How Much Do You Think Oswald Weighed On 11/22/63?

[Ray Mitcham]

I'm the same height as Oswald, and at his age, 25, I was just under 140 lbs. He looks to be a lot fitter than I was, so put me on the 131 lbs rota.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Ray Mitcham

[David Josephs]

Rose estimated him as 5'9" and 150lbs...

Yet is it said he never topped 135 and was barely 5'9" if that...

as opposed to his 5'11" 150 lbs as he left the USMC... Not sure how a man shrinks 2 or more inches between ages 20 and 24...

[Jon G. Tidd]

Does anyone know whether Texas law or Texas autopsy protocol in 1963 required the decedent to be weighed at autopsy?

[Mike Ellwood]

Tommy,

Not particularly, I'm sure you wouldn't have made that up!!!

Well, being a UK resident and still dealing in 'old money', I look for stones and pounds; 131lbs converts to 9st 5lbs - that's pretty light...131lbs in boxing terms is around super-featherweight depending upon which sanctioning body you refer to (IBF, WBO etc.) which is quite a small guy. 150lbs converts to around 10st 10lbs.

So, all in all, I can't be sure if I'd really notice the difference. Would be nice to have photos of 2 guys of around the same height and these 2 weights as a comparison.

Another "stoneage" person here.

I'm shorter and stockier than Oswald, but aged around 20, I was around 10 stone = 140 lbs, so I'm finding it hard to believe a taller man would be much less than that (and wouldn't he have built some muscles in his marine days which weren't that long ago then?).

So I think probably more than 131, but less than 165 and probably less than 150.

[Thomas Graves]

Tommy,

Not particularly, I'm sure you wouldn't have made that up!!!

Well, being a UK resident and still dealing in 'old money', I look for stones and pounds; 131lbs converts to 9st 5lbs - that's pretty light...131lbs in boxing terms is around super-featherweight depending upon which sanctioning body you refer to (IBF, WBO etc.) which is quite a small guy. 150lbs converts to around 10st 10lbs.

So, all in all, I can't be sure if I'd really notice the difference. Would be nice to have photos of 2 guys of around the same height and these 2 weights as a comparison.

Another "stoneage" person here.

I'm shorter and stockier than Oswald, but aged around 20, I was around 10 stone = 140 lbs, so I'm finding it hard to believe a taller man would be much less than that (and wouldn't he have built some muscles in his marine days which weren't that long ago then?).

So I think probably more than 131, but less than 165 and probably less than 150.

Mike,

I'm terribly sorry but the poll just doesn't have options like that.

The best I can do for you (and equally perplexed Ian) is to give you the following two choices.

Here they are --

1 ) "I think Oswald in the photo weighed closer to 131 (9 st 5 lb) than to 150 (10 st 10 lb)," or

2 ) "I think Oswald in the photo weighed closer to 150 (10 st 10 lb) than to 131 (9 st 5 lb)."

Would you care to vote now, Mike?

Which shall it be, 1 or 2?

Go ahead and say the latter if you want to, Mike. I couldn't care less. DVP needs all the support around here he can get.

--Tommy

Edited July 14, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

Up to date tally:

5 to 1

(83% to 17%)

--Tommy

Edited July 14, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[David Von Pein]

"Oswald weighed kinda close to 'an estimated 150 pounds' on 11/22/63" -- DVP, ... (1)

Tommy,

Why have you put quote marks around something I have never once said and then put my initials after that quote as if I had actually uttered those words?

I never said those words at all. I don't know exactly what Oswald weighed and I really don't care. The KEY is what those witnesses THOUGHT Oswald weighed. What he ACTUALLY weighed is immaterial.

When will that important distinction sink in with CTers?

Edited July 14, 2015 by David Von Pein

[Thomas Graves]

"Oswald weighed kinda close to 'an estimated 150 pounds' on 11/22/63" -- DVP, ... (1)

Tommy,

Why have you put quote marks around something I have never once said and then put my initials after that quote as if I had actually uttered those words?

I never said those words at all. I don't know exactly what Oswald weighed and I really don't care. The KEY is what those witnesses THOUGHT Oswald weighed. What he ACTUALLY weighed is immaterial.

When will that important distinction sink in with CTers?

David,

Fair enough,

Is it fair then to say you think Oswald weighed closer to 150 lbs than to 131 lbs on 11/22/63?

Should I revise the current tally to 5 to 0?

--Tommy

Edited July 14, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[David Von Pein]

Is it fair then to say you think Oswald weighed closer to 150 lbs than to 131 lbs on 11/22/63?

I just don't know.

And before I get jumped on by anyone here, I did state in some previous posts that I do think that the weight estimates provided by Baker and Brennan and the Dallas coroner were inaccurate estimates. So you could assume from those remarks that I think Oswald probably weighed less than 150 pounds (and certainly less than 165 or 175). But I never stated any exacting figure because I just don't know. And, as I said, I don't care. It doesn't matter to me.

