Is anyone interested in Apollo missions...

[Michael Hogan]

Was there meant to be a quote with that post Scott?

Would you know if that article will be available online at all? Sounds like a very interesting read.

Here is another article by Wright in the same magazine on the death of al-Zarqawi and what it meant for Al Qaeda according to the author:

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/content/arti...9ta_talk_wright

The Looming Tower by Lawrence Wright has been reviewed fifteen times in little more than a week on Amazon.

Every single review is five stars. I'm certainly not saying Wright's book does not deserve five stars, but it is very rare to see such unanimity in reader reviews on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-...-4120640?ie=UTF

By comparison, Gerald McKnight's excellent book, A Breach of Trust has been reviewed eleven times in eleven months on Amazon. Not really much interest in the Kennedy Assassination in the 21st century.

Edited August 19, 2006 by Michael Hogan

[David G. Healy]

It's very interesting - I didn't realise just how much the 9/11 "truth" movement actually resorts to deception & misinformation if it suits their cause.

On the James Randii forum, there was discussion about 9/11 and one person brought up a quote from one of the firemen, saying how he heard bombs going off.

Turns out that particular fireman is a member of the board, and proceeded to vent his fury at the numerous "truth" groups that misquote or distort what he said. He said he heard things that sounded like explosions (not bombs), and does not believe for a second there were explosives used; the noises simply sounded like explosions.

That led to the amount of misquoting and ommission that is going on. See here:

http://911myths.com/html/quote_abuse.html

So far, the so-called truth movement seems to be guilty of everything it is accusing the US government of.

So until I see hard, solid evidence that those shots were taken before the guys started cutting beams, see original quotes from people who can be confirmed as experts saying that they were not cut with a torch... well, those claims just go into the ever-growing "unproven" pile.

Funny how the majority of Americans [and growing] are of the opinion that the official version is nothing but xxxx. Do you also believe that the Gulf of Tonkin 'incident' was real? The WC was the truth about Dallas or maybe that the Poles attacked Germany and some Communist set fire to the Reichstag?.....post away you Coincidence theorists and apologists for the Empire.....while the forces are evil are currently on your side the tide of history is not, I'm afraid..... so declare 'victory' and be smug....no one is buying the story you sell.

Majority of American? Time to pony up there Lemming and post the actual poll that gave these numbers. No one is buying what YOU have to sell these days WITHOUT some actual DATA to back up your claims.

ah.... hello, Craigster -- looks like the data is there, pony up time

Edited August 19, 2006 by David G. Healy

[Evan Burton]

It's very interesting - I didn't realise just how much the 9/11 "truth" movement actually resorts to deception & misinformation if it suits their cause.

On the James Randii forum, there was discussion about 9/11 and one person brought up a quote from one of the firemen, saying how he heard bombs going off.

Turns out that particular fireman is a member of the board, and proceeded to vent his fury at the numerous "truth" groups that misquote or distort what he said. He said he heard things that sounded like explosions (not bombs), and does not believe for a second there were explosives used; the noises simply sounded like explosions.

That led to the amount of misquoting and ommission that is going on. See here:

http://911myths.com/html/quote_abuse.html

So far, the so-called truth movement seems to be guilty of everything it is accusing the US government of.

So until I see hard, solid evidence that those shots were taken before the guys started cutting beams, see original quotes from people who can be confirmed as experts saying that they were not cut with a torch... well, those claims just go into the ever-growing "unproven" pile.

Funny how the majority of Americans [and growing] are of the opinion that the official version is nothing but xxxx. Do you also believe that the Gulf of Tonkin 'incident' was real? The WC was the truth about Dallas or maybe that the Poles attacked Germany and some Communist set fire to the Reichstag?.....post away you Coincidence theorists and apologists for the Empire.....while the forces are evil are currently on your side the tide of history is not, I'm afraid..... so declare 'victory' and be smug....no one is buying the story you sell.

Peter,

This is NOT a matter of belief; it is a matter of fact or fiction, truth or distortion. The facts are that aircraft were flown into the Pentagon and the WTC. The fact is that the collapse of the WTC is consistant with the damage sustained.

