Jean Rene Souetre expelled from the US 18hrs after JFKA?!

[Leslie Sharp]

42 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

Leslie,

You can say "alleged:. or "suspected of" all day long, and I would not have a problem with that.

Heck, at one time, he was one of the most wanted men in France.  As I pointed out in an earlier post, France supplied the names of OAS members to both the West German and Italian authorities in 1962 in advance of DeGaulle's visits to both those countries. As Joachim Joesten points out in his book, DeGaulle and His Murders,

 

"Suspected to have played a leading part in planning the attack" is not the same thing as saying he was one of the shooters.

As for Ganis, someone sent me what Ganis wrote, and I threw it down in disgust after the first three pages or so. Ganis had Souetre's birthplace wrong, he misspelled his wife's name. he got Soutre's military service career wrong, and the prison Souetre was sent to wrong.

Ganis doesn't, or didn't know the first thing about Souetre.

Steve Thomas

I think it would be better for you address the editing issues with Ralph directly. Unfortunately, it's a contemporary phenomenon among independent publishers struggling to remain independent and solvent.  I also think it's unreasonable to throw a book down after three pages when it's clear the author's primary source material has been vetted by highly regarded auctioneers.  

However (and I respect if you deliberately chose to ignore what I presented), you're not addressing the fact that Souetre appears on critical dates in the Lafitte datebook directly related to the plot and execution of the president in Dallas.

And, you haven't shared your opinion of Gary and Bud's pursuit, perhaps again by choice?

I would ask, where do you think Dick Russell, a journalist not known for making unfounded assertions, came up with "known assassin"?

From his Limited Analysis of the Pierre Lafitte datebook as published in Coup ...

SOUETRE. This clearly is Jean Rene Souetre, whose name appears in a number of entries between April 25 and December 4. It appears that Souetre was part of a “kill squad” who showed up for meetings in New Orleans, Madrid, and Mexico City prior to the assassination. Souetre’s name first appeared in the “assassination literature” following a 1977 release of CIA documents, which stated that “he had been expelled from the U.S. at Fort Worth or Dallas 48 hours after the assassination . . . to either Mexico or Canada.” According to what the FBI told a Souetre acquaintance whom I interviewed, he’d been “flown out that afternoon by a private pilot . . . in a government plane.” Souetre was a known hitman for the OAS, a terrorist group in France that had targeted President de Gaulle. 

And from Dick's Foreword to Coup ...

In implicating Willoughby (whose possible role was first raised in my book The Man Who Knew Too Much), French hitman Jean Rene Souetre, soldier-of-fortune Thomas Eli Davis, Jr., and oil industrialist Jack Crichton, Coup in Dallas opens wider doors to which researchers have been seeking keys for years.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Leslie Sharp

[Evan Marshall]

Most hitman are not snipers-met some while assigned to Detroit Homicide. Why try and smuggle some notorious rascal into the states when the US had large numbers of equally if not more qualified than some well-known foreigner?

[Steve Thomas]

2 hours ago, Leslie Sharp said:

I think it would be better for you address the editing issues with Ralph directly. Unfortunately, it's a contemporary phenomenon among independent publishers struggling to remain independent and solvent.  I also think it's unreasonable to throw a book down after three pages when it's clear the author's primary source material has been vetted by highly regarded auctioneers.  

And, you haven't shared your opinion of Gary and Bud's pursuit, perhaps again by choice?

 

Leslie,

Ganis identified General Clement as the Camp Commandant of the St. Maurice L'Ardoise prison camp.

In reality, General Claude Clement Was the Witness (or as we call it, the best man) at Souetre's wedding. He was the Deputy Commander of the Ninth Military District.

