Larry Hancock Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 When Oswald was first looking for jobs in Dallas he focused on making use of his Russian skills for translation. Oswald obtained the name of two Russian speaking petroleum geologists in the Fort Forth area and he himself approached the elder Gregory (who taught Russian classes at a local Fort Worth library), he was impressed with Oswald's language ability and gave him a written recommendation. The association developed further with the elder Gregory making introductions for Oswald in the area Russian community and Gregory's son taking Russian language lessons from Marina... For details on Lee and Marina's earliest months in the US you should find this helpful: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=56967#relPageId=6&search="the_CPUSA" and oswald Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 15 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said: Oswald obtained the name of two Russian speaking petroleum geologists in the Fort Forth area and he himself approached the elder Gregory Larry, On more than one occasion, I have been struck by the fact that LHO and Marina latched on to this particular profession when they got back from Russia. The Gregorys, George DeMoherenschildt, George Bouhe... I think this is very telling, but I don't know why. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Hancock Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 I think its more a matter of the Russian language and experience setting the context....certainly for Marina but for Lee as well; he kept himself immersed in the language though his subscriptions to Russian publications and reading material in Russian. And in Fort Worth in 1962 there were not large Russian speaking communities much less individuals speaking Russian, that came from either emigres or from individuals/professionals whose work or particular interests led them to acquire some familiarity with the language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cory Santos Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 8 hours ago, David Von Pein said: Oh for Pete sake, just because somebody (like myself, for example) thinks Lee Oswald was a lefty, a loser, and a lone assassin doesn't mean that the person believing those things is a member of the "Deep State". It’s ok David, no one here thinks your a member of the “deep state” lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Down Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 5 hours ago, Larry Hancock said: When Oswald was first looking for jobs in Dallas he focused on making use of his Russian skills for translation. Oswald obtained the name of two Russian speaking petroleum geologists in the Fort Forth area and he himself approached the elder Gregory (who taught Russian classes at a local Fort Worth library), he was impressed with Oswald's language ability and gave him a written recommendation. What was the name of the other russian speaking petroleum geologist in the Forth Worth area that Oswald got? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Hancock Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 No idea, I was just referring to the information in the link I cited and I don't think it gives a name... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Down Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 47 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said: No idea, I was just referring to the information in the link I cited and I don't think it gives a name... Oh ok. The reason I asked was because of Mrs Bates FBI reports and WC testimony (the woman who typed up Oswalds notes in June 1962). She says that Oswald told her that within days of LHOs arrival in the U.S., some man, a Fort Worth engineer who could speak russian, wanted to have LHOs notes turned into a book. And in response to this, Oswald showed this man the notes he had made while in Russia. Mrs Bates was unsure of the name of this man but told the Secret Service on Dec 2nd 1963 that it could be Peter Gregory (See page 10 of this document: https://catalog.archives.gov/id/7460357 ). LHO was indeed in touch with Peter Gregory in this time frame. However when the WC asked Peter Gregory if he had talked with Oswald about writing a book, Gregory denied it. I was hoping to fit this in with the Donald Deneselya claim of receiving contact reports in the Summer of 1962 from the New York field office. I always thought there was just one russian speaking Forth Worth petroleum engineer that Oswald knew in this time frame and thus this would be Peter Gregory. But the mention of a possible second russian speaking petroleum engineer in Oswalds life in this time frame caught my eye. It could just be a misstatement in that document and the document was referring to GDM, who apparently did not actually come into LHOs life until Sept 1962. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Hancock Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 I do recall this myself Gerry, however since Oswald did contact Gregory and got the recommendation from him ..perhaps he had no need to contact the second Russian speaker. I wondered the same thing about the remarks from the typist, but after seeing what Gregory now appears to be saying I'm also open to that fact that his WC denial may have been his distancing himself a bit? Given his later politics the idea of a first person anti-Soviet book might have appealed to him at the time. Also with what appears to be coming out in his book I'm just not sure how much I trust that he told the full story of he and his son's association with Le and Marina then, and I'm definitely skeptical about what he is saying now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Down Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 20 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said: I do recall this myself Gerry, however since Oswald did contact Gregory and got the recommendation from him ..perhaps he had no need to contact the second Russian speaker. I wondered the same thing about the remarks from the typist, but after seeing what Gregory now appears to be saying I'm also open to that fact that his WC denial may have been his distancing himself a bit? Given his later politics the idea of a first person anti-Soviet book might have appealed to him at the time. Also with what appears to be coming out in his book I'm just not sure how much I trust that he told the full story of he and his son's association with Le and Marina then, and I'm definitely skeptical about what he is saying now. And J. Walton Moore hung around with quiet a few petroleum engineers. It wouldn't be out of the question that Peter Gregory and J. Walton Moore knew each other. And when LHO showed Peter his russian manuscript, Peter thought that maybe J. Walton Moore would be interested in this kind of stuff. And so Peter secretly gave a copy of the manuscript to J. Walton Moore which eventually ended up on Donald Deneselya desk as a "contact report". But then something must have happened. LHO must have stopped providing Peter material for some reason. And this is when J. Walton Moore tried a different tack - get GDM to become friends with LHO and get more info from him regarding his time in Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Hancock Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 I think that would be quite reasonable Gerry, good call. I had started to bring up the point that any really visible Russian speaking professional in the ara (such as someone who taught classes at the Fort Worth library) could very likely have been