A Couple of Real Gems from the "Harvey and Lee" Website

[W. Tracy Parnell]

15 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

I said the 14th through the 29th he was treated either on ship or at  facilities in Hong Kong and Taiwan. The issue will probably never be resolved to everyone's satisfaction but the scenario that myself and Parker present matches the totality of the evidence, while your scenario cherry picks a few puzzling incidents. And you haven't answered my other question-when will you guys be going to the media and announcing you have solved the JFK assassination?

Greg Parker points out that the Skagit may have been delayed in departing until the 16th. This is per the HSCA and doesn't change the basic concept.

[Sandy Larsen]

14 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

BTW, Parker found the following on the Skagit website:

During the Vietnam War, Dr. Rexrode served in the Navy, both aboard the USS Skagit in the Medical Dept, and at North Island Naval Station.

http://www.ussskagit.org/rexrode.html

I don't doubt that a few on the medical staffs of small ships were doctors and not corpsman. In addition, I suspect that a lot of the corpsmen later became doctors.

[W. Tracy Parnell]

26 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

I don't doubt that a few on the medical staffs of small ships were doctors and not corpsman. In addition, I suspect that a lot of the corpsmen later became doctors.

Hargrove apparently doubted it and that's why I mentioned it.

[Jim Hargrove]

The Bolton Ford Incident

 

On January 20, 1961, while Harvey Oswald was in Minsk, two men visited the Bolton Ford dealership in New Orleans. They spoke with Assistant Manager Oscar Deslatte and said they were interested in purchasing 10 Ford Econoline Trucks. As one of the men discussed the purchase with Deslatte the other man, who identified himself as Joseph Moore, made a list of the equipment they desired on the trucks.

Deslatte went to his boss, truck manager Fred Sewell, and told him about the two men who wanted to purchase trucks and said they represented the "Free Democrats of Cuba or some such organization." Sewell told Deslatte to give the men a bid of $75 over their cost for the trucks. Deslatte and Sewell returned to Deslatte's desk and wrote out a bid form to Joseph Moore. As Deslatte was filling out the bid form, Joseph Moore and the other man began talking to both Deslatte and Sewell.⁴²

When Moore saw that Deslatte had written his name on the bid form he asked that the name be changed to "Friends of Democratic Cuba." Moore's friend looked· at the form and said, "By the way, you'd better put my name down there because I'm the man handling the money." When Deslatte asked, "What's your name?" the man replied, "Lee Oswald." ^61-04

 

Sewell described Lee Oswald as, "5-foot-6 or 5-foot-7, thin, about 140 pounds, and thought he needed a meal and a haircut. He recalled that Oswald was clean but "wasn't well dressed and he wasn't shabby." Sewell described the second man, who identified himself as Joseph Moore as, "Kind of heavy-set ..... not overly, but well built ..... he was curly haired ..... he had a scar over his left eye ..... olive complexioned and seemed to be educated ..... he had a Cuban accent and looked like a Cuban."

Deslatte gave the original bid form to "Lee Oswald" and kept a copy for his files, which he gave to the FBI following the assassination.^61-05

 

 

 

The purchaser was listed as the "Friends of Democratic Cuba," 402 St. Charles Street, New Orleans, LA., phone number JA-5-0763.⁴³ After talking with Deslate for over an hour the two men took the original bid form and left.

 

NOTE: The Friends of Democratic Cuba was incorporated on January 9, 1961 in

Louisiana. The address of 402 St. Charles Street was listed as vacant in the 1960, 1961

and 1962 New Orleans City directories.

 

--Above excerpted from Harvey and Lee, pp. 325-326, Copyright © 2003 by John Armstrong

 

Remarkable about the “Friends of Democratic Cuba” were the names of two of its officers. The image shown below is a composite scan from the beginning and the end of the Louisiana Articles of Incorporation for Friends of Democratic Cuba, Inc.

