Looking for Rare Dealey Plaza Video

[Joseph Borelli]

14 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Well, in Smith's defense, a lot was going on, and he was searching for someone who was armed. He was shown proper ID. 

Interestingly, after the JFKA, the Secret Service upgraded their badging and ID systems. As I recall, they took the CIA out of the loop. 

Sheriff Seymour Weitzman also related he saw a man with SS credentials in the area. 

Given the gunsmoke and the SS credentials, the evidence suggests gunfire from the Grassy Knoll area. 

Good point I’m sure it was chaotic and he probably regretted that decision not to inquire more for the rest of his life.
 

I didn’t know they upgraded their badges and ID’s after the JFKA but it makes sense. Roy Hargraves was known to have fake SS Identification. 

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Richard Price said:

If I am not mistaken, this video was once posted in relation to the "pool of blood" on/near the sidewalk.  The man is looking down at the puddle of liquid.  I do not know who he is either and cannot say for sure he is one of the witnesses to the pool of blood, or as it was later deemed, a red colored soft drink from the overturned or broken bottle in that area.

Thanks 

[Pete Mellor]

5 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Given the gunsmoke and the SS credentials, the evidence suggests gunfire from the Grassy Knoll area. 

Ben, I've always had the statements and sightings of witnesses make a north knoll shooter more than just a suggestion.  More like the grail for conspiracy.  The witnesses in front of the knoll heard and felt shots whizzing past their heads.  Zapruder stated a shot from over his shoulder.  Bill Newman had to hit the deck because he thought the shots were coming from behind and to the right of him.  Gordon Arnold was behind the picket fence area when a guy flashed S.S. badge and got him to move out of the area.  He was in front of the fence, on the steps when he felt a bullet whizz past his ear.  He too hit the deck.  Lee Bowers witnessed sus guys driving around the parking area and reported two men behind the fence and a "flash of light or smoke or something which caused me to feel that something out of the ordinary had occurred there."  Ed Hoffman also stated that he saw two men behind the fence.  Emmett Hudson, in front of the knoll also stated, "You could tell the shot was coming from above and kind of behind."  Cheryl McKinnon on the knoll also said "Myself and dozens of others standing nearby turned in horror toward the back of the Grassy Knoll where it seemed the sounds had originated.  Puffs of white smoke still hung in the air in small patches."  Sam Holland on the triple underpass had a ringside seat and reported shots as well as smoke come from the trees.  After the shots, Holland and fellow railway workers rushed behind the picket fence to discover muddy footprints and cigarette stubs as well as muddy shoe marks on a car bumper.  Jean Hill, on the south side of Elm said she saw smoke at the corner of the fence area at the time of the head shot.  As mentioned in posts above, policeman Weitzman and Officer Smith met S.S. or officials on the knoll after the shooting, but none have ever been accounted for.  We can also look at the reports from Julia Mercer who witnessed the suspicious truck at the underpass earlier that morning, perhaps delivering a rifle to the knoll area.  Again, never accounted for.  Yarborough got a strong smell of gun-smoke just seconds after which was nowhere near the supposed lone assassin's 6th floor window.

[Joe Bauer]

Julia Ann Mercer's story has always intrigued me and I believe she was very credible.

Does anyone think that Mercer made up the detailed account she gave in an affidavit to the FBI?

She is stuck in traffic right behind a green truck that was stalled and pulled over half-way onto the curb close to the overpass and just below the grassy knoll.

At one point, she sees a younger slight build man with a beanie type cap and wearing a checkered shirt leave the passenger side of truck cab, walk to the back side of the truck, open a tool panel, and remove a carrying case which Mercer recognized as a rifle long gun case.

The young man then turns and carries the case up the grassy knoll ( at one point an end of the case sticks into the ground ) and disappears above.

Mercer never wavered on the details of her account. And it was just hours after her eyewitness experience with the truck and the men in it that she related it. No extended time memory loss there.

If the young man exiting the truck and pulling out a 36 inch or more long case from a side panel had to find a place to relieve himself perhaps he thought he could find a hidden spot to do this on top of the fenced in and tree shaded knoll?

But why the long carrying case? Maybe he felt he needed a long tool or a rifle to protect himself in case some pervert came out nowhere and thrust himself toward him while his pants were down?

Ridiculous I know...but so is the idea that this young man doing what Mercer saw him doing had no importance. 

 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

8 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:

Ben, I've always had the statements and sightings of witnesses make a north knoll shooter more than just a suggestion.  More like the grail for conspiracy.  The witnesses in front of the knoll heard and felt shots whizzing past their heads.  Zapruder stated a shot from over his shoulder.  Bill Newman had to hit the deck because he thought the shots were coming from behind and to the right of him.  Gordon Arnold was behind the picket fence area when a guy flashed S.S. badge and got him to move out of the area.  He was in front of the fence, on the steps when he felt a bullet whizz past his ear.  He too hit the deck.  Lee Bowers witnessed sus guys driving around the parking area and reported two men behind the fence and a "flash of light or smoke or something which caused me to feel that something out of the ordinary had occurred there."  Ed Hoffman also stated that he saw two men behind the fence.  Emmett Hudson, in front of the knoll also stated, "You could tell the shot was coming from above and kind of behind."  Cheryl McKinnon on the knoll also said "Myself and dozens of others standing nearby turned in horror toward the back of the Grassy Knoll where it seemed the sounds had originated.  Puffs of white smoke still hung in the air in small patches."  Sam Holland on the triple underpass had a ringside seat and reported shots as well as smoke come from the trees.  After the shots, Holland and fellow railway workers rushed behind the picket fence to discover muddy footprints and cigarette stubs as well as muddy shoe marks on a car bumper.  Jean Hill, on the south side of Elm said she saw smoke at the corner of the fence area at the time of the head shot.  As mentioned in posts above, policeman Weitzman and Officer Smith met S.S. or officials on the knoll after the shooting, but none have ever been accounted for.  We can also look at the reports from Julia Mercer who witnessed the suspicious truck at the underpass earlier that morning, perhaps delivering a rifle to the knoll area.  Again, never accounted for.  Yarborough got a strong smell of gun-smoke just seconds after which was nowhere near the supposed lone assassin's 6th floor window.