There is a great difference between 9/11 and the events you mention - the availability of, and ability to scrutinise, the data. This event has been examined and experts in their fields find no significant anomoloies with that data. The reasons why the attacks occured can be argued at length - but the realities of the events themselves are clear.

As for polls, I care not a wit what a farmer from Iowa or textile worker from New Jersey think. If a number of people (of whatever nationality) who have the necessary technical expertise determine that there are irregularities in the known evidence relating to their expertise, then I listen to them.

Facts are stubborn things.

[Craig Lamson]

It's very interesting - I didn't realise just how much the 9/11 "truth" movement actually resorts to deception & misinformation if it suits their cause.

On the James Randii forum, there was discussion about 9/11 and one person brought up a quote from one of the firemen, saying how he heard bombs going off.

Turns out that particular fireman is a member of the board, and proceeded to vent his fury at the numerous "truth" groups that misquote or distort what he said. He said he heard things that sounded like explosions (not bombs), and does not believe for a second there were explosives used; the noises simply sounded like explosions.

That led to the amount of misquoting and ommission that is going on. See here:

http://911myths.com/html/quote_abuse.html

So far, the so-called truth movement seems to be guilty of everything it is accusing the US government of.

So until I see hard, solid evidence that those shots were taken before the guys started cutting beams, see original quotes from people who can be confirmed as experts saying that they were not cut with a torch... well, those claims just go into the ever-growing "unproven" pile.

Funny how the majority of Americans [and growing] are of the opinion that the official version is nothing but xxxx. Do you also believe that the Gulf of Tonkin 'incident' was real? The WC was the truth about Dallas or maybe that the Poles attacked Germany and some Communist set fire to the Reichstag?.....post away you Coincidence theorists and apologists for the Empire.....while the forces are evil are currently on your side the tide of history is not, I'm afraid..... so declare 'victory' and be smug....no one is buying the story you sell.

Majority of American? Time to pony up there Lemming and post the actual poll that gave these numbers. No one is buying what YOU have to sell these days WITHOUT some actual DATA to back up your claims.

ah.... hello, Craigster -- looks like the data is there, pony up time

Ah ...hello David...looks like the data IS NOT THERE to support old LEMMINGS claim that "Funny how the majority of Americans [and growing] are of the opinion that the official version is nothing but xxxx."

He told a little white lie and now he has gotten caught with his hand in the cookie jar...quite typical of his normal postings it seems.

And I suggest you need to take a remedial reading course because your are currently a failure.

So lets see what LEMMING has posted. First poll was of NEW YORKERS...not Americans at large so it IN NO WAY supports his original claim. Second poll is consists of Americans at large AND NONE OF THE NUMBERS support his orignal claim... "Funny how the majority of Americans [and growing] are of the opinion that the official version is nothing but xxxx. "

LEMMING was simply ranting with NO facts to back up his rant...simple as that. And now YOU have shown us all you cant read. LOL!

When will you jokers ever learn...You think I made my original post without KNOWING exactly what the facts were and that LEMMING was lying...sheesh...

TIME FOR YOU AND LEMMING TO PONY UP ... you have both been caught.

[Michael Hogan]

A third of U.S. public believes 9/11 conspiracy theory

By THOMAS HARGROVE and GUIDO H. STEMPEL III

Scripps Howard News Service

02-AUG-06

Widespread resentment and alienation toward the national government appears to be fueling a growing acceptance of conspiracy theories about the 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon......

University of Florida law professor Mark Fenster, author of the book "Conspiracy Theories: Secrecy and Power in American Culture," said the poll's findings reflect public anger at the unpopular Iraq war, realization that Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction and growing doubts of the veracity of the Bush administration.

"What has amazed me is not that there are conspiracy theories, but that they didn't seem to be getting any purchase among the American public until the last year or so," he said. "Although the Iraq war was not directly related to the 9-11 attacks, people are now looking back at 9-11 with much more skepticism than they used to."

http://www.shns.com/shns/g_index2.cfm?acti...PIRACY-08-02-06

[Craig Lamson]

A third of U.S. public believes 9/11 conspiracy theory

By THOMAS HARGROVE and GUIDO H. STEMPEL III

Scripps Howard News Service

02-AUG-06

Widespread resentment and alienation toward the national government appears to be fueling a growing acceptance of conspiracy theories about the 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon......

