French Connection

[Shanet Clark]

Here are three (I hope) photos of Albert Spaggiari.

He was an OAS paratrooper and mercenary in Laos in the early 1960's.

He disappeared from custody after masterminding the Great Riviera

Bank Robbery in Nice in 1976.

These photos are from his book "fric-frac" (which I reccomend)

and are presented so james and others can compare him with

faces in the crowd at Dealey, Pakse base, etc.

This makes no sense--these are only 15 kb jpegs---

I have 165 kb available....

Edited February 16, 2005 by Shanet Clark

[Greg Wagner]

I wonder about the circumstances surrounding David's/Nicoli's "fingering" Bocognani and Pironti as gunmen #2 & #3. Since these two allegedly have alibis (I wonder what they are), if David/Nicoli specifically fingered these two, then that calls their/his credibility into question. However, if Rivele took some hints (from something David or Nicoli said or didn't say) and sort of filled in the blanks for himself in order to come up with these two names, then that places the blame on Rivele, leaving David and/or Nicoli's credibility intact. This leaves open the possibility that Rivele's basic assertion about Corsican mechanics could be correct.

If those faces in the crowd in DP really are guys like Arce, Santiago or Bosch for DCM, Hargraves for UM, Duran and the other familiar Cubans, InterPen, JM\WAVE, Alpha 66 and No Name Key participants (James has some really interesting composite comparison photos that he's posted on here previously), we have to ask why they were there. Could it be that they were given notice of the assassination and told to show up for front row seats? Maybe DCM and UM were told they were going to play some role as signalmen or whatever, when in actuality it was more like, "hey guys, show up and be very visible in case we need to go to our back-up plan and claim you guys (your group/team) did it."

Just like the attempt to place LHO in Mexico City trying to gain access to the Cuban and Soviet embassys and the sheep-dipping of LHO as communist in New Orleans were attempts to lay the blame at Castro's feet, so this contingency plan for the patsy could accomplish similar misdirection. Meanwhile, the actual doers were Corsicans (Rivele still thinks Sarti was one of the shooters), well removed from their U.S. Government sponsors via oceans and intermediaries. Misdirection regarding LHO and same with regard to contingency patsies.

For those (me) who subscribe to the theory that this was a domestic coup sponsored by elements of our government (Joint Chiefs/Pentagon/CIA/Exec Branch), it is reasonable to assume that such a plan for Kennedy's removal would be very well organized with all conceivable contingencies planned for. And actual mechanics who, if something breaks down and someone gets caught or shot, would not be easily connected to the real sponsors.

Just my attempt to make the puzzle pieces fit. I could certainly be wrong. Any thougts?

Edited February 16, 2005 by Greg Wagner

[Tim Gratz]

Greg,

I believe Rivele was right about the Corsican connection.

Rivele believes the contract came from Santo Trafficante, Jr.

Santo was working for Fidel.

Remember Santo's links to Cubela and Cubela's contacts with Kostikov.

Try to forget all this domestic coup stuff and concentrate on the evidence. The Corsicans were not hired by the CIA or the military/industrial complex.

Remember, Trafficante got his heroin from the Corsicans. It first went into Miami and then (with Fidel's blessing) was moved into Miami to Trafficante and then distributed.

Trafficante is the link between the Corsicans, Fidel, Cubela and Ruby.

[Shanet Clark]

Wow, that is a tenuous thread, to say the least.

Santo was working for Fidel?

How about Santo wanted to kill Fidel to get his action back in Havana?

Steve Rivele thinks the Corsican contract came from Santo?

Steve Rivele is totally pulling accusations out of thin air, as usual, and he is totally discredited, like Angleton and whoever publishes the CIA line on this crime. Rivele makes Gerry Hemmings look like George Washington!

Santo knew all the dirt bags, maybe including Cubela, and so what? IF Santo sent a team into Dallas, he didn't do it for the sake of Fidel Castro and Revolutionary Cuba. He was his own man, not even loyal to the five families! You think the Cubans and the KGB hired Santo to hire the Christian David people, Soutre or whoever ? Why? Why? Why? So Cuba could be invaded and overthrown in the aftermath?

Wow, Tim, I thought people were kind of hard on you for posting your theory

but this takes the cake!

