Did Ruby talk about Oswald at Ray McKeown's before the assassination?

[Chris Newton]

Actually, Jack introduced the guy Ruby killed on 11/24/63 to Oliver as "My friend Lee with the CIA."

Not the only stripper to claim to see them together, I'm going to post a quote from another soon. Clue in timeline above.

[Thomas Graves]

Actually, Jack introduced the guy Ruby killed on 11/24/63 to Oliver as "My friend Lee with the CIA."

Not the only stripper to claim to see them together, I'm going to post a quote from another soon. Clue in timeline above.

Chris,

FWIW, according to Oliver, she wan't a stripper (she says she tried it once and was practically booed off the stage). She was a singer at Abe Weinstein's nextdoor "Colony Club," and she also worked for Ruby sometimes as a "hostess." The stripper who Oliver claims was at the same table that night and was also introduced to "my friend Lee with the CIA" was Jada. Oliver claims that Jada disappeared right after the assassination, but we know that isn't true because she was interviewed on camera shortly after it. Turns out Jada died in 1980 in New Mexico. http://www.jfklancer.com/pdf/Jada_mark.pdf

-- Tommy

Edited September 17, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Chris Newton]

<ahem>

Edited September 17, 2016 by Chris Newton

[Sandy Larsen]

Just a quick note while it's on my mind:

Beverly Oliver said that Ruby introduced Lee Harvey Oswald to her, and told her he was "CIA."

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=16062&page=6#entry333639

About 20 minutes in, I believe.

(Everybody probably already knows this.)

Sandy,

Actually, Jack introduced the guy Ruby killed on 11/24/63 to Oliver as "My friend Lee with the CIA." At least that's what I've heard her say.

-- Tommy

Tommy,

Are you correcting what I said? Or adding more detail? If the former, please explain. Because what you said seems to be consistent with what I said.

BTW, Oliver says this shortly after the 18 minute mark of the video

[Chris Newton]

She served a little over three years at Goree, then the Texas women's prison, where she spent her time writing poetry - she admired Emily Dickinson - sewing men's trousers in a prison shop and appearing at the annual prison rodeo. Paroled on April Fool's Day, 1963, she moved back to Edna but planned to resume stripping in Dallas. She told Barrios that Jack Ruby called her and said he wanted to hire her to dance at his Carousel Club. She told Ruby that her parole stipulated that the only job she could hold was to raise animals for profit, so he drove to Edna with a pair of dachshund breeding dogs out of his litter.

"She liked to take care of abused animals," Barrios told me last week. "She cared for the wounded, kind of like her own life. She had been wounded - by society, by men, by whatever." She also told Barrios that when Ruby brought the dachshunds to Edna, he was accompanied by a man who stayed in the car. When Ruby got ready to leave, Barr walked out to the car with him and asked the man whether he wanted a drink of water. He told her no, they had to get on back to Dallas. A few weeks later, she sat down to a Sunday dinner she had prepared for herself and her two pals, the dachshunds, said grace over the meal and then watched Ruby on live TV shoot the man who had been in the car with him in Edna.

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/columnists/native-texan/article/Know-Juanita-Slusher-No-Think-Candy-Barr-5664914.php#photo-6676988

Edited September 17, 2016 by Chris Newton

[Chris Newton]

Some of the clues I picked up in McKeown's testimony and Candy's little story above that mesh almost perfectly.

McKeown says LHO came to his house a few weeks before the assassination (2-3 weeks?) with a Latino that was dressed in a suit and tie.

Candy Barr says a few weeks (2-3 weeks?) before the assassination, Jack Ruby's passenger in his car in Edna, TX is LHO.

Realize this: both McKeown and Candy Barr live in southern suburbs of Houston within 30 minutes of each other, ( also ironically close to a certain ice skating rink).

[Chris Newton]

Per McKeown testimony he has several interesting acquaintances:

Candy Barr - Knows a friend who knew her down in El Campo, Tx.

