Kennedy assassination and the mystery man

[David Andrews]

Roger, don't forget that in those days the government was operating on dedicated phone exchanges established in major cities, and there were secure connections to military installations.  So - no public record, and any record that was maintained could still be designated Classified.  Has anyone sought assassination-period telecommunications records through FOIA?.

Edited June 30, 2017 by David Andrews

[George Sawtelle]

Roger

Lymnitzer was Eisenhower's sycophant beginning when he was Eisenhower's staff officer during World War ll. He had no power even when he was chief of the JCS. He always deferred to Eisenhower.

Lansdale being CIA had no power over the military.

It could have been the air force general since his forcefull personality may have prevailed over the army general.

Anyway whoever it was had to go through the commander of the colonel.

[Paul Brancato]

On 6/28/2017 at 11:43 PM, Steve Thomas said:

Ron,

 

You might also consider Lyman Lemnitzer. 

http://www.progressivepress.com/blog-entry/50-years-after-jfk-murder-finger-finally-points-pentagon-chief-lemnitzer

 

Steve Thomas

Thanks Steve - definite possibility. Ordered the book.

[Paul Brancato]

On 6/28/2017 at 6:59 PM, Ron Bulman said:

If Army is interpreted as Military overall and you step up a level from Lansdale to someone who Might be entrusted with knowledge to ensure that aspect was controlled for say a Harriman or David Rockefeller you might consider General Curtis Le May.  Conveniently out of pocket, maybe out of the country over the border in Canada at the time of the assassination.  Yet reportedly in Bethesda at the autopsy.  Hated JFK.  Had wanted a reason for a first strike nuclear attack on the ruskie's for years.  He could have guaranteed any necessary air strikes world wide at a minimum.  Dr. Strangelove meets Seven Day's in May.

What ever happened regarding the missing Air force One tapes.  Were they communicating with him?

http://jfkfacts.org/a-note-on-curtis-lemays-actions-on-nov-22/

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-air-force-one-radio-tapes-update.html

Ron - I guess you figured out that the more complete (not total) AF 1 tapes that surfaced a few years ago very definitely picks up attempts by LeMay's adjutant to find LeMay while AF 1 was in flight. From what I can figure out, the adjutant was not on board AF 1, but he was picked up on the AF1 tapes using emergency channels to get an important message to LeMay, and that this was excised from the earlier more edited version in the LBJ library. Very suspicious. In my view it does explain LeMay's presence at the autopsy. I think the reason for the attempt by the adjutant is to make sure LeMay knew the location of the autopsy, which was changed en route. If my memory serves, having previously read your links, LeMay made sure to land at the airport closer to Bethesda. Still, I think all of this does point to Lemnitzer, as so many of the military people in Dallas and in the motorcade - most of the 'colonels', per Steve Thomas older post on the colonels, were army.

i know that Crichton was a colonel, and no longer active military. but I do believe he was the point man in Dallas, and very important in the execution of the assassination. There were more than one stand down order, and one was Dallas Police, the other military intelligence. No time to double check, so this is going from memory.

Edited June 30, 2017 by Paul Brancato

[Roger DeLaria]

2 hours ago, David Andrews said:

Roger, don't forget that in those days the government was operating on dedicated phone exchanges established in major cities, and there were secure connections to military installations.  So - no public record, and any record that was maintained could still be designated Classified.  Has anyone sought assassination-period telecommunications records through FOIA?.

David,

Ok, dedicated phone lines and no public record makes sense, I didn't realize that.

2 hours ago, George Sawtelle said:

Roger

Lymnitzer was Eisenhower's sycophant beginning when he was Eisenhower's staff officer during World War ll. He had no power even when he was chief of the JCS. He always deferred to Eisenhower.

Lansdale being CIA had no power over the military.

It could have been the air force general since his forcefull personality may have prevailed over the army general.

Anyway whoever it was had to go through the commander of the colonel.

Lansdale wore a Air Force uniform, and didn't he have the rank of Major General, courtesy of Dulles pulling some strings? I remember hearing Prouty talking about that somewhere.

How many people really knew that Lansdale was working for the CIA? I'd guess very few. Prouty, maybe a few others?

[Roger DeLaria]

On 6/29/2017 at 0:43 AM, Steve Thomas said:

Ron,

 

You might also consider Lyman Lemnitzer. 

http://www.progressivepress.com/blog-entry/50-years-after-jfk-murder-finger-finally-points-pentagon-chief-lemnitzer

 

Steve Thomas

Thanks Steve, that looks good, I think I'm going to pick that up as well.

