The Simple, Simple Explanation of Two Gunman on 11/22

[Pat Speer]

2 hours ago, Norman T. Field said:

I also recall that the audio recording of LHO's statement "I'm just a patsy" was run thru PSE software, which indicated it was a truthful statement. 

No, I don't have any cites, I read this decades ago. 

 

This is true. It is the subject matter of The Assassination tapes by George O'Toole, as I recall. The problem is PSE software is like a lie detector. It is suggestive, but not admissible in a court of law or anything like that. NAA tests for gsr are admissible. 

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

The lapel flip at Z224 has been mentioned in this thread. There have been lapel-flip-tests done (mentioned on this forum) that showed that a flip (due to a slug passing throo a coat near a lapel) at Z224 is in accord with Oswald's magic bullet being much earlier, eg at say Z218.

 

And we know that Oswald's first shot was at (pseudo) Z103 (Donahue i think) or (pseudo) Z113 (myself) or (pseudo) Z123 (reaction calculations by investigators)(mentioned on this forum). 

[Benjamin Cole]

8 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

His hands had plenty of gsr, which indicates he did not wash his hands or face after the Tippit shooting. So realistically the only place he could have washed his hands was at the rooming house. Well, the housekeeper said he did no such thing.

So the NAA tests of the paraffin cheek cast are suggestive of Oswald's innocence regarding Kennedy, but not conclusive. 

Well....

Not so clear.  

1. LHO could have fashioned a homemade mask to cover his exposed cheek while shooting. Certainly the materials were present (tape and paper), and I suspect LHO was an intel asset, and a smart guy.

2. LHO's landlady testified she was glued to the TV when LHO rushed in and out. If he stopped for a minute to wash off his flushed sweaty face face, she may not have noticed. 

3. If LHO washed his face (which had already sweated a bit) in the Texas Theater, that may not remove all traces of GSR from his hands. It would depend if he also washed his hands. 

4. If LHO fired four times a revolver, he would have gotten a heavy dose of GSR on his hands. A quick wash might not remove all traces. 

I would be delighted if some evidence emerged that made clear where was LHO when shots were fired, and if he indeed fired weapons that day. 

We just don't know. 

I have read through most of your excellent research on your website. 

In 4f you do not address the sweaty-face problem as a reason for a false negative, the possibility  LHO washed his face, or the possibility LHO simply fashioned a mask while shooting in the TSBD, a luxury he did not have when gunning down Tippit. 

(My pet theory is LHO is innocent of shooting JFK, and shot to intentionally miss, a replay of the Walker shooting. I cannot prove my theory, but it fits a lot of what we know. As for Tippit, I just don't know. LHO was carrying a gun when arrested, but the evidence is not solid). 

 

Edited November 25, 2022 by Benjamin Cole

[Pat Speer]

5 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Well....

Not so clear.  

1. LHO could have fashioned a homemade mask to cover his exposed cheek while shooting. Certainly the materials were present (tape and paper), and I suspect LHO was an intel asset, and a smart guy.

2. LHO's landlady testified she was glued to the TV when LHO rushed in and out. If he stopped for a minute to wash off his flushed sweaty face face, she may not have noticed. 

3. If LHO washed his face (which had already sweated a bit) in the Texas Theater, that may not remove all traces of GSR from his hands. It would depend if he also washed his hands. 

4. If LHO fired four times a revolver, he would have gotten a heavy dose of GSR on his hands. A quick wash might not remove all traces. 

I would be delighted if some evidence emerged that made clear where was LHO when shots were fired, and if he indeed fired weapons that day. 

We just don't know. 

I have read through most of your excellent research on your website. 

In 4f you do not address the sweaty-face problem as a reason for a false negative, the possibility  LHO washed his face, or the possibility LHO simply fashioned a mask while shooting in the TSBD, a luxury he did not have when gunning down Tippit. 

(My pet theory is LHO is innocent of shooting JFK, and shot to intentionally miss, a replay of the Walker shooting. I cannot prove my theory, but it fits a lot of what we know. As for Tippit, I just don't know. LHO was carrying a gun when arrested, but the evidence is not solid). 

