Oswald’s Proficiency in the Russian Language

[David Lifton]

On 9/19/2017 at 11:15 AM, Paul Trejo said:

Sandy,

Lee Harvey Oswald was unusually intelligent.  His cousin, Marilyn Murret, told the WC that young Lee would "read Encyclopedias the way other people would read novels."

Lee was self-educated from a very young age, being a latch-key kid, and having nothing else to do except read.  However, he dropped out of high school to join the Marines.

Marine buddy Nelson Delgado told the WC that he remembers that it was January, 1959, when Lee Harvey Oswald decided to help Fidel Castro and the Cuban cause (like many other young Americans in 1959, including Harry Dean, Gerry Patrick Hemming, Loran Hall, and Frank Sturgis).

At first Lee decided to learn Spanish, so that when he got out of the Marines at the end of 1959, he would travel to Cuba and help.  Nelson himself was a native Spanish speaker, so he attempted to help Lee learn Spanish.  He said that Lee was a very fast learner.  However, by February, 1959, Lee decided to learn Russian, instead.  Naturally, Nelson could not help Lee with this project, so he felt left out. 

Nelson didn't understand why Lee wanted to learn Russian all of a sudden.  But he did remember that Lee was always on Marine Base (at El Toro, California) and did not leave base with the other Marines on the weekend (except one time, when they went to Tijuana; Lee never went again).  Lee spent all his time listening to Berlitz Language tapes, and reading Russian magazines and newspapers.

Some of the Marines were miffed as Oswald for standing out that way, so they complained to their CO.  The CO questioned Oswald, and then decided that if a US citizen wanted to teach himself Russian, then he had every right.  And he permitted Oswald to continue to study Russian on his own.

Near the end of summer, 1959, Oswald decided he was ready for a Russian test, and so he asked his CO to set up a Russian test for him -- which the CO did.  Oswald didn't pass the test -- his grade was about 50/50.   By the end of 1959, Lee Oswald had decided to move to the USSR, and without surrendering his US passport or US citizenship, entered Russia on a temporary permit.

By allowing himself to become immersed in the Russian culture, from late 1959 to mid-1962 -- Oswald used the most important strategy for learning any foreign language -- immersion.  After 2.5 years of speaking no other language than Russian -- within a fully adult Russian working and living community -- Lee Harvey Oswald had an impressive command of the Russian language.

This was despite the fact that Oswald was a high-school dropout.   By contrast, the wealthy Ruth Paine studied Russian grammar in classrooms from high-school through college, and she told the WC that she could not carry on an ordinary Russian conversation with a native speaker.  This -- by the way -- is the norm.  Until we actually immerse ourselves in a foreign language for some period of time, then our conversation in that language sounds as amateur as travel-book sentences.

So -- Oswald's mastery of the Russian language was due to his immersion in the  language 1959-1962.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

I pursued this at some lengths some years back, with two persons with experience in teaching foreign languages.

The conclusion I arrived at: Oswald was "linguistically gifted."

I'll have more to say on this in the future, but the bottom line is that Oswald's "learning curve" --when it came to learning a language--was rather rapid. And this would hold true for any language.  Place Oswald in a "linguistic environment" and he would "pick it up"--whether it was French, Russian, or Greek.

Of course, this made him good material for a spy agency; but that's in a way besides the point.  Here's what is more pertinent: Oswald would certainly not want to reveal how fluent he was when he first arrived in the USSR, because that would constitute circumstantial evidence that he had received professional training.  I'm not saying he didn't receive (some) such training--in fact, I believe he did, in especially in the spring of 1959.  What I am saying is that he could pick up the essentials of a language very rapidly, and the technical reasons for his having this ability were explained to me by two persons involved in linguistics, and what is called "professionally" - - "second language acquisition."

Oswald spoke English (of course) plus Russian, plus some Spanish, and he was studying German.

FYI:  When he was studying German, he was using a deck of Russian flash cards. (!)

FYI: I spoke with Priscilla McMillan about all this around 1995 (approx), and she assured me that during her meeting with Oswald, he spoke not a word of Russian.  As far as I'm concerned, that's the result of deliberate concealment.  Look at her notes and you will see reference to his having studied via the Berlitz method, but --if so--that implies he had a tutor of some sort.  You cannot gain fluency in a language--any language--by reading a book, or just "studying vocabulary."  One must have a dialogue partner.