First of all the sentence about Miami makes no sense --

but really, Fidel Castro was the one autocrat in the Caribean that didn't run drugs.

Santo Trafficante got his heroin from Lucky Charlie Luciano, who was in Rome extorting the pharmaceutical industry of Italy for high grade horse after he was allowed to emigrate in 1960.

If Marseilles, Nice or Corsica sent some heroin into the States, they sure didn't steer it through Cuba! The Bahamas maybe, but CUBA?

That is the most tenuous and poorly linked line of reasoning since Gerald Ford weighed in with his theory in 1964....

Maybe the CIA used some OAS cut-outs in Dallas, but Tims' theory is spectacularly blind to the circumstances in Dallas, Washington, Miami, Mexico City and New Orleans in 1963.

I'm glad you posted that coup de grace, we really can totally discount your whole

Brezhnev /Trento /Angleton theory now.... sorry to be blunt, but this posting is really one for the bizarro bin.......are you absolutely blind to the possibility that AMERICANS did this?

Greg,

I believe Rivele was right about the Corsican connection.

Rivele believes the contract came from Santo Trafficante, Jr.

Santo was working for Fidel.

Remember Santo's links to Cubela and Cubela's contacts with Kostikov.

Try to forget all this domestic coup stuff and concentrate on the evidence.  The Corsicans were not hired by the CIA or the military/industrial complex.

Remember, Trafficante got his heroin from the Corsicans.  It first went into Miami and then (with Fidel's blessing) was moved into Miami to Trafficante and then distributed.

Trafficante is the link between the Corsicans, Fidel, Cubela and Ruby.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Tim Gratz]

Santo is an American, but that aside. . .

No I am not "blind" to the possibility that I could be wrong.

But Santo provides the link to a lot of people.

I do not believe there is any question but that Santo's drugs came through the Corsicans.

Santo had an office in the Teamsters Building in Miami. I undersatand that may be where he recived the heroin shipments from Cuba. The people who helped establish that Teamster Miami office had links to Ruby.

Shanet, have you ever read the testimony of Jose Aleman? He was concerned about Santo's connections to Cubela and Castro.

And remember del Valle was killed shortly after he starting talking to authorities about Trafficante's links to Cubela.

Tell me this, Shanet:

What position (if any) did Santo's attorney's brother hold in the Castro administration?

Before you so blithely dismiss my scenario make sure you know all the facts.

Another fact: it was widely believed that Santo was using bolita games to pay Castro's intelligence agents in South Florida. Were you aware of that?

And Castro was NOT overthrown. Remember the whole point of the cover-up was to prevent any suspicion of FOREIGN involvement. That is why LBJ's aide called the Dallas DA and told him to remove the allegation of a foreign conspiracy from the indictment against LHO. The death of JFK essentially stopped the U.S. "war" against Castro although I am sure it took some time to wind it down. Have you read Califano's book how he was ordered to go around to all of the Cuban exiles and tell them to disband?

The intriguing possibility is that Santo orchestrated the assassination at the request of several different interests. Remember Ragano had delivered a message to Trafficante from Hoffa that Hoffa wanted JFK killed.

One person we can all agree was involved in the conspiracy was Jack Ruby. Ruby's ties, my friend, were to Santo Trafficante, Jr.; not to the CIA.

You may think my theory bizarre but it is what Michael Kurtz, former university professor of history and now university dean, belives to be the most likely scenario. This is the scenario that, in my opinion, is supported by the weight of the evidence currently available.

I am still waiting for you to post any substantial EVIDENCE of involvement by "Americans" as you put it. Fortunately, I am not holding my breath!

But as I am sure you read I suggested in another thread the possibility that conspirators were trying to send LHO into Cuba to further link the "patsy" to Castro before the assassination. I just don't see any substantial evidence for this scenario. If you have any, can you share it? Speculation is insufficient.

Edited February 16, 2005 by Tim Gratz

[Shanet Clark]

I am still waiting for you to post any substantial EVIDENCE of involvement by "Americans" as you put it.  Fortunately, I am not holding my breath!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, obviously not......

[Greg Wagner]

Hi Tim

You know I made sure to include that part about laying the blame at Castro’s feet just for you. Of course I have no hard evidence that that is the way it went down (if any of us had sufficient and irrefutable evidence, this board would not exist), but if you are one who thinks Rivele’s assertions about Corsican mechanics are plausible, then this scenario helps explain the presence of the “familiar faces” in DP.

