The Killing Floor

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Joe Bauer said:

You would think an employee would not just drop his garbage on the floor or a box like that for someone else to clean up? If I am a boss and came upon trash just thrown like that I would make every effort to find the employee and reprimand him or her with a stern warning against doing it again.

 

I was thinking the same, but I guess it's one of those things no one ever explored.

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Mark Knight said:

Willaims was part of the crew laying plywood on the flooring on the 6th floor. Leaving his lunch residue on the 6th meant that he expected to deal with it when he returned to work, it would seem to me.

Could Dougherty have been a [the?] 6th floor shooter?

Could be he was going to do it upon his return.

About the shooter I'm not pointing to anyone.  I'm still reading the WC testimonies, a long way to go... I'm writing down my questions, but when it happens to be on topic here, I'll give it a go... 

[David Von Pein]

2 hours ago, Jean Paul Ceulemans said:

Now... I know nothing about 1960's work-place-ethics in Dallas... so forgive me if I'm way out here...

But Williams leaving/dropping his leftovers (chicken bone, bag, bottle) like he did... ?   

There's something I can not explain, I get that he wanted to join his colleagues, but why would he leave those leftovers like that ?  Unless it was not uncommon to do so (but for now, I find that a little hard to believe), not ?

Was he told to drop it all and get out ? We'll never know I guess...

 

Since you've touched on the subject of Bonnie Ray Williams and the fact that he decided (for whatever reason) to litter the sixth floor of the Book Depository with the remnants of his lunch on 11/22/63....I hope everyone here won't mind if I indulge in a little bit of comic relief on the topic of Bonnie Ray and his Nov. 22nd lunch feast....

My favorite part of Bonnie Ray Williams' Warren Commission session [seen here] has always been his testimony about the chicken-on-the-bone sandwich that he said he ate for lunch when he was up on the 6th floor on 11/22.

I can't help but chuckle whenever I run across that testimony. And so, just for fun, in the year 2010 (in this Usenet newsgroup posting) and again in 2016 (in this post at this EF forum), I decided to spread the mirth and merriment concerning Bonnie Ray's hard-to-swallow noontime meal in those two Internet messages linked above (and screen-captured below).

P.S. -- If Bonnie Ray Williams is still with us here on this Earth, I want him to know that I'm not making fun of him. I'm only snickering at his choice of November 22 luncheon entrees, which should have made every dentist in Dallas County jump for joy due to the increased business Bonnie Ray's bone-riddled poultry delicacy surely supplied them.

 

 

Edited October 18, 2022 by David Von Pein

[Guest]

It IS a real thing, he did not invent it : 

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/154107618469028012/

[David Von Pein]

7 minutes ago, Jean Paul Ceulemans said:

It IS a real thing, he did not invent it : 

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/154107618469028012/

Oh, yes, I know. But it's still an insane thing to want to eat.

And for dessert, how about a nice big piece of brick-and-mortar pie?! (A la mode, of course.)

😇

Edited October 18, 2022 by David Von Pein

[Larry Hancock]

Not sure why this sounds funny to you all, pretty standard fare down my way...if you were in a hurry you took a piece of fried chicken (often cold) and slapped some bread on  to hold things in place....just thought of it as a chicken sandwich.

[David Von Pein]

34 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:

Not sure why this sounds funny to you all, pretty standard fare down my way...if you were in a hurry you took a piece of fried chicken (often cold) and slapped some bread on  to hold things in place....just thought of it as a chicken sandwich.

And chomping into all those bones doesn't bother any of the southerners who eat such a sandwich?

My gosh, I couldn't stand it. (Not to mention all the dental bills!)

BTW, Joseph Ball of the WC [at 3 H 169] also seemed to think it was a bit strange to eat a sandwich with bones in it.

 

Edited October 18, 2022 by David Von Pein

[Pat Speer]

37 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

And chomping into all those bones doesn't bother any of the southerners who eat such a sandwich?

My gosh, I couldn't stand it. (Not to mention all the dental bills!)

BTW, Joseph Ball of the WC [at 3 H 169] also seemed to think it was a bit strange to eat a sandwich with bones in it.

 

Oh come on. Have you ever ordered a pancake sandwich? Most of the time it just means that sausage and/or bacon comes with the pancake. The same is true for a chicken sandwich. A lot of soul food or southern food restaurants sell "chicken sandwiches" where you get two slices of bread with a piece of chicken. I have ordered this myself at soul food restaurants on the west coast. It's a thing.

And no, no one at these restaurants eats the chicken whole with the bone inside. They eat it like everyone else eats fried chicken. With their fingers. And this is important because there is no way Williams' prints were not all over his pop bottle. And the DPD's failure to acknowledge this, or to send the bottle to DC for fingerprinting by the FBI is a clear indication they were actively concealing evidence they could not pin on Oswald. 

So WHO KNOWS what else they suppressed, or lied about? 

Not the WC...which failed to follow up on this, as usual...

 

[David Von Pein]

21 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

Oh come on. Have you ever ordered a pancake sandwich? Most of the time it just means that sausage and/or bacon comes with the pancake. The same is true for a chicken sandwich.