More another time.

So. . .. total immersion? Sure. . but you could immerse me for 24/hrs a day, and I would never attain that level of fluency.  My practical experience in all of this: I studied French for 4 years in high school, and one year in college.  In the summer of 1961, I spent two months in France. . . yes, the "immersion" helped--for awhile I was even "dreaming in French"--but I do not consider myself "linguistically gifted" (as was Oswald) and my accent was a dead give away.

As one teacher explained it to me: when someone has a perfect (or near perfect) accent, that's the tip-off that they are linguistically gifted.

DSL

9/30/2017  8 p.m. PDT

Los Angeles, California

[David Lifton]

On 9/20/2017 at 7:23 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

What's your source for that, Paul?

 

See Priscilla McMillan's handwritten notes.

As for "all his time," I have a 1993 interview with someone who apparently had direct knowledge of Oswald's activities while at El Toro, and this witness reported (to me) Oswald's involvement with a tape recorder, in the colonel's office. Will have to check my records. But it became clear to me, at that time, that Oswald was either using a tape recorder, or had some "off-base" tutoring.  But he was a very rapid learner.

Want to know the "best evidence" for this?  Just compare these two pieces of data:  the military language test he took in January or Feb 1959 with his performance when he was dating Rosaleen Quinn, around June or July, 1959.  Comparing those two pieces of data and you can see the rapid advance he made in the language (i.e., in his fluency in the language) between those two dates.  That indicates (a) a tutor (or dialogue partner) and (b) a rapid learning curve.

Bottom line: he was linguistically gifted, and then--when he "defected"--he hid his new found linguistic ability (and with good reason).

As for "total immersion". . .by the time he returned from the USSR (June 1962), had had the benefit of 14 months of marriage to Marina, who spoke "beautiful Russian" (per Jeanne DeM and George, too, I think).

DSL

9/30/2017 - 8 pm PDT

Los Angeles, California

[Sandy Larsen]

28 minutes ago, David Lifton said:

 

On 9/20/2017 at 8:23 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

 

On 9/19/2017 at 12:15 PM, Paul Trejo said:

Lee spent all his time listening to Berlitz Language tapes...

What's your source for that, Paul?

 

See Priscilla McMillan's handwritten notes.

 

 

Which means that Oswald told Priscilla McMillan -- just after he'd arrived in Moscow -- that he used the Berlitz system to speak what little Russian he could speak. (Remember, Oswald didn't let on his excellent Russian speaking ability while in Russia.) Which sounds like a good cover story should anybody ask Oswald how he learned Russian. It doesn't necessarily mean that he actually did use the system.

 

[James Norwood]

16 hours ago, David Lifton said:

When he was studying German, he was using a deck of Russian flash cards. (!)

David,

I really appreciate you taking time out to post on this thread. 

In my study of the topic of Oswald's proficiency in Russia language, I have searched for years in the attempt to locate evidence of Oswald actually at work in learning a foreign language.

In your post, you suggest that Oswald was an innately gifted linguist, and you indicate that at one point, Oswald was using "a deck of Russian flash cards" in order to teach himself German.  This is the exact kind of detail that I have seeking to locate for years.

But what is your source for the detail of the flashcards?

If the source is Priscilla McMillian, it must be dismissed out of hand as unreliable.  McMillan herself surely did not witness Oswald at work with the flashcards.  If she learned about it from Oswald or read an account of the flashcards, this is nonetheless unverifiable, hearsay evidence.

So, please let me know if you have a more detailed reference for the flashcards.

Thanks!


James

[Sandy Larsen]

17 hours ago, David Lifton said:

When [Oswald] was studying German, he was using a deck of Russian flash cards. (!)

Which is exactly what a native speaker of Russian would do!

Just sayin' . . . .

 

[Paul Trejo]

On ‎9‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 10:16 PM, David Lifton said:

...As for "total immersion". . .by the time he returned from the USSR (June 1962), had had the benefit of 14 months of marriage to Marina, who spoke "beautiful Russian" (per Jeanne DeM and George, too, I think).

