What is known about Oswald's time in England?

[Mervyn Hagger]

52 minutes ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

Mervyn - You write that "I have been assured that the 'London Airport' triangular stamp refers specifically to Heathrow Airport." What is the evidence for that? I'm not doubting you, by the way. I think it's likely that the stamp was unique to Heathrow and not shared by Gatwick. If we can definitively rule out Gatwick as Oswald's point of departure for Helsinki, we will finally have acquired one solid fact about his time in England.

There doesn't seem to be a single piece of evidence about what Oswald did between passing through immigration at Southampton on 9 October 1959 and arriving in Helsinki the following day. We don't know how he travelled to Heathrow, if that's where he went. We don't know where he spent the night: in Southampton or in London? Unless he took an early flight the next day, my guess would be Southampton, since he probably got ashore at around 8 or 9 in the evening and then had to spend some time dealing with customs and immigration, and because the train journey to London takes close to three hours these days and presumably wouldn't have been any quicker in 1959. We don't know which flight or flights he took to Helsinki, or where or when he bought his ticket, although it's a reasonable assumption that he bought the ticket at whichever airport he flew from. So if we can establish that Oswald definitely flew from Heathrow, that would at least give us something.

 

Hi Jeremy. I don't like citing Wikipedia because of the rubbish it hosts, but in this instance the few lines about Croydon say it all: "Following the end of the war, it was realised that post-war airliners and cargo aircraft would be larger and that air traffic would intensify. The urban spread of south London and the growth of surrounding villages had enclosed Croydon Airport and left it little room for expansion. Heathrow was therefore designated as London's airport." You will notice that the term was applied in context with the closure of Croydon (although there were other airports), but the mantle was passed on to Heathrow. When Heathrow began having growth problems due a shortage of runways, other airports such as Gatwick began to assume some of the load. But Heathrow has been regarded as London's Airport for a long time, and this would have been true in 1959, consequently Gatwick; Stanstead; Southend and other airports have all been taking up some the overload. The fight for another runway at Heathrow that causes this overspill has been going on for a long time, but the occupants of houses surrounding Heathrow are pretty well united against such an idea due to noise. There has even been talk of creating a Japanese-type of island in the old docklands area, but this has also failed to materialize.

Edited May 8, 2018 by Mervyn Hagger

[Mervyn Hagger]

Here is a photo taken on February 21, 1959 in Southampton, England. This is what LHO might have seen in the daylight, had he gone into the town: 

 

Edited May 8, 2018 by Mervyn Hagger

[Mervyn Hagger]

August 16, 1959, Southampton Docks. https://www.flickr.com/photos/allhails/3037428841

 

[Mervyn Hagger]

SS Liberte - the ship that took Oswald from France to England: https://www.cruiselinehistory.com/the-french-line-ss-liberte-1950s/

[Jason Ward]

12 hours ago, Mervyn Hagger said:

Regarding my question about the timeline from London to Helsinki (on this issue I have no questions relating to his arrival in Southampton), my raised eyebrows came from the Swedish newspaper clipping you referenced that seems to suggest that Oswald did not fly from London to Helsinki, but from London to Stockholm. It that is true, it would put him into potential contact with Texans who were in Stockholm at the beginning of a venture called 'Radio Nord'.

 

Hi Mervyn,

From the evidence I can find that there is little assurance for any assumption about Oswald's travels between his departure on 10OCT59 from London Heathrow Airport (then known simply as London Airport) and his appearance at the Soviet frontier with Finland on 15OCT59 aboard a Moscow-bound train.

The CIA tells us in a cable (above in this thread) that there are a couple different arrival conduits in Helsinki from Stockholm.   

QUERY: Why was the CIA looking at routes from Stockholm and not simply London, according to their cable above in this thread?

Additionally, according to Jay Epstein, travelers between Finland and Sweden receive no passport stamp because the countries are in the same customs union.   Do you agree with me that it is equally possible that Oswald either

A. transited Stockholm on the way to Helsinki, or

B. Visited the Soviet embassy in Stockholm while nominally having a hotel room in Helsinki?

 

1. What is the source of the Swedish newspaper article claiming Oswald was in Stockholm?   Why is the CIA investigating transit modes between Helsinki an Stockholm as indicated in the above CIA cable?   Is it plausible Oswald visited Stockholm while already staying in Helsinki or on the way to Helsinki?   This is speculation from Jay Epstein:

 

2. Jay Epstein says passport stamps would not reveal travel between Sweden and Finland:

 

3. Is this evidence Oswald intended to stay in the UK longer than overnight?   Would there even be a record of Oswald in the UK from British authorities if he was merely in transit?

