Stavis Ellis HSCA Testimony

[Gerry Down]

Stavis Ellis gave an interview to the HSCA which they then used in their report:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=84#relPageId=27

Does anyone know where this HSCA interview can be got? The MFF website seems to be quiet limited in what it has on Stavis Ellis:

https://www.maryferrell.org/php/marysdb.php?id=3586&search=stavis ellis hsca

[Pat Speer]

3 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

Stavis Ellis gave an interview to the HSCA which they then used in their report:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=84#relPageId=27

Does anyone know where this HSCA interview can be got? The MFF website seems to be quiet limited in what it has on Stavis Ellis:

https://www.maryferrell.org/php/marysdb.php?id=3586&search=stavis ellis hsca

From patspeer.com, Chapter 6:

 

Stavis Ellis rode one of the motorcycle officers out in front of the lead car. (4-21-71? interview of Ellis by "Whitney," someone working for researcher Fred Newcombe, as presented by Larry Rivera and Jim Fetzer on the Veterans Today website, 4-3-14)(When asked if he saw any wounds) "No, I didn't. I didn't get that close...I didn't know how bad he was hit until my man Chaney came up there and said he--no chance, he ain't got no chance but let's go. He said his head was just--well, I didn't really know for sure until we got to the hospital. There wasn't any chance for him." (When asked if the limo stopped) "Well no it didn’t stop, it almost stopped. If you’ve ever ridden a motor, you know if you go so slow, your motor will want to lean to one side, you have to put your foot down and balance it, but we were going so slow, that’s what was happening we were having to kick our foot down, a very slow pace, this was, after the first shot was fired, we were – we cut the speed, the Secret Service cut the speed, on the convoy." (When asked how long) "Well, it was just momentarily, it never did stop, it almost stopped, it got so slow, we were just barely moving – and then they hollered Go Go Go! Lets go. Get him to the hospital as quick as you can!" (HSCA record 180-10109-10154, the notes of HSCA investigator Jack Moriarty's 8-4-78 interview of Ellis, as published on the website of Denis Morrisette) "I was 100 to 125 feet in front of JFK's cars--alongside the first car. I'd just started down the hill. The first one sounded like--I'd looked back to signal the (?) to open when it came and I saw the debris come up from the ground at a nearby curb. I took it as a fragment grenade. (He then recalls seeing some family members in the crowd.) JFK also turned and looked around--looked right over his shoulder. The second shot hit him and the third blew his head up. Chaney came up and told me JFK was hit." (The report on Moriarty's 8-4-78 interview of Ellis, as transcribed on 8-23-78, provided online by Malcolm Blunt on the website of Bart Kamp) "Ellis places himself some one hundred to one hundred twenty-five feet in front of JFK's limousine, alongside the first vehicle, when the first report sounded. He remembers they had started down the hill on Elm Street and were preparing for the different tempo. He turned to give the signal for increased speed and more spacing, as the first shot was fired. He knew some type of weapon had been discharged inasmuch as he saw the debris scatter from the edge of the curb. His first impression was that of a fragment grenade. He looked right at JFK, who had turned and looked over his right shoulder. As the President turned back, the Governor started to turn the same way but the next shot was fired and the President seemed to slouch down and Connally flinched. The third shot blew the President's head up." (HSCA Vol. XII, p.23 “On August 5, 1978, the committee received information from former Dallas policeman Stavis Ellis that Ellis had also seen a missile hit the ground in the area of the motorcade… Ellis said he rode on a motorcycle alongside the first car…approximately 100 to 125 feet in front of the car carrying President Kennedy. Ellis said that just as he started down the hill of Elm Street, he looked back toward President Kennedy’s car and saw debris come up from the ground at a nearby curb. Ellis thought it was a fragment grenade. Ellis also said that President Kennedy turned around and looked over his shoulder. The second shot then hit him, and the third shot “blew his head up.” (The Kennedy Assassination Tapes, 1979) Officer A “I was about halfway down the hill on Elm toward the triple underpass, going very slowly...when the first shot was fired, I was looking directly at the President, and I saw the concrete burst into a cloud of dust when the bullet hit the curb. I noticed, too, that with the shot, some people started running in every direction, while several people hit the ground…Then while looking back at the President, I heard the second shot. The President became rigid and