University of Florida law professor Mark Fenster, author of the book "Conspiracy Theories: Secrecy and Power in American Culture," said the poll's findings reflect public anger at the unpopular Iraq war, realization that Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction and growing doubts of the veracity of the Bush administration.

"What has amazed me is not that there are conspiracy theories, but that they didn't seem to be getting any purchase among the American public until the last year or so," he said. "Although the Iraq war was not directly related to the 9-11 attacks, people are now looking back at 9-11 with much more skepticism than they used to."

http://www.shns.com/shns/g_index2.cfm?acti...PIRACY-08-02-06

Long way from a "majority of Americans"

Most interesting passage from the article and similar to the results of the Zogby poll show it's the ignorant, Democrats (same thing) and the uninformed young that believe this crap.

"The poll found that a majority of young adults give at least some credence to a 9/11 conspiracy compared to less than a fourth of people 65 or older. Members of racial and ethnic minorities, people with only a high school education and Democrats were especially likely to suspect federal involvement in 9/11."

Edited August 20, 2006 by Craig Lamson

[Michael Hogan]

Long way from a "majority of Americans"

Most interesting passage from the article and similar to the results of the Zogby poll show it's the ignorant, Democrats (same thing) and the uninformed young that believe this crap.

"The poll found that a majority of young adults give at least some credence to a 9/11 conspiracy compared to less than a fourth of people 65 or older. Members of racial and ethnic minorities, people with only a high school education and Democrats were especially likely to suspect federal involvement in 9/11."

Why did Lamson leave out "members of racial and ethnic minorities" in his interpretation of the "most interesting passage from the article?" Afraid to characterize them as ignorant and uninformed?

The Zogby poll (August 2004):

Half of New Yorkers Believe US Leaders Had Foreknowledge of Impending 9-11 Attacks and “Consciously Failed” To Act; 66% Call For New Probe of Unanswered Questions by Congress or New York’s Attorney General, New Zogby International Poll Reveals

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=855

Aside from omitting the fact that it was 49.3% of New Yorkers (not such a long way from a majority) and that the Zogby poll is two years old, Lamson must apparently feel that New Yorkers, as well as racial and ethnic minorities are among the "ignorant and uininformed."

The currents of racism and true ignorance may run deep, but they are never really that far from the surface.

[Craig Lamson]

Long way from a "majority of Americans"

Most interesting passage from the article and similar to the results of the Zogby poll show it's the ignorant, Democrats (same thing) and the uninformed young that believe this crap.

"The poll found that a majority of young adults give at least some credence to a 9/11 conspiracy compared to less than a fourth of people 65 or older. Members of racial and ethnic minorities, people with only a high school education and Democrats were especially likely to suspect federal involvement in 9/11."

Why did Lamson leave out "members of racial and ethnic minorities" in his interpretation of the "most interesting passage from the article?" Afraid to characterize them as ignorant and uninformed?

The Zogby poll (August 2004):

Half of New Yorkers Believe US Leaders Had Foreknowledge of Impending 9-11 Attacks and “Consciously Failed” To Act; 66% Call For New Probe of Unanswered Questions by Congress or New York’s Attorney General, New Zogby International Poll Reveals

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=855

Aside from omitting the fact that it was 49.3% of New Yorkers (not such a long way from a majority) and that the Zogby poll is two years old, Lamson must apparently feel that New Yorkers, as well as racial and ethnic minorities are among the "ignorant and uininformed."

The currents of racism and true ignorance may run deep, but they are never really that far from the surface.

Why did I leave out racial and minorites? Because its what I wanted to do. Afraid to call them ignorant? not at all...most of them are..and Dimocrats to boot.

You need to learn to read Hogan. We discussed the polls above and for your information there are TWO Zogby polls, one national and the old one you are quoting. Learn to research before you rant. Oh wait, I'm guessing you are a Democrat...never mind.

And yes I consider most of New York to be among the ignorant...after all just how intelligent can they be...they elected Hillary!

[Michael Hogan]

Why did I leave out racial and minorites? Because its what I wanted to do. Afraid to call them ignorant? not at all...most of them are..and Dimocrats to boot.

You need to learn to read Hogan. We discussed the polls above and for your information there are TWO Zogby polls, one national and the old one you are quoting. Learn to research before you rant. Oh wait, I'm guessing you are a Democrat...never mind.