tagged as a potential source by CIA Domestic Ops, or the FBI. That would really be SOP because the goal was always to have as many sources out there in the community as possible - to spin the broadest possible net. Pure speculation on my part but if either Gregory Sr. or Jr did something to annoy Lee Oswald - such as become too friendly with Marina - he might have pulled back from then rather than vice versa, causing a turn to GDM to prospect for Oswald in the White Russian community and attempt a contact. I suspect that GDM would have been much more diplomatic about the approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Down Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 11 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said: I think that would be quite reasonable Gerry, good call. I had started to bring up the point that any really visible Russian speaking professional in the ara (such as someone who taught classes at the Fort Worth library) could very likely have been tagged as a potential source by CIA Domestic Ops, or the FBI. That would really be SOP because the goal was always to have as many sources out there in the community as possible - to spin the broadest possible net. Pure speculation on my part but if either Gregory Sr. or Jr did something to annoy Lee Oswald - such as become too friendly with Marina - he might have pulled back from then rather than vice versa, causing a turn to GDM to prospect for Oswald in the White Russian community and attempt a contact. I suspect that GDM would have been much more diplomatic about the approach. Maybe LHO was starting to become suspicious of Peter from an early date. LHO made sure to take the typewriter ribbons from Mrs Bates. It was like he was worried she might steal his stuff, maybe he thought the same of Peter and broke it off. Something seems to have happened. One minute LHO is determined to write a book so much so that he goes to a typist and then all of a sudden he shelves the project, seemingly to never to return to it again. There might be something hidden in the various WC testimonies that reveal what it might have been. Like you suggest, maybe LHO didn't like bringing the young Paul into his and Marinas life in case Paul would steal Marina and this caused LHO to cease the project with Peter. Though a point against this theory seems to be that Paul is suggesting he was in to the Oswald's life for 4 months. Maybe LHO just couldn't shift Paul out of their lives any sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Hancock Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 With Sr. making introductions within the Fort Worth Russian community perhaps it was hard to untangle from him, but if Lee got tired of Marina given Russian lessons to Jr. and in turn became disenchanted with the White Russian communities politics - and its preference for Marina, he might just have pulled the plug entirely. That would have left him open to someone who showed more interest in him and was of a more liberal political orientation. While Oswald was a contrarian and could be obnoxious to people he felt were dismissive or had opposing political views he could also be quite engaging with individuals and families who he found accepting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Down Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 7 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said: With Sr. making introductions within the Fort Worth Russian community perhaps it was hard to untangle from him, but if Lee got tired of Marina given Russian lessons to Jr. and in turn became disenchanted with the White Russian communities politics - and its preference for Marina, he might just have pulled the plug entirely. That would have left him open to someone who showed more interest in him and was of a more liberal political orientation. While Oswald was a contrarian and could be obnoxious to people he felt were dismissive or had opposing political views he could also be quite engaging with individuals and families who he found accepting. That sounds like it. Oswald would have realized by about July that he wanted to keep a healthy distance between him and Marina and the White Russian community and so the last thing he would want would be to enter into a book deal of sorts with one of them. GDM was different. GDMs politics do seem to have been more left wing than the other white Russians. Plus GDM was a very likeable guy by all accounts, and so could easily gain LHOs confidence and trust. And GDM was much older than Marina, old enough to be her dad and so less of a threat in that sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Hancock Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 Another element of the GDM contact is that he involved his whole family with Lee and Marina. It appears that he engaged in a lot of geopolitical talk with Oswald (they did have international experiences in common) and let his wife do things like take Marina to the dentist or for medical treatment while they even stayed with kids for a time (he describes his son as far more conservative than himself; apparently his son did not get along nearly a well with Lee). When he visited the Oswald's it was often with his wife. In Russia Oswald had demonstrated that he could actually make friends with individuals he trusted but then argue issues with them without breaking things off, that appears to have been true with GDM who would challenge him but show some respect for Oswald's experience and views - which were pretty sophisticated for someone who was self taught on such things. The examples of Oswald's writings circa 63 stand up pretty well compared with most college undergraduates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted October 18, 2022 Author Share Posted October 18, 2022 11 hours ago, Larry Hancock said: Sandy is taking this the right direction, I've recently been revisiting Oswald in 62/63 and this connection among others has been of real interest, even to how Oswald connected to Gregory in the first place (based on Oswald's own initiative and his interest in getting a job as a translator) - by the way, Gregory tested Oswald's Russian skills and even wrote him a letter of recommendation. Very little contemporary information from 1962 or the testimony taken immediately after the assassination supports what appears to be in the book - sounds more like an old guy profiting by taking a sensational story to a publisher or just getting linked up with an editor who shaped it that way....of course sensation is the way to get publishers and books these days. Its even possible that Oswald pushed back on the short "friendships" over basics disagreements on politics or even because one of the two were "hitting" on Marina, something Oswald had been sensitive to even in Russia. There certainly are indications that Marina was a flirt and that some of the reported fights with Lee may have been about more than smoking or house cleaning. Probably won't find that in the book though... I do encourage everyone to really dig into the transcripts as Sandy has done and I think you will find they really undermine the factual and historical thrust of this new book. LH--- I am always happy to have the circumspect, deeply experienced Larry Hancock weigh in. Yes, Gregory appears not only to have divined the truth about the JFKA in 11/22 while watching TV...but then talked funny to the WC, given his exceptional insights. Egads. I can't make heads or tails of this....except who financed this book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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