Mark Zaid, JFK and Trump

[Bob Ness]

2 hours ago, Jeff Carter said:

Lost in the hysterical fears that the Republic and the rule of law are forever damaged in light of this Motion, is that the charges against Flynn were fully part of the "nickel and dime process crimes" which were the hallmark of Mueller's indictment record. Not remembering details of phone calls discussing a UN Security Council Israel vote has nothing whatsoever to do with Russian election interference.

Process crimes are definitely relevant, you don't know what you're talking about. This is a Fox talking point that can fool the fans but not the players.

2 hours ago, Jeff Carter said:

The leak to the Washington Post which brought the Kisylak/Flynn phone call to public attention in mid-January 2017 was itself an illegal act far more serious than anything pinned on Flynn. That leak generated the questions to Pence which began the process ending with Flynn's dismissal. The leak was likely initiated by Comey or McCabe. Instead of interviewing Flynn after declaring it a priority, senior FBI officials initiated an illegal leak which created a disruptive furore around the incoming administration.

This is an entirely separate issue and has no bearing on Flynn's pleas or Janitor Barr's ridiculous withdrawal.

 

2 hours ago, Jeff Carter said:

 If Flynn was properly represented at the interview in the first place, as was required, he would not have faced any exposure to legal jeopardy.

This is complete and utter BS as the judge would have thrown it out and had the chance to on several occasions, if this was true. It isn't required. You can blame Flynn for that.

 

2 hours ago, Jeff Carter said:

There was nothing illegal or inappropriate about the Flynn/Kisylak phone calls - this fact too is being heavily downplayed. 

This is also not true as Flynn (according to now disclosed 302 documents) actually brought up the idea of going easy on retaliation for the sanctions rather than the other way around. Even if all they hang their hats on is the Logan Act it's still on the books. They were willing to close the investigation until such time as it became apparent he was lying about a lot more than they thought. Guess what? Flynn agreed with me! So there you go. Take it from the source himself.

[Jeff Carter]

4 hours ago, Bob Ness said:

Please enlighten me on the laws regarding a subject or target of an investigation who agrees to be interviewed by federal investigators. You're making a giant leap here that there was "exculpatory information" because there isn't - you're making that up. "Correct protocol" is not a legal requirement. I guarantee you it is not the investigator's job to provide defense to the person they are interviewing. Flynn's decision to do the interview was his not anyone else's and he can hardly claim ignorance like my 90 year old Aunt Millie. The Judge has already ruled on that and Flynn has plead guilty.

The exculpatory information was the long buried revelation that the FBI’s Washington Field Office had concluded its extensive investigation of Flynn under the Crossfire Hurricane umbrella and found “no derogatory information” and were closing his file. The means by which the file was instead kept open, and the means and methods by which Flynn was afterwards targeted has now been determined as  something like “egregious government misconduct”. The FBI’s questionable motivations, in light of the apparent conflict with other agencies including particularly the DOJ, and flagrant and deliberate defiance of established protocol which exposed Flynn to legal jeopardy, as they had intended, has been exposed. The extent to which Flynn “volunteered” for his interview is not exactly relevant.

4 hours ago, Bob Ness said:

Is this the sort of thing you think they do with Gotti or Cartels operating in the US? Give em a call say "Hey! We're coming over to have a chit chat make sure your lawyer is there?" This is why it is hysterical to me you're pushing this. 

But Flynn is not a mob boss or drug kingpin. He was the National Security Advisor for the president of the United States. He had been entirely cleared by a months long FBI investigation just weeks earlier,  The FBI predicated the interview, and the ensuing indictment, on the Logan Act, and that predicate has now been repudiated. A presumed Logan Act violation was a criminal rather than a counter-intelligence matter and the FBI never opened a criminal investigation based on the Logan Act. In any case, the DOJ would never pursue a prosecution based on the Logan Act. The matters to which Flynn was accused of lying, or making material misrepresentations, were only relevant to presumed Logan Act violations. This is the reason for the exoneration.

[Bob Ness]

1 hour ago, Jeff Carter said:

The exculpatory information was the long buried revelation that the FBI’s Washington Field Office had concluded its extensive investigation of Flynn under the Crossfire Hurricane umbrella and found “no derogatory information” and were closing his file. The means by which the file was instead kept open, and the means and methods by which Flynn was afterwards targeted has now been determined as  something like “egregious government misconduct”. The FBI’s questionable motivations, in light of the apparent conflict with other agencies including particularly the DOJ, and flagrant and deliberate defiance of established protocol which exposed Flynn to legal jeopardy, as they had intended, has been exposed. The extent to which Flynn “volunteered” for his interview is not exactly relevant.