 

 

 

SOURCES

1 Alias Oswald by W.R. Morris and R.B. Cutler, R.B..  Publisher: GKG Partners, 1985. p 74 {citing Epstein, below}

2 The Legend of Lee Harvey Oswald by Edward Jay Epstein.  Readers Digest Press 1978.   p. 288

3 HSCA Russ Holmes Work File, NARA 104-10408-10434

Edited May 8, 2018 by Jason Ward

[Jason Ward]

13 hours ago, Mervyn Hagger said:

my raised eyebrows came from the Swedish newspaper clipping you referenced that seems to suggest that Oswald did not fly from London to Helsinki, but from London to Stockholm

 

Hi Mervyn,

Part of the problem here is that the Finnair flight departing London on 10APR59 does not arrive into Helsinki early enough to justify Oswald's check-in time at the Hotel Torni, according to Richard Helms at the CIA.

Besides all my other problems/oddities I'm also something of an aviation history buff.  Naturally, I wasn't able to find the Finnair timetables from 1959, but I was able to find them from 1958 and 1960.   The route from London to Helsinki is in no case direct, if Finnair was indeed his travel provider; there's lots of route possibilities indicated on their historical route maps.

 

1. 1958 & 1960 Finnair route maps.  No nonstop flights from London to Helsinki.   

 

 

2. Richard Helms and the CIA thought the Finnair flight from London arrived too late in Helsinki to match Oswald's check-in time at the Hotel Torni.   

 

SOURCE:

1 Bjorn Larsson & David Zekria, Airline Timetable Images. http://timetableimages.com/

 

[Jason Ward]

On 5/7/2018 at 3:30 AM, Mervyn Hagger said:

Because this stamp later left US Government researchers puzzled. The timeline did not match and that led to speculation that perhaps it was not Heathrow but Gatwick, even though a Heathrow stamp had been used.

 

10 hours ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

The Report cites evidence for most of its claims about Oswald's finances, but not for the claim that the ticket to Helsinki cost $111.90.

 

I don't want to prematurely announce something of a breakthrough here, but do you guys agree with me that the BEA (British Euroopean Airlines) timetable I show below makes it perfectly possible for Oswald to fly from London to Helsinki and match the hotel check in time?   Did the CIA simply not realize the option of other airlines besides Finnair?  Does this go some way to potentially answering a 50+ year old mystery of Oswald's journey from London to Helsinki?  Granted, this timetable is from 1958 but the 1960 timetable shows the same route and times.   

 

1. Why has there been a 50+ year mystery over how Oswald could have travelled from London to Helsinki in time to check in to the Hotel Torni?    The CIA apparently only checked with Finnair but did not look into BEA:

 

SOURCE:

Bjorn Larsson & David Zekria, Airline Timetable Images

http://timetableimages.com/ttimages/complete/complete.htm#Europe

Edited May 8, 2018 by Jason Ward

[Mervyn Hagger]

10 hours ago, Jason Ward said:

 

 

I don't want to prematurely announce something of a breakthrough here, but do you guys agree with me that the BEA (British Euroopean Airlines) timetable I show below makes it perfectly possible for Oswald to fly from London to Helsinki and match the hotel check in time?   Did the CIA simply not realize the option of other airlines besides Finnair?  Does this go some way to potentially answering a 50+ year old mystery of Oswald's journey from London to Helsinki?  Granted, this timetable is from 1958 but the 1960 timetable shows the same route and times.   

 

1. Why has there been a 50+ year mystery over how Oswald could have travelled from London to Helsinki in time to check in to the Hotel Torni?    The CIA apparently only checked with Finnair but did not look into BEA:

 

SOURCE:

Bjorn Larsson & David Zekria, Airline Timetable Images

http://timetableimages.com/ttimages/complete/complete.htm#Europe

Hi Jason, I don't want to begin addressing you prior response regarding the return of LHO from the USSR, until his arrival in USSR has been nailed down. In this regard you have produced some clear and tangible evidence, but again, without trying to interpret by guessing what you must have concluded, please specify the itinerary times of LHO from his arrival at Southampton to his departure at Heathrow, and from there to Helsinki, indicating any stopovers along the way, regardless of whether LHO did not disembark on those stopovers - as you now see it - by using the BEA flight schedules you attached.