When I concentrate on the evidence as you suggest, it precludes the possibility of Fidel being behind the assassination. First and most obvious is the complicity of the Secret Service. Kennedy was absolutely, deliberately stripped of his security in Dallas on 11/22/63. The motorcade route, nearly u-turn and extremely slow speed through a near perfect ambush site, the lack of running boards on the presidential limo, Roberts ordering Rybka (and possibly Hill, though it's tough to see Hill on the LF video) OFF of the presidential limo at Love Field (to his obvious confusion and eliciting his emphatic protest), the fact that the Secret Service then left Rybka (the agent directly assigned to JFK!) standing on the tarmac at LF, their lack of ANY (let alone sufficient) presence on the ground in DP, their failure to secure the windows overlooking DP, their failure to secure the RR bridge, Emory Roberts ORDERING the Secret Service men in the follow-up car not to move after the shots (agent Sam Kinny to Vince Palamara) had started, Hill being the only one to disobey those orders later stating that if there had been better reaction, he (they) could have saved JFK from the head shot. And of course the Secret Service destroying their motorcade records from the incident, as opposed to turning them over to the HSCA when asked for them, is certainly indicative of the fact that there was something more than just gross negligence on their part that day. Vince Palamara and Fletcher Prouty have documented these monumental failures more thoroughly in their work. The vast number of and the alarming degree to which these failures occurred, in the mind of any reasonable person, can simply not be discounted as “Oops, we forgot to do that.” Kennedy was absolutely stripped of his protection that day by the leadership of the Secret Service (Hill reacting against orders, Rybka obviously removed from the detail at the last minute by Roberts despite his protests). And once you understand that, you must logically conclude that this murder took place with sponsorship from the highest levels of the U.S. government. And since I do not believe that pro-Castro agents had infiltrated the Secret Service command structure, I do not believe that The Big Cigar could have eliminated JFK’s protection so very effectively that day.

There is also the issue of LHO's activities being monitored very closely by very high officials in the CIA (Thomas Karamessines as proven by Jane Roman's story). Certainly, if LHO was a true defector (which I do not believe), one might expect someone in the gov't to be eyeballing him. But Karamessines? In his position? Monitoring some disgruntled marxist? That makes no sense. Additionally, as I mentioned in a prior post, David Atlee Phillips' public admission, and the reaction (livid, according to eyewitnesses) of his former CIA boss, regarding his statement that the CIA never had any evidence of LHO in Mexico City, is very telling. This means that the CIA was indeed actively engaged in a disinformation campaign regarding LHO. They had some interest in painting him as a communist/marxist and were trying to tie him to Fidel. Karamessines involvement and Phillips admission prove that the CIA was manipulating LHO. They don't prove to what end. But laying the blame at Castro's feet makes perfect sense given their proven agenda of wanting to invade.

With regard to Trafficante, if Castro was convinced that whacking JFK provided him with the best chance for survival (a ludicrous assumption, given Kennedy's historcal attitude and actions toward an invasion), then why would Trafficante help him accomplish this? Castro's survival was costing Santos millions. Why help the guy survive? Jean Daniel was Castro's best chance to survive and he knew it. That is until the real prime movers in the anti-Castro agenda, and the anti-Kennedy agenda for that matter, made their move. They ended up going one for two at the plate that day. The Jean Daniel message was then moot.

From a common sense standpoint, while Castro was full of bluster about the Kennedy administration’s attempts to kill him, he knew very well that JFK had been and was (until his death) the ONLY person keeping the U.S. from launching an all out invasion of the island. Kennedy refused to do it during the missile crisis and he shut down the plans for a second invasion, both of these decisions made against great internal resistance. Castro, of course, knew this. He knew that the real danger to him from the U.S. was sponsored by the CIA and Pentagon.

Of course, how ironic it is that the perpetrators' plan to lay the blame at Fidel's feet worked all to well, and ultimately led to Johnson orchestrating a cover-up that would not allow this to be considered, fearing a nuclear exchange. Of course, he placated those same MICC/CIA/Pentagon cold warriors by reversing JFK's withdrawal policiy and giving them Vietnam.

