Carlos Marcello and the Making of a Mafia Myth

[Mike Carney]

Only Mafia boss higher than Marcello was Frank Costello and he was in on the assassination of JFK. Marcello and Costello were in business together so I think if they and Trafficante were worried about any of them talking about the assassination, they would have had them hit. Who else is there?

[Ron Bulman]

On 9/15/2020 at 9:33 PM, Ron Bulman said:

Bill Harvey's close friend John Roselli.  In my short Garrison article I've attributed it to David Scheim's Contract on America pg. 266.  Trouble is I can't find the word garroted there now.  What I was quoting from that page was about Roselli telling Jack Anderson of the Wa Po that Ruby was "one of our boy's".  It's referenced to an article in the Albuquerque Journal, September 8, 1976, a month after his death, and another article in the WP from January 3, 1979.  I've looked today and can't find the WP article but think that's where I read the garroted part.   Interesting aside, the next reference in COA is Dan Moldea in The Hoffa War's saying Roselli was last seen getting on a boat owned by an associate of Santo Trafficante..

Irregardless, as Mike alludes to he was found stuffed in an oil drum on a sandbar in Dumbfounding bay.  With his legs cut off and stuffed in it with his body.  Some reports say he was also shot.  A 2/25/1977 NYT article says he was held with a hand over his nose and mouth until he asphyxiated.  Then a Canon towel was taped over his mouth to make sure he was dead.  Why bother shooting him if your going to do that?  Another article I came across said he was strangled.  His death certificate says simply "asphyxiation'" - Complete and Return Immediately.

https://www.nytimes.com/1977/02/25/archives/mafia-said-to-have-slain-rosselli-because-of-his-senate-testimony.html

 

 

Regarding Rosselli the article I linked mentioned his Senate Intelligence Committee (taken in private at a hotel) testimony being sealed at the time.  He did this on 4/23/76 and 6/24/76.  Before disappearing after lunch on 7/28/76.  Does anyone know if his testimony has ever been released/is available for review?  Where might I look, suggestions?

Maybe I'll find the answer before the end of this read.  I'd seen the title before and dismissed it as sounding sensational.  Looking for more on Rosselli I read the description and reviews about Handsome Johnny by Lee Server.  $10 with shipping used.  Thus far, 80 pages it's more biographical and historical.  The last several pages are about Prohibition in LA and Orange County where he got his start, meeting boats bringing in loads from ships offshore, driving truckloads of liquor into LA.  The intro so to speak, an interview 33 years later of a detective at the scene of the recovery of the oil drum, is by nature kind of sensational.

Reading the 1977 NYT article liked above I wondered about a few things.  The un named source mentions a barrel with holes cut in it to help it sink.  Lifting the body with hooks to lower it into the barrel, the cut off legs stuffed in, chains for weights.  I guess they kept the barrel below decks when he boarded.  Why would 2 or 3 guys need hooks to get the body in the barrel?  This was well before cordless saws, a chainsaw would have been very messy, did they bring a bone saw along?  All gross thoughts but why didn't they wrap him in enough chain to sink him and just feed him to the fishes as the saying goes?

The detective said they had a marine tow boat tow it to shore, tried to get them to load it in the boat.  They refused.  A tow truck was called, the driver took the lid off.  "It was a blob."  "A blob?"  "Exactly"  "It didn't look human?"  "A grey and white blob.  With a powerful smell."  . . . "the legs were separated, chopped off-."  stuffed in on the side.

With a hatchet or axe?  I guess they brought plastic too to do all this on?  Why?  Was the barrel maybe meant to float, to be found?  To send a message to others not to talk.  A message from the CIA that it was all a mob job?  Johnny did get on that boat with Harvey off the coast of Florida in April 63, and survived that trip.  Maybe he still trusted them years later.     

Edited September 22, 2020 by Ron Bulman

[Ron Bulman]

The book on Rosselli is really interesting.  I thought he was from Chicago, came up through the Capone organization.  He passed through, staying a year, working loading and unloading booze during prohibition.  He drifted on to LA and worked his way quickly up through the local mob.  He went back to Chicago to watch a fight and was introduced to him afterwards.  Capone called him to come back and discuss potential West Coast operations.  So he repped for Capone then Nitti, first destroying a movie industry union, then taking it over.

I don't know if the book will go into Rosselli/Harvey, maybe Maheu, Col. Ralston, much less anything about the assassination or say Ruby.  But it's interesting background on a figure reportedly involved in the Castro assassination, some have suggested that of JFK as well.  I question that myself but find few hard answers.

[Mike Carney]

On 9/14/2020 at 7:49 PM, Ron Bulman said:

When I googled Colin McLaren and Smoking Gun the IMDb link gave it away.  When I saw the names Bonnar Menninger and George Hickey the alarm bells went off.  Hickey shooting JFK from the follow up car has been discredited for many years now.  McLaren and Menninger are not exactly ROKC material.  Bart would eat them for lunch.  These Aussie's failed in their search for the Truth or whatever they were trying to do. 

Ron, I am wondering who other than the Philadelphia Enquirer discredited the Hickey theory?

[Ron Bulman]

7 hours ago, Mike Carney said:

Ron, I am wondering who other than the Philadelphia Enquirer discredited the Hickey theory?