Because of the paucity of material we have officially been given to work with (which may or may not have been the paucity of the material that officialdom worked with), which officialdom (from whatever source) is allowing us to consider; documented information that can be independently discovered after the fact must fit within the timeline officially provided. That being the case, and given that we are discussing road, rail and air traffic as it existed in 1959, and not as it currently exists, everything has to be sourced with its own time-stamp of contemporary verification. Your airline timetable is an excellent example.

However, LHO was a complete stranger to England in 1959, and we have not been told that he was escorted by a resident native guide who was familiar with 1959 road, rail and air traffic in England. Consequently, from the moment he left Immigration at Southampton, his timeline clock was ticking. So it is important to show by what methods he could have got to Heathrow, and how long it would have taken him to do so. It is not just journey time to consider, but initial unfamiliarity of route and availability of transport (taxi, bus or train).

Of course the big elephant in the room is this: If LHO was going to Switzerland to attend college, why go in the opposite direction with limited funds to England? If, as he told Immigration, he intended to stay for a week (as a tourist?), then why did he do an immediate about-face and head for Scandinavia (instead of Switzerland).

On the face of it the movements of LHO from New Orleans to France are the movements of a person with an established itinerary.

It is after he arrives in France that his itinerary immediately changes. Why?

He boards an ocean liner to cross the English Channel. Why?

His movements after arrival in France suggest that he has been met upon arrival by someone who has handed him the next leg of his itinerary to take him to England.

Upon arrival in England, LHO tells Immigration a plausible story about staying for a week before going to college in Switzerland. That is complicated enough, because LHO now has to stay somewhere in England, or Wales, or Scotland (he is not necessarily limited to London which itself was over three hours away from Southampton by car - more by bus), and he has to do so within his limited means.

But then he makes a beeline for Heathrow and catches a flight to Helsinki using a somewhat obscure route. (Obscure enough for CIA to miss it!) Now how does this young man figure all of that out without help from somewhere? Yes, he could have met by chance a very kind person who helped him overcome the barriers to ignorance of schedules, but that is an illogical conclusion based upon the sequence of events to his arrival in Southampton.

All of this points to either one person meeting him in France and giving him a very complicated itinerary, or one person in France telling him to board a liner for England, and another person in England meeting him at Southampton and giving him his flight information and driving him to the airport.

Either way, it all smells of an itinerary disguised for what it really is - a journey to the USSR for a limited time period (during which he has to become resident, etc., etc.), and of course it means that someone or a group of people are 'grooming' LHO as a 'sleeper' for an as yet undetermined plan of action that has nothing to do with the election of John F. Kennedy as President, because that is uncertain event nowhere on the immediate horizon, should it occur at all.

If LHO was being 'groomed' as a 'sleeper', by whom was he being groomed for as a standby asset should one become needed at some future time?

Once the "LHO-lone-assassin-theory" clock is stopped at the beginning of the first tick, suddenly what is so obvious to the "lone-nutters" becomes so improbable as to become a silly hypothesis, and that is without even touching the rubbished Warren Report.

I learned from Steve Martin a long time ago when he proclaimed "in his white-suited ‘70s splendor, smug self-satisfaction on his face, ‘You Can Be a Millionaire... and Never Pay Taxes!’ He then repeated his assertion in his best infomercial voice, and then added: "You say, ‘Steve, how can I be a millionaire and never pay taxes?’” “OK first,” he explains, “get a million dollars.” Then, when the tax man comes to your door, you look him in the eye and say two simple words: “I... forgot.”

Most of us would be happy to pay taxes on that million dollars, if we could be given the million dollars in the first place!

Steve's lesson taught by him and learned by me, is never move to Question Number Two, when the answer to Question Number One has been obfuscated!

I get the sense Jason, that when you more or less complain about the JFK waffle during the past 50 years, that you are hearing obfuscation and not sourced facts.