 

 

W. Guy Banister worked at the infamous 544 Camp Street address in New Orleans, made famous by the Jim Garrison investigation.

Gerard Tugague employed Oswald briefly in late 1955 and early 1956 at the 300 Sanlin Building in New Orleans.

On our website John Armstrong wrote, “This well-known incident was cited in Warren Commission Document 75 p. 677 and the House Select Committee on Assassinations Vol. X; FBI 67-39565-66. For years some JFK researchers believed that an impostor was using Oswald's name while the alleged future assassin was in Russia. As more and more examples surfaced it became clear that another man, using the name "Lee Harvey Oswald," was associating with anti-Castro Cubans and CIA operatives in the southern United States during the very years the Warren Commission placed him in the Soviet Union. This man was southern born LEE Oswald, and is a clear indication that both Oswalds were active in American intelligence operations.”

There are other examples of LEE Oswald operating in the U.S. while HARVEY Oswald was in Russia. For an overview, see THIS PAGE on HarveyandLee.net.

Below is a copy of the FBI report covering this incident. Compare it to the Garrison interview excerpted above.

 

[Thomas Graves]

On 3/27/2017 at 4:57 PM, Thomas Graves said:

 

"Dear James,"  

 

Here's the full text of the partially-obscured letter you posted, with the spelling mistakes corrected by me.

 

"Dear Senator Tower;

My name is Lee Harvey Oswald, 22, of Fort Worth up till  October 1959, when I came to the Soviet Union for a residential stay.  I too(k) a residential document for a non-Soviet person for a time in the USSR.  The American Embassy in Moscow is familiar with my case.  Since July 20(,)1960 I have unsuccessfully applied for a Soviet exit visa to leave this country.  [T]he Soviets refuse to permit me and my Soviet wife (who applied to the U.S. Embassy Moscow, July 8, 1960(,) for immigration status to the U.S.A.) to leave the Soviet Union.  I am a citizen of the United States of America (passport No. 1733242, 1959) and I beseech you, Senator Tower, to rise (sic; should be "raise") the question of holding by the Soviet Union of a citizen of the US, against his will and expressed desires."

 

And here's another one that had immediately preceded it:

 

"Dear Sirs:  I am writing in regard to a letter which I sent to the Embassy on November 1, in which I asked:  'Does the American Embassy feel that(,) in light of the fact that my temporary Soviet document for residence in the Soviet Union expires on January 5, 1962, that the deprivation of an exit visa after this date and therefore the foreseeable holding of me against my expressed desires is unlawful?'  I would like a written reply to this question before the expiration date of January 4, 1962(,) in order to have a basis for my refusal to give my permission for the legal extension on (British English(?), or an attempt at such(?) this document."

 

My Analysis:

Other than Oswald's obvious typo ("took" ; a "highly-cultured-sounding" British expression, here) and his questionable use of the definite article - noun "the - deprivation" (the gerund form "their depriving me" would have been better - but, hey!, very few Americans know how to use a gerund phrase) and his obvious mistake in using the past-tense "rise" instead of present-tense "raise"), I would have to say that his syntax, grammar, and vocabulary are excellent, especially for someone who dropped out of school in (or was it after?) the 10th grade, and that your Yale Professor is, therefore, blowing smoke out of his Ivy League you-know-what.

 

Note:  Among other things, "A Russian with an imperfect knowledge of English" wouldn't have used the indefinite articles "a" and "an", nor the definite article "the", as perfectly as Oswald did in these two letters.

--  Tommy

PS   But why take it from me?  Heck, I only scored in the top 98- percentile in "verbal intelligence" on the SAT, and taught English in a Slavic-language country (the Czech Republic) for seven years.

bumped

because it's my thread

[Sandy Larsen]

On 4/4/2017 at 8:43 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

The Bolton Ford Incident

Sewell described Lee Oswald as, "5-foot-6 or 5-foot-7, thin, about 140 pounds, and thought he needed a meal and a haircut. He recalled that Oswald was clean but "wasn't well dressed and he wasn't shabby." Sewell described the second man, who identified himself as Joseph Moore as, "Kind of heavy-set ..... not overly, but well built ..... he was curly haired ..... he had a scar over his left eye ..... olive complexioned and seemed to be educated ..... he had a Cuban accent and looked like a Cuban."