(note: Candy grew up in Edna, Tx but because of notoriety claimed to be living elsewhere close by. Her sister lived in El Campo, Tx. How does McKeown know Candy is living with her sister - Ruby? El Campo is just east of Edna.)

CIA Contract Agent Ross Crozier (one of the DRE handlers at JMWAVE) Ross trusted McKeown enough to tell him he was CIA.

CIA Informant and Mafioso Joe Merola. He told me where to find guns.

Mafiosos - the Campisi Brothers. Joe Campisi visited Ruby in jail within a day of two of LHO shooting. McKeown testimony on the Campisi's: Prio says they are good people, they are on OUR side" [caps mine - CN]

So McKoeown's "good friend list" is, so far:

Carlos Prio

Manolo Rey

Fidel Castro

Ross Crozier

Joe Merola

Sam Neil

Acquaintances:

Jack Ruby

Lee Harvey Oswald

"Hernandez"

Joe Campisi

Candy Barr

Gordon Cooper

Heard of:

Guy Banister

David Ferrie

Trafficante

Edited September 18, 2016 by Chris Newton

[Thomas Graves]

Just a quick note while it's on my mind:

Beverly Oliver said that Ruby introduced Lee Harvey Oswald to her, and told her he was "CIA."

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=16062&page=6#entry333639

About 20 minutes in, I believe.

(Everybody probably already knows this.)

Sandy,

Actually, Jack introduced the guy Ruby killed on 11/24/63 to Oliver as "My friend Lee with the CIA." At least that's what I've heard her say.

-- Tommy

Tommy,

Are you correcting what I said? Or adding more detail? If the former, please explain. Because what you said seems to be consistent with what I said.

BTW, Oliver says this shortly after the 18 minute mark of the video

Sandy,

The devil's in the details.

According to Beverly Oliver, Jack Ruby said, "This is my friend, Lee, with the CIA." He didn't say, "This is my friend Lee Harvey Oswald, with the CIA."

I realize that you (probably) wrote it the way you did to indicate that Oliver was talking about the guy she (claimed to have) watched Ruby shoot on TV (i.e., Lee Harvey Oswald).

I "corrected you" to help prevent any confusion or misinterpretation which might arise in the minds of all of the CIA lurkers, newbies, students, serious students, "researchers," and "serious researchers" on this here forum. (lol)

-- Tommy

Edited September 18, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Chris Newton]

So can anyone give me an opinion on the purpose of Jack Ruby's calls and visits to Candy Barr?

A couple things that scream "wrong" to me are the general brevity of the calls and their relationship with the two alleged trips to Candy's.

...thoughts?

[Sandy Larsen]

Just a quick note while it's on my mind:

Beverly Oliver said that Ruby introduced Lee Harvey Oswald to her, and told her he was "CIA."

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=16062&page=6#entry333639

About 20 minutes in, I believe.

(Everybody probably already knows this.)

Sandy,

Actually, Jack introduced the guy Ruby killed on 11/24/63 to Oliver as "My friend Lee with the CIA." At least that's what I've heard her say.

-- Tommy

Tommy,

Are you correcting what I said? Or adding more detail? If the former, please explain. Because what you said seems to be consistent with what I said.

BTW, Oliver says this shortly after the 18 minute mark of the video

Sandy,

The devil's in the details.

According to Beverly Oliver, Jack Ruby said, "This is my friend, Lee, with the CIA." He didn't say, "This is my friend Lee Harvey Oswald, with the CIA."

I realize that you (probably) wrote it the way you did to indicate that Oliver was talking about the guy she (claimed to have) watched Ruby shoot on TV (i.e., Lee Harvey Oswald).

I "corrected you" to help prevent any confusion or misinterpretation which might arise in the minds of all of the CIA lurkers, newbies, students, serious students, "researchers," and "serious researchers" on this here forum. (lol)

-- Tommy

Tommy,

I just want to make sure I understand correctly.