But the fact remains (as I emphasize this point for the umpteenth time).....

Marrion Baker definitely saw LEE OSWALD on 11/22, and Baker said he thought LHO weighed 165 pounds. And even if your poll grows to 1000 to 0 in favor of "131 pounds", it won't change that estimate provided by Baker on 11/22/63.

Will it, Tommy?

Should I revise the current tally to 5 to 0?

Yes. I think that would be a more accurate figure. (And remember that Gallup is probably watching this thread too. And they strive for accuracy in all polls.)

Edited July 14, 2015 by David Von Pein

[Thomas Graves]

"Oswald weighed kinda close to 'an estimated 150 pounds' on 11/22/63" -- DVP, ... (1)

Tommy,

Why have you put quote marks around something I have never once said and then put my initials after that quote as if I had actually uttered those words?

I never said those words at all. I don't know exactly what Oswald weighed and I really don't care. The KEY is what those witnesses THOUGHT Oswald weighed. What he ACTUALLY weighed is immaterial.

When will that important distinction sink in with CTers?

DVP,

I'm saying that three key witnesses -- Baker, Brennan, and Sawyer's "mystery witness" -- couldn't possibly have thought Oswald weighed somewhere between 165 and 175 pounds on 11/22/63.

You keep saying that Baker encountered Oswald on the second floor. How do you know that to be true.

Because Baker and Truly said so?

--Tommy

Edited July 14, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[David Von Pein]

And yet we KNOW from Baker's 11/22 affidavit that Baker DID think Oswald weighed 165.

You think Baker lied in his affidavit? What the heck for?

Or do you think Baker saw somebody OTHER than Oswald in the lunchroom? In which case, you've now got to think Roy Truly was lying.

Which guy do you want to toss under the bus? Baker or Truly? It's gotta be one of them. Unless you think Truly was fooled into thinking the man Baker said weighed 165 pounds was really Lee Oswald (even though it wasn't).

Edited July 14, 2015 by David Von Pein

[Thomas Graves]

And yet we KNOW from Baker's 11/22 affidavit that Baker DID think Oswald weighed 165.

You think Baker lied in his affidavit? What the heck for?

Or do you think Baker saw somebody OTHER than Oswald in the lunchroom? In which case, you've now got to think Roy Truly was lying.

Which guy do you want to toss under the bus? Baker or Truly? It's gotta be one of them. Unless you think Truly was fooled into thinking the man Baker said weighed 165 pounds was really Lee Oswald (even though it wasn't).

No, David. I think that Baker and Truly both encountered Oswald in the second floor lunchroom just like they said they did, and Baker (and Brennan and Sawyer's Mysto Witness) simply hallucinated that puny, 131- pound Oswald weighed somewhere between 165 and 175 pounds.

--Tommy

Edited July 15, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[David Von Pein]

The "mysterious Sawyer witness" you keep referring to is, of course, very likely Howard Brennan himself.

From PatSpeer.com (oops...sorry...just kidding...I meant: From DVP's JFK Archives....)

Another theory that CTers seem to like quite a bit is the one that
claims it wasn't really Brennan who gave the first description of the
Depository sniper to the police just a few minutes after the shooting.
Conspiracists want to believe, evidently, that either the police simply
made up out of thin air the description of the assailant in the TSBD
.... or .... that it was some other (unknown and never identified)
person who gave DPD Inspector J. Herbert Sawyer the description of the
killer....which was a description that almost perfectly matched the one
Brennan gave in his 11/22 affidavit.

I don't deny that there was/is some confusion regarding who exactly it
was who gave the first description of the assassin to the police (which
was the basis for the initial APB broadcast by the DPD at 12:44 PM on
11/22/63). But to believe that it was someone other than Brennan who
gave Inspector Sawyer the description of the killer is to also believe
that two strange things occurred in relation to this "other" witness
(with #2 belonging in a separate "Very Odd And Amazingly Coincidental"
category):

1.) It was a witness who was never identified (and never bothered to
come forward to be identified), even though he is providing some of the
most important info in history.

2.) This unknown witness' physical description of the assassin just
happens to perfectly coincide with the info that Brennan supplied the
police and the Secret Service and (later) the Warren Commission.

Also -- If there WAS, in fact, yet ANOTHER witness who saw the exact
same thing that Brennan saw, this would tend to buttress (even more)
the notion that Oswald, or someone who looked very similar to Oswald,
was firing from just where Brennan said the man was firing from in the
Book Depository Building.