In an interview with Claude Clement in 1971, entitled, "The Greening of a Nato General",

http://books.google.com/books?id=fM7a-OBysYcC&pg=PA301&lpg=PA301&dq=%22General+Claude+Clement%22&source=bl&ots=-yJRztgOJQ&sig=CWLOp3037ENeOuPdg-EY7_xRM_k&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_fUJU8qkOOHOyQHRl4FI&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22General%20Claude%20Clement%22&f=false

pp. 301-304.

author Sandro Ottolenghi identifies General Clement this way:

Ganis doesn't know what he is talking about.

As far as Bud Fensterwald goes, as I've said before,  I  believe he was led down the garden path by Gilbert Levavalier, a sworn enemy of the OAS.

 

PS: And as far as contacting Ganis directly, may I respectfully suggest you do that. You're the one using him as a source.

Steve Thomas

Edited March 22, 2023 by Steve Thomas

[Leslie Sharp]

1 hour ago, Steve Thomas said:

Leslie,

Ganis identified General Clement as the Camp Commandant of the St. Maurice L'Ardoise prison camp.

In reality, General Claude Clement Was the Witness (or as we call it, the best man) at Souetre's wedding. He was the Deputy Commander of the Ninth Military District.

In an interview with Claude Clement in 1971, entitled, "The Greening of a Nato General",

http://books.google.com/books?id=fM7a-OBysYcC&pg=PA301&lpg=PA301&dq=%22General+Claude+Clement%22&source=bl&ots=-yJRztgOJQ&sig=CWLOp3037ENeOuPdg-EY7_xRM_k&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_fUJU8qkOOHOyQHRl4FI&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22General%20Claude%20Clement%22&f=false

pp. 301-304.

author Sandro Ottolenghi identifies General Clement this way:

Ganis doesn't know what he is talking about.

As far as Bud Fensterwald goes, as I've said before,  I  believe he was led down the garden path by Gilbert Levavalier, a sworn enemy of the OAS.

 

PS: And as far as contacting Ganis directly, may I respectfully suggest you do that. You're the one using him as a source.

Steve Thomas

Thanks Steve, and fyi, Ganis has refused to communicate with me beyond my initial request to talk.

I won't press you any further to remark on Dick Russell, or Gary Shaw's efforts. In my view, your issues regarding misidentification of the camp commander, the misspelling of Jean's wife's name, and other technical errors come across as a tempest in a teapot relative to the lost Souetre files and the INS report.  It's unfortunate that those relatively inconsequential errors have interfered with logical and far more pressing concerns. Also, you ignore Lafitte altogether which seems fairly close-minded to me, considering your reputation as a fine researcher. I would think you might at least be curious.

[Leslie Sharp]

4 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Leslie,

Ganis identified General Clement as the Camp Commandant of the St. Maurice L'Ardoise prison camp.

In reality, General Claude Clement Was the Witness (or as we call it, the best man) at Souetre's wedding. He was the Deputy Commander of the Ninth Military District.

In an interview with Claude Clement in 1971, entitled, "The Greening of a Nato General",

http://books.google.com/books?id=fM7a-OBysYcC&pg=PA301&lpg=PA301&dq=%22General+Claude+Clement%22&source=bl&ots=-yJRztgOJQ&sig=CWLOp3037ENeOuPdg-EY7_xRM_k&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_fUJU8qkOOHOyQHRl4FI&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22General%20Claude%20Clement%22&f=false

pp. 301-304.

author Sandro Ottolenghi identifies General Clement this way:

Ganis doesn't know what he is talking about.

As far as Bud Fensterwald goes, as I've said before,  I  believe he was led down the garden path by Gilbert Levavalier, a sworn enemy of the OAS.

 

PS: And as far as contacting Ganis directly, may I respectfully suggest you do that. You're the one using him as a source.