Tommy,

Did you notice what I highlighted here?

Did David Morales have an accent? It seems from his biographical data that he wouldn't have. He might have been able to fake one.

 

Edited June 11, 2017 by Sandy Larsen

[Sandy Larsen]

47 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Sewell described Lee Oswald as, "5-foot-6 or 5-foot-7, thin, about 140 pounds, and thought he needed a meal and a haircut.

Jim,

The description given here sounds more like Harvey than Lee. Don't you agree?

One criticism I've had of Armstrong's theory is that he limits the number of Oswald imposters to two. To me it makes sense that there could have been the original HARVEY & LEE (a theory I am beginning to buy into, BTW) as well as other imposters. IMO it's possible -- maybe even likely -- that the other imposter were later add-ons. Ones added on for whatever purposes they served at the time.

The original plan for the Oswald project failed. So the CIA began using Harvey for other purposes. Eventually as the JFK assassination patsy.

 

[Thomas Graves]

36 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Tommy,

Did you notice what I highlighted here?

Did David Morales have an accent? It seems from his biographical data the he wouldn't have. He might have been able to fake one.

 

Sandy,

Wow!

Nice catch!

"Seals the deal" as far as I'm concerned.

What year did Sewell say this?

--  Tommy

PS  I've read where one of his CIA colleagues said Morales was a great actor, and could play just about any role.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[Jim Hargrove]

Tommy,

I agree about Morales.

Petrov’s letter was written on Dec 8, 1963, a little more than two weeks after the assassination.  Despite the fact that he said his opinion was “based on a quotation from his [Oswald’s] January 1962 letter,” Petrov’s letter surely wasn’t written in a vacuum, insulated from the news of the day.

In the days after the assassination, that weird voice of Harvey Oswald’s—hardly sounding like the accent of a Good Ole Boy born and raised in the American South—was all over the radio and television airwaves.  I doubt it could be missed, even in the high ivory tower of the Head of Slavic Languages at Yale.

I don’t know if any of the Russian writings of Harvey Oswald made it to the public immediately after the assassination, but if Petrov had a clue about Harvey’s uncommon mastery of the Russian language—which amazed the Russian immigrants in Dallas who met him—it would have given additional ammunition to his theory.  There seems little reason to believe Dr. Petrov’s basis for his opinion completely ignored the around-the-clock news coverage of the assassination.

Sandy,

I hadn’t looked at this story in years, and Morales was the first thought that jumped into my mind from the description of Moore’s scar.  Despite Sewell’s description of Oswald, Harvey was clearly in Russia at the time of the Bolton Ford incident, so it was either Lee or, as you say, someone else using Oswald’s name.   (Did you notice “Oswald” was written on the bid? It’s kind of squeezed in.  I forgot to mention that.)

I think the original Oswald Project was a smashing success!  Despite the fact that Russian authorities clearly believed he was a spy, Harvey managed to stay in Russia for two and a half years and write an absolutely brilliant report on the Lives of Russian Workers.  It’s been hiding in plain sight in the Warren Volumes for more than 50 years.  In the early 1960s, that report surely contained a vast amount of useful information for our intelligence agencies.

[Thomas Graves]

1 hour ago, Jim Hargrove said:

The Bolton Ford Incident

 

On January 20, 1961, while Harvey Oswald was in Minsk, two men visited the Bolton Ford dealership in New Orleans. They spoke with Assistant Manager Oscar Deslatte and said they were interested in purchasing 10 Ford Econoline Trucks. As one of the men discussed the purchase with Deslatte the other man, who identified himself as Joseph Moore, made a list of the equipment they desired on the trucks.