grabbed his neck. It also seemed like the limousine stopped or almost stopped, and agents from the following car started running toward the President’s limousine. The third shot hit the President in the head.” (Early 90's? interview with Denis Morrissette, as posted on youtube) (on the number of shots) "There were three shots." (Later, in Part 2, on the first shot ) "It either missed him altogether or it went through him and then went into the windshield and the street." (Later, when asked which shot this was.) "It would have been the first bullet... The one that hit the curb was the first bullet. And there was one more. It went through the President's back and down into Governor Connally's leg. The third one hit him in the head. Y'know where it went. It didn't go anyplace but right into his head, right in the rear of his head there. The only one that could have gone into the street would have been that first one. It either missed him altogether or maybe just barely nicked his neck or something. It went through the windshield and into the concrete over there. I still stand by that, because that's the way I saw it." (Later) "There were three shots and they all came from the rear." (No More Silence p.142-l53, published 1998) “Just as I turned around, then the first shot went off. It hit back there…I could see where the shot came into the south side of the curb. It looked like it hit concrete or grass there in just a flash, and a bunch of junk flew up like a white or gray color dust or smoke coming out of the concrete… I thought there had been some people hit back there as people started falling. I thought either some crank had thrown a big “Baby John” firecracker and scared them causing them to jump down or else a fragmentation grenade had hit all those people. In any case they went down! Actually I think they threw themselves down in anticipation of another shot. As soon as I saw that, I turned around and rode up beside the chief’s car and BANG!...BANG!, two more shots went off, three shots in all!” (11-18-16 interview of William and Gayle Newman at the JFK Lancer Conference in Dallas) (On "Uncle Steve's" whereabouts when the shots rang out.) "Actually, he was on the other side of the triple underpass when the shots rang out." Analysis: Ellis is a poster child for Selective Attribution Syndrome. Conspiracy theorists and single-assassin theorists alike love to use his comments about seeing something hit the curb as evidence for a first shot miss. But they should read on. He says that as this happened people began running everywhere. That they began falling... He is therefore describing the head shot. What he saw hit the curb then was quite possibly the skull fragment observed flying through the air by Charles Brehm and later found in the street by Harry Holmes and A.D. McCurley. This conclusion is further supported by Ellis' statements to Morrissette, moreover. There, he made clear that 1) he believed the bullet striking the windshield was the same bullet that struck the street, and 2) he had come to conclude the first shot hit the street because he was under the impression the bullet striking the skull did not exit. If this is so, and Ellis had mis-remembered the head shot as the first shot, well, then, his description of Kennedy reaching for his neck and the third shot striking the President in the head would appear to be more an assertion of what he believes happened, then what he saw happen. Sure enough, in Ellis’s statements to Larry Sneed in No More Silence, he admits he turned back around before the second shot was fired and therefore could not have seen what he is purported to have seen in Bowles’ book. His throwing in the “Bang Bang” at the end was probably poetic license but possibly a reflection that he did indeed hear one or two shots after the head shot. In any event, his recollections aren't particularly credible. To make matters worse, the Bell and Daniel films prove Ellis was nowhere near the lead car at the time of the shooting. Heard no early shots. One or more shots possibly after the head shot.

Edited December 10, 2022 by Pat Speer

[Guest]

That pretty much covers it 😃

Perhaps a tip, well this is what I do regularly in trying to find something, run a Google search as follows below, works like a charm for me.  Also for other websites of course.   

And as the search function on the EF forum often doesn't work I do ithe same with Google and  that goes fine.

 

Edited December 15, 2022 by Jean Paul Ceulemans
Pict/doc removed to save attachment space

[Benjamin Cole]

28 minutes ago, Jean Paul Ceulemans said:

That pretty much covers it 😃

Perhaps a tip, well this is what I do regularly in trying to find something, run a Google search as follows below, works like a charm for me.  Also for other websites of course.   

And as the search function on the EF forum often doesn't work I do ithe same with Google and  that goes fine.

