Ensuring the death of Oswald

[Eddy Bainbridge]

If a plot is suspected, then a plot that relies on a man with a small handgun lunging to shoot the victim, and shooting low, looks like having a high risk of failure.

 

Anthony Summers states that 'someone applied artificial respiration- the worst possible treatment for an abdominal wound'.

 

Jim Leavelle stated in a 6th Floor museum interview (On youtube) that an ambulance was on the scene surprisingly quickly to pick Oswald up, he thought this was due to a call being cancelled. He also states that a 3rd Year Medical student from South West Medical Institute called 'Bettendoff' (Spelling unknown) started work on Oswald immediately.

 

Can anybody provide more information on the medical student? Where did the Artificial Respiration information come from?

[Michael Clark]

Welcome to the forum Eddy!

I don't have a great answer for you but I didn't want to leave you hanging without a response.

I have a partial answer for you. Some of it based on experience. From my experience as a hunter, a shot to the gut will be more likely to not pass through than a shot to the chest cavity. So I would say that Ruby shot low on LHO so as not to risk injuring anyone else. Also, while a gut shot might seem more survivable, a close-up, point-blank shot to the gut would likely be devastating. If there was no real intention to save LHO, I think the likelihood of him lingering for any length of time is slim.

I have no answer to your question about the student.

Again, Welcome to the forum..

and Cheers,

Michael

Edited April 10, 2017 by Michael Clark

[Eddy Bainbridge]

Thank you very much for your post Michael, it has enlightened me somewhat. If your conclusion is that this was a reliable assassination technique then my further information is irrelevant. I would however like to ask you to expand on the idea that this type of shot would require the victim to be neglected to ensure fatality. That interests me because Oswald was removed from where he fell (is that good practice?), a room full of possible lifesavers, to a room where presumably access was controlled.

I have no idea what a third year medical student is capable of, and no evidence he did anything. But it is stated a medical student was on the scene and he , under normal circumstances would have been the go-to-guy.

 

[Michael Clark]

5 hours ago, Eddy Bainbridge said:

Thank you very much for your post Michael, it has enlightened me somewhat. If your conclusion is that this was a reliable assassination technique then my further information is irrelevant. I would however like to ask you to expand on the idea that this type of shot would require the victim to be neglected to ensure fatality. That interests me because Oswald was removed from where he fell (is that good practice?), a room full of possible lifesavers, to a room where presumably access was controlled.

I have no idea what a third year medical student is capable of, and no evidence he did anything. But it is stated a medical student was on the scene and he , under normal circumstances would have been the go-to-guy.

 

Well, Eddy, ,,,,, that would require me to admit that I have more experience with gut-shots to deer than I to.

That said, Any bullet I have fired at a deer and has hit its mark (the chest cavity) has transited the chest cavity and exited the deer. Any bullet that has hit a deer in the chest cavity, at a bad angle, and has entered the gut, has remained in the gut. Any bullet that has hit the gut has remained in the gut.

Beyond that, a description of such a scene is not something that I would care to relate, in any detail, on this forum. Suffice it to say that the mass of intestines is housed in what I am referring to as "the gut". Any compromise of that area is necessarily a highly unsanitary predicament. 

I can't speak to what are the best EMT practices now, nor in 1963. I will venteure to guess that not much could be done on scene for two reasons. 1) A gut shot produces far less (sometimes none) external bleeding than you might think, so efforts to stop bleeding at the scene might have no apparent starting point. 2) The rupture of intestines would make, from my experience with deer anyway, the need for opening and cleaning of the gut area a priority. Any bleeding that would require abatement would also need to be done in a procedure that explores the Internals of the the gut.

To be sure, only a sadistic mobster would prefer to kill someone with a single shot to the gut. It seems to me that if one shot, in cramped-quarters, with injury to no-one else, was to be risked, or at least such risk was to be minimized, then Ruby's MO would be the best prescribed course of action.

Cheers,

Michael

Edited April 10, 2017 by Michael Clark

[Joe Bauer]

DALLAS, Nov. 24, 1963 (UPI) - Dr. Malcolm O. Perry said today that accused presidential assassin Lee Harvey Oswald was "lethally injured" by the time he arrived at Parkland Hospital's emergency room. -- "I could tell he was lethally injured when he came in," Perry said.

Dr. Tom Shires, chief of surgery at Parkland, said however that Oswald had an outside chance.

Shires made this formal statement:

"We first saw Mr. Oswald in the Parkland emergency room No. 2 around 11:30 a.m. (CST) Sunday, Nov. 24. At that time, he was unconscious, had no blood pressure, but made agonal respiratory efforts (dying gasps).