Mervyn

Edited May 9, 2018 by Mervyn Hagger
added a link

[Jason Ward]

10 hours ago, Mervyn Hagger said:

please specify the itinerary times of LHO from his arrival at Southampton to his departure at Heathrow, and from there to Helsinki, indicating any stopovers along the way, regardless of whether LHO did not disembark on those stopovers - as you now see it - by using the BEA flight schedules you attached.

I wish I could.    

The 50+ years of certainty that that the "mysterious" way Oswald gets from London to Helsinki is evidence of CIA-sponsored secret travel is going to be hard to overcome.  We have seen in this thread that London to Helsinki on 10OCT59 is not mysterious at all considering the BEA flight options apparently unrecognized by investigators.   

Between Southampton on 9OCT59 and Heathrow the next day, I'm not aware of any evidence we can use to re-construct Oswald's activities in the UK.   

We know Oswald checked in to Helsinki's Hotel Torni around midnight on 10OCT59, after what must have been a long day of travel.    It's just impossible to know if he took the BEA flight shown above in this thread.  I also think it's possible that he took a flight from London to Stockholm, then took a ferry on to Helsinki, as the CIA report above implies as a possibility.

We just don't know.

10 hours ago, Mervyn Hagger said:

If LHO was going to Switzerland to attend college, why go in the opposite direction with limited funds to England?

EXACTLY

Here's several scenarios that simply don't make sense IMO:

1. Oswald arrives in Le Havre, ostensibly for Switzerland's Albert Schweitzer college.   Why not just take a train or bus from Le Havre to Switzerland instead of crossing the channel?
2. Oswald arrives in Le Havre, secretly destined for Helsinki.   Why jot just take a flight from Amsterdam or Paris or a train instead of crossing the channel?
3. Oswald was always destined for Helsinki.   Why not book his transatlantic passage directly to a more convenient port, as his travel agent also wondered about?
4. Oswald was always planning to stop in the UK.  Why not book his transatlantic passage directly to the UK instead of crossing the channel in this peculiar way?
5. Oswald was working for the CIA or other instrument of US intelligence.   Why not just fly him straight to Helsinki and avoid all this European nonsense?  Why waste 2 weeks of seasickness getting from DFW to Helsinki travelling in the style of a poor directionless student?
6. Oswald intended to go to Helsinki either at all times or after arriving in Le Havre.  Why lie to British authorities about staying a week in the UK when a transit passage to Helsinki is his real plan, keeping in mind a UK transit visitor apparently causes much less notice and official record?

I think all these scenarios and questions they raise tend to suggest Oswald wasn't going to Helsinki until after he arrived at Southampton.   What do you think?

10 hours ago, Mervyn Hagger said:

It is after he arrives in France that his itinerary immediately changes. Why?

He boards an ocean liner to cross the English Channel. Why?

Maybe we can keep open the possibility that while floating across the Atlantic visiting Big Ben, Parliament, Stonehenge and so forth strike his fancy. 

He gets off the SS Marion Lykes in Le Havre and asks around about how to get to England.   The Marion Lykes crew might know of this option to Southampton, I guess, and be able to advise Young Oswald if he asked them.   This channel crossing is in any case odd, and is hard to imagine being part of ANY long-established plan IMO.

10 hours ago, Mervyn Hagger said:

His movements after arrival in France suggest that he has been met upon arrival by someone who has handed him the next leg of his itinerary to take him to England.

Possibly.  I hold open the possibility that Oswald is independent and illogical all by himself, without outside influence.

10 hours ago, Mervyn Hagger said:

Now how does this young man figure all of that out without help from somewhere?

He has to have help - but the channel crossing is probably known to shipping crews and harbor urchins hanging around Le Havre.

10 hours ago, Mervyn Hagger said:

Either way, it all smells of an itinerary disguised for what it really is - a journey to the USSR for a limited time period (during which he has to become resident, etc., etc.), and of course it means that someone or a group of people are 'grooming' LHO as a 'sleeper' for an as yet undetermined plan of action that has nothing to do with the election of John F. Kennedy as President,

 

I stop short of smelling this.

We all have a habit of attaching later events to earlier events and then assuming that the earlier event was connected or part of the later event.  You claim you were a teenager once, is this true?   When you wandered Europe for a month without [I presume] mafia, corporate, or CIA instructions, did you ever make route choices that make no sense if you were in hindsight trying to get from point A to point B?   

