Le May and the CIA

[Ron Bulman]

In William Laws In the Eye of History on page 195 Paul O'Connor is pretty emphatic Le May was there.  "I remember Curtis Le May sitting there with a big cigar in his hand.  Law: How did you know it was him.  I knew Curtis LeMay by seeing him before and by the big cigar he smoked all the time. "

Just prior to this O'Connor is even more emphatic about Burkley taking over.  "He came in and was very agitated - giving orders to everybody, including higher ranking officers. … Law:  So he, in effect assumed command?  He was entirely in command over admirals, over generals.  

Regarding LeMay, what I thought I'd read in the past was that Humes told one of the two attendants at the table to go tell whoever's smoking that cigar to put it out.  When he turned and took a step or two he recognized LeMay and turned back around thinking he didn't have the rank to tell LeMay to put his cigar out.  Whether this might have been O'Connor to a different author or someone else close to the table, I don't remember, or where I think I read it.

[Ron Bulman]

On 11/15/2019 at 8:43 AM, Steve Thomas said:

Ron,

 

Does Hyman, or you, know of any specific contacts or friendships LeMay had with Harold Byrd, or work between LeMay and LTV?

 

Thanks,

 

Steve Thomas

 

 

Steve,

What Hyman says on page 433 (in the chapter titled Military Cooperation?) is:  

"Oswald's friend George de Mohrenschildt had CIA and military connections. DM's wife and daughter both say George got Oswald the job at Jaggers … de M was a member of the Dallas Petroleum Club which included George H. W. Bush, George Bauhe and D. H. Byrd - owner of The TSBD building.  Byrd was an owner of LTV, a major Air Force contractor, … Byrd was friends with General Doolittle and LeMay as well as LBJ.  In May 1963 LeMay awarded Byrd an Air force award for funding the Civil Air Patrol... 

"In April 1963 de M wrote a letter to LBJ , which contained the suggestion to meet with LBJ's security advisor Colonel (another one!) Howard Burris.  They did meet Burris, a Texas oil man, who was friends with General Charles Cabell and Richard Helms of the CIA."

The part about LeMay and Byrd is referenced in the end notes to Family of Secrets (Baker) pg. 410 and Devil's Chessboard (Talbot) pg. 540.  

There is nothing in FOS on pg. 410 about LeMay or Byrd or for a couple of pages each way.  Le May is not referenced in the end notes.  Byrd is a half dozen times but none mention LeMay.  I don't know what's going on here.  Wrong book?  Dr. Hyman seems legit, the book mentions many things I've seen documented elsewhere.

Chessboard's pg. 540 reveals this " The owner of the Texas School Book Depository was closely associated with a number of passionate Kennedy adversaries, including Curtis LeMay, the Air Force chief whose relentless request for a nuclear showdown with the Soviet Union caused the president to question the general's sanity.   LeMay bestowed a glowing Air Force commendation on Byrd in May 1963 for his role in founding the Civil Air Patrol."  I've not yet checked David's references yet but have come to trust them pretty well explicitly.  Wish he would post here.   

[Paul Jolliffe]

15 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Steve,

What Hyman says on page 433 (in the chapter titled Military Cooperation?) is:  

"Oswald's friend George de Mohrenschildt had CIA and military connections. DM's wife and daughter both say George got Oswald the job at Jaggers … de M was a member of the Dallas Petroleum Club which included George H. W. Bush, George Bauhe and D. H. Byrd - owner of The TSBD building.  Byrd was an owner of LTV, a major Air Force contractor, … Byrd was friends with General Doolittle and LeMay as well as LBJ.  In May 1963 LeMay awarded Byrd an Air force award for funding the Civil Air Patrol... 

"In April 1963 de M wrote a letter to LBJ , which contained the suggestion to meet with LBJ's security advisor Colonel (another one!) Howard Burris.  They did meet Burris, a Texas oil man, who was friends with General Charles Cabell and Richard Helms of the CIA."

The part about LeMay and Byrd is referenced in the end notes to Family of Secrets (Baker) pg. 410 and Devil's Chessboard (Talbot) pg. 540.  

There is nothing in FOS on pg. 410 about LeMay or Byrd or for a couple of pages each way.  Le May is not referenced in the end notes.  Byrd is a half dozen times but none mention LeMay.  I don't know what's going on here.  Wrong book?  Dr. Hyman seems legit, the book mentions many things I've seen documented elsewhere.

Chessboard's pg. 540 reveals this " The owner of the Texas School Book Depository was closely associated with a number of passionate Kennedy adversaries, including Curtis LeMay, the Air Force chief whose relentless request for a nuclear showdown with the Soviet Union caused the president to question the general's sanity.   LeMay bestowed a glowing Air Force commendation on Byrd in May 1963 for his role in founding the Civil Air Patrol."  I've not yet checked David's references yet but have come to trust them pretty well explicitly.  Wish he would post here.   

