say about Gary Underhill on pg 559 of the CD?

[James DiEugenio]

Since you know the page you presumably have the info don't you?

[James DiEugenio]

This is what he says:

One other typical example among a great many: Jones alleges that one Gary Underhill “was a CIA agent.” Right after the assassination, Jones says, Underhill “begged his friends to keep him out of sight,” telling them “he knew who killed President Kennedy, and he was sure they would soon get him . . . Underhill stated that the CIA had Kennedy killed.” Jones offers no support for his allegation that Underhill was a CIA agent and doesn’t tell his readers from whom he obtained his information or the identity of Underhill’s friends. (Jones, Forgive My Grief, vol.2, pp.23–24) Underhill shot himself to death in Washington, D.C., on May 8, 1964. Or so the coroner’s office in Washington, D.C., ruled. But Jones suggests he was murdered. The CIA says Underhill “served with the Military Intelligence Ser- vice from 8 July 1943 to May 1946 as an expert in photography, enemy weapons, and related technical specialties. He was in infrequent contact with the New York office of the Domestic Contact Service of CIA from late 1949 to the mid-50’s. The contact [was] routine. Mr. Underhill was not an employee of the CIA” (DOJ Record 179-20003-10191, CIA memorandum dated September 28, 1967, p.6).

This is bad even for Vince. He does not reference anything from the first edition of Destiny Betrayed in which I had primary documents about Underhill. Those documents were obtained through a private detective service. That PI service was paid by Ramparts Magazine and Warren Hinckle. And the thing Is I know Vince read the book. Man, this tendency of his to deliberately ignore stuff he knew was the best evidence in order to substitute lesser stuff as representative of the critical community, I mean really.

[Cliff Varnell]

Thank you, Jim.

[James DiEugenio]

I brought this back because of this: I just checked the stats marker today:

This Bugliosi essay has become the most successful article posted at CTKA in the last three years.

Its getting something over 1400 hits per day, and over 900 visits per day.

That is a phenomenal ratio, ask anyone. I am forced to deduce that very few people knew very much about Vince, or certain aspects of his legal, and political career, and his personal life. He certainly managed to avoid them in his interviews.

Anyway if you want to join the party, here is the link again: http://www.ctka.net/2015/the_prosecutor_bugliosi.html

Edited July 29, 2015 by James DiEugenio

[Kenneth Drew]

I brought this back because of this: I just checked the stats marker today:

This Bugliosi essay has become the most successful article posted at CTKA in the last three years.

Its getting something over 1400 hits per day, and over 900 visits per day.

That is a phenomenal ratio, ask anyone. I am forced to deduce that very few people knew very much about Vince, or certain aspects of his legal, and political career, and his personal life. He certainly managed to avoid them in his interviews.

Anyway if you want to join the party, here is the link again: http://www.ctka.net/2015/the_prosecutor_bugliosi.html

I had read that. seems as if a lot of people are being mislead.