 

The NAA evidence is not conclusive, but it is suggestive. 

It's possible he fired the rifle, and that he either fooled the tests, or just got lucky. But the NAA results of the cheek casts--which are admissible in court--were negative for antimony. And that may have helped sway a jury. 

Let's look at the O.J. case for comparison. There, a suspect (O.J.) was allowed to try on dried leather gloves over plastic gloves, and make out that the gloves didn't fit. And this helped sway a jury. 

Now consider that in this case a widely accepted scientific analysis was done on the "gloves" and proved they did not fit. 

It is suggestive, but not conclusive. 

[Benjamin Cole]

58 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

The NAA evidence is not conclusive, but it is suggestive. 

It's possible he fired the rifle, and that he either fooled the tests, or just got lucky. But the NAA results of the cheek casts--which are admissible in court--were negative for antimony. And that may have helped sway a jury. 

Let's look at the O.J. case for comparison. There, a suspect (O.J.) was allowed to try on dried leather gloves over plastic gloves, and make out that the gloves didn't fit. And this helped sway a jury. 

Now consider that in this case a widely accepted scientific analysis was done on the "gloves" and proved they did not fit. 

It is suggestive, but not conclusive. 

Funny you mention the OJ case.

My thought on that was OJ was guilty, but that the LAPD planted the glove (originally found at the murder scene) on his property.

I mean, really, was even OJ so stupid to leave one glove at the scene of the double murder and one glove at his house? Well, possibly.

Or possibly the LAPD enhanced the evidence. 

In many ways, I think authorities in the JFKA enhanced the evidence against LHO. 

This alone does not truly exonerate LHO, though it might legally exonerate LHO, just as crappy chains of evidence might. 

But I am more interested in what really happened on 11/22, not just LHO's strictly defined legal guilt or innocence. 

[Michael Griffith]

16 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

This is true. It is the subject matter of The Assassination tapes by George O'Toole, as I recall. The problem is PSE software is like a lie detector. It is suggestive, but not admissible in a court of law or anything like that. NAA tests for gsr are admissible. 

Actually 10 or 11 states allow PSE lie detector tests to be admitted as evidence in court. One advantage of the PSE (aka VSA) is that it can be administered without the person's knowledge. 

[Norman T. Field]

9 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

The NAA evidence is not conclusive, but it is suggestive. 

It's possible he fired the rifle, and that he either fooled the tests, or just got lucky. But the NAA results of the cheek casts--which are admissible in court--were negative for antimony. And that may have helped sway a jury. 

Let's look at the O.J. case for comparison. There, a suspect (O.J.) was allowed to try on dried leather gloves over plastic gloves, and make out that the gloves didn't fit. And this helped sway a jury. 

Now consider that in this case a widely accepted scientific analysis was done on the "gloves" and proved they did not fit. 

It is suggestive, but not conclusive. 

According to a book written by OJ's agent, 'How I Helped OJ Get Away With Murder'; while in prison autographing footballs to pay his legal fees, OJ mentioned to his agent that when he stopped taking his arthritis medication his hands swelled way up. The agent looked at him with a stunned expression and said, "say that again". 

 

 

[Pat Speer]

5 hours ago, Michael Griffith said:

Actually 10 or 11 states allow PSE lie detector tests to be admitted as evidence in court. One advantage of the PSE (aka VSA) is that it can be administered without the person's knowledge. 

Huh... I remember looking into this after reading O'Toole's book and coming away with the tests not being admissible, much as a standard lie detector test. Perhaps the laws have changed. I remember reading a book on forensics that bemoaned certain rulings that allowed individual judges discretion over what constituted "science" and what constituted an "expert". Perhaps there has been an erosion on the acceptability of PSE in court. 

But, even so, is there precedent in that the tests were performed on recordings? I mean, have courts accepted PSE performed on recordings of a suspect and not the suspect himself as evidence? 

If so, I probably should add this to my website. 

[Benjamin Cole]

I think Sam Ervin had it right:

"Polygraph tests are 20th-century witchcraft." 

I wish we did have a true lie detector. 

Unfortunately, some people are more comfortable lying than telling the truth. Then what?