RAND's "Firehose of Falsehoods" Model of Propaganda --Implications for JFKA Truth

[Cliff Varnell]

Just now, Chris Barnard said:

No 🙂 
I have a life and, prefer to add to my knowledge, not subtract from it, Cliff. I genuinely think you'd be better off playing in the YouTube comments, you'd get more biters there. 
 

Is this coherent?

Just now, Chris Barnard said:

On the music front, I am pleased for you, that's a great way to earn your keep. It's one of my passions too.

I prefer to debate facts, not speculate on the character short-comings of those with whom I disagree.

[Kirk Gallaway]

Yeah, I do see a lack of detail and context here, particularly from people outside U.S. sometimes about U.S. incursions, but that's understandable. It's not their country. But of course, we can't overlook Clinton trying to take out Bin laden in Sudan!

[Cliff Varnell]

6 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

James DiEugenio, dreadnought researcher, has broadly posited that JFK was assassinated largely due to his foreign policy positions. Certainly, a defensible view. 

I apply a negative template to DiEugenio’s analysis of JFK’s foreign policies.

What does DiEugenio leave out?

The Bay of Pigs, the partition of Laos, regime change in So. Vietnam.

It was Kennedy’s mistakes that got him killed, not his enlightened successes.

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

I agree Cliff, these "strong counter arguments" just disintegrate into retreat. Has Chris defended one point?

I've been wondering whether to comment on this. I'll start with W. You know I love your contributions. It's  an interesting topic , but you lose focus with 2 paragraphs. The first one I get the impression you want to segue again into expounding about 911, and Benjamin didn't take the bait.

The second one is mentioning Litwin. Di Eugenio's obsession with Litwin over the years is like  Trump trying to undermine Obama. In the past he's talked about trailing Litwin to other websites. What other authors do that here? WhoTF  is Fred Litwin anyway??? If Litwin's books are a commercial success, it's a travesty, and I can understand a professional jealousy. But so much of Litwin  is so off the mark. Why are we discussing him at all, except for Jim's obsession?  I cringed when I saw Jim starting another thread about him. Just about every other topic is more interesting. IMO

W: An example of this approach would be Fred Littwin's latest Warren Commission propaganda being pre-emptively labelled and debunked by James DiEugenio.

W. We've discussed 4 years of propaganda much more insidious, much more monumental than this. In fact isn't that what makes your piece timely? 4 years of Trump?  How could a small time wimp like  Litwin get a mention?

*****

Benjamin's right in that the single most offensive policy to elites is Trump's trade policies with China. Still Trump was bungling, corrupt and inept with that. He came into the Presidency owing  China Bank 211 million dollars. He actually tried to get Xi to investigate Biden too! Do you think that comes with no strings attached? So he was even prepared to cave at least partially in on that!

And about the Mideast, talk about getting sucked into superficial symbolism.  Maybe the defense establishment didn't like his rearrangement of deck chairs but they're all still there.  It's basically if you like the Saudis and Netanyahu, you're happy and if you're Iranian or Palestinian, you're sad!

****

Jimmy Carter was 4 years without a war. Cliff do you remember the first 4 years of Clinton?

Jeeez, do you really think a European has the desire to run through the unedifying, embarrassing past 4 years of US politics?  It's been lived through every part of social media, in blue, red and neutral. I don't think you even know you have a bias. 
As for retreat, you wrote the book on it.  

[Benjamin Cole]

3 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

That is fair enough. It would certainly divert focus. Our logic is to think; the more people involved, the more improbable a conspiracy is. I listened to a former CIA chap on Joe Rogan's podcast last year and he was asked about the JFK assassination and his response was "someone would have talked". That really summed up how most people look at an event like that, that nobody can keep a secret or that human guilt or conscience will rise up and mean a whistleblowing or truth telling occurs. In my country we have a strong sense of Judeo christian values, which we are taught to us directly from a very young age. So someone like John Perkins "Confessions of an economic hitman" spent a lot of his life as a frontman for big business / America, doing some pretty bad things all over the world and his conscience rose up and he wrote books about the things he was ashamed of. That's exactly how my mind would work, as I have conscience and compassion. But, many of assume conscience exists and by religious folk it's one of the proofs of he existence of god. In psychology it's very unclear whether conscience exists. So I don't assume that because I feel that way, that someone like Hilary Clinton or GHW Bush would feel the same in the same circumstances. In fact there is evidence that people, families or a class that benefits tremendously from wars happening, do not feel that same conscience I do. I believe people are products of their own environment, if my upbringing is one of love and compassion for humankind, it is different to another person who is brought up on values of green, selfishness and that it is every man for himself. The more I read, the more it seems clear that much of a political class don't care about the man on the street, despite well managed PR teams and fundraising for charities making them look saintly in the public domain. I am open to the concept that a whole class could be responsible for heinous acts and conspiracy, if it benefits them. I think the ones who feel uneasy would be educated enough to know the consequences of moving against their class (something we've probably read a lot about). I suspect JFK was very much viewed as a traitor to his class, especially as his father had benefitted from being in that network (speculative). I know lots of wealthy people and they think a lot differently to the rest. I really do want to believe the world is a better place than it is, the more I read, the more I think I am wrong to believe that. 