Steve Thomas

PS. In defense of Ralph Ganis, Fred Litwin posted a scathing review of Coup on Amazon having read nine pages. Similarly, Greg Doudna posted an unflattering assessment of our book on this very forum. He did so within days of the book hitting the streets so to speak. He focused on a subjective analysis of the provenance of the datebook, and the explanation of why the authentication process was incomplete at the time of publication.  He didn't speak to Hank's introduction at all in spite of it being a thorough statement of both provenance and authentication, but rather honed in on my recounting of what Hank shared with me during the two years we worked together on the project.  What struck me, and I don't remember Greg actually explaining, was how he managed to read and assess a 700+ page book in a week or ten days sufficient to make a studied analysis? 

 

I hope you will reconsider Ganis' book on Skorzeny and drop him a recommendation to correct the errors. Would that be the professional thing to do instead of complaining about his shortcomings on a forum that he doesn't follow?

Edited March 22, 2023 by Leslie Sharp

[Leslie Sharp]

7 hours ago, Evan Marshall said:

Most hitman are not snipers-met some while assigned to Detroit Homicide. Why try and smuggle some notorious rascal into the states when the US had large numbers of equally if not more qualified than some well-known foreigner?

We asked ourselves the question, Evan.  The answer resides in the fact that no one has been arrested for firing in Dealey other than the patsy.

It was a sophisticated, well thought out scheme designed by skilled tactician Otto Skorzeny who (literally) wrote the book on just such an operation, utilizing assassins he knew personally for the primary team.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Leslie Sharp

[David McLean]

In my humble estimation, much of the credibility due to Coup derives from H P Albarelli’s monumental work on the murder of Dr Frank Olsen. His research method seems to rely on close cooperation and trust-building with participants, initially non judgmental and truth-seeking. A far cry from the bilateral or adversarial approach of many here.

That said,I am having trouble fitting in Skorzeny to an already over-determined conundrum that is the JFKA and it’s coverup. Meantime, I am collecting books info etc on doors opened by Hank Albarelli and endorsed by Dick Russell. And trying to open my mind and verify these new insights.

 

[Chuck Schwartz]

David, in case you have not read any of Mae Brussell, here is an essay she wrote in 1984..http://www.maebrussell.com/Mae Brussell Articles/National Socialist Connection to JFK Assass.html/

Mae was on Pacifica radio (in the 1970's and 1980's) giving her analysis of the JFKA .

I was  born in 1951.

 

[Paul Brancato]

I can understand why Skorzeny’s participation is a stretch, and also whether Pierre Lafitte’s notes are proof. But what is not in doubt is the collusion of our post war National security apparatus with the German and Eastern European remnants of the third Reich. We know much more now than Mae Brussell did then, and it only gets worse the more you look. The standard line defending this is of course the necessity of fighting Communism. If it was just German rocket scientists that were enlisted by the US I might buy this explanation, but it’s way deeper than that. A friend who has dug down into available documents told me that some 50,000 of these war criminals thugs were brought here, using various rat lines. Skorzeny was certainly active in this effort, and he was released by the Army CIC and protected in Madrid, where he operated with impunity. Arnold Silver, one of his interrogators who later joined the CIA and became station chief in Luxembourg, recommended Skorzeny’s release, saying he judged him a patriot, not a Natzi. Silver worked closely with William Harvey in many areas including the QJWIN project. JFK made clear his intention to weaken the hold that our military had on the ship of state when he lobbied for joint US-Russia space exploration. Can you imagine the response of NASA rocket scientists? Of the Joint Chiefs? 

[Evan Marshall]

Blame it on the National Socialist's and the French? Why the continued cover up if the CIA and Fed Govt skirts are clean?

[Paul Brancato]

2 hours ago, Evan Marshall said:

Blame it on the National Socialist's and the French? Why the continued cover up if the CIA and Fed Govt skirts are clean?

Because the national socialists and the French rightists were in league with our CIA. If French shooters did the deed they were hired guns, not acting on their own. To answer a previous point you made, if in fact Souetre and other foreign nationals were Dealey Plaza shooters it would be considered outsourcing, keeping things removed from American citizens. Yes I do agree with you that it’s possible that the US military used its homegrown assassins. But wouldn’t you agree that there is a lot of crossover, for instance in the International drug trade, between US assets and foreign ones? 
 

