Whitter's statement to HSCA still classified?

[Steve Thomas]

In a letter from Carol Hewett to the ARRB in 1994, she wrote that a 14 page statement from Donnell Whitter to the HSCA had been "withdrawn" by the NSA.

I'm assuming this stands for the National Security Agency.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=145534&search="Donnell_Whitter"#relPageId=45&tab=page

 

Is that 14 page statement still classified?

 

There is something else on that page cited above that was pretty surprising. She wrote that Lawrence Miller died in an apartment of Bertha Cheek's.

I know that Bertha Cheek owned a lot of apartments on Gaston, and I know that Ruby used a Texaco station where Donnell Whitter (I've also seen his name spelled as Whittier) was employed, but I didn't know that Miller had a connection to Bertha Cheek.

 

Steve Thomas

[Steve Thomas]

1 hour ago, Steve Thomas said:

In a letter from Carol Hewett to the ARRB in 1994, she wrote that a 14 page statement from Donnell Whitter to the HSCA had been "withdrawn" by the NSA.

I'm assuming this stands for the National Security Agency.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=145534&search="Donnell_Whitter"#relPageId=45&tab=page

 

There is also the statement that Jack Ruby met with Colonel Sam Baker of the Terrell National Guard Armory on November 19, 1963.

That was the day after Whitter and Miller had been arrested on November 18th.

Does anyone know anything about the Ruby/Baker meeting? Or what connection Ruby had with Baker? I read in another place that this meeting took place at the Carousel. Ruby also met with his attorney that day.

 

Steve Thomas

[Steve Thomas]

So,

 

Was George Nonte a good guy, or a bad guy?

 

Was he working with Frank Ellsworth on an arms theft sting, or was he helping criminals steal arms from the Armory?

 

Steve Thomas

[Larry Hancock]

Nonte contacted his superiors about the approach and cooperated in a sting for several months, with ATF and FBI.  Yes he was working with Ellsworth.  We have extensive documentation on all of this and the process of the sting right up to the assassination, if you have SWHT you will find a detailed timeline of the activities and I probably have at least some of the documents on my web site.  Everything would be online at MFF now though.

[Steve Thomas]

40 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:

Nonte contacted his superiors about the approach and cooperated in a sting for several months, with ATF and FBI.  Yes he was working with Ellsworth.  We have extensive documentation on all of this and the process of the sting right up to the assassination, if you have SWHT you will find a detailed timeline of the activities and I probably have at least some of the documents on my web site.  Everything would be online at MFF now though.

Larry,

 

Thank you.

 

I will look.

 

Steve

[Larry Hancock]

If  you have trouble locating it let me know Steve, most of it is in Chapter 12.  The way I see it is that the exiles who were shopping put out feelers and Mason tried to fill their orders via Nonte who he had a weapons relations ship with..that fell through and the Terrell theft was on a separate track, very likely with Ruby as a middleman and cut out for the payments. Anyway, that's all in the book and their should be document citations that will help, the Nonte connection is really well documented.

[Steve Thomas]

44 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:

If  you have trouble locating it let me know Steve, most of it is in Chapter 12.  The way I see it is that the exiles who were shopping put out feelers and Mason tried to fill their orders via Nonte who he had a weapons relations ship with..that fell through and the Terrell theft was on a separate track, very likely with Ruby as a middleman and cut out for the payments. Anyway, that's all in the book and their should be document citations that will help, the Nonte connection is really well documented.

Larry,

 

Thanks. I had a copy of SWHT from many years ago that I looked at. From what I could  glean, I agree that the Terrell theft was on a different track.

Lot of things I'll need to think about.

 

Steve Thomas

 

PS: Masen was little xxxxx wasn't he?

[Larry Hancock]

Steve, the extended info on the gun deals is in the 2010 paperback edition of SWHT, that came out in 2010 so you may have it.  And yes, Masen was quite a piece of work and I'm pretty sure he had a lot more dealings with the Cuban exiles.  Given that he reworked semi auto into full auto weapons he was in great demand for customers on the radical right as well. What I can't figure out is why Dick Russell thought he looked like Oswald, there is no resemblance to me and pretty distinctive in his own right.  On a side note, my view is that Ruby had a lot of peripheral dealing with guns over the years and was involved in that again in 63, and those dealings had some connections he desperately wanted to cover up.  The two areas the WC really had to avoid were his vice connections and his weapons connections.  Neither were major but both made him a known name as a guy who was eager to make a buck on the side while being somewhat legitimate with his clubs. The fact that the WC actually dumped its only two real investigators, both looking into Ruby in Dallas, is quite telling.