Oswald is 19, not well educated, was court-marshaled in the Marines for striking an officer, and was so efficient with firearms that he managed to accidentally shoot himself. He's always broke.  For this and many other reasons, I hold open the possibility that Oswald is just your average ne'er do well given to spontaneous illogical decisions.  Similarly, I also hold open he idea that he was easily influenced.    I hold open the possibility that Oswald was on some kind of mission for someone, but I discount the possibility that he is anyone's idea of a good sleeper agent to send into the Soviet Union.   Just my opinion.

10 hours ago, Mervyn Hagger said:

If LHO was being 'groomed' as a 'sleeper', by whom was he being groomed for as a standby asset should one become needed at some future time?

Whoever chooses and employs Oswald in any capacity, is desperate in my opinion.  This is the last guy chosen for any team.

10 hours ago, Mervyn Hagger said:

I get the sense Jason, that when you more or less complain about the JFK waffle during the past 50 years, that you are hearing obfuscation and not sourced facts.

Around here speculation tends to become fact.   

Very few look at raw evidence.   Looking at the historiography of the JFK assassination, the whole London-Helsinki jaunt is badly under-researched and continues to this day to rely too much on he original 1964 CIA opinion that the Finnair flight is the only option, unworkable though it is.

 

1. In 1975 the CIA is still unable to find the BEA timetable above in this thread and is at a loss to explain Oswald's London-Helsinki segment, fueling conspiracy theorists.

2. The 1979 HSCA report likewise leaves us to believe that London to Helsinki cannot be explained:

 

 

SOURCES

1 CIA "miscellenous JFK documents" NARA 104-10310-10067

2 House Select Committee on Assassinations Final Report, Section 5, p 211.

Edited May 9, 2018 by Jason Ward

[Mervyn Hagger]

56 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

We all have a habit of attaching later events to earlier events and then assuming that the earlier event was connected or part of the later event.  You claim you were a teenager once, is this true?   When you wandered Europe for a month without [I presume] mafia, corporate, or CIA instructions, did you ever make route choices that make no sense if you were in hindsight trying to get from point A to point B?   

I agree with what your statement (above), Jason, but with a caveat.

When Bill Colby walked into a office one day in the Eighties and shook my hand, I knew who he was, but he was not there to see me, but the person whose suite I shared. The other person is an attorney and his father had trekked in the Sixties and Seventies where many of the known 'players' connected to the JFK assassination had also trekked. I am not sure how much their paths crossed each other, but they did connect.

The connections included Manuel Artime Buesa's ship mortgage on the mv Olga Patricia which became a part of Operation Mongoose under the influence of RFK. Then there was the financial control of that ship under the control of the man who was the personal manager and pilot of US Senator John Tower. It seems to me that Tower should have recused himself from the Church-Tower Hearings.

This same individual (the father) was tied to Haiti, and his interests crossed those of people like Murchison. He also had an earlier ship, a former US minesweeper that hosted a clone of McLendon's KLIF in Dallas, only this one was aimed at London. A dj on board was also present when LHO was paraded before the press by the Dallas Police Department. Financial control was under the management of the man who had a lot to do with offshore banking for the Mafia in the Bahamas.

Then there is Edwin Walker and Eugene Bernald and Herbert W. Armstrong whose sponsorship made the British offshore radio stations of the Sixties possible, and Bernald made Armstrong's program possible on those stations.

As for my bike ride, well I could tell you more about that but right now I am not going to.

I did not become interested in the JFK story until a friend of mine in Norway kept nagging me regarding an aspect of my own experience that interconnected with the story of offshore broadcasting. So in that respect I have looked back in time and started to see that various events that I have observed, were not accidental, and neither is a true account of those events known to this day. Consequently I am now working on a book, but I have tediously plodded through aspects of this story in academic format (http://foundthreads.com), many of those are now in need of updating.

So although this unlikely character called LHO has entangled himself in a series of events culminating in the killing of JFK and a Dallas cop, it would take a malleable person to become a dupe, a "patsy", just like LHO who could be used in such a manner.

The last thing you want is a smart person who is likely to ask a lot of questions.

I am not that smart: it took a few years of nagging by my friend in Norway to take a serious look at what he was asking about. On the other hand he had no idea that his nagging about the ship mv Olga Patricia would lead to my taking an interest in the arrival of LHO in England during 1959!

