The psychology of Conspiracy Think

[Bob Ness]

Just now, Micah Mileto said:

Do you think that legalizing all drugs in the United States would strengthen the cartels south of the border? Even if that were somehow true, I would simply say that the problem should be blamed on the government. Drugs being illegal is a holocaust. Holocausts don't heal overnight. 

It would encourage them to move north, apparently. That's the point. Did you read the article?

[Micah Mileto]

10 minutes ago, Bob Ness said:

It would encourage them to move north, apparently. That's the point. Did you read the article?

What genius decided to make legal weed more expensive than illegal weed? Weed grown tax-free with plenty of American land would be as cheap as corn. Cheap legal weed would be like a fire extinguisher to the cartels. Why are you choosing to take every opportunity to blame freedom and make excuses for taking away people's freedom?

Edited December 22, 2022 by Micah Mileto

[Bob Ness]

Just now, Micah Mileto said:

Why are you choosing to take every opportunity to blame freedom and make excuses against giving people more freedom?

Because I've been on every side of this issue for 40 plus years? Maybe that's it. 

I had a colorful youth so to speak. After going through the criminal justice system, I did volunteer work with addicts and alcoholics (and still do). I've taken guns from people intent on suicide (twice). Been on several suicide watches. Have had several people I worked with carry it out later, unfortunately. I've been on the legal end also in various capacities. 

What people who make this argument fail to realize is that the use of drugs (in the US at least) is essentially legal until the usage becomes a problem for someone other than them. People don't get arrested anymore because they were watching a football game smoking a joint and the FBI stormed the residence. At one time that could have happened in some places. Today you have to smoke a joint and get in a car wreck and injure someone. Then it becomes a problem.

I was skeptical with the legalizing pot trend but didn't see it negatively impact much if any at all over about 5 years. I'm still not against that even though there have been some worrisome developments. The pot farmers are stealing water and drilling wells in drought-stricken areas for instance. This is a MAJOR problem in agricultural areas where pot is replacing crops that don't have enough water to begin with. The cartels are bringing slave labor into those communities because the police are completely overwhelmed and can't do anything about it. This is a story you'll hear more about as well as the water issue.

Unfortunately, legal drugs are also a problem, maybe more so. It's