Deslatte went to his boss, truck manager Fred Sewell, and told him about the two men who wanted to purchase trucks and said they represented the "Free Democrats of Cuba or some such organization." Sewell told Deslatte to give the men a bid of $75 over their cost for the trucks. Deslatte and Sewell returned to Deslatte's desk and wrote out a bid form to Joseph Moore. As Deslatte was filling out the bid form, Joseph Moore and the other man began talking to both Deslatte and Sewell.⁴²

When Moore saw that Deslatte had written his name on the bid form he asked that the name be changed to "Friends of Democratic Cuba." Moore's friend looked· at the form and said, "By the way, you'd better put my name down there because I'm the man handling the money." When Deslatte asked, "What's your name?" the man replied, "Lee Oswald." ^61-04

 

Sewell described Lee Oswald as, "5-foot-6 or 5-foot-7, thin, about 140 pounds, and thought he needed a meal and a haircut. He recalled that Oswald was clean but "wasn't well dressed and he wasn't shabby." Sewell described the second man, who identified himself as Joseph Moore as, "Kind of heavy-set ..... not overly, but well built ..... he was curly haired ..... he had a scar over his left eye ..... olive complexioned and seemed to be educated ..... he had a Cuban accent and looked like a Cuban."

Deslatte gave the original bid form to "Lee Oswald" and kept a copy for his files, which he gave to the FBI following the assassination.^61-05

 

 

 

The purchaser was listed as the "Friends of Democratic Cuba," 402 St. Charles Street, New Orleans, LA., phone number JA-5-0763.⁴³ After talking with Deslate for over an hour the two men took the original bid form and left.

 

NOTE: The Friends of Democratic Cuba was incorporated on January 9, 1961 in

Louisiana. The address of 402 St. Charles Street was listed as vacant in the 1960, 1961

and 1962 New Orleans City directories.

 

--Above excerpted from Harvey and Lee, pp. 325-326, Copyright © 2003 by John Armstrong

 

Remarkable about the “Friends of Democratic Cuba” were the names of two of its officers. The image shown below is a composite scan from the beginning and the end of the Louisiana Articles of Incorporation for Friends of Democratic Cuba, Inc.

 

 

W. Guy Banister worked at the infamous 544 Camp Street address in New Orleans, made famous by the Jim Garrison investigation.

Gerard Tugague employed Oswald briefly in late 1955 and early 1956 at the 300 Sanlin Building in New Orleans.

On our website John Armstrong wrote, “This well-known incident was cited in Warren Commission Document 75 p. 677 and the House Select Committee on Assassinations Vol. X; FBI 67-39565-66. For years some JFK researchers believed that an impostor was using Oswald's name while the alleged future assassin was in Russia. As more and more examples surfaced it became clear that another man, using the name "Lee Harvey Oswald," was associating with anti-Castro Cubans and CIA operatives in the southern United States during the very years the Warren Commission placed him in the Soviet Union. This man was southern born LEE Oswald, and is a clear indication that both Oswalds were active in American intelligence operations.”

There are other examples of LEE Oswald operating in the U.S. while HARVEY Oswald was in Russia. For an overview, see THIS PAGE on HarveyandLee.net.

Below is a copy of the FBI report covering this incident. Compare it to the Garrison interview excerpted above.

 

So the total would have been a little more than $20K.

FWIW

 

Too bad it didn't happen around April 19, 1962.  If it had, then I'd be looking more closely at the phone call David Ferrie (or someone who had permission to use his phone) made to a bank in La Jolla, California, from New Orleans on that date.

--  Tommy

Edited April 4, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[Sandy Larsen]

22 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

I think the original Oswald Project was a smashing success!  Despite the fact that Russian authorities clearly believed he was a spy, Harvey managed to stay in Russia for two and a half years and write an absolutely brilliant report on the Lives of Russian Workers.  It’s been hiding in plain sight in the Warren Volumes for more than 50 years.  In the early 1960s, that report surely contained a vast amount of useful information for our intelligence agencies.