DSL

David,

Speaking of Marina's language ability, we have WC testimony that Marina in her infancy was raised by her grandmother. 

Now, her grandmother was from the upper class before the Russian Revolution, and had gone to a finishing school as any proper young lady.  So, when Marina Oswald was a little girl, she heard and learned Aristocratic Russian.  The Queen's English, we might say today.

The 'best evidence' for this might be the WC testimony of Peter and Paul Gregory, father and son.   The elder had given Lee Harvey Oswald a letter of recommendation in Russian translation, in Fort Worth, 1962.   Yet when the younger wanted to study Russian conversation that summer, before returning to college, he conferred with his father.

They visited Lee and Marina at Robert Oswald's house.  (This was very soon after Lee returned to the USA from Russia with Marina.)  The father and son chose Marina, not Lee, as his tutor.  The younger would pay Marina double the minimum wage for this instruction.

Robert Oswald hinted that this made Lee jealous.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited October 2, 2017 by Paul Trejo
typos

[Mathias Baumann]

On ‎01‎.‎10‎.‎2017 at 5:16 AM, David Lifton said:

....

As for "all his time," I have a 1993 interview with someone who apparently had direct knowledge of Oswald's activities while at El Toro, and this witness reported (to me) Oswald's involvement with a tape recorder, in the colonel's office. Will have to check my records. But it became clear to me, at that time, that Oswald was either using a tape recorder, or had some "off-base" tutoring.  But he was a very rapid learner.

...

DSL

9/30/2017 - 8 pm PDT

Los Angeles, California

Highly interesting. Please elaborate on that when you've found your notes, thank you!

[Paul Trejo]

On ‎9‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 10:07 PM, David Lifton said:

...So. . .. total immersion? Sure. . but you could immerse me for 24/hrs a day, and I would never attain that level of fluency.  My practical experience in all of this: I studied French for 4 years in high school, and one year in college.  In the summer of 1961, I spent two months in France. . . yes, the "immersion" helped--for awhile I was even "dreaming in French"--but I do not consider myself "linguistically gifted" (as was Oswald) and my accent was a dead give away.

As one teacher explained it to me: when someone has a perfect (or near perfect) accent, that's the tip-off that they are linguistically gifted.

DSL

9/30/2017  8 p.m. PDT

Los Angeles, California

David,. 

I have no problem regarding Lee Harvey Oswald as linguistically gifted.

My point is that he didn't need to be gifted to learn Russian to a beginner level in nine months -- he only needed to be motivated.

He was motivated.

As for immersion, you cannot rightly compare your 2 month immersion in France with Lee Harvey Oswald's 2 year immersion in Russia.

We were taught in ESL class that the Immersion curve starts out slowly, and gains a sharp spike of momentum after the first nine months.

As for Oswald's accent, Peter Gregory told the WC that Oswald had a Polish accent.

Also, Gregory's letter of recommendation for Oswald was only for translation, not teaching or tutoring.

Gregory simply took a Russian book from his shelf, opened it to a random page and told Oswald to translate it out loud.  Oswald did an excellent job, so Gregory gave him the letter.  Remember this was Fort Worth and not the United Nations.   

When Gregory sought a Russian tutor for his college age son he chose Marina Oswald right away.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited October 3, 2017 by Paul Trejo
typos

[David Lifton]

On 10/1/2017 at 1:10 PM, James Norwood said:

David,

I really appreciate you taking time out to post on this thread. 

In my study of the topic of Oswald's proficiency in Russia language, I have searched for years in the attempt to locate evidence of Oswald actually at work in learning a foreign language.

In your post, you suggest that Oswald was an innately gifted linguist, and you indicate that at one point, Oswald was using "a deck of Russian flash cards" in order to teach himself German.  This is the exact kind of detail that I have seeking to locate for years.

But what is your source for the detail of the flashcards?

If the source is Priscilla McMillian, it must be dismissed out of hand as unreliable.  McMillan herself surely did not witness Oswald at work with the flashcards.  If she learned about it from Oswald or read an account of the flashcards, this is nonetheless unverifiable, hearsay evidence.

So, please let me know if you have a more detailed reference for the flashcards.

Thanks!


