How Much Do You Think Oswald Weighed On 11/22/63?

[Thomas Graves]

The "mysterious Sawyer witness" you keep referring to is, of course, very likely Howard Brennan himself.

[...]

Herbert Sawyer broadcast the following description of the assassin over

the Dallas Police radio just at 12:44 PM, just 14 minutes after

President Kennedy was shot:

"The wanted person in this is a slender white male about 30, 5-feet-10,

165, carrying what looks to be a thirty-thirty or some type of

Winchester."

[...]

David,

Your buddy J. Edgar Hoover tried very hard to determine the identity of Sawyer's "Mysto Witness" and concluded that it was not Howard Brennan.

Regarding the text of Sawyer's broadcast, I'd like to point out that "5-feet-10 and 165 pounds" is not "slender." In this regard, the broadcast itself smells "fishy," as though the DPD was trying to include what it learned about Oswald at the last minute with what the Mysto Witness had told Sawyer.

--Tommy

Edited July 15, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[David Von Pein]

Again, Tommy, you miss the point --- It's what the witnesses THOUGHT was true of LHO's/"the assassin's" appearance. And look at Brennan's affidavit again. It says "165 to 175 lbs." AND "slender". So Brennan thought the 165-175-lb. man WAS ALSO "slender". It's right here....

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-jTmnYgFvqzM/Tvw3vTpzhsI/AAAAAAAABuI/QJ__Z34iHho/s1200-h/Howard-Brennan-Affidavit.gif

Edited July 15, 2015 by David Von Pein

[Mark Knight]

Mr. Von Pein:

On Baker's FIRST-DAY affidavit, he does NOT identify the "heavy" man he saw on the third or fourth floor as having been Oswald.

YOU say it was Oswald...but Baker's first-day affidavit does NOT say that it was Oswald. [That ID came later].

So what about first-day evidence: does it, or does it not carry any weight?

I suppose if you cherry-pick, Truly's statement does, but Baker's doesn't. Even though Baker's the cop and Truly's the civilian.

If I was a prosecutor, I'd sure not want the job of trying to convict Oswald based on Baker's 11/22 statement.

Do I think Baker lied? Depends on which statement you go by. Either he lied about the third or 4th floor, or he lied about the 2nd floor lunchroom...as BOTH encounters are not reported in the same version of his story. So one is true, and the other is false.

Let's pose a hypothetical here: Are people more likely to lie, or to embellish a story, the FIRST time they tell it, or on subsequent retellings? Before you answer, think hard about some of the CT-cited testimony that you disbelieve. Based upon human nature, which do you think is more likely...embellishing the story on the first telling, or on subsequent tellings of the story?

And please try to confine your answer to the question. If I doubt Baker's subsequent stories, that doesn't mean I don't believe JFK was shot at all [i've seen some of the logic-less leaps you make about people who question you, as you leap to absurd lengths to demean those who ask legitimate questions.]

[David Von Pein]

Mark,

Why would you expect Baker to put the name "Oswald" in his affidavit? It was TRULY who knew Oswald, not Baker. And Truly never said "This is Lee Oswald" during the lunchroom incident. He just said he was "an employee". So, what's the problem? I see none---except a nonexistent "problem" created by rabid CTers (as usual).

Baker never lied AT ALL. He was just wrong about the floor number. And, as I mentioned in another post, isn't it OBVIOUS that he was already confused about the floor number in his FIRST-DAY affidavit? He gave TWO choices in that first-day affidavit --- either the third or 4th floor. So he's not which it was. And when he learned the lunchroom was really on the SECOND floor, he adjusted his story to FIT THE TRUTH. Nothing more. So why make more out of it than that obvious (IMO) truth?

Edited July 15, 2015 by David Von Pein

[Thomas Graves]

Again, Tommy, you miss the point --- It's what the witnesses THOUGHT was true of LHO's/"the assassin's" appearance. And look at Brennan's affidavit again. It says "165 to 175 lbs." AND "slender". So Brennan thought the 165-175-lb. man WAS ALSO "slender". It's right here....

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-jTmnYgFvqzM/Tvw3vTpzhsI/AAAAAAAABuI/QJ__Z34iHho/s1200-h/Howard-Brennan-Affidavit.gif

You miss my point. A man who is 5'10" tall and weighs 165 to 175 pounds is not "slender."

Doh

--Tommy

[David Von Pein]

Tell that to Brennan, Tommy.

(Although, granted, Brennan never said a word about the assassin's height in his 11/22 affidavit.)

And btw, I disagree with you anyway on this. A 5-10 man who weighs about 165 could very well look "slender". Depends on his body structure. Bone structure, etc.

165 lbs. certainly isn't that much for somebody 5-10, particularly if the man works out and is muscular.

Edited July 15, 2015 by David Von Pein

[Ray Mitcham]

Wow, three people all make the same mistake and say a "slender" 5'10" man weighed 165lbs. Another coincidence in a case full of them.

[Thomas Graves]

Wow, three people all make the same mistake and say a "slender" 5'10" man weighed 165lbs. Another coincidence in a case full of them.

Ray,

Oswald wasn't even "slender." He was downright skinny at only 131 pounds.

--Tommy

[Brian Schmidt]

You guys are splitting hairs.

I'm 5'11" and weigh more than 165, but I hide it well and might be described as slender by a bystander.

I doubt many people could estimate someone's weight to the pound.

It's not that suspicious.

[Thomas Graves]

You guys are splitting hairs.

I'm 5'11" and weigh more than 165, but I hide it well and might be described as slender by a bystander.

I doubt many people could estimate someone's weight to the pound.

It's not that suspicious.

Brian,

So at 5'11" you're an inch-and-a-half taller than Oswald.