And yes I consider most of New York to be among the ignorant...after all just how intelligent can they be...they elected Hillary!

It was Lamson that failed to provide a source or link for his Zogby claims. I've never been good at reading the mind of a racist.

Apparently, this is the Zogby poll Lamson belatedly refers to:

Zogby Poll Finds Over 70 Million Voting Age Americans Support New 9/11 Investigation

For Immediate Release

May 22, 2006

Media Contact:

Mike Berger, 314-308-4893, press@911truth.org

NEW ZOGBY POLL REVEALS OVER 70 MILLION VOTING AGE AMERICANS DISTRUST OFFICIAL 9/11 STORY AND SUPPORT NEW INVESTIGATION OF POSSIBLE US GOVERNMENT ROLE IN THE ATTACKS.*

- 911Truth.org urges 2006 reform candidates to recognize a powerful new constituency.

(Utica, NY) - Although the Bush administration continues to exploit September 11 to justify domestic spying, unprecedented spending and a permanent state of war, a new Zogby poll reveals that less than half of the American public trusts the official 9/11 story or believes the attacks were adequately investigated.

The poll is the first scientific survey of Americans' belief in a 9/11 cover up or the need to investigate possible US government complicity, and was commissioned to inform deliberations at the June 2-4 "9/11: Revealing the Truth, Reclaiming Our Future" conference in Chicago. Poll results indicate 42% believe there has indeed been a cover up (with 10% unsure) and 45% think "Congress or an International Tribunal should re-investigate the attacks, including whether any US government officials consciously allowed or helped facilitate their success" (with 8% unsure). The poll of American residents was conducted from Friday, May 12 through Tuesday, May 16, 2006. Overall results have a margin of sampling error of +/- 2.9. All inquiries about questions, responses and demographics should be directed to Zogby International.

I'm sure Lamson supports the organization that commissioned this poll.

http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20060522022041421

It's funny how Lamson labels others with his pet nicknames, is full of hate and vitriol towards anyone and everyone that doesn't agree with him, and holds minorities in low esteem is so quick to accuse others of "ranting" when they question his views.

By the way, Lamson wrote: "Why did I leave out racial and minorites?" Nice syntax. If one didn't know better, it almost sounds like it's Lamson who is "ranting."

Lamson giving others advice on learning to read and learning to research is equivalent to......Well, you get the idea.

Edited August 20, 2006 by Michael Hogan

[Craig Lamson]

Why did I leave out racial and minorites? Because its what I wanted to do. Afraid to call them ignorant? not at all...most of them are..and Dimocrats to boot.

You need to learn to read Hogan. We discussed the polls above and for your information there are TWO Zogby polls, one national and the old one you are quoting. Learn to research before you rant. Oh wait, I'm guessing you are a Democrat...never mind.

And yes I consider most of New York to be among the ignorant...after all just how intelligent can they be...they elected Hillary!

It was Lamson that failed to provide a source or link for his Zogby claims. I've never been good at reading the mind of a racist.

Apparently, this is the Zogby poll Lamson belatedly refers to:

Zogby Poll Finds Over 70 Million Voting Age Americans Support New 9/11 Investigation

For Immediate Release

May 22, 2006

Media Contact:

Mike Berger, 314-308-4893, press@911truth.org

NEW ZOGBY POLL REVEALS OVER 70 MILLION VOTING AGE AMERICANS DISTRUST OFFICIAL 9/11 STORY AND SUPPORT NEW INVESTIGATION OF POSSIBLE US GOVERNMENT ROLE IN THE ATTACKS.*

- 911Truth.org urges 2006 reform candidates to recognize a powerful new constituency.

(Utica, NY) - Although the Bush administration continues to exploit September 11 to justify domestic spying, unprecedented spending and a permanent state of war, a new Zogby poll reveals that less than half of the American public trusts the official 9/11 story or believes the attacks were adequately investigated.