But Flynn is not a mob boss or drug kingpin. He was the National Security Advisor for the president of the United States. He had been entirely cleared by a months long FBI investigation just weeks earlier,  The FBI predicated the interview, and the ensuing indictment, on the Logan Act, and that predicate has now been repudiated. A presumed Logan Act violation was a criminal rather than a counter-intelligence matter and the FBI never opened a criminal investigation based on the Logan Act. In any case, the DOJ would never pursue a prosecution based on the Logan Act. The matters to which Flynn was accused of lying, or making material misrepresentations, were only relevant to presumed Logan Act violations. This is the reason for the exoneration.

This response is so ridiculous you've made the DOJ withdrawal an "exoneration". Please. He did it. He is not exonerated. When I have more time and a better computer to respond with I'll point out why.

[Bob Ness]

9 hours ago, Jeff Carter said:

The exculpatory information was the long buried revelation that the FBI’s Washington Field Office had concluded its extensive investigation of Flynn under the Crossfire Hurricane umbrella and found “no derogatory information” and were closing his file.

In this DRAFT document, it clearly states without any ambiguity, that they are not closing it out in regards to further information that could come forth. This could be because he was lying to them! Whadya think? That's why "process crimes" are relevant. Either way this was a DRAFT document not the closing papers. The prosecutors didn't accept a draft plea.

[Bob Ness]

9 hours ago, Jeff Carter said:

The means by which the file was instead kept open, and the means and methods by which Flynn was afterwards targeted has now been determined as  something like “egregious government misconduct”.

Who has determined that? John Solomon? Qanon? You? Please give me your source on that. Oh no, it's that pillar of truth and justice, Michael Flynn and his attorney Sidney Powell. The judge didn't, that's for sure because he's looked at these issues before and ruled against them. The term you use is a legal term of art which is exceedingly difficult to apply to this situation because Flynn wasn't asked to do anything he  a) hadn't done before and b) admitted to doing on his own in an allocution to the court twice. Any documentary evidence revealed such as emails and texts only show deliberative processes that aren't in any way unusual. Again, you can fool the fans but not the players.

[Bob Ness]

10 hours ago, Jeff Carter said:

The FBI’s questionable motivations, in light of the apparent conflict with other agencies including particularly the DOJ, and flagrant and deliberate defiance of established protocol which exposed Flynn to legal jeopardy, as they had intended, has been exposed.

The FBI is not obligated by protocol and always wants to expose people to legal jeopardy if they so deserve it. McCabe spoke to Flynn prior to the interview and Flynn new exactly what the interview was about, declined having representation and lied anyway. And he pled to those facts several times.

[Bob Ness]

10 hours ago, Jeff Carter said:

The extent to which Flynn “volunteered” for his interview is not exactly relevant.

No, it's inconvenient to the BS your trying to push. He was informed of the interview. McCabe claims Flynn passed on having anyone there. He lied or was misleading in the interview and stated so in his sworn testimony several times. This is not irrelevant other than you don't want to accept it.

[Bob Ness]

 

10 hours ago, Jeff Carter said:

But Flynn is not a mob boss or drug kingpin. He was the National Security Advisor for the president of the United States. He had been entirely cleared by a months long FBI investigation just weeks earlier

Glad you picked up on that Jeff! HE WAS THE NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR TO THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNTIED STATES! Exactly the point! He wasn't some mobster boosting trucks it was FAR MORE IMPORTANT TO THE FBI that the clown could whisper Putin's sweet nothings into his ear whilst the Prez is playing with the "football"! Get it? He's supposed to be on our team! Not theirs! Glad you got that finally. That's exactly why when they found out he lied they had to continue!! Even if the justification was the Logan Act. It's legal and it's not unusual or illegal for investigators to use other lesser crimes to pursue other more serious issues. Not new! If that's all they came away with they'd probably pass on it but I'm sure he would have been fired for lying. He's the National Security Advisor to the prez!

[Jeff Carter]

1 hour ago, Bob Ness said:

In this DRAFT document, it clearly states without any ambiguity, that they are not closing it out in regards to further information that could come forth. This could be because he was lying to them! Whadya think? That's why "process crimes" are relevant. Either way this was a DRAFT document not the closing papers. The prosecutors didn't accept a draft plea.