Unfortunately, I don't have a better explanation than "cui bono" for 9/11. So, the answer is in who profited, whether that be trading or from the wars that ensued. 

 

I agree with you that there is a powerful and callous globalist class, unattached to any nation, city, neighborhood, ethnicity or culture. They are running most of US national government, media and academia. 

On small example: In the IMF, World Bank, and any number of globalist think tanks, the definition of family farms is "small and inefficient."  In nation after nation, the globalists are pushing for the type of huge agribusiness that has taken over the US. 

You know what happens to generations of extended families that live on farms when economies of scale come to define the ag-business? They are obliterated. 

The book, "Trade Wars are Class Wars" by Michael Pettis is a must-read. 

It is not China vs. the US. It is the CCP, multinationals and American leadership against the employee classes of both nations. 

Well, I am rambling. Good luck out there. Better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness....but when it is raining, resolve can weaken....

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

I agree with you that there is a powerful and callous globalist class, unattached to any nation, city, neighborhood, ethnicity or culture. They are running most of US national government, media and academia. 

On small example: In the IMF, World Bank, and any number of globalist think tanks, the definition of family farms is "small and inefficient."  In nation after nation, the globalists are pushing for the type of huge agribusiness that has taken over the US. 

You know what happens to generations of extended families that live on farms when economies of scale come to define the ag-business? They are obliterated. 

The book, "Trade Wars are Class Wars" by Michael Pettis is a must-read. 

It is not China vs. the US. It is the CCP, multinationals and American leadership against the employee classes of both nations. 

Well, I am rambling. Good luck out there. Better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness....but when it is raining, resolve can weaken....

That's how I see it too, particularly those organisations. I'll use my next audible credit on that book, I am reading one a week at the moment. I like the idea of hope, no matter how great the despair, I think that's probably why films like the Shawshank Redemption or books like Papillon are my favourites. I do wonder if we're better off knowing, or not knowing. I also wonder if the JFK magnetism is because we are mostly idealists here. 

[W. Niederhut]

7 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Chris--Thanks for your comments. 

I am deep into another "JFK Assassination" phase, a recurring vice since the 1960s. I don't think I can handle any more plots, machinations and malfeasance. 

Add on: I am inclined to accept conspiracies that have very few participants, and I have written an article that "explains" the JFKA with only two-three conspirators---but a few more  witting, semi-witting or unwitting accessories after the fact.  

If you have an explanation that offers a small confederacy pulling off 9/11...I will take a look. I am open-minded. 

Good luck out there, friend.

 

Benjamin,

    I don't want to turn this thread into a 9/11 Truth thread, but let me mention a few critical points about the validity of 9/11 conspiracy theories.  The Swiss historian Daniele Ganser correctly pointed out several years ago that, "All theories about 9/11 are conspiracy theories."  No one believes that 9/11 was the work of a Lone Nut.

   A.  The official Bush-Cheney-Zelikow 9/11 "conspiracy theory" about Osama Bin Laden has been definitively debunked by multiple lines of evidence.

   1)  The steel WTC skyscrapers (WTC1, WTC2, and WTC7) were demolished by pre-planted, steel-liquefying, concrete pulverizing explosives-- not trickling jet fuel.

        That is a scientific fact, well documented by the research of the M$M blacked-out Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth.

         Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth | WTC Twin Towers and Building 7 (ae911truth.org)

    2)  FBI Director Robert Mueller and Dick Cheney, themselves, told Congress and Zelikow's 9/11 Commission, respectively, that they had never found a scrap of evidence linking Osama Bin Laden to 9/11.  Yet, blaming Bin Laden and "Al Qaeda" for 9/11 was Bush and Cheney's pretext for starting the Afghan and Iraq Wars!