"The endotracheal tube was placed (in his throat to aid breathing) by Dr. M.T. Jenkins, chief of anesthesia. Intravenous fluids and blood were started (in the veins).

"There was a gunshot wound entrance over the left lower lateral (lower left rids) chest wall and the bullet could be felt in the subcutaneous tissue (beneath the skin) on the opposite side of the body, over the right lower lateral chest cage.

"It was probable, from his condition, that the bullet had injured the major blood vessels, aorta (main artery from the heart) and vena cava below the diaphragm. Consequently, he was taken immediately to the operating room and through a mid-line abdominal incision, the abdomen was exposed.

"Several liters (a liter is 1.057 quarts) of blood were immediately encountered. Exploration revealed that the bullet had gone from the left to right, injuring the spleen, pancreas, aorta, vena cava, right kidney and right lobe of the liver. The bullet then came to rest in the right chest wall.

"The major bleeding points were then identified and controlled. At this time, there was a low but measurable blood pressure.

"Massive transfusions were being given in multiple sites. At this time cardiac arrest occurred (his heart stopped). The left chest was opened and the heart was found in standstill.

"Cardiac massage was started and a pulse obtained with massage. Cardiac fibrillation (rapid and weak heart flutter) ensued and in spite of intercardiac (injected directly into the heart) drugs, and the fibrillation, no effective heart beat was ever established. When the signs of death were absolute, he was pronounced dead at 1:07 p.m.

"The patient never regained consciousness and died of massive injury from a close range gunshot wound."

After the formal statement, Shires said that the type of "shock" suffered by Oswald was "the most effective type" to kill people.

He explained there are about six quarts of blood overall in the body.

"Two thirds of it had emptied into the abdominal cavity," he said.

He said that while on the operating table, Oswald "groaned a time or two," but otherwise made no sounds.

Shires said that some people have been known to recover from the type of wound that killed Oswald.

"It all depends on the massive amount of blood lost, and how quick you can arrest the blood flow," he said. "You just don't know about this type of wound."

He said that while Oswald was on the operating table, he received nearly 15 pints of blood (nearly two gallons, or more than a complete replacement of all the blood in Oswald's body).

"I suppose he was conscious for a few minutes after he was shot, but when he got to the emergency room the pupils of his eyes were beginning to dilate in the method of dying persons," the doctor said.

He explained that a dying person goes through this pupil dilation from lack of blood in the brain.

He said that President Kennedy's eyes were already dilated when he was brought into the emergency room. In other words, Kennedy died faster than his accused assassin.

Kennedy's wound was directly in the brain which kills quicker than a wound in the abdomen, the doctor said.

Sounds like there was little that the third year med student could do. Almost nothing really.

What a loss to the world as far as being able to determine the who, why and how of JFK's death when Oswald's personal safety was left in the hands of the DPD.

Edited April 11, 2017 by Joe Bauer

[Ray Mitcham]

Joe, unfortunately, according to the Lone nutter brigade, you can't trust anything that the doctors at Parkland said, as they were even unable to place a gunshot wound in the right place. 

[Eddy Bainbridge]

Thanks for the very informative posts. I started with a view that the plot to kill Oswald may have included a plan to get him into the hands of persons who could ensure his death. I'm less enamoured by that idea now. I'm pretty sure my inspiration for the question was something David Lifton trailed for his new book. Perhaps that's incorrect.

[Joe Bauer]

I guess it's just another one of those inconvenient "coincidences" that of the Chief Curry stated small number of Dallas police personnel "that even knew" Jack Ruby ( what was the number Curry stated - "50 out of 700?" ) that so many of those 50 just happened to be "right there" next to Ruby when he walked into the Dallas Police Department basement and got within feet of Oswald.

Ruby stated in his Warren Commission testimony that he recognized Sam Pierce ( Ruby calls him by his first name "Sam" ) at the ramp opening. Standing "right next" to Ruby when Ruby leaped into wide open Oswald's path was long time Ruby acquaintance ( 12 years ) Dallas officer William "Blackie" Harrison and across from Harrison was another officer who personally knew Ruby.  Officer Patrick Dean ( in charge of basement security that morning ) knew Jack Ruby as did Oswald body guard escort Jim Leavelle ( who hated Oswald much more for his belief he killed one of his fellow officers than whether Oswald killed JFK ) and who knows how many others of that "small group of 50 men" Curry mentioned just happened to be in the Oswald transfer area?

All "right there" close to Ruby in his brief DPD basement appearance?

Hmmm.

You might also want to see the You Tube video titled "Chief Curry Lies About His Men Recognizing Ruby " where Chief Curry states that  "we have not been able to find any of our men who recognized Jack Ruby during the time of the transfer."

 

Edited April 12, 2017 by Joe Bauer