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by Paul Brancato

[Roger Odisio]

26 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

Because the national socialists and the French rightists were in league with our CIA. If French shooters did the deed they were hired guns, not acting on their own. To answer a previous point you made, if in fact Souetre and other foreign nationals were Dealey Plaza shooters it would be considered outsourcing, keeping things removed from American citizens. Yes I do agree with you that it’s possible that the US military used its homegrown assassins. But wouldn’t you agree that there is a lot of crossover, for instance in the International drug trade, between US assets and foreign ones? 
 

 

There is also the memo on the ZRRifle project from Helms, I think, posted here a while back, in which the CIA expresses a preference for foreign assassins "for operational security reasons".  Fly them in, do the job, and send them back to their safe haven.  Beats having to kill them later, like that messy Oswald deal. 

[Roger Odisio]

4 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

I can understand why Skorzeny’s participation is a stretch, and also whether Pierre Lafitte’s notes are proof. But what is not in doubt is the collusion of our post war National security apparatus with the German and Eastern European remnants of the third Reich. We know much more now than Mae Brussell did then, and it only gets worse the more you look. The standard line defending this is of course the necessity of fighting Communism. If it was just German rocket scientists that were enlisted by the US I might buy this explanation, but it’s way deeper than that. A friend who has dug down into available documents told me that some 50,000 of these war criminals thugs were brought here, using various rat lines. Skorzeny was certainly active in this effort, and he was released by the Army CIC and protected in Madrid, where he operated with impunity. Arnold Silver, one of his interrogators who later joined the CIA and became station chief in Luxembourg, recommended Skorzeny’s release, saying he judged him a patriot, not a Natzi. Silver worked closely with William Harvey in many areas including the QJWIN project. JFK made clear his intention to weaken the hold that our military had on the ship of state when he lobbied for joint US-Russia space exploration. Can you imagine the response of NASA rocket scientists? Of the Joint Chiefs? 

Speaking of the fact that "JFK made clear his intention to weaken the hold that our military had on the ship of state" makes me think of Kennedy's commencement address at American University in the spring of '63.  Ever read or watched it?  Everybody should study it.  It was JFK's plan for the future. It was about breaking off the shackles of war and achieving peace.  It is a clear statement of what we lost when he was murdered. 

Here is the key passage:  "What kind of peace do I mean? What kind of peace do we seek? Not a Pax Americana enforced by American weapons of war.  I am talking about genuine peace, the kind of peace that makes life on earth worth living, the kind that enables men and women and nations to grow and to hope and to build a better life for their children--not merely peace for Americans but peace for all men and women."

There could not be a clearer statement of the threat he posed to the CIA directed war machine. 

[Leslie Sharp]

10 hours ago, David McLean said:

In my humble estimation, much of the credibility due to Coup derives from H P Albarelli’s monumental work on the murder of Dr Frank Olsen. His research method seems to rely on close cooperation and trust-building with participants, initially non judgmental and truth-seeking. A far cry from the bilateral or adversarial approach of many here.

That said,I am having trouble fitting in Skorzeny to an already over-determined conundrum that is the JFKA and it’s coverup. Meantime, I am collecting books info etc on doors opened by Hank Albarelli and endorsed by Dick Russell. And trying to open my mind and verify these new insights.

 

David, at the risk of seeming presumptuous, on behalf of Hank's professionalism, thank you.