PM-

 

Well, you won't get any argument from me, but I have always placed greater credence in the smell of gunsmoke reports, of which they were dozens. 

Why? Well, sounds do echo. There is a large fence there. Also, the concave shape of the colonnade. 

In addition, the number of shots that day may be muddled by the use of silencers, or two shots which are heard as one shot. 

Earnest witnesses below the TSBD---some said the gunshots came from the Grassy Knoll, while other thought they came from above. 

In short, a jumble, although I tend to agree with you and your take. But LN'ers have grounds. 

But the smell of gunsmoke around the Grassy Knoll in the immediate aftermath of the shooting---that one is hard to dance around. Many who smelled the gunsmoke, such DPD'er Joe Smith, had tons of experience with firearms. Yarborough too.

I am fairly confident there was gunfire that day from the Grassy Knoll area, my guess from a Smith & Wesson snub-nose .38, which due to the short barrel, gives off a lot of muzzle flash and sound. But, obviously, is easily concealed. 

 

 

[Pete Mellor]

9 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

PM- Well, you won't get any argument from me, but I have always placed greater credence in the smell of gunsmoke reports, of which they were dozens. 

Why? Well, sounds do echo. There is a large fence there. Also, the concave shape of the colonnade. 

In addition, the number of shots that day may be muddled by the use of silencers, or two shots which are heard as one shot. 

Earnest witnesses below the TSBD---some said the gunshots came from the Grassy Knoll, while other thought they came from above. 

In short, a jumble, although I tend to agree with you and your take. But LN'ers have grounds. 

But the smell of gunsmoke around the Grassy Knoll in the immediate aftermath of the shooting---that one is hard to dance around. Many who smelled the gunsmoke, such DPD'er Joe Smith, had tons of experience with firearms. Yarborough too.

I am fairly confident there was gunfire that day from the Grassy Knoll area, my guess from a Smith & Wesson snub-nose .38, which due to the short barrel, gives off a lot of muzzle flash and sound. But, obviously, is easily concealed. 

B.C. Of course the accuracy of memory is only just one area of witness reliability that must be understood.  We must also be cognizant of the ability witnesses posses to accurately identify the source of a sound.  Rather than eyewitnesses, we also have ear witnesses, a field of study that has not received nearly as much attention.  However, the importance of such witnesses can not be underestimated for the question of the origins of each of the shots fired in Dealey Plaza.

The official interpretation of the origin of the shots, of course, remains that they were fired from above and to the left rear of the motorcade.  Hence, depending upon where a bystander was positioned the shots would have been heard from either the left or right but always from above.  Other theories. particularly those that include shots fired from the grassy knoll, factor in sound impulses as originating at ground level from either the left or right.  Unless, regardless of the theory, the witness was situated in a position in front of or behind the location of origin.  This would include such witnesses, for example, as Gordon Arnold who recalled a bullet past his left ear, or Abraham Zapruder who thought a shot emanated from behind and to his right, similar to Bill Newman for shots occurring from the grassy knoll and Howard Brennan and Amos Euins for shots fired from the Depository.  Witnesses are generally very adept at locating the source of a sound if it originated from the left or right of a person.  This is due to the fact that a person's ability to determine the direction of a sound is rooted in the time differential as the sound wave strikes first the ear closer to the source of the sound and then the more distant ear.  BUT, most importantly in the context of Dealey Plaza witnesses, the ability of a person to accurately distinguish sounds originating from above or below or from the front or the back is very poor.

[Benjamin Cole]

17 minutes ago, Pete Mellor said:

B.C. Of course the accuracy of memory is only just one area of witness reliability that must be understood.  We must also be cognizant of the ability witnesses posses to accurately identify the source of a sound.  Rather than eyewitnesses, we also have ear witnesses, a field of study that has not received nearly as much attention.  However, the importance of such witnesses can not be underestimated for the question of the origins of each of the shots fired in Dealey Plaza.

The official interpretation of the origin of the shots, of course, remains that they were fired from above and to the left rear of the motorcade.  Hence, depending upon where a bystander was positioned the shots would have been heard from either the left or right but always from above.  Other theories. particularly those that include shots fired from the grassy knoll, factor in sound impulses as originating at ground level from either the left or right.  Unless, regardless of the theory, the witness was situated in a position in front of or behind the location of origin.  This would include such witnesses, for example, as Gordon Arnold who recalled a bullet past his left ear, or Abraham Zapruder who thought a shot emanated from behind and to his right, similar to Bill Newman for shots occurring from the grassy knoll and Howard Brennan and Amos Euins for shots fired from the Depository.  Witnesses are generally very adept at locating the source of a sound if it originated from the left or right of a person.  This is due to the fact that a person's ability to determine the direction of a sound is rooted in the time differential as the sound wave strikes first the ear closer to the source of the sound and then the more distant ear.  BUT, most importantly in the context of Dealey Plaza witnesses, the ability of a person to accurately distinguish sounds originating from above or below or from the front or the back is very poor.

Interesting points. 

But in the end, we agree. They was gunfire that day in or around the Grassy Knoll. 

Someone flashed SS credentials there too. 

You would think the WC would have had an all-consuming, burning dread interest the SS credentials. 

Well, you would think.