Shanet Clark Posted February 20, 2005 Author Share Posted February 20, 2005 (edited) [SPAGGIARI, ALBERT NICE FRANCE 1977 OAS LAOS PARATROOPER <{POST_SNAPBACK}> PHOTO POST #2 ??? Edited February 20, 2005 by Shanet Clark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Carrier Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Al wrote:What still amazes me in the research community is that so many put so much weight into the effectiveness of the mob! This crime was being covered up withing the first hours. To believe the government had a heads up that the mob would assassinate a sitting president and allow it come off and then cover it up so quickly without retaliation is laughable. Don't you think that Santo, Carlos and MoMo would have been eliminated within hours to show that this is not acceptable if this is the case? Do you think these thugs had this much control of the government to allow them to get away with it and continue to operate? And to believe that Castro made this happen and not have Cuba blown off the map the next day is also laughable. We knew that the Soviets did not have the nuclear resources to challenge us and would not attempt to do so in giving up Cuba. Castro has survived everyone else because he is not important to the overall scheme of things. "What still amazes me in the research community is that so any put so much weight on the effectiveness of the Mob." What amazes me, Al, is that anyone believes that the CIA could organize an assassination more effectively than the Mafia. And remember, in my analysis, the assassination was orchestrated not just by any mafioso but by Santo Trafficante, Jr., who never spent a single night in an American prison. I am not aware of any other mafioso who had such a record of escaping conviction. Trafficante's record demonstrates that he was indeed a criminal genius. I am sure that he got by with several murders, including those of John F. Kennedy and Johnny Rosselli, and probably Sam Giancana and Albert Anastasia. How the heck could the CIA kill Kennedy when, after numerous attempts by the mafia and Cuban exiles, it could not even kill Castro? Remember, the CIA knew that Rosselli had involved Trafficante in the anti-Castro plots but it was not even smart enough to figure out that a sister agency, the BNI, had information that Trafficante was probably a double-agent for Castro. The CIA? That could not even bug Dan Rowan's hotel suite without getting caught? The CIA, that planned the BOP without giving any consideration to the coral reef that surrounds Cuba? The CIA, whose plans for the BOP did not take into consideration the time zone difference between Guatemala and Cuba? Come on, now, Al, if I had wanted to hire anyone to kill an enemy in the early 1960s, I would have gone to Santo Trafficante, Jr., not Richard Bissell or E. Howard Hunt! (If Bill Casey had been around in those days, my answer might be different. IMO, Casey deserves a lot of the credit for winning the Cold War.) Finally, I should add that, as you know, I think Santo had help planning the assassination, from Valery Kostikov and Fabian Escalante. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sorry you actually believe that Tim but you are confusing outlined operational procedures aligned by the CIA against Catro in the early 60's with realistic abilities of the CIA in conjunction with the military that they have proven in SE Asia and Central America. The mob has no background for such operations where the military in conjunction with the CIA and DIA have proven themselves effective time and again. Phoenix was an early example and then in the early eighties, Operation Cortez was yielding an average of ten successful elimination a week in Central America, all with the shooters walking away. Castro survived because he was of use in cold war politics. Hollywood has romanticized the abilities of the mob and it has continued on through the likes of Wim Danbarr's support of a low life thug of James Files when it comes to the Kennedy Assassination. The likes of Mafia kingpins such as Mo-Mo, Santo and Carlos were tolerated because of their money laundering and aiding in covert operations. A classic example of the latter years is the indictment of Hull in Coasta Rica who was then flown out to the US and is still in hiding of the felony narcotics trafficing. Again, can you please answer why we were in place to so quickly cover up a mob hit in Dealey Plaza instead of disrupting it? It all comes down to timing and ability. The mob does not figure in either. It is time to come back to reality... Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanet Clark Posted February 20, 2005 Author Share Posted February 20, 2005 (edited) Hear Hear ! Top drawer, fine post, Al. Hit the nail on the head. Thanks for posting. ALBERT SPAGGIARI PHOTO POST #2 Shanet. Edited February 21, 2005 by Shanet Clark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanet Clark Posted February 21, 2005 Author Share Posted February 21, 2005 (edited) Hear Hear !Top drawer, fine post, Al. Hit the nail on the head. Thanks for posting. ALBERT SPAGGIARI PHOTO POST #2 Shanet. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Edited February 21, 2005 by Shanet Clark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Greg wrote: 2) It was also STANDARD PROCEDURE for agents (Rybka and Hill, in this case) to be stationed on the rear platforms behind JFK and Mrs. Kennedy in such a motorcade. This occurred with regularity in this type of procession, with the exception of the Dallas trip. Clearly, when you see the shift leader, Emory Roberts, ordering Rybka (and probably Hill, although he is difficult to see in the video) OFF of the limo as it departs, and you witness Rybka's reaction to the order as the follow-up car drives by and leaves him standing on the tarmac at Love Field angry and perplexed (obvious when you watch the video), any reasonable person would find this compelling. Unless, of course, the reasonable person knew the facts. "Keep those Ivy League charlatans off the back of the car [in Dallas]." Order given November 18, 1963 re the Dallas motorcade to Secret Service Agent Floyd Boring. The person giving the order? President John F. Kennedy. Reference: William Manchester, "The Death of the President", page 36. Reading the history books can be enlightening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ecker Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 "Keep those Ivy League charlatans off the back of the car [in Dallas]."Order given November 18, 1963 re the Dallas motorcade to Secret Service Agent Floyd Boring. The person giving the order? President John F. Kennedy. Reference: William Manchester, "The Death of the President", page 36. Reading the history books can be enlightening. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Quoting Vince Palamara: "When asked to comment on the record about that portion of 'Death of a President,' Boring said that the statement attributed to him by Manchester is, to say the least, inaccurate. 