James

Sorry for the delay. Have been involved in a time consuming move.  We should probably talk about this on the phone.

"To the best of my recollection" (as the saying goes), I think my source was Titovets, but--in any event--what I distinctly recollect is that the actual flash cards are (today) at the National Archives and part of the JFK Records Collection. So you might wish to check that out  (and, if you confirm it, and if you order photocopies of any of those flashcards, please scan them and send me copies, either via email or by fax. I can provide a fax number. Just email me at dsl74@Cornell.edu. 

In general: people don't understand how talented Oswald was.  He spoke English (of course, his first language); but also Russian; some Spanish, and was studying German.  That's four languages.  He really did have the seeds of a polymath. Too bad he didn't live long enough for all of that to flower.

DSL, 10/16/2017; 2 a.m. PDT

[Guest]

On 9/29/2017 at 8:11 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

So you believe Oswald was a genius, like Karl Marx.

I did not suggest any comparison whatsoever between LHO and Marx.  I merely pointed out that Marx was able to master Russian at a level sufficient to correspond with Russian intellectuals in a matter of approximately six months.  Russian is difficult, but not infinitely difficult or beyond the capability of someone such as LHO to master at a reasonable level through perfectly ordinary means in the time available to him (far longer than six months).

So you believe that Oswald was a bungling idiot, unlike Karl Marx.

When you try to play lawyer, you only embarrass yourself.  If you want to play lawyer, don't do it with a lawyer.

I suggested nothing about LHO being a bungling idiot.  I simply reported that my wife, a native Russian speaker, tells me his writings bear every indication of someone with only a rudimentary understanding of Russian and would never be mistaken for those of a native Russian or even someone with a strong grasp of the language.  The point again being that there is no reason to believe that LHO's abilities in Russian were suspiciously extraordinary.

And you believe that Peter Gregory was wrong when he wrote that Oswald was  "capable of being a translator and perhaps an interpreter." And that George de Mohrenschildt was wrong when he wrote of Oswald:

"Incidentally I never saw him interested in anything else except Russian books and magazines. He said he didn’t want to forget the language — but it amazed me that he read such difficult writers like Gorki, Dostoevski, Gogol, Tolstoi and Turgenieff — in Russian. As everyone knows Russian is a complex language and he was supposed to have stayed in the Soviet Union only a little over two years. He must have had some previous training and that point had never been brought up by the Warren Commission — and it is still puzzling to me. In my opinion Lee was a very bright person but not a genius. He never mastered the English language yet he learned such a difficult language! I taught Russian at all levels in a large university and I never saw such a proficiency in the best senior students who constantly listened to Russian tapes and spoke to Russian friends. As a matter of fact American–born instructors never mastered [the] Russian spoken language as well as Lee did."

No, I believe it is entirely possible that LHO understood Russian at the level Gregory certified, which would not require any suspiciously extraordinary explanation. Gregory's "testing" of LHO was minimal, and he may well have wanted to assist him in finding work.

I believe de Mohrenschildt's description, particularly the parts you have highlighted in bold, is pure fantasy.  Bear in mind that this is from his unpublished "memoir."  When he actually testified under oath in 1964, he described LHO as "not sophisticated" and "a semieducated hillbilly" (which, in comparison to de Mohrenschildt, he was).

Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Well, he was not sophisticated, you see. He was a semieducated hillbilly. And you cannot take such a person seriously. All his opinions were crude, you see. But I thought at the time he was rather sincere.

Mr. JENNER. He was relatively uneducated. 
Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Oh, yes. 
Mr. JENNER. Quite, as a matter of fact--he never finished high school. 
Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; I did not even know that. 
Mr. JENNER. Did you have the feeling that his views on politics were shallow and surface? 
Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Very much so. 
Mr. JENNER. That he had not had the opportunity for a study under scholars who would criticize, so that he himself could form some views on the subject? 
Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Exactly. His mind was of a man with exceedingly poor background, who read rather advanced books, and did not understand even the words in them. He read complicated economical treatises and just picked up difficult words out of what he has read, and loved to display them. He loved to use the difficult words, because it was to impress one. 
Mr. JENNER. Did you think he understood it? 
Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. He did not understand the words--he just used them. So how can you take seriously a person like that? You just laugh at him. But there was always an element of pity I had, and my wife had, for him. We realized that he was sort of a forlorn individual, groping for something.