Jeff Morley for starters.  How much more discrediting does one need than Hickey himself used esteemed JFK assassination research attorney Jim Lesar to successfully sue Menninger and the publisher of the book.  So his grandchildren wouldn't have to deal with other kids asking about their grandfather shooting the President. 

Then the author waits until after Hickey is dead so they can't be sued to collaborate with McLaren and collect on the same Liez used before in a video format, the (Not) Smoking Gun. 

https://jfkfacts.org/gladwells-folly-did-a-secret-service-man-shoot-jfk/

Then there's Pat Speer, with McLaren's response.

http://www.patspeer.com/the-smoking-gun-that-lied

Baltimore Sun.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1998-02-03-1998034023-story.html

Here's a nice old discussion on the forum from the past.  Alludes to the fact other SSA's in the car said it didn't happen.

From Weisberg's files.

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/H Disk/Hickey George W/Item 01.pdf

Basics from the guru.

https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKhickey.htm

 

Edited September 29, 2020 by Ron Bulman

[Mike Carney]

Ron, thanks for all the articles and I have read them all and not one of them addresses the evidence. You have SSA’s saying they didn’t see Hickey fire the weapon and what would you expect them to say, they have to protect the SS. You have the lawsuit, of course they are going to sue, the SS has to protect its reputation. You have newspaper articles that don’t mention the evidence, nothing substantial that destroys the theory. I would be happy to discuss any point in any article you list. Again, none of them address the evidence.   

[Joe Bauer]

Ron, was Sam Giancana under 24 hour surveillance during the time he was shot, or not?

How did this story of this surveillance get out there?

If he was, who was doing the surveillance? 

I think I may have even seen an episode of "Unsolved Mysteries" on the Giancana killing. Where they mentioned this surveillance, and the mystery of it somehow being breached so that Giancana's killer could get into his home to hit Giancana and then get away.

Either with Robert Stack or Dennis Farina.

[Mark Stevens]

7 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Ron, was Sam Giancana under 24 hour surveillance during the time he was shot, or not?

How did this story of this surveillance get out there?

If he was, who was doing the surveillance? 

I think I may have even seen an episode of "Unsolved Mysteries" on the Giancana killing. Where they mentioned this surveillance, and the mystery of it somehow being breached so that Giancana's killer could get into his home to hit Giancana and then get away.

Either with Robert Stack or Dennis Farina.

I've always believed Anthony Spilotro was the one who killed Giancana.

[Ron Bulman]

11 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Ron, was Sam Giancana under 24 hour surveillance during the time he was shot, or not?

How did this story of this surveillance get out there?

If he was, who was doing the surveillance? 

I think I may have even seen an episode of "Unsolved Mysteries" on the Giancana killing. Where they mentioned this surveillance, and the mystery of it somehow being breached so that Giancana's killer could get into his home to hit Giancana and then get away.

Either with Robert Stack or Dennis Farina.

I've not read the books on Giancana.  The few pages in Hit List surmise what I've read on line pretty well.  Though I don't know any thing about some of the sources.  His house was a fortress, he let in and knew his killer.  Well enough to turn his back on him while frying sausages.  22 with a silencer, emptied into the back of the head.  Why?  He was dead after the 1st, 2nd, 3rd?  Reloaded, turned Sam over, shot him 6 times in/around the mouth.

Trouble is.  On here, this site I think.  I've seen an autopsy photo of Sam Giancana with no bullet wounds around his mouth, disputing this claim.

Regarding surveillance HL says three three surveillance cars reportedly leave the area (CPD, FBI, CIA, or?) of Sam's residence at 11:15.  11:30 he flips  a sausage, boom.   

[Mark Stevens]

7 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

I've not read the books on Giancana.  The few pages in Hit List surmise what I've read on line pretty well.  Though I don't know any thing about some of the sources.  His house was a fortress, he let in and knew his killer.  Well enough to turn his back on him while frying sausages.  22 with a silencer, emptied into the back of the head.  Why?  He was dead after the 1st, 2nd, 3rd?  Reloaded, turned Sam over, shot him 6 times in/around the mouth.

Trouble is.  On here, this site I think.  I've seen an autopsy photo of Sam Giancana with no bullet wounds around his mouth, disputing this claim.

Regarding surveillance HL says three three surveillance cars reportedly leave the area (CPD, FBI, CIA, or?) of Sam's residence at 11:15.  11:30 he flips  a sausage, boom.   

I'm pretty sure the photos show what appear to be bullet wounds in the left side of his face. I count three...two in the cheek and one in the chin area. I'm not sure if they are entrance or exit wounds though, but I do believe they are entrance wounds.

There's usually only one reason a member of the mafia is shot in the mouth. While this could be a red herring, I believe his talking was the nail in his coffin. He was already ruffling feathers by refusing to share revenues from ventures he was involved with. Then with the attention his actions brought upon the "organization" as well as him likely to testify again....

Like has been said regarding Giancana, "he should have remembered what happened to Bugsy."

Also, the "why" is the same as it always is...to send a clear message. While you or I may not understand what that message is, the people it's meant for read it loud and clear.

Edited September 30, 2020 by Mark Stevens