 Ron quoted David Talbot as writing: "LeMay bestowed a glowing Air Force commendation on Byrd in May 1963 for his role in founding the Civil Air Patrol."  I've not yet checked David's references yet but have come to trust them pretty well explicitly.  Wish he would post here. ""

 

Ron, Wikipedia says that D.H.Byrd himself supplied the source on pages 101 and 102 of his own autobiography "I'm An Endangered Species: Autobiography of a Free Enterpriser" (1978). Byrd apparently published the USAF's Scroll of Appreciation with the citation on those pages. Since I don't own Byrd's book, I can't say for certain, but I bet it is highly likely that Talbot's sentence is correct.

[Chuck Schwartz]

Jim, yes, I meant Paul O'Connor, who was asked by HUmes to find out who was smoking the cigar and tell him to put it out. Paul found the cigar smoker- it was Lemay and Paul told him to put it out. Lemay did not respond but he blew smoke in Paul's face.

Larry, yes , I meant Arleigh Burke, who I think is underrated as to having a strong role in the Big Event.   He and Lemay both thought JFK was appeasing the communists and both could not live with such appeasement. I believe they felt by killing JFK the US would take a stronger position against communism (such as escalating the Vietnam war).  John Newman has done a very good job on showing how the murder of JFK led to the escalation of the war in Vietnam. It was Lemay who said we should bomb North Vietnam back to the stone age. He was crazy then and he was crazy when he supported the murder of JFK.  Lemay did do a good job in defeating the enemies of the US during WW2, but I don't think he ever left that war - he was still fighting it until he died (the domino theory said communism had to be stopped in Vietnam- appeasing the communists was the same as appeasing the nazis) .  My father fought in WW2 in the Pacific theater  and he occupied Japan in 1946.  He never talked to me about it. It was too horrible. He told my Mom about some of the horrible details and she told me. When the subject of WW2 came up ,  my father  would say the Civil War general that said War is Hell- he got it right. Both my parents were /  are Jewish. But, they sent me to a Quaker elementary school and a Quaker high school- partly because of the Quakers stand on war in general. 

 

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, Chuck Schwartz said:

Jim, yes, I meant Paul O'Connor, who was asked by HUmes to find out who was smoking the cigar and tell him to put it out. Paul found the cigar smoker- it was Lemay and Paul told him to put it out. Lemay did not respond but he blew smoke in Paul's face.

Larry, yes , I meant Arleigh Burke, who I think is underrated as to having a strong role in the Big Event.   He and Lemay both thought JFK was appeasing the communists and both could not live with such appeasement. I believe they felt by killing JFK the US would take a stronger position against communism (such as escalating the Vietnam war).  John Newman has done a very good job on showing how the murder of JFK led to the escalation of the war in Vietnam. It was Lemay who said we should bomb North Vietnam back to the stone age. He was crazy then and he was crazy when he supported the murder of JFK.  Lemay did do a good job in defeating the enemies of the US during WW2, but I don't think he ever left that war - he was still fighting it until he died (the domino theory said communism had to be stopped in Vietnam- appeasing the communists was the same as appeasing the nazis) .  My father fought in WW2 in the Pacific theater  and he occupied Japan in 1946.  He never talked to me about it. It was too horrible. He told my Mom about some of the horrible details and she told me. When the subject of WW2 came up ,  my father  would say the Civil War general that said War is Hell- he got it right. Both my parents were /  are Jewish. But, they sent me to a Quaker elementary school and a Quaker high school- partly because of the Quakers stand on war in general. 

 

"LeMay … blew smoke in Paul's face".   Are you blowing smoke?

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=song+were+just+blowing+smoke&view=detail&mid=EB755ADB1CBE933996A3EB755ADB1CBE933996A3&FORM=VIRE

[Chuck Schwartz]

The extended recordings and transcripts (of jFK during the Cuban Missile crisis) provide more context about how military leaders were pressing the president to take military action against Cuba. After Gen. Curtis LeMay, the Air Force chief of staff, tried to force Kennedy's hand by equating the president's chosen course of a naval "quarantine" with the appeasement of Hitler before World War II, Kennedy walked Lemay thru his thinking, but to no avail.

The last thing JFK probably saw  before he was killed was the black umbrella fully extended. Recently, a person confessed to being that person with the black umbrella. He said it was not to give the sign that JFK's limo was coming, but to remind JFK that what he did with Cuba was appeasement and JFK knew who accused him of appeasement- it was Lemay.