Is your "correction" a "Harvey & Lee" thing? Or is it that Ruby only called the man "Lee," and because of that we are depending upon Beverly Oliver's cognitive skills as to whether that really was Oswald as opposed to some other dude named Lee?

EDIT: Or is your "correction" just meant as a clarification, given that you actually quote Beverly Oliver, whereas I merely paraphrased what she'd said? (I do believe that my paraphrase reflects accurately what Beverly Oliver was trying to convey. But please correct me if I'm wrong.)

Edited September 18, 2016 by Sandy Larsen

[Thomas Graves]

Just a quick note while it's on my mind:

Beverly Oliver said that Ruby introduced Lee Harvey Oswald to her, and told her he was "CIA."

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=16062&page=6#entry333639

About 20 minutes in, I believe.

(Everybody probably already knows this.)

Sandy,

Actually, Jack introduced the guy Ruby killed on 11/24/63 to Oliver as "My friend Lee with the CIA." At least that's what I've heard her say.

-- Tommy

Tommy,

Are you correcting what I said? Or adding more detail? If the former, please explain. Because what you said seems to be consistent with what I said.

BTW, Oliver says this shortly after the 18 minute mark of the video

Sandy,

The devil's in the details.

According to Beverly Oliver, Jack Ruby said, "This is my friend, Lee, with the CIA." He didn't say, "This is my friend Lee Harvey Oswald, with the CIA."

I realize that you (probably) wrote it the way you did to indicate that Oliver was talking about the guy she (claimed to have) watched Ruby shoot on TV (i.e., Lee Harvey Oswald).

I "corrected you" to help prevent any confusion or misinterpretation which might arise in the minds of all of the CIA lurkers, newbies, students, serious students, "researchers," and "serious researchers" on this here forum. (lol)

-- Tommy

Tommy,

[...]

Or is it that Ruby only called the man "Lee," and because of that we are depending upon Beverly Oliver's cognitive skills as to whether that really was Oswald as opposed to some other dude named Lee?

[...]

Sandy,

Correctomundo!

Jack introduced him as "Lee," not 'Lee Harvey Oswald," according to Oliver. Then she claims she recognized this "Lee" when Jack shot him on TV.

You don't want "researchers" to go around saying, "Jack introduced him to Beverly and Jada as Lee Harvey Oswald," do you?

Just a matter of historical (or should I say hysterical?) accuracy, Sandy. Nothing wrong with that is there?

Sheeh.

-- Tommy

Edited September 18, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Chris Newton]

Gentlemen. Lets get back on track this thread not about Bev. O. besides...

[Sandy Larsen]

Sandy,

Actually, Jack introduced the guy Ruby killed on 11/24/63 to Oliver as "My friend Lee with the CIA." At least that's what I've heard her say.

-- Tommy

Tommy,

Are you correcting what I said? Or adding more detail? If the former, please explain. Because what you said seems to be consistent with what I said.

BTW, Oliver says this shortly after the 18 minute mark of the video

Sandy,

The devil's in the details.

According to Beverly Oliver, Jack Ruby said, "This is my friend, Lee, with the CIA." He didn't say, "This is my friend Lee Harvey Oswald, with the CIA."

I realize that you (probably) wrote it the way you did to indicate that Oliver was talking about the guy she (claimed to have) watched Ruby shoot on TV (i.e., Lee Harvey Oswald).

I "corrected you" to help prevent any confusion or misinterpretation which might arise in the minds of all of the CIA lurkers, newbies, students, serious students, "researchers," and "serious researchers" on this here forum. (lol)

-- Tommy

Tommy,

[...]

Or is it that Ruby only called the man "Lee," and because of that we are depending upon Beverly Oliver's cognitive skills as to whether that really was Oswald as opposed to some other dude named Lee?

[...]

Sandy,

Correctomundo!

Jack introduced him as "Lee," not 'Lee Harvey Oswald," according to Oliver. Then she claims she recognized this "Lee" when Jack shot him on TV.