A review of Flynn’s prosecution for the DOJ by an appointed counsel had been underway since January.  This is from the Motion To Dismiss:

The Government has concluded that the interview of Mr Flynn was untethered to, and unjustified by, the FBI’s counterintelligence investigation into Mr. Flynn—a no longer justifiably predicated investigation that the FBI had, in the Bureau’s own words, prepared to close because it had yielded an “absence of any derogatory information.” -end quote

The conclusions reflect that the FBI’s intervention to keep the counterintelligence file open was predicated on the Logan Act, which was an entirely separate legal matter - i.e. investigating Flynn over possible Logan Act violations would require opening a criminal investigation, not piggy-backing onto a counter-intelligence investigation. This distinction is reflected in contemporaneous communications where it is noted the FBI is “morphing” its rationales between a criminal and counter-intelligence investigation. The draft memo describing the closing of Flynn’s counter-intelligence file would have revealed this distinction, and thereby greatly assist Flynn’s Defence.

This also relates to the finding that the alleged misrepresentations themselves had no material relevance to the counter-intelligence investigation - that is, inaccurate or not, Flynn’s conversations about sanctions and UN Security Council votes had nothing whatsoever to do with the specific predicates of the Crossfire Hurricane investigation. (However, if Flynn had  in fact been pursued via the Logan Act, then they would have been relevant).  The Logan Act had no chance of success against Flynn, not only because it had never been used in 160 years and was believed to be unconstitutional, but also because he was, in his position as advisor to incoming president during a transition phase, not considered a “private citizen”. (Barr: “he was the designated national security adviser for President-Elect Trump, and was part of the transition, which is recognized by the government and funded by the government as an important function to bring in a new administration.”)

[Jeff Carter]

14 minutes ago, Bob Ness said:

Glad you picked up on that Jeff! HE WAS THE NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR TO THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNTIED STATES! Exactly the point! He wasn't some mobster boosting trucks it was FAR MORE IMPORTANT TO THE FBI that the clown could whisper Putin's sweet nothings into his ear whilst the Prez is playing with the "football"! Get it? 

But clearly there was no ongoing effort to facilitate Putin exerting influence, certainly not on behalf of Flynn ("no derogatory information"). The transcripts of the phone calls were available - known to Obama even by January 5 - and they did not reveal an influence campaign or any quid pro quo. Nothing illegal or inappropriate occurred because of or during the phone calls.

It's also clear that the FBI could not, in fact, do whatever they wanted, let alone to members of the incoming elected government. This is part of the reason why McCabe and Comey, for example, are now themselves subject to investigation. The leak of classified information to WaPo's Ignatius re: the Kisylak/Flynn phone calls certainly puts one or both of these gentlemen in their own legal jeopardy, if they were responsible. 

[Bob Ness]

39 minutes ago, Jeff Carter said:

A review of Flynn’s prosecution for the DOJ by an appointed counsel had been underway since January.  This is from the Motion To Dismiss:

The Government has concluded that the interview of Mr Flynn was untethered to, and unjustified by, the FBI’s counterintelligence investigation into Mr. Flynn—a no longer justifiably predicated investigation that the FBI had, in the Bureau’s own words, prepared to close because it had yielded an “absence of any derogatory information.” -end quote

The conclusions reflect that the FBI’s intervention to keep the counterintelligence file open was predicated on the Logan Act, which was an entirely separate legal matter - i.e. investigating Flynn over possible Logan Act violations would require opening a criminal investigation, not piggy-backing onto a counter-intelligence investigation. This distinction is reflected in contemporaneous communications where it is noted the FBI is “morphing” its rationales between a criminal and counter-intelligence investigation. The draft memo describing the closing of Flynn’s counter-intelligence file would have revealed this distinction, and thereby greatly assist Flynn’s Defence.

This also relates to the finding that the alleged misrepresentations themselves had no material relevance to the counter-intelligence investigation - that is, inaccurate or not, Flynn’s conversations about sanctions and UN Security Council votes had nothing whatsoever to do with the specific predicates of the Crossfire Hurricane investigation. (However, if Flynn had  in fact been pursued via the Logan Act, then they would have been relevant).  The Logan Act had no chance of success against Flynn, not only because it had never been used in 160 years and was believed to be unconstitutional, but also because he was, in his position as advisor to incoming president during a transition phase, not considered a “private citizen”. (Barr: “he was the designated national security adviser for President-Elect Trump, and was part of the transition, which is recognized by the government and funded by the government as an important function to bring in a new administration.”)