Except for the fact that sausage and bacon don't have any bones in them. So your examples are not really fair comparisons to a bone-in chicken "sandwich".

Putting a piece of bone-in chicken between two pieces of bread is ludicrous (in the south or anywhere else). What's the point of even doing that when nobody who isn't insane is going to pick it up and eat it as a "sandwich" anyway? It's just silly.

But, as they say, variety is the spice of life (and sandwiches).

[Michael Griffith]

On 10/13/2022 at 2:27 PM, James DiEugenio said:

Every once in while, Kennedys and King gets something really remarkable from our readers.  This one is a video representation by Rich Negrete. 

To my knowledge, its his first film--and I hope its not his last.  Its a kind of visual adaptation of The GIrl on the Stairs, but it actually goes beyond that book.

Considering its his first film, its moderately skillful for an amateur production. Plus its  clear, simple and straightforward in its presentation. As anyone can see, it took a lot of work to do something like this, in both collection and assembly.

Rich Negrete deserves a round of applause. 

https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/the-killing-floor

This is an excellent visual summary of the evidence that Oswald was not on the sixth floor during the shooting. I've added a link to it on my JFK site. The video also gives us more reasons to suspect that Detective Leavelle was guilty of foul play, which in turn raises the possibility that he played a deliberate role in Oswald's death.

Edited October 18, 2022 by Michael Griffith

[Benjamin Cole]

9 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

Truly said he looked up the shaft and saw that the elevators were stopped on an upper floor. He thought the fifth. He and Baker then ran up the staircase nearby, where they saw Oswald in a matter of seconds. 

 

Truly said he looked up the shaft and saw that the elevators were stopped on an upper floor. He thought the fifth. He and Baker then ran up the staircase nearby, where they saw Oswald in a matter of seconds. ---PS

Again, not to belabor a point, is an "upper floor" any floor aside from the first floor? 

That is, in a modern office building, when you are on the ground floor, you can sometimes tell where is the elevator cab, by an indicator. 

But we are talking about old freight elevators in an old multi-story warehouse property. Money for amenities was limited.

So...if you are standing where Truly was, and you look at the elevators, can you tell where are the elevator cabs? Or...you just know they are not down on the first floor? 

So....is it not possible that LHO was getting off at the second floor, while Truly and Baker were on the ground floor? 

 

[Larry Hancock]

Just a little bit judgemental and insulting there David, trust us to have enough sense to eat around the bones (which may be minimal depending on how the chicken was cut) and if you like fried chicken you may like it enough to put some bread on it and eat it as a sandwich. 

Not to mention that there was a world with chicken in it before chicken nuggets or heaven forbid boneless hot wings.

Actually I've had both fowl in fish in China in banquets and neither had the bones removed, in fact the chicken was apparently chopped up with a cleaver bones and all.  Challenging to eat but locally seen as a preferred dish. 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Larry Hancock

[Matt Allison]

5 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

So...if you are standing where Truly was, and you look at the elevators, can you tell where are the elevator cabs? Or...you just know they are not down on the first floor? 

Freight elevator, so no way to tell exactly where the car is without physically maneuvering into the shaft to see its location.

[Benjamin Cole]

3 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:

Just a little bit judgemental and insulting there David, trust us to have enough sense to eat around the bones (which may be minimal depending on how the chicken was cut) and if you like fried chicken you may like it enough to put some bread on it and eat it as a sandwich. 

Not to mention that there was a world with chicken in it before chicken nuggets or heaven forbid boneless hot wings.

Actually I've had both fowl in fish in China in banquets and neither had the bones removed, in fact the chicken was apparently chopped up with a cleaver bones and all.  Challenging to eat but locally seen as a preferred dish. 

LH--

Yes, as a 10-year resident of Thailand, I have learned the hard way that bones are often present in fish and fowl. And pork too! 

People forget eating styles of 50-60 years ago.

Sheesh, those of us who are old enough can tell you of parents who killed their own chickens for eating.

Now, a woman taking a cleaver to the neck of chicken might strike some as backwards---but back then, not so, and necessary to hold down expenses. 

[Pat Speer]

11 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:

Just a little bit judgemental and insulting there David, trust us to have enough sense to eat around the bones (which may be minimal depending on how the chicken was cut) and if you like fried chicken you may like it enough to put some bread on it and eat it as a sandwich. 

Not to mention that there was a world with chicken in it before chicken nuggets or heaven forbid boneless hot wings.

Actually I've had both fowl in fish in China in banquets and neither had the bones removed, in fact the chicken was apparently chopped up with a cleaver bones and all.  Challenging to eat but locally seen as a preferred dish. 

I've had chopped chicken with the bones inside as well. I think it was Jamaican jerk chicken. But you don't eat the bones. You spit it out into your napkin and put it on the plate. If you think about it it's not all that different from spitting out watermelon seeds, sunflower seed shells, or the shells one inevitably comes across in a bucket of popcorn. Or even gristle from a steak...

Edited October 19, 2022 by Pat Speer