Nice tip. Pat Speer has put forth a formidable body of research. 

[Gerry Down]

2 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

From patspeer.com, Chapter 6:

 

Stavis Ellis rode one of the motorcycle officers out in front of the lead car. (4-21-71? interview of Ellis by "Whitney," someone working for researcher Fred Newcombe, as presented by Larry Rivera and Jim Fetzer on the Veterans Today website, 4-3-14)(When asked if he saw any wounds) "No, I didn't. I didn't get that close...I didn't know how bad he was hit until my man Chaney came up there and said he--no chance, he ain't got no chance but let's go. He said his head was just--well, I didn't really know for sure until we got to the hospital. There wasn't any chance for him." (When asked if the limo stopped) "Well no it didn’t stop, it almost stopped. If you’ve ever ridden a motor, you know if you go so slow, your motor will want to lean to one side, you have to put your foot down and balance it, but we were going so slow, that’s what was happening we were having to kick our foot down, a very slow pace, this was, after the first shot was fired, we were – we cut the speed, the Secret Service cut the speed, on the convoy." (When asked how long) "Well, it was just momentarily, it never did stop, it almost stopped, it got so slow, we were just barely moving – and then they hollered Go Go Go! Lets go. Get him to the hospital as quick as you can!" (HSCA record 180-10109-10154, the notes of HSCA investigator Jack Moriarty's 8-4-78 interview of Ellis, as published on the website of Denis Morrisette) "I was 100 to 125 feet in front of JFK's cars--alongside the first car. I'd just started down the hill. The first one sounded like--I'd looked back to signal the (?) to open when it came and I saw the debris come up from the ground at a nearby curb. I took it as a fragment grenade. (He then recalls seeing some family members in the crowd.) JFK also turned and looked around--looked right over his shoulder. The second shot hit him and the third blew his head up. Chaney came up and told me JFK was hit." (The report on Moriarty's 8-4-78 interview of Ellis, as transcribed on 8-23-78, provided online by Malcolm Blunt on the website of Bart Kamp) "Ellis places himself some one hundred to one hundred twenty-five feet in front of JFK's limousine, alongside the first vehicle, when the first report sounded. He remembers they had started down the hill on Elm Street and were preparing for the different tempo. He turned to give the signal for increased speed and more spacing, as the first shot was fired. He knew some type of weapon had been discharged inasmuch as he saw the debris scatter from the edge of the curb. His first impression was that of a fragment grenade. He looked right at JFK, who had turned and looked over his right shoulder. As the President turned back, the Governor started to turn the same way but the next shot was fired and the President seemed to slouch down and Connally flinched. The third shot blew the President's head up." (HSCA Vol. XII, p.23 “On August 5, 1978, the committee received information from former Dallas policeman Stavis Ellis that Ellis had also seen a missile hit the ground in the area of the motorcade… Ellis said he rode on a motorcycle alongside the first car…approximately 100 to 125 feet in front of the car carrying President Kennedy. Ellis said that just as he started down the hill of Elm Street, he looked back toward President Kennedy’s car and saw debris come up from the ground at a nearby curb. Ellis thought it was a fragment grenade. Ellis also said that President Kennedy turned around and looked over his shoulder. The second shot then hit him, and the third shot “blew his head up.” (The Kennedy Assassination Tapes, 1979) Officer A “I was about halfway down the hill on Elm toward the triple underpass, going very slowly...when the first shot was fired, I was looking directly at the President, and I saw the concrete burst into a cloud of dust when the bullet hit the curb. I noticed, too, that with the shot, some people started running in every direction, while several people hit the ground…Then while looking back at the President, I heard the second shot. The President became rigid and grabbed his neck. It also seemed like the limousine stopped or almost stopped, and agents from the following car started running toward the President’s limousine. The third shot hit the President in the head.” (Early 90's? interview with Denis Morrissette, as posted on youtube) (on the number of shots) "There were three shots." (Later, in Part 2, on the first shot ) "It either missed him altogether or it went through him and then went into the windshield and the street." (Later, when asked which shot this was.) "It would have been the first bullet... The one that hit the curb was the first bullet. And there was one more. It went through the President's back and down into Governor Connally's leg. The third one hit him in the head. Y'know where it went. It didn't go anyplace but right into his head, right in the rear of his head there. The only one that could have gone into the street would have been that first one. It either missed him altogether or maybe just barely nicked his neck or something. It went through the windshield and into the concrete over there. I still stand by that, because that's the way I saw it." (Later) "There were three shots and they all came from the rear." (No More Silence p.142-l53, published 1998) “Just as I turned around, then the first shot went off. It hit back there…I could see where the shot came into the south side of the curb. It looked like it hit concrete or grass there in just a flash, and a bunch of junk flew up like a white or gray color dust or smoke coming out of the concrete… I thought there had been some people hit back there as people started falling. I thought either some crank had thrown a big “Baby John” firecracker and scared them causing them to jump down or else a fragmentation grenade had hit all those people. In any case they went down! Actually I think they threw themselves down in anticipation of another shot. As soon as I saw that, I turned around and rode up beside the chief’s car and BANG!...BANG!, two more shots went off, three shots in all!” (11-18-16 interview of William and Gayle Newman at the JFK Lancer Conference in Dallas) (On "Uncle Steve's" whereabouts when the shots rang out.) "Actually, he was on the other side of the triple underpass when the shots rang out." Analysis: Ellis is a poster child for Selective Attribution Syndrome. Conspiracy theorists and single-assassin theorists alike love to use his comments about seeing something hit the curb as evidence for a first shot miss. But they should read on. He says that as this happened people began running everywhere. That they began falling... He is therefore describing the head shot. What he saw hit the curb then was quite possibly the skull fragment observed flying through the air by Charles Brehm and later found in the street by Harry Holmes and A.D. McCurley. This conclusion is further supported by Ellis' statements to Morrissette, moreover. There, he made clear that 1) he believed the bullet striking the windshield was the same bullet that struck the street, and 2) he had come to conclude the first shot hit the street because he was under the impression the bullet striking the skull did not exit. If this is so, and Ellis had mis-remembered the head shot as the first shot, well, then, his description of Kennedy reaching for his neck and the third shot striking the President in the head would appear to be more an assertion of what he believes happened, then what he saw happen. Sure enough, in Ellis’s statements to Larry Sneed in No More Silence, he admits he turned back around before the second shot was fired and therefore could not have seen what he is purported to have seen in Bowles’ book. His throwing in the “Bang Bang” at the end was probably poetic license but possibly a reflection that he did indeed hear one or two shots after the head shot. In any event, his recollections aren't particularly credible. To make matters worse, the Bell and Daniel films prove Ellis was nowhere near the lead car at the time of the shooting. Heard no early shots. One or more shots possibly after the head shot.