Do I believe LHO read Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Gorky, Gogol and Turgenev in Russian (or English, for that matter)?  Uh, no.   Do I believe he spoke Russian better than American university professors of Russian?  Uh, no.

I don't know if the folks here have seen the following blog post, of which Ernst Titovets is the co-author, but it provides what is to me a perfectly plausible description of LHO's Russian-language skills when he arrived in the USSR and the improvement in his skills during his time there:  http://johndelanewilliams.blogspot.com/2013/07/did-oswald-speak-russian-while-living.html. Titovets and his co-author also expose the multiple fallacies in Armstrong's assertion that LHO spoke only English while in the USSR.

If those Oswald writings are as bad as your wife says they are ("they are almost unintelligible and typical of an American who has no real understanding of the language") -- something I frankly doubt -- then I think it is likely that those writings were forged. Because I can't believe that so many people who testified of Oswald's proficiency in the language could all be wrong.

My guess is that Oswald made mistakes in grammar and spelling when writing in Russian, just as he did when writing in English, and that your wife is exaggerating.

Why should anyone care what you "frankly doubt," "can't believe" or "guess"?  I simply reported what my wife, a native Russian speaker, told me.

This actually is kind of interesting:  Near the bottom of the following page is a short, informal letter that LHO wrote to Marina in Minsk on October 18, 1961:  http://landofancestors.com/history/soviet/202-lee-harvey-oswald.html.  My wife says the Russian in this is really quite good, with minimal mistakes.  (It is, of course, a very basic little letter, but still the Russian is good - at the level Titovets suggests LHO was then operating.)  On the other hand, my wife says the note that LHO supposedly left for Marina on the night of the Walker shooting is terrible - she could barely understand it and did indeed laugh out loud.  It is possible that LHO's Russian skills had deteriorated, as he feared they would, and/or that he was tremendously stressed - but the difference might also support the theory that Ruth Paine, the novice student of Russian, wrote the note.  The content sounds to me very odd for something Ruth Paine would have concocted, and it's difficult to understand why she would have put her minimal Russian skills to such a stiff test, but certainly the Russian is far poorer than we know LHO had been capable of at one time.

If one has no vested interest in a pet theory, it seems to me that:  (1) Yes, it is somewhat of an enigma as to why people who associated with LHO described his Russian abilities in such different terms.  On the other hand, his abilities undoubtedly were very different when he was a relative novice in the Marines, when he arrived in the USSR, as he gradually became immersed in the Soviet culture, and when he returned to the U.S.  Descriptions like those of de Mohrenschildt's are outliers and must be regarded as fanciful, not seized upon as the linchpin of some far-fetched theory.  (2) At their very best, LHO's abilities in Russian seem to me completely explainable in terms of the time available to him, his intense interest and reasonable level of intelligence, and his immersion in the Soviet culture.  But that's no fun, is it?

 

 

[Jim Hargrove]

 

Oswald’s Proficiency in the Russian Language

[Sandy Larsen]

5 hours ago, Lance Payette said:

So you believe Oswald was a genius, like Karl Marx.

I did not suggest any comparison whatsoever between LHO and Marx.  I merely pointed out that Marx was able to master Russian at a level sufficient to correspond with Russian intellectuals in a matter of approximately six months.  Russian is difficult, but not infinitely difficult or beyond the capability of someone such as LHO to master at a reasonable level through perfectly ordinary means in the time available to him (far longer than six months).

 

Well then, what was your point in bringing up Karl Marx's extraordinary Russian learning ability, if not to compare it to Oswald's?

 

Quote

So you believe Oswald was a genius, like Karl Marx.

I did not suggest any comparison whatsoever between LHO and Marx.... 

So you believe that Oswald was a bungling idiot, unlike Karl Marx.

When you try to play lawyer, you only embarrass yourself.  If you want to play lawyer, don't do it with a lawyer.

I object, your honor! 

I mean... who said I was was trying to "play lawyer?" I was merely pointing out your apparent self-contradiction. There's no need to be a lawyer to do that.

 

Edited October 23, 2017 by Sandy Larsen