Jim,

You make a good point. I've read some of Oswald's report. And although it struck me as something a spy might write, its importance didn't grab me. The reason being that Russian spies in America are pretty commonplace. (I met a Russian couple when I lived in Silicon Valley, where I had been warned for my security clearance to be aware of such cases.)

Now that you've made your point, I realize that foreigners were likely not allowed to live in the USSR. (I'm not positive about that, but I believe I used to hear that back in the day.) So the U.S. would have had few HUMINT sources there back then.

[Jim Hargrove]

According to this page on Wikipedia, there were a total of 16 Americans who defected to the Soviet Union, though the article says the list may not reflect “recent changes.”  The list includes Oswald and Robert Webster.  The Wikipedia page has a sublist of “American intelligence personnel who defected to the Soviet Union,” which includes seven names, but neither Webster nor Oswald.  If you add those two names to the “intelligence personnel” list, a very reasonable move, the total now goes up to nine, more than half the complete roster, but still a very limited number.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Jim Hargrove

[W. Tracy Parnell]

6 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

Greg Parker points out that the Skagit may have been delayed in departing until the 16th. This is per the HSCA and doesn't change the basic concept.

Parker points out that if the Skagit left on the 16th (there was a typhoon in the area) LHO was treated at Atsugi on that day and on the Skagit thereafter until returning to Atsugi about October 6.

[Jim Hargrove]

1 hour ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

Parker points out that if the Skagit left on the 16th (there was a typhoon in the area) LHO was treated at Atsugi on that day and on the Skagit thereafter until returning to Atsugi about October 6.

Yeah, and if the Skagit left yesterday, it would probably sink.  If you want to talk about reality, the Skagit clearly left on Sept. 14, 1958.

 

 

The only so-called evidence you guys can put forth is a letter written two decades later from Sec. Def. saying, “Oswald did not sail from Yokosuka, Japan, on September 16, 1958.”  Duh!

[Sandy Larsen]

1 hour ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

Parker points out that if the Skagit left on the 16th (there was a typhoon in the area) LHO was treated at Atsugi on that day and on the Skagit thereafter until returning to Atsugi about October 6.

Tracy,

Let me get this straight...

Oswald's unit is scheduled to leave Japan on Sept. 14. But due to a typhoon, he doesn't leave till the 16th.

On the 16th, before the ship departs, Oswald visits Dr. Kuehn at the Atsugi Hospital. Dr. Kuehn doesn't do smear tests, so he writes a prescription and has Oswald report to the Mainside lab for the smear test. He gives Oswald a prescription for an antibiotic and instructs him return Monday morning for a repeat smear. (This is all on the medical record.)

Oswald then boards the ship and it departs.

On the 23rd, Oswald again visits Dr. Kuehn... oh wait! Kuehn works at the hospital, not on the ship!

Okay, let's start over...

On Tuesday Sept. 16th, before the ship departs, Oswald visits Dr. Kuehn at sick bay on the ship. Dr. Kuehn doesn't do smear tests, so he writes a prescription and has Oswald report to the Mainside lab for the smear test. He gives an antibiotic to Oswald and instructs him return Monday morning for a repeat smear.

The ship departs.

On Monday Sept. 22nd, Oswald again visits Dr. Kuehn. Dr. Kuehn does the smear test, as well as the culture and sensitivity test.

Hey, wait a minute! Dr. Kuehn doesn't do smear tests! Remember? The last time he saw Oswald, he sent him to the Mainside lab for the smear test. Why would he do that if he were perfectly capable of doing the test onboard the ship? And not only the smear test, but the culture & sensitivity test as well!

The reason this doesn't make any sense is because Oswald wasn't really being treated onboard the ship, as Parker and Parnell would have us believe. He was being treating at the Atsugi Hospital. The medical record makes sense once that fact is accepted.