Thanks.

Here is a link to the original HSCA hand written notes for anyone that is interested:

https://web.archive.org/web/20190608170748/http://www.jfkassassinationfiles.com/HSCA-180-10109-10154.pdf

Those handwritten notes are important as they include a diagram at the end showing where Ellis was at the time of the shooting. The drawing shows him to be alongside the drivers door area of the lead car. So apparently what happened was that he was in this general location when he heard/ saw the first shot, then veered his motorcycle off to his right a little to communicate through the drivers window to Curry that something had occurred. And this is when the next two shots went off. 

[Denis Morissette]

20 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

Thanks.

Here is a link to the original HSCA hand written notes for anyone that is interested:

https://web.archive.org/web/20190608170748/http://www.jfkassassinationfiles.com/HSCA-180-10109-10154.pdf

Those handwritten notes are important as they include a diagram at the end showing where Ellis was at the time of the shooting. The drawing shows him to be alongside the drivers door area of the lead car. So apparently what happened was that he was in this general location when he heard/ saw the first shot, then veered his motorcycle off to his right a little to communicate through the drivers window to Curry that something had occurred. And this is when the next two shots went off. 

I'm glad that my defunct website is still useful.

[Gerry Down]

12 minutes ago, Denis Morissette said:

I'm glad that my defunct website is still useful.

😃