What do you make of this? https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/104-10181-10086.pdf 

Mervyn

Edited May 9, 2018 by Mervyn Hagger

[David Josephs]

1 hour ago, Mervyn Hagger said:

What do you make of this? https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/104-10181-10086.pdf 

Mervyn

Now that I understand what you're both doing... very interesting indeed...   I hope not to interrupt you too much as I try and fill in the blanks... or point in the right direction...

You've convinced me that those leading Oswald did not tell him where he was going... or did and told him to stay quiet....  So who could be the conduit for this info?  Starting with those on the ship....

There were only 4 people on that ship...  Oswald, Mrs. Church,     Billy Lord,    LT. Colonel George B. Church 

Billy Lord is going to France to study the french language....

Whitmeyer, Frances Raby was born February 21, 1922 and passed away April 4, 2009. Frances was born in Athens, Alabama to S.W. and Donna Raby. She graduated from Alabama Women's College in Athens. She moved to New Orleans and worked for the Lykes Steamship Co. and also for the City of New Orleans helping to translate French law into English. She later married George Whitmeyer and they moved to Germany where he was stationed after the war.

Church and wife on a steamship with Oswald... the men associated with Jack Crichton and the Russian Translators for Marina, and also associated via their unit in Army reserve intel is LUMPKIN and GANNOWAY of the Dallas police/sheriff....    it COULD be a strange coincidence... if you believe in those things in this case....

Then I thought - What about Billy Lord?

Where you aware Billy wrote Carter a letter in 77?   http://tekgnosis.typepad.com/tekgnosis/2013/12/bill-lords-letter-to-president-jimmy-carter-re-jfk-assassination-and-lee-harvey-oswald-lho-plus-geor.html 

February 2, 1977

My dear Mr. President:

I have refrained from troubling you with the contents of this letter as long as I possibly could. But I have finally decided that a personal letter to you is, in the end, in your interest and in the country’s interest.

I am simply transcribing notes which I set down about two weeks ago--and which concern, and must concern, any leader of this country.

I was Lee Oswald’s cabin mate on the SS MARION LYKES, which sailed from New Orleans to France in September-October, 1959. I have recently been the subject of surveillance, of harassment, of pressure tactics, and possibly of terror tactics.

First, in September, when I was teaching in Japan, someone broke into my house, rifled my papers, but stole nothing. I returned to the United States shortly thereafter. Back in Texas, I was suddenly and improbably the subject of a blitz of contacts by telephone from persons wanting to know urgently and insistently what I knew or remembered about Oswald. No one had asked me anything about Oswald since the time of the Warren Commission investigation twelve years ago. The blitz of calls came out of the blue. It was highly improbable, and, after the break-in, I was suspicious. I stalled these people, who represented two major national publications. During this period of non-cooperation, I received another surprise, another “first” for me. Two Iranian gentlemen appeared at my front door.

My mother’s house was up for sale and they were prospective buyers. A small ad had been placed in the paper. The Iranians strode through the house in a very cursory, almost arrogant manner, paced off the front yard, and drove away. The sale of the house had been discussed on the telephone among family; a small ad had been placed. Only one other couple showed up to look at the house. Neither I, nor my mother, who is 63, had ever received a visit from Iranian gentlemen before.

One of the parties which has blitzed me with telephone calls trying to persuade me to tell them what I know about Oswald, is engaged in a very costly project which allows them to locate, interview, monitor, and influence every single available person who ever knew Lee Oswald--and this, just in advance of the new governmental   investigation by the House Select Committee on Assassinations. I finally consented, not to grant an interview, <page 1>

but to allow the publication’s representative to explain their project to me in person. After a lunch with this researcher, I was told that if I had refused even to meet with him, pressurewas in the offing through two Midland men: Mr. Jim Allison, publisher of the ultra-conservative Reporter-Telegram, my employer (out of necessity, and for the moment!), and Mr. George Bush, Jr. The researcher said he had asked an acquaintance, a Mr. Beamis (?), chairman of the Republican Party in Virginia and owner of “a string of hotels” in that state, for help in persuading me to tell what I know about Oswald. After this revelation, and when I still refused to be interviewed, the publication’s leg-man made an effort to purchase my knowledge about Oswald. I refused, and he left.