Edited February 16, 2005 by Greg Wagner

[Greg Wagner]

In an interesting side note to the use of Corsican hitmen, there is this passage from William Harvey's handwritten notes on setting up the ZR/Rifle Program:

William Harvey’s handwritten notes on setting up the ZR/Rifle Program

From ajweberman’s Coup d’etat in America Nodule 0

http://www.weberman.com/nodules/nodule0.htm

8. Use nobody who has never dealt with criminals; otherwise will not be

aware of pitfalls or consider factors such as freedom to travel, wanted

lists, etc. Exclude organization criminals, those with record of

arrests, those who have engaged in several types of crime. Corsicans

recommended. Sicilians lead to Mafia.

Steve Thomas

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And so they did. Thank you, Mr. Harvey (you too, Steve).

[Shanet Clark]

Great posts, Greg. I agree 100%.

I was watching Nigel Turner's "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" and the Barr McClellan episode consistently links the FBI and Secret Service to the Johnson group's coup. The "stripping" of security in Dallas is the real issue, and it points to a sanction, an operation approved by the leadership of the Secret Service, i.e. the Republican and Dillon-Read executive Clarence Douglas Dillon, 1963 Secretary of the Treasury. The murder was expedited by the events you describe. The failure to secure the President was the key to his murder. No need to point the finger at Castro, Brezhnev or Yuri Andropov --- the fault lay with Americans hostile to Kennedy. Tim Gratz theory is just a version of the HSAC Blakey conclusion, except that Tim doesn't even see the MOB and CIA working together on the hit, he prefers to see the Mob and Castro.....which really flies in the face of all the work done by you, John Simkin, James Richards, Ron Ecker and other responsible figures. Of course I believe it was a "national security" issue, where JFK was stripped of his authority under the pretext of some drug or sex oriented secret finding of 'incapacity' -- and that the 25th amendment of 1967 really exonerates Hoover, Johnson, Dillon and Taylor ..........

Edited February 16, 2005 by Shanet Clark

[Shanet Clark]

[sorry, still no photo posting capacity for my SPAGGIARI jpegs yet]

[Wade Rhodes]

Did Christian David ever reveal what was inside that letter, that was to be opened after he was released from prison??

[Greg Wagner]

Hi Wade

Not to my knowledge. David is still alive, is he not? I wonder if, after that episode of TMWKK aired, David's attorney didn't receive "visitors" suggesting that he surrender the letter. He might be someone interesting to contact. Not that he'd violate David's confidentiality, but it would be interesting to know if he experienced any blowback from his appearance on that show in which he states that he knows "certain things", along with having possession of the letter.

[Tim Gratz]

To Greg:

Do you really think so many people would be asked to help kill the President and not one of them would object and report it?

IMO, the issue of security stripping is ludicrous. I know Al Carrier, who has experience and training in this area, agrees with me. Security, or the lack thereof, was no different in Dallas than on any of Kennedy's other trips. You mention the lack of running boards on the presidential limousine. Is it your contention the limousine had running boards but they were removed before the Dallas trip? Of perhaps the engineers who designed the limousine deliberately left off running boards just in case someone wanted to kill the President.

It is not clear who you think LHO was. I suspect he was working for US intelligence in some capacity, which, as I have suggested in other threads, demonstrates why the CIA did not kill JFK. Had the CIA wanted to, it could have found a true left-wing patsy with no connection to U.S. intelligence.

Re the Cuba peace initiative, since JFK and RFK were trying to kill Castro bthrough Cubela, that was onbiously a farce--and Castro knew it. Why do you think he scheduled his meeting with Daniel for the very moment he knew his agents would be killing Kennedy? I suppose it was just a phenomenal coincidence. And why do you think Lisa Howard, the ABC reporter so significant in the peace initiatives, turned so violently against RFK that she helped form "Democrats for Keating" in 1964 when she had previously been a Kennedy supporter? Because she had discovered that the peace initiatives were a farce.

Castro's best hope was with JFK who was trying to kill him? What kind of reasoning is this? You know, do you not, that LBJ ordered all assassination attempts against Castro terminated.

And re Trafficante, he was making far more money from being a drug distributor in the US than he had made with the Havana casinos.