'He quotes me?' Boring asked incredulously. 'I never told him (that JFK ordered agents off the limousine). (JFK) was a very nice man, never interfered with us at all.' Indeed, Boring stated that he was not interviewed by Manchester-- a fact that is confirmed by the book's source notes." http://www.jfklancer.com/LNE/limo.html Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Thanks, Ron. Interesting correction. By the way, "The Assassination Tapes" contains a lengthy discussion of the controversy over the Manchester book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Wagner Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Thanks Ron- According to Mr. Palamara, there will other such "facts" exposed for the propaganda they are. He has repeatedly commented to me that the statements he makes in his book are well-supported via his interviews with these agents, documents, and photos. I suppose the proof will be in the pudding, but in my view, his research is very credible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Wagner Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 (edited) Greg wrote:2) It was also STANDARD PROCEDURE for agents (Rybka and Hill, in this case) to be stationed on the rear platforms behind JFK and Mrs. Kennedy in such a motorcade. This occurred with regularity in this type of procession, with the exception of the Dallas trip. Clearly, when you see the shift leader, Emory Roberts, ordering Rybka (and probably Hill, although he is difficult to see in the video) OFF of the limo as it departs, and you witness Rybka's reaction to the order as the follow-up car drives by and leaves him standing on the tarmac at Love Field angry and perplexed (obvious when you watch the video), any reasonable person would find this compelling. Unless, of course, the reasonable person knew the facts. "Keep those Ivy League charlatans off the back of the car [in Dallas]." Order given November 18, 1963 re the Dallas motorcade to Secret Service Agent Floyd Boring. The person giving the order? President John F. Kennedy. Reference: William Manchester, "The Death of the President", page 36. Reading the history books can be enlightening. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Tim I think Robert Charles-Dunne had a point about your flippant remarks (even on the occasions when you may present factual material) not helping your cause. You of all people should realize the amount of disinformation that has been heaped upon these events to date. History books can also be very dangerous when they do not accurately represent the facts. And this case most probably holds the world's record for the topic on which the most mis- or disinformation has been published. Admittedly though, in this case, it's often very difficult to know which books are which. Edited February 21, 2005 by Greg Wagner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 I just read Palarma's article, linked in a Ron Ecker posting. Sometime I will take the time to comment on it at length. One of the things Palarma mentions is the removal of the bubble top. Every photo I have seen of JFK in any kind of motorcade anywhere in the world he is in an open convertible. When did he ride in bubbletops? Palarma calls the publication of the motorcade route in the Dallas paper a "fatal flaw" in the security. this is so nonsensical it is laughable. What did he expect, that JFK wanted a secret motorcade? The whole idea of a motorcade was to let people stand on the route and watch the president go by. So they were just supposed to guess where to stand? Also, despite what the article says, I have not seen ANY photo of as motorcade with a secret service agent standing on the rear of the presidential limousine. I also note that the Palarma article contained no photos. I have made refrence to numerous photos, published on the Internet, that show that the protocol in the Dallas motorcade was not significantly different from most of the others. Where are Palarmas photos to demonstrate any difference? I repeat also what Al Carrier says: why would anyone risk broadening the plot and risking exposure by involving the Secret Service? Regardless of who was behind the assassination, its success did not depend on "security stripping". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Richards Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 (edited) During the Dallas motorcade, Clint Hill rode on the rear of the Presidential limo several times. FWIW. James Edited February 22, 2005 by James Richards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Very interesting. Wonder when he got off and why. Looks like some of the SS agents are scanning the crowd. Apparently none were looking up. Query why even after the shooting none of the SS agents saw anything in the TSBD. Does anyone subscribe to the theory that firecrackers were set off on the grassy knoll, producing smoke and creating a diversion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Tim, Very interesting. Wonder when he got off and why. From Clint Hill's WC testimony: When the cars were moving fast, the distance between JFK's limo and the SS followup car lengthened because of the danger. When they slowed down, the distance was closed up so that the SS agents could get to JFK if they needed to. This testimony could very well be what you see depicted in the photo: Special Agent Greer, was running the car more to the left-hand side of the street more than he was to the right to keep the President as far away from the crowd as possible, and because of this the motorcycles on the left-hand side could not get past the crowd and alongside the car, and they were forced to drop back. I jumped from the followup car, ran up and got on top of the rear portion of the Presidential automobile to be close to Mrs. Kennedy in the event that someone attempted to grab her from the crowd or throw something in the car. Mr. SPECTER. Did you have any other occasion en route from Love Field to downtown Dallas to leave the followup car and mount that portion of the President's car? Mr. HILL. I did the same thing approximately four times. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Kudos to both James and Steve for this information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanet Clark Posted February 22, 2005 Author Share Posted February 22, 2005 I think this has something to do with the blood stains and suspicious activity on the grassy knoll...maybe a false "Secret Service" agent with forged I.D. took a bullet .... cross fire, friendly fire or "fragging" OSWALD, somewhat unstable and obviously inclined to change allegiances, may have tried to take out one of the other snipers with his shots... Judyth makes it clear he was in the plot, but wanted to turn it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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