Shortly thereafter, my mother discovered that her telephone had been tampered with. The casing around the dialing apparatus had been pulled out about one-half inch. It was so obvious as to be grotesque. But we cannot doubt that someone entered the house at a time when I was at work and my mother was away; she returned to the house, however, at an unaccustomed time.

I have been in anguish for weeks, Mr. President, trying my best to laugh at my apprehensions and to see these events as fortuitous ones. Experience, common sense, and logic persuade me otherwise. So I have been compelled to react to all this in the form of a statement--and it may shed some light on the reasons for the intrusions into my life: 

Speaking as the man who spent more than two weeks in the same ship’s cabin with Lee Oswald at the time of his 1959 “defection”, and speaking as a man who has been the subject of the above-described tactics of cowards, I offer the following considerations to the American people and to people everywhere:

 

1. It is the CIA and FBI relations with Lee Oswald which have been    covered up since November 22, 1963. 

2. It is the CIA and the FBI which have concealed and destroyed evidence of their relations with Oswald prior to November 22,1963.

3. It is the CIA which has, from the beginning, fabricated or distorted certain Cuba-Oswald relations, and certain Cuba-JFK relations, as a smokescreen and decoy to conceal the CIA-Oswald relationship.

4. I can testify, and others can testify, that the CIA did not conduct a real investigation of the so-called defector Oswald in 1959. The CIA has long been concerned about witnesses who can testify to this oversight on their part.

<page 2>

5. They did not conduct a real investigation because Mr. Oswald was a bogus defector.

6. The CIA is concerned lest the knowledge that Oswald was a fake defector in 1959, linking him to CIA, also link him with CIA on November 22, 1963. But there is an impressive body of evidence that CIA used--and abused--Oswald as late as November, 1963.

7. It is the CIA-Oswald relation and the FBI-Oswald relation which have necessitated the thirteen-year cover-up.

8. A necessary conclusion is that the CIA and FBI elements in 1963 are suspect in the assassination of John Fitzgerald Kennedy. 

9. The assassination of John Kennedy has every appearance of having been our first American coup d’état.

Mr. President, as a man, a father, and a concerned citizen, I believe that you would act energetically also, if you were in my shoes. I believe that you should be aware of the fact that one of your fellow-citizens does not feel that he, his wife and three children, and his mother, are safe in Midland, Texas. 

I conclude, Mr. President, by assuring you that I have the most enormous respect for you and the most hope-inspiring indications of your good will, as of your rare ability to lead the nation. Without flattery, you are quite simply the political light of this period in history. God be with you. 

I apologize for the crude and, doubtless, offensive tone of this letter.

                                                                                       Sincerely, 

                                                                                <signed Bill Lord>

                                                                                       Bill Lord

[David Josephs]

Mrs. CHURCH claims that when she asks Oswald for his address to send a Xmas card he spells his name OSWALT

with a "T"...  if that matters as docs are tracked down...

[Jason Ward]

8 hours ago, David Josephs said:

Where you aware Billy wrote Carter a letter in 77?

Hi David, thanks for joining us.

It seems the letter Billy Lord wrote to Jimmy Carter that you showed us caused something of a stir in officialdom - here is the FBI report of that letter and subsequent interview with Lord.

 

 

 

 

[Jason Ward]

10 hours ago, Mervyn Hagger said:

I agree with what your statement (above), Jason, but with a caveat.

Thanks, Mervyn. 

I see too many people trying to explain every detail and every known event in Oswald's life.  

In my view it's better to just leave open questions as open questions, and note them as such.   For instance, we just don't know what Oswald did between his 9OCT59 arrival at Southampton and his 10OT59 departure from Heathrow, and AFAIK there isn't even the slightest clue to help us.   He tells HM Customs that he's staying in Britain for a week before heading to school in Switzerland - but the next day he's flying to Helsinki.. ..

We can reasonably speculate he spent the night somewhere and had a meal or two.  I think it's reasonable to suggest he obtained help in moving around the UK - but it's quite possible the help was nothing sinister, perhaps just the kindly help of train stationmasters, taxi drivers, or strangers.  For all we know, maybe it's a phone call that night that leads him to Helsinki the next day.  There need not be sneaky characters around Oswald - phones work just as well.  Or, as always, he could just be something of an errant wanderer in much of what he does.