I could see Lemnitzer using Lansdale through Dulles to orchestrate Dallas. I never really gave much thought to Lemnitzer before. Sounds interesting.

Edited June 30, 2017 by Roger DeLaria

[Steve Thomas]

On 6/29/2017 at 1:43 AM, Steve Thomas said:

Ron,

 

You might also consider Lyman Lemnitzer. 

http://www.progressivepress.com/blog-entry/50-years-after-jfk-murder-finger-finally-points-pentagon-chief-lemnitzer

 

Steve Thomas

Lately, I've also been mulling over the idea of "resentment as motive", and tying that to individuals who were demoted and shipped off to Europe to get them out of the way.

Wasn't Bill Harvey demoted and sent off to be Station Chief in Rome?  

Although Dulles wasn't transferred when he was fired, his connections to the OSS in Bern during WWII would qualify him to be included in this mix I think.

NATO’s Secret Armies. Operation GLADIO and the Strategy of Tension

Interview with Dr. Daniele Ganser

 

http://themillenniumreport.com/2017/04/natos-secret-armies-operation-gladio-and-the-strategy-of-tension/

"JC:  Returning to Lemnitzer, he’s in charge of the group that suggests this, (Operation Northwoods) and then he becomes Head of NATO around the same time when these stay-behind armies start to morph into something much more hideous.

 

DG:  Yes, that’s right, and we must thank JFK that when he learned of Operation Northwoods, he rejected it. However, he then had the problem of what to do with this top general Lemnitzer, who was clearly nuts (in the sense that he planned terrorism in the US). Kennedy now suspected that the military-industrial-complex was more dangerous than he had realised, so he judged that he needed to move Lemnitzer sideways to another high position (maybe slightly lower) so that it wouldn’t look like a demotion. He came up with the idea of NATO Commander in Europe. A year later, in 1963, Kennedy was assassinated. Although it’s still unclear who killed him, we do know that he tried to confront what Eisenhower, in his farewell address, called the military-industrial-complex. (It’s no hoax, as some people think; the military-industrial-complex exists, and the documents of Operation Northwoods prove that it plans fabricated terrorist attacks.)"

 

So, in this sense, was the JFK assassination a foreign-born conspiracy?

 

Steve Thomas

 

[George Sawtelle]

Steve

Lymnitzer had no power. He owed everything he had to Eisenhower. Eisenhower appointed him chief of the JCS.

Even as head of NATO he still deferred to Ike. He could do anything he wanted to do with the approval of Ike. In Europe much like the US Eisenhower was adored. So if Lymnitzer had the okay from Ike Lymnitzer would have the support of the Europeans also.

If Lymnitzer set up Kennedy he had the approval of Ike.

[Paul Brancato]

George - do you have proof of ongoing contacts between Ike and Lemnitzer after the 1960 election?

[George Sawtelle]

Paul

I doubt there is any documentation on the onfo you seek.

Lymnitzer was a career staff officer. I believe he commanded a division in Korea and that was the closest he came to combat. Do you think Curtis Lemay would follow his lead? He was only in the position he was in because of Eisenhower.

[Paul Brancato]

Perhaps you underestimate the perfidy of these two.

 

[George Sawtelle]

Paul

I don't doubt that. Either one is capable but LeMay was more independent than Lymnitzer. LeMay would never defer to Eisenhower. But the other would.

Eisenhower needed someone who would be loyal to him after he left the presidency, someone who would keep him posted to perhaps  make sure his acquiesence in the Iranian and Guatemalan coups would be covered up.

Dulles said all his covert activities were known and approved by "higher authority". I doubt Ike would want that to become public knowledge.

Edited July 2, 2017 by George Sawtelle

[George Sawtelle]

Roger

From Kinzer, "The Brothers", pg 194.

Allen chose one of his favorite operatives, Edward Lansdale, to coach Diem toward popularity and ultimately to victory over Ho. In the Phlippines during the early 1950's, Lansdale had raised and obscure politician, Roman Magsaysay, to leadership and helped him crush a guerrilla insurgency, using  tactics ranging from folklore-based propaganda to election rigging to napalm bombing. Now Lansdale would be sent to Saigon, with the rank of an air force colonel and cover as an assistant air attache, to work the same magic with Diem.

It appears Lansdale was CIA with an air force cover.