You don't want "researchers" to go around saying, "Jack introduced him to Beverly and Jada as Lee Harvey Oswald," do you?

Just a matter of historical (or should I say hysterical?) accuracy, Sandy. Nothing wrong with that is there?

Sheeh.

-- Tommy

Thanks for explaining.

Hopefully a person repeating my paraphrase of Oliver would include the "Beverly Oliver said" part. That is crucial. But, of course you're right, a lot of people would miss that... myself included I'm afraid.

[Jim Hargrove]

Jack Ruby contacts Robert McKeown

In Harris County, Texas, Deputy Sheriff Anthony Ayo was contacted by a man

from Dallas who said it was a matter of life and death that he get in touch with Robert

McKeown, a close friend of Castro's who supplied him with guns during the revolution.

Deputy Ayo, who knew McKeown quite well, gave him the message. McKeown asked

Ayo to give the caller from Dallas his (McKeown's) telephone number at work.¹ In less

than an hour, at 8:00 pm, McKeown received a call at the J & M Drive-In from a per­-

son who identified himself as "Rubenstein."

NOTE: McKeown financed his J & M Drive-l n with a loan from his close friend, Carlos

Prio Socarras, the former President of Cuba. ² McKeown was one of the few people in the

world who maintained good relations and was a close personal friend of both Prio

Socarras (former Cuban President) and Fidel Castro.

Rubenstein (Jack Ruby) said he was aware that McKeown had influence with

Castro and wanted McKeown's help in getting three individuals out of Cuba.

Rubenstein told McKeown that if he could achieve their release, he (McKeown) would

be paid $5000 for each person. McKeown told Rubenstein that he was interested and

assured him that he could obtain their release. But he also told Rubenstein that he would

do nothing until he was paid $5000, in cash, up front. Rubenstein told McKeown that

he would get back in touch with him and ended the conversation. This was the last time

McKeown spoke with Rubenstein on the telephone.³

QUESTION: how did Ruby know about McKeown's close relationship with Castro and

how to contact him? .... probably from the same people who supplied guns and munitions

to Ruby, McKeown, and other gun-runners for shipment to Castro--people who were ei-­

ther with or connected to the CIA. Who were the three individuals that Ruby wanted to

get released from Cuban prisons? Two of them were Jake Lansky and Santo Trafficante.

About 3 weeks after Rubenstein telephoned McKeown from Dallas, a man

appeared at the J & M Drive-In and asked to speak with him. The man, who McKeown

later identified as Jack Ruby, had a proposition whereby McKeown could make $25,000.

Ruby told McKeown that he had an option to purchase a large number of jeeps, which

were stored in Shreveport, Louisiana, and wanted to sell them to Castro. He wanted

McKeown to provide him with a letter of introduction for which he would be paid

$25,000. McKeown agreed, but told Ruby that he wanted at least $5,000 in cash before

he did any thing. Ruby said he would get the money and return, but never did.⁴

NOTE: Jack Ruby knew about McKeown's close relationship with Fidel Castro in early

1959. The public would learn about their close relationship three months later, in April

1959, when Castro flew in his private plane to Houston, Texas to meet with McKeown

in person.

--From "1959" in Harvey and Lee, pp. 219-220. Copyright © 2003 by John Armstrong

[Chris Newton]

Jim,

Thanks for that. John's version of some of McKeown's encounters with Jack Ruby are accurate as far as McKeown's pre-HSCA testimony goes. I hope to detail the conflicts and problems with the above story and his later testimony soon.

An example, McKeown speaking about Ruby:

"He left about the fourth day he came down. He came down about four times and he left and I have never heard from him since." pg. 612 lines 2-4

The story John repeats above only describes the very first encounter with Ruby.

IMHO... I think the HSCA had a "game plan" to question McKeown on three specific items and they did a really poor job of analyzing "new" information that McKeown revealed almost to the point of simply ignoring it. They were obviously "prepared" because they surprised McKeown and got him to purger himself on several occasions.

Edited September 18, 2016 by Chris Newton