Do you honestly think anyone could look at you at your current weight of 165 pounds and honestly say, "I think Brian Schmidt is 5'11" tall and weighs 140 pounds?

I doubt it.

And that's my whole point.

--Tommy

[Kenneth Drew]

His autopsy report says he weighed an "estimated 150 pounds."

His fingerprint card, made while he was still alive on 11/22/63, says he was 69.5 inches tall and weighed 131 pounds.

Assuming Oswald was about 5' 10" tall, looking at the photograph I'd have to say he weighed the 131 pounds.

What do other members think?

--Tommy

PS Why is this important? Basically because police officer Marion Baker said the suspect he encountered either on the 2nd floor (Oswald?) or the 4th floor (Tan Jacket Man / Brown Coat Man?) was about 30 years old and weighed about 165 pounds. Key witness Howard Brennan said the assassin was about 5' 10" tall and weighed between "160 and 170 pounds." And last but not least, there's the mysterious "witness" who told police inspector J. Herbert Sawyer a few minutes after the assassination that he'd seen a man weighing "about 165 pounds" running away from the rear of the TSBD a few seconds after the assassination. About fifteen minutes after the assassination, Sawyer broadcast the first description of the suspected assassin over the police radio: "About 30 years old, 5'10" tall, 165 lbs."

at the same age, I was 5' 11 and weighed 140. I'd say he looks about 130

[Kenneth Drew]

As I proved earlier [in another EF thread], it was certainly possible for a person to stare right at Lee Harvey Oswald and guess his AGE and WEIGHT incorrectly. And Marrion L. Baker's 11/22/63 affidavit is the PROOF that that did happen. And, as fate would have it, Howard Brennan said the sixth-floor assassin was around 30 years of age and weighed about 165 to 175 pounds....perfectly matching Baker's inaccurate guesses with respect to the real Lee Harvey Oswald. And Mr. Oswald just happened to be a man whose fingerprints (and bullet shells) littered the exact same place where Brennan saw his "30-year-old, 165- to 175-pound" assassin in the window firing a rifle.

How 'bout that for coincidence?

Baker's 11/22 Affidavit:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4oxRP0t5ZBM/Tvw52B7FIGI/AAAAAAAABwU/QbBHYHhIM4Q/s1200-h/Marrion-Baker-Affidavit.gif

Brennan's 11/22 Affidavit:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-jTmnYgFvqzM/Tvw3vTpzhsI/AAAAAAAABuI/QJ__Z34iHho/s1200-h/Howard-Brennan-Affidavit.gif

And, as fate would have it, Howard Brennan said the sixth-floor assassin was around 30 years of age and weighed about 165 to 175 pounds.. But of course Brennan couldn't see much beyond the end of his nose and thought the black guy in the window eating a chicken bone was standing up with a rifle in his hand. Other than that.............

[Thomas Graves]

His autopsy report says he weighed an "estimated 150 pounds."

His fingerprint card, made while he was still alive on 11/22/63, says he was 69.5 inches tall and weighed 131 pounds.

Assuming Oswald was about 5' 10" tall, looking at the photograph I'd have to say he weighed the 131 pounds.

What do other members think?

--Tommy

PS Why is this important? Basically because police officer Marion Baker said the suspect he encountered either on the 2nd floor (Oswald?) or the 4th floor (Tan Jacket Man / Brown Coat Man?) was about 30 years old and weighed about 165 pounds. Key witness Howard Brennan said the assassin was about 5' 10" tall and weighed between "160 and 170 pounds." And last but not least, there's the mysterious "witness" who told police inspector J. Herbert Sawyer a few minutes after the assassination that he'd seen a man weighing "about 165 pounds" running away from the rear of the TSBD a few seconds after the assassination. About fifteen minutes after the assassination, Sawyer broadcast the first description of the suspected assassin over the police radio: "About 30 years old, 5'10" tall, 165 lbs."

at the same age, I was 5' 11 and weighed 140. I'd say he looks about 130

Thanks, Kenneth.

That makes it 6 (Me, et al) to 1 (DVP).

--Tommy

[Kenneth Drew]

As I proved earlier [in another EF thread], it was certainly possible for a person to stare right at Lee Harvey Oswald and guess his AGE and WEIGHT incorrectly. And Marrion L. Baker's 11/22/63 affidavit is the PROOF that that did happen. And, as fate would have it, Howard Brennan said the sixth-floor assassin was around 30 years of age and weighed about 165 to 175 pounds....perfectly matching Baker's inaccurate guesses with respect to the real Lee Harvey Oswald. And Mr. Oswald just happened to be a man whose fingerprints (and bullet shells) littered the exact same place where Brennan saw his "30-year-old, 165- to 175-pound" assassin in the window firing a rifle.

How 'bout that for coincidence?

Baker's 11/22 Affidavit:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4oxRP0t5ZBM/Tvw52B7FIGI/AAAAAAAABwU/QbBHYHhIM4Q/s1200-h/Marrion-Baker-Affidavit.gif

Brennan's 11/22 Affidavit:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-jTmnYgFvqzM/Tvw3vTpzhsI/AAAAAAAABuI/QJ__Z34iHho/s1200-h/Howard-Brennan-Affidavit.gif

And Mr. Oswald just happened to be a man whose fingerprints Leave out the humor. Fingerprints? Now you're talking Mac Wallace. Right?

[Kenneth Drew]

I agree with Mark. I'm 6'0" and the lightest I ever was as an adult was 164 pounds. When I look at pictures of myself back then I definitely have 30+ pounds on Lee Oswald as he appears above. So put me down for Oswald being a lightweight.

damn you must have a big frame. I thought i did, but I was 5' 11 140 at age 25 and thought I was skinny. Now I'm 5' 10 at 75 and weigh 225 and am not really overweight. A few years back I trimmed down to 185 and thought I looked like skin and bones.