As you allude, among his strengths was the ability to "listen" non-judgmentally to his sources. We had frequent conversations related to the skill.  I wrestled with, for instance, the apparent depth of awareness Pierre Lafitte's wife had of what was underway. I asked if that didn't suggest she was an accomplice, and if so, "how dare she"? Hank would quietly and firmly admonish me that not everyone saw the assassination of Kennedy through my lens or his for that matter. Rene was European, her family experienced two World Wars up close and personal, her perspectives were shaped by events.  He repeated that our job was to lay out facts and let the chips fall. That said, during the last several months of his life, he began to draw conclusions about the case, and by early 2019, he told me how he wanted us to wrap up the first edition of Coup, "I think serious consideration should be given now to doing 3-4 end pages that speak generally to Fourth Reich. Rise of—revamped to these times but true National Socialism—good way to end the book."

The Irish saying, "my prayers are valuable because they're so rare"?  comes to mind because similarly, Hank rarely penned such declarative statements.

You note Hank’s investigation into Olson led him to the assassination in Dallas — a fact that should not be lost on anyone.  Asst. DA Sarocco opined, How’d I know this (Olson) case would eventually lead to Jack Kennedy!” (paraphrasing).  

Hank owned three copies of Russell’s The Man Who Knew Too Much, all falling apart due to constant consultation. We laughed that I owned two in similar shape.  Dick’s breakthrough investigation served as the Bible for our project.  And, as no doubt you’re aware, Dick provides a detailed albeit limited analysis of the 1963 Lafitte datebook, predicated on the assumption the datebook is authentic. 

Thanks for your interest. 

Edited March 23, 2023 by Leslie Sharp

[Leslie Sharp]

6 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

I can understand why Skorzeny’s participation is a stretch, and also whether Pierre Lafitte’s notes are proof. But what is not in doubt is the collusion of our post war National security apparatus with the German and Eastern European remnants of the third Reich. We know much more now than Mae Brussell did then, and it only gets worse the more you look. The standard line defending this is of course the necessity of fighting Communism. If it was just German rocket scientists that were enlisted by the US I might buy this explanation, but it’s way deeper than that. A friend who has dug down into available documents told me that some 50,000 of these war criminals thugs were brought here, using various rat lines. Skorzeny was certainly active in this effort, and he was released by the Army CIC and protected in Madrid, where he operated with impunity. Arnold Silver, one of his interrogators who later joined the CIA and became station chief in Luxembourg, recommended Skorzeny’s release, saying he judged him a patriot, not a Natzi. Silver worked closely with William Harvey in many areas including the QJWIN project. JFK made clear his intention to weaken the hold that our military had on the ship of state when he lobbied for joint US-Russia space exploration. Can you imagine the response of NASA rocket scientists? Of the Joint Chiefs? 

I can understand why Skorzeny’s participation is a stretch, and also whether Pierre Lafitte’s notes are proof. 

The most frequent challenge to Coup and Hank's "scoop" is whether Lafitte's records are authentic, followed by and if they're authentic, where's the proof they were recorded in real time, and from there, why should we believe he  (or Hank?!) didn't contrive a hoax out of mischief or as part of a disinformation operation designed for the eventual discovery of the the datebook(s) sometime around the 50th or 60th anniversary?  And permutations thereof. 

 

Providing the datebook passes the aforementioned litmus test — there's no doubt Pierre's datebook entries that reference Otto and Ilse Skorzeny are proof of their direct, active, and essential roles in the Dallas plot. When one studies the datebook very very carefully, factoring in the Skorzeny papers detailed in Major Ganis's book, Skorzeny's history with World Commerce under Donovan, Dulles, and "Intrepid", his familiarity with Al Ulmer in Madrid leading to obvious conclusions that he met Angleton and Win Scott during those years, Willoughby's time in Madrid, Ilse's role using Previews Inc. (founded by Donovan's director of security during the war) as cover, Otto's history of running paramilitary training camps for snipers and assassins including Jean Souetre, the appearance of Hans Rudel Ulrich in the datebook, the quote from a Lafitte family member that Leon Degrelle was anxious to contribute to the expense of the Dallas plot, we posit that it's not a stretch by any measure that known N-azi SS officer Skorzeny was the central tactician for the hit in Dealey.