However, I think trying to understand when and how (logistically) the Helsinki decision is made might give us some profitable clues, although again this will mostly be speculation.   I hypothesize that Helsinki is not a destination for Oswald until the night of 9OCT59 or the morning of 10OCT59.   Stockholm may even have been the original destination.    In any case, don't his odd travels at Le Havre suggest other than Helsinki/Stockholm was on his mind upon arriving in Europe?

 

Jason

Edited May 10, 2018 by Jason Ward

[Mervyn Hagger]

6 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

Thanks, Mervyn. 

I see too many people trying to explain every detail and every known event in Oswald's life.  

In my view it's better to just leave open questions as open questions, and note them as such.   For instance, we just don't know what Oswald did between his 9OCT59 arrival at Southampton and his 10OT59 departure from Heathrow, and AFAIK there isn't even the slightest clue to help us.   He tells HM Customs that he's staying in Britain for a week before heading to school in Switzerland - but the next day he's flying to Helsinki.. ..

We can reasonably speculate he spent the night somewhere and had a meal or two.  I think it's reasonable to suggest he obtained help in moving around the UK - but it's quite possible the help was nothing sinister, perhaps just the kindly help of train stationmasters, taxi drivers, or strangers.  For all we know, maybe it's a phone call that night that leads him to Helsinki the next day.  There need not be sneaky characters around Oswald - phones work just as well.  Or, as always, he could just be something of an errant wanderer in much of what he does.

However, I think trying to understand when and how (logistically) the Helsinki decision is made might give us some profitable clues, although again this will mostly be speculation.   I hypothesize that Helsinki is not a destination for Oswald until the night of 9OCT59 or the morning of 10OCT59.   Stockholm may even have been the original destination.    In any case, don't his odd travels at Le Havre suggest other than Helsinki/Stockholm was on his mind upon arriving in Europe?

 

Jason

Thanks Jason.

Regarding Switzerland, I see that someone else on another thread has posted a list of students expected at the college in Switzerland. The list includes LHO. An essay was also posted with information relating to LHO's voyage from New Orleans. I am new to this concentrated study of LHO in 1959, but I noticed that another person posted information in summary on another thread that is not as complete as the information you have posted here. All of this data should be in one place.

I see a big problem with different threads, but of course it is difficult to keep any thread focussed. However, I don't believe in the theory of a parallel universe/s; yet this is exactly what is happening by divorcing LHO from his surroundings in time and space. While Mary Ferrell has indeed created a 1959 timeline, it includes the kitchen sink by being date rather than person orientated. By this I mean that it is not orientated to helping us understand what LHO was doing and thereby answering questions that remain unanswered by hard evidence of fact.

Similarly you referenced my bike trip across Europe as an example of how inferences could be read into my movements by extreme conspiracy types, however, there are facts in play in this LHO study that I have already come across, and they began by following the movement of one ship, the mv Olga Patricia. That investigation is what has brought me to this thread. The facts uncovered there are indeed facts, and not speculation.

But then I ran across the writings of Edwin Walker in the Arizona Republic, a man who I previously had no interest in whatsoever. However, when Walker started linking his troubles to Eugene Bernald I was puzzled, because I knew of Bernald as a radio man, not a print man. Yet Walker tied Bernald to the publication 'Overseas Weekly'. I spent some time looking at that connection and concluded that Walker was correct, Bernald did have some form of influence and control over that publication, just as I discovered that Bernald represented US broadcasting overseas. Walker connected Bernald to CIA and specifically to the Bay of Pigs station 'Radio Swan'.

It is this strange, very, very strange story of offshore radio broadcasting that begins with Harry Truman and then seems to appear in copycat form off Denmark which is then replicated off Sweden, and all manipulated by the same folks in Dallas, Texas, that keeps cropping up in the LHO investigation, that should be considered as one story. There are a lot of very hard facts in play.

Now when you consider the fact that McLendon's primary manager wrote a book tying both those offshore stations and the assassination together, then it seems to me that when LHO might have been in Stockholm just as this radio story was getting underway, then I don't think the travels of LHO can be kept segregated and uncontaminated from the idea that his travel in Europe may be in some way connected with the travels of fellow Texans during the same space of time and related locations.

I understand your concerns because I have been engaged in the myth destruction business for some time while working on radio threads.

However, these threads do seem to be woven together, and it is that weave that has brought me here.