Yes. This is what the judge has already shut down. Here's their justification as part of a 951 investigation. Barr knows this and is trying to reframe it for idiots. IOW this is the janitor doing Trump's bidding and resulted in the resignation of Van Grack. He know's it's BS and the judge likely will also.

 

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by Bob Ness

[Jeff Carter]

1 hour ago, Bob Ness said:

Yes. This is what the judge has already shut down. Here's their justification as part of a 951 investigation. Barr knows this and is trying to reframe it for idiots. IOW this is the janitor doing Trump's bidding and resulted in the resignation of Van Grack. He know's it's BS and the judge likely will also.

What the Motion To Dismiss is saying is that the question of whether Flynn was “being directed and controlled” etc by the Russian Federation had already been settled by an FBI investigation team, and that the phone calls to Kisylak had legitimate purpose  and so had no relevance to the 951 investigation. The FBI were well aware of this, and so tried to create a predicate based on the Logan Act.

[Bob Ness]

6 hours ago, Jeff Carter said:

This also relates to the finding that the alleged misrepresentations themselves had no material relevance to the counter-intelligence investigation - that is, inaccurate or not, Flynn’s conversations about sanctions and UN Security Council votes had nothing whatsoever to do with the specific predicates of the Crossfire Hurricane investigation. (However, if Flynn had  in fact been pursued via the Logan Act, then they would have been relevant).  The Logan Act had no chance of success against Flynn, not only because it had never been used in 160 years and was believed to be unconstitutional, but also because he was, in his position as advisor to incoming president during a transition phase, not considered a “private citizen”. (Barr: “he was the designated national security adviser for President-Elect Trump, and was part of the transition, which is recognized by the government and funded by the government as an important function to bring in a new administration.”)

The FBI is not limited to what they can investigate as long as it's within their authority and germane to their investigation. Considering the transcript apparently includes conversations with Kislyak saying Flynn specifically brought up changes to the Obama administration enacted sanctions as a response to Russia's interference (whether you think that's true or not) and was unknown prior to the PDB it strengthens their case that it should have remained open. It is well within their authority under several different statutes. After the discussions became public he was immediately fired for lying to Pence et al and this was confirmed by Trump. The motion to dismiss is a sham and the only signature on it is Shea's, no other prosecutor would get near this tripe.

Edited May 10, 2020 by Bob Ness

[Bob Ness]

4 hours ago, Jeff Carter said:

What the Motion To Dismiss is saying is that the question of whether Flynn was “being directed and controlled” etc by the Russian Federation had already been settled by an FBI investigation team, and that the phone calls to Kisylak had legitimate purpose  and so had no relevance to the 951 investigation. The FBI were well aware of this, and so tried to create a predicate based on the Logan Act.

That may be what it is saying but is not true. The case had not been closed. Flynn was his own worst enemy. I suspect now DOJ is covering for Trump directing Flynn to pitch the idea and he's getting rewarded for not saying anything (IMO). Whether they created a predicate with the Logan act or not it doesn't matter. Did you read the part where Flynn agreed with all of the charges the Prosecutors made? Just asking. Maybe you missed that.

Edited May 10, 2020 by Bob Ness

[Bob Ness]

6 hours ago, Jeff Carter said:

But clearly there was no ongoing effort to facilitate Putin exerting influence, certainly not on behalf of Flynn ("no derogatory information"). The transcripts of the phone calls were available - known to Obama even by January 5 - and they did not reveal an influence campaign or any quid pro quo. Nothing illegal or inappropriate occurred because of or during the phone calls.

It's also clear that the FBI could not, in fact, do whatever they wanted, let alone to members of the incoming elected government. This is part of the reason why McCabe and Comey, for example, are now themselves subject to investigation. The leak of classified information to WaPo's Ignatius re: the Kisylak/Flynn phone calls certainly puts one or both of these gentlemen in their own legal jeopardy, if they were responsible. 

Neither you or I know the exact content of the calls. If Flynn lied about them then Russia would certainly be able to leverage Flynn for that reason alone. The transcripts alarmed several ppl so I don't think they were as benign as you assume. If it were you or I nobody would care. If it's a General acting as an NSA to the president with a TS/SCI that is a different kettle of fish. Sullivan reviewed this issue at least once and put it aside. No dice.