[Chris Newton]

As I was reading this thread it occurred to me I had just read a related document. It doesn't prove anything but maybe there is a connection:

 

[Thomas Graves]

32 minutes ago, Chris Newton said:

As I was reading this thread it occurred to me I had just read a related document. It doesn't prove anything but maybe there is a connection:

 

Just to stir things up a bit, I wonder if Ruby ever took his car to Al and Dave's Service Station in New Orleans?  (Or was it Dave and Al's?)

Dave = David Ferrie

Al = Alvin Beaubouef

--  Tommy

[Larry Hancock]

Chris, personally I think there definitely was a connection at that Jack was the cut out guy for the weapons deal from the Terrell theft...that was what I developed in the segment above that I referred Steve to...

[Chris Newton]

2 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

Or was it Dave and Al's?)

Dave and Al's

There's a Chevron on that very same location today.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Chris Newton
grammar nazi

[Thomas Graves]

19 minutes ago, Chris Newton said:

Dave and Al's

There's a Chevron on that very same location today.

FWIW, Perry Russo, under hypnosis, claimed to have seen Clay Bertrand there.

--  Tommy

Edited November 30, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Steve Thomas]

23 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

In a letter from Carol Hewett to the ARRB in 1994, she wrote that a 14 page statement from Donnell Whitter to the HSCA had been "withdrawn" by the NSA.

I'm assuming this stands for the National Security Agency.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=145534&search="Donnell_Whitter"#relPageId=45&tab=page

 

Is that 14 page statement still classified?

There is more on this Whitter document in this Fourth Decade article:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=48687&search="Donnell_Whitter"#relPageId=3&tab=page

 

Steve Thomas

[Steve Thomas]

11 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

Steve, the extended info on the gun deals is in the 2010 paperback edition of SWHT, that came out in 2010 so you may have it.  And yes, Masen was quite a piece of work and I'm pretty sure he had a lot more dealings with the Cuban exiles.  Given that he reworked semi auto into full auto weapons he was in great demand for customers on the radical right as well. What I can't figure out is why Dick Russell thought he looked like Oswald, there is no resemblance to me and pretty distinctive in his own right.  On a side note, my view is that Ruby had a lot of peripheral dealing with guns over the years and was involved in that again in 63, and those dealings had some connections he desperately wanted to cover up.  The two areas the WC really had to avoid were his vice connections and his weapons connections.  Neither were major but both made him a known name as a guy who was eager to make a buck on the side while being somewhat legitimate with his clubs. The fact that the WC actually dumped its only two real investigators, both looking into Ruby in Dallas, is quite telling.

Larry,

 

I don't have the paperback edition of SWHT, so I can't refer to it.

 

But, a couple of things come to mind:

 

1) I read somewhere that Ellsworth was convinced that Dallas had become a major storage site? ( is that the right term?) for arms. I guess these were being stockpiled for that invasion of Cuba that was being planned - by some people - for November of 1963. I get the impression that this planned invasion was going to be staged out of Nicaragua. When you start cross referencing documents about the Minutemen, you are talking about a lot of arms and ammunition. Thousands and thousands of rounds of ammunition, machine guns, grenades, C-4 explosive, etc. That's a lot of stuff. Had the FBI crackdown on exile activities in the Spring of 1963 forced the exile and right-wing activity out of Miami westward to Dallas and New Orleans? That trailer full of weapons that Loren Hall was transporting, what was the ultimate destination? Why did he stop in Dallas?

2) I was puzzled by the fact that the Thunderbird that Miller and Whitter were arrested in was a stolen vehicle. I couldn't see the logic in that. Why transport stolen arms in a stolen vehicle? That's like a double whammy. But then I got to thinking about the handwritten Anderton memo in Box 2, Folder# 6, Item# 9 of the DPD Archives  http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box2.htm

where Borschgardt was talking about a stolen car/gun running scheme that Ruby was running down to Mexico. The cars were stolen in Chicago. Were the arms heading south being transported in stolen vehicles? Was the Thunderbird part of that operation? Where was it stolen from?

3) A lot of damage was done to the United States by the failure of the Treasury Department and the FBI to talk to each other. I've read other accounts of the FBI's frustration with the Secret Service not sharing information. When we were talking about the OSI the other day and I looked at that Bartimo letter in CD 852. I was reading through the division of efforts between the ONI, OSI, INTC and the FBI in counterintelligence efforts, I was struck by the fact that the Secret Service was not part of the equation. I realize that the Secret Service did not have a counterintelligence role, but I think the country suffered as a result of them being kept out of the loop. Did that gap in intelligence sharing include the ATTU as well?

 

Steve Thomas