So far all you and the other people who suggest an "internal coup" do is offer speculation with no evidence of any nature. There is substantial evidence demonstrating Trafficante's involvement in the assassination, including a remark he made caught on a FBI wiretap, and his death-bed admission to his attorney. Plus, of course, his ties to Ruby. Trafficante was linked to Cubela and Cubela was linked to Castro.

If you have any EVIDENCE that anyone in the US government plotted the death of JFK (other than the non-issue of "security stripping") now would be an opportune time to post it.

[Al Carrier]

To Greg:

Do you really think so many people would be asked to help kill the President and not one of them would object and report it?

IMO, the issue of security stripping is ludicrous.  I know Al Carrier, who has experience and training in this area, agrees with me.  Security, or the lack thereof, was no different in Dallas than on any of Kennedy's other trips.  You mention the lack of running boards on the presidential limousine.  Is it your contention the limousine had running boards but they were removed before the Dallas trip?  Of perhaps the engineers who designed the limousine deliberately left off running boards just in case someone wanted to kill the President.

It is not clear who you think LHO was.  I suspect he was working for US intelligence in some capacity, which, as I have suggested in other threads, demonstrates why the CIA did not kill JFK.  Had the CIA wanted to, it could have found a true left-wing patsy with no connection to U.S. intelligence.

Re the Cuba peace initiative, since JFK and RFK were trying to kill Castro bthrough Cubela, that was onbiously a farce--and Castro knew it.  Why do you think he scheduled his meeting with Daniel for the very moment he knew his agents would be killing Kennedy?  I suppose it was just a phenomenal coincidence.  And why do you think Lisa Howard, the ABC reporter so significant in the peace initiatives, turned so violently against RFK that she helped form "Democrats for Keating" in 1964 when she had previously been a Kennedy supporter?  Because she had discovered that the peace initiatives were a farce.

Castro's best hope was with JFK who was trying to kill him?  What kind of reasoning is this?  You know, do you not, that LBJ ordered all assassination attempts against Castro terminated.

And re Trafficante, he was making far more money from being a drug distributor in the US than he had made with the Havana casinos.

So far all you and the other people who suggest an "internal coup" do is offer speculation with no evidence of any nature.  There is substantial evidence demonstrating Trafficante's involvement in the assassination, including a remark he made caught on a FBI wiretap, and his death-bed admission to his attorney.  Plus, of course, his ties to Ruby.  Trafficante was linked to Cubela and Cubela was linked to Castro.

If you have any EVIDENCE that anyone in the US government plotted the death of JFK (other than the non-issue of "security stripping") now would be an opportune time to post it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tim,

I do respect the amount of work you are puting in here, but the problem is your failure to understand the basics of this whole issue. You are spending far too much time with soldier of fortune/wantabees like Gerry Hemming who would not even be considered to be in the loop so what he says is laughable, instead of trying to understand what others such as Tosh has came forward with. Jack and Jill never came home is a standard of operational procedure from '63 to '81 where intelligence utilizes,controls and eliminates anyone that they have pawned. Consider how the assassination was carried out and covered up within a period of less than six hours. How does that fit into your theories?

The world is a scary place and one does not have to look far for who makes it that way.

Al

[Tim Gratz]

Al, you wrote:

"Consider how the assassination was carried out and covered up within a period of less than six hours. How does that fit into your theories?"

That Jack Ruby killed LHO demonstates, IMO, the role organized crime played in the assassination. Someone in organized crime obviously ordered JR to eliminate LHO. The likeliest candidates, IMO, are Marcello or Trafficante. I am sure one of the inducements made to Ruby was the promise of the best legal representation.

The question is whether organized crime was assisting someone else in the assassination or was acting only on its own behalf.

Given Trafficante's ties to Cubela, and his reported links to Castro, and given the CIA's dealing with Cubela, coupled with the report of a DGI agent in Dealey Plaza, it is not unreasonable to suspect Castro had requested Trafficante's help in killing Kennedy. To the extent other members of organized crime may have aassisted in the assassination, they may not have known of Castro's role. Remember "mob lawyer" Ragano had conveyed to Marcello and Trafficante Hoffa's desire to see Kennedy killed. And Marcello, of course, had reasons of his own to want Kennedy killed.

So Trafficante may very well have been serving two (or even three) masters when he helped plan the Kennedy hit.

Edited February 17, 2005 by Tim Gratz