The poll is the first scientific survey of Americans' belief in a 9/11 cover up or the need to investigate possible US government complicity, and was commissioned to inform deliberations at the June 2-4 "9/11: Revealing the Truth, Reclaiming Our Future" conference in Chicago. Poll results indicate 42% believe there has indeed been a cover up (with 10% unsure) and 45% think "Congress or an International Tribunal should re-investigate the attacks, including whether any US government officials consciously allowed or helped facilitate their success" (with 8% unsure). The poll of American residents was conducted from Friday, May 12 through Tuesday, May 16, 2006. Overall results have a margin of sampling error of +/- 2.9. All inquiries about questions, responses and demographics should be directed to Zogby International.

I'm sure Lamson supports the organization that commissioned this poll.

http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20060522022041421

It's funny how Lamson labels others with his pet nicknames, is full of hate and vitriol towards anyone and everyone that doesn't agree with him, and holds minorities in low esteem is so quick to accuse others of "ranting" when they question his views.

By the way, Lamson wrote: "Why did I leave out racial and minorites?" Nice syntax. If one didn't know better, it almost sounds like it's Lamson who is "ranting."

Lamson giving others advice on learning to read and learning to research is equivalent to......Well, you get the idea.

Good god Hogan, you are the PERFECT Lefty! Racist! Thats so funny and oh so predictable from a moron like you who has lost an argument.

For YOUR education please re-read the entire thread and you will find that BOTH Zogby polls were quoted. If you actaully had the ability to READ you would have known. LOL!

Sorry Hogan you LOSE again...

BTW if you want to look for HATE take a good look in the mirror, you will find plenty.

[Michael Hogan]

As usual, your words speak for themselves. I read and responded to your comments on the information contained in my post. Your comments were devoid of any reference or citation to what you were talking about.

My original post of the Scripps-Howard poll was for Peter. I read his posts on this thread. Not yours.

The simple fact is you could have provided a citation. However, attention to detail is not one of your strong suits.

I seldom read any of your other posts. There's nothing there of value.

As far as being a racist? You've already admitted to it. And here's a hint. Your tiresome habit of punctuating your epithets with CAPS gives readers the impression you are ranting.

That's your response to all the hate you exhibit for others that don't see the world exactly like you do?

For me to look in the mirror?

Like I said, your words speak for themselves.

[Craig Lamson]

As usual, your words speak for themselves. I read and responded to your comments on the information contained in my post. Your comments were devoid of any reference or citation to what you were talking about.

My original post of the Scripps-Howard poll was for Peter. I read his posts on this thread. Not yours.

The simple fact is you could have provided a citation. However, attention to detail is not one of your strong suits.

I seldom read any of your other posts. There's nothing there of value.

As far as being a racist? You've already admitted to it. And here's a hint. Your tiresome habit of punctuating your epithets with CAPS gives readers the impression you are ranting.

That's your response to all the hate you exhibit for others that don't see the world exactly like you do?

For me to look in the mirror?

Like I said, your words speak for themselves.

When you LOSE Hogan the honest thing to do is admit it. Your own words tell me that you are not honest. Simple as that.

I've not admitted I'm a racist, all I've done is point out simple fact that can be found in US census data. That you consider that racist speaks volumes about your lack of honesty and character or rather the lack of both.

Why should I provide a citation for articles that have already been placed in the thread? Because you are unable to read and then remember what you have read? Sheesh.

I do not hate for anyone. I do disilke a few people, and you are among that select group, but hate...never..

Claiming people hate others however is a very common tactic of the misguided left.

[Michael Hogan]

Why did I leave out racial and minorites? (sic) Because its what I wanted to do. Afraid to call them ignorant? not at all...most of them are..and Dimocrats to boot......

I've not admitted I'm a racist, all I've done is point out simple fact that can be found in US census data. That you consider that racist speaks volumes about your lack of honesty and character or rather the lack of both.

Yeah, right.

[Craig Lamson]

Why did I leave out racial and minorites? (sic) Because its what I wanted to do. Afraid to call them ignorant? not at all...most of them are..and Dimocrats to boot......

I've not admitted I'm a racist, all I've done is point out simple fact that can be found in US census data. That you consider that racist speaks volumes about your lack of honesty and character or rather the lack of both.

Yeah, right.

Spoken like a typical loser liberal.

Blah Blah Blah...about all you are good for Hogan...

[Michael Hogan]

Spoken like a typical loser liberal.

Blah Blah Blah...about all you are good for Hogan...

Gosh, that really hurts.