    B.  There is ample circumstantial (and largely suppressed) evidence that 9/11 was a joint military false flag op of the U.S., Saudi, and Israel governments.

    1)  Saudi Prince Bandar "Bush" and the Saudi government have been linked to the funding and training in the U.S. of the alleged 9/11 hijackers (Hanjour, Atta, et.al.)  And we know that Louis Freeh's FBI and the Bush-Cheney administration repeatedly ignored multiple FBI field reports in 2001 warning about these Muslim pilots-in-training.

   2)   The FBI also quietly released the five Israeli Mossad agents arrested at the Holland Tunnel on 9/11 (after witnesses reported that they were filming and celebrating the WTC demolitions.)  They were employed prior to 9/11 by a Mossad agent named Dominick Suter at a company called Urban Moving Systems, in Weehawken, New Jersey.  (Suter fled to Israel after the five were arrested on 9/11.)  But the entire affair was completely blacked out of the U.S. mainstream media for the past 19 and 1/2 years, other than a lone article in a Bergen County newspaper on 9/11!  Thus, it appears that the U.S. and Israeli governments closely collaborated on the 9/11 op (along with the Saudi government.)

   3)  Cui bono?  Who benefitted from the 9/11 op?  The U.S. military-industrial complex, (including Halliburton, Blackwater, big oil) the Saudis, and Israel, who perceived Saddam Hussein (along with Iran and Syria) as dire existential threats.

[Benjamin Cole]

8 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Benjamin,

    I don't want to turn this thread into a 9/11 Truth thread, but let me mention a few critical points about the validity of 9/11 conspiracy theories.  The Swiss historian Daniele Ganser correctly pointed out several years ago that, "All theories about 9/11 are conspiracy theories."  No one believes that 9/11 was the work of a Lone Nut.

   A.  The official Bush-Cheney-Zelikow 9/11 "conspiracy theory" about Osama Bin Laden has been definitively debunked by multiple lines of evidence.

   1)  The steel WTC skyscrapers (WTC1, WTC2, and WTC7) were demolished by pre-planted, steel-liquefying, concrete pulverizing explosives-- not trickling jet fuel.

        That is a scientific fact, well documented by the research of the M$M blacked-out Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth.

         Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth | WTC Twin Towers and Building 7 (ae911truth.org)

    2)  FBI Director Robert Mueller and Dick Cheney, themselves, told Congress and Zelikow's 9/11 Commission, respectively, that they had never found a scrap of evidence linking Osama Bin Laden to 9/11.  Yet, blaming Bin Laden and "Al Qaeda" for 9/11 was Bush and Cheney's pretext for starting the Afghan and Iraq Wars!

    B.  There is ample circumstantial (and largely suppressed) evidence that 9/11 was a joint military false flag op of the U.S., Saudi, and Israel governments.

    1)  Saudi Prince Bandar "Bush" and the Saudi government have been linked to the funding and training in the U.S. of the alleged 9/11 hijackers (Hanjour, Atta, et.al.)  And we know that Louis Freeh's FBI and the Bush-Cheney administration repeatedly ignored multiple FBI field reports in 2001 warning about these Muslim pilots-in-training.

   2)   The FBI also quietly released the five Israeli Mossad agents arrested at the Holland Tunnel on 9/11 (after witnesses reported that they were filming and celebrating the WTC demolitions.)  They were employed prior to 9/11 by a Mossad agent named Dominick Suter at a company called Urban Moving Systems, in Weehawken, New Jersey.  (Suter fled to Israel after the five were arrested on 9/11.)  But the entire affair was completely blacked out of the U.S. mainstream media for the past 19 and 1/2 years, other than a lone article in a Bergen County newspaper on 9/11!  Thus, it appears that the U.S. and Israeli governments closely collaborated on the 9/11 op (along with the Saudi government.)

   3)  Cui bono?  Who benefitted from the 9/11 op?  The U.S. military-industrial complex, (including Halliburton, Blackwater, big oil) the Saudis, and Israel, who perceived Saddam Hussein (along with Iran and Syria) as dire existential threats.

W.--

 

Thanks for your comment. I have not looked into the 9/11 situation, except to note that it led to just the sort of results you outline, all financed by us, the citizens and taxpayers. 

I am keeping an open mind. 

Edited February 18, 2021 by Benjamin Cole
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[Andrew Prutsok]

When the Deep State has it in for someone, they don’t get to just walk away.