Herbert Sawyer broadcast the following description of the assassin over
the Dallas Police radio just at 12:44 PM, just 14 minutes after
President Kennedy was shot:

"The wanted person in this is a slender white male about 30, 5-feet-10,
165, carrying what looks to be a thirty-thirty or some type of
Winchester."

Now, the "30-30/Winchester" remark indicates that the description put
out over the DPD radio by Sawyer probably came from multiple sources,
one of which (given the physical description supplied) was almost
certainly Brennan.

Plus, Sawyer's bulletin also erroneously assumed that the assassin,
after fleeing the Depository, was still "carrying" the weapon he had
just used to cut down the President of the United States. Obviously,
that portion of the bulletin turned out to be incorrect; and common
sense would also dictate that the killer (unless he was entirely
suicidal) probably wouldn't have had a desire to walk out of Dealey
Plaza while holding a rifle for all to see just minutes after the
President had been shot.

Plus -- Brennan's WC testimony indicates that he thinks he talked to
"Mr. Sorrels" right in front of the "Book Store" a mere minutes after
the last shot was fired. But we know this cannot be true -- because it
was established that Forrest Sorrels of the Secret Service did not
return to Dealey Plaza until approximately 12:50 PM to 12:55 PM.

Edited July 15, 2015 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

You keep saying that Baker encountered Oswald on the second floor. How do you know that to be true.

Because Baker and Truly said so?

Yes, of course. Why would I think they were BOTH lying out their asses? That's a ridiculous belief.

Plus, as I've pointed out before, Oswald HIMSELF confirmed the encounter with the policeman via Fritz' interview with LHO.

Plus, Police Chief Jesse Curry on 11/23 verified the TSBD encounter between LHO and "my police officer" (who we know was Baker; you think Curry could be talking about anyone OTHER than Baker here when he says "my police officer"?).

Also see:

jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2015/07/dvp-vs-dieugenio-part-101.html

Edited May 8, 2016 by David Von Pein

[David G. Healy]

The "mysterious Sawyer witness" you keep referring to is, of course, very likely Howard Brennan himself.

From PatSpeer.com (oops...sorry...just kidding...I meant: From DVP's JFK Archives....)

Another theory that CTers seem to like quite a bit is the one that

claims it wasn't really Brennan who gave the first description of the

Depository sniper to the police just a few minutes after the shooting.

Conspiracists want to believe, evidently, that either the police simply

made up out of thin air the description of the assailant in the TSBD

.... or .... that it was some other (unknown and never identified)

person who gave DPD Inspector J. Herbert Sawyer the description of the

killer....which was a description that almost perfectly matched the one

Brennan gave in his 11/22 affidavit.

I don't deny that there was/is some confusion regarding who exactly it

was who gave the first description of the assassin to the police (which

was the basis for the initial APB broadcast by the DPD at 12:44 PM on

11/22/63). But to believe that it was someone other than Brennan who

gave Inspector Sawyer the description of the killer is to also believe

that two strange things occurred in relation to this "other" witness

(with #2 belonging in a separate "Very Odd And Amazingly Coincidental"

category):

1.) It was a witness who was never identified (and never bothered to

come forward to be identified), even though he is providing some of the

most important info in history.

2.) This unknown witness' physical description of the assassin just

happens to perfectly coincide with the info that Brennan supplied the

police and the Secret Service and (later) the Warren Commission.

Also -- If there WAS, in fact, yet ANOTHER witness who saw the exact

same thing that Brennan saw, this would tend to buttress (even more)

the notion that Oswald, or someone who looked very similar to Oswald,

was firing from just where Brennan said the man was firing from in the

Book Depository Building.

Herbert Sawyer broadcast the following description of the assassin over

the Dallas Police radio just at 12:44 PM, just 14 minutes after

President Kennedy was shot:

"The wanted person in this is a slender white male about 30, 5-feet-10,

165, carrying what looks to be a thirty-thirty or some type of

Winchester."

Now, the "30-30/Winchester" remark indicates that the description put

out over the DPD radio by Sawyer probably came from multiple sources,

one of which (given the physical description supplied) was almost

certainly Brennan.

Plus, Sawyer's bulletin also erroneously assumed that the assassin,

after fleeing the Depository, was still "carrying" the weapon he had

just used to cut down the President of the United States. Obviously,

that portion of the bulletin turned out to be incorrect; and common

sense would also dictate that the killer (unless he was entirely

suicidal) probably wouldn't have had a desire to walk out of Dealey

Plaza while holding a rifle for all to see just minutes after the

President had been shot.

Plus -- Brennan's WC testimony indicates that he thinks he talked to

"Mr. Sorrels" right in front of the "Book Store" a mere minutes after

the last shot was fired. But we know this cannot be true -- because it

was established that Forrest Sorrels of the Secret Service did not

return to Dealey Plaza until approximately 12:50 PM to 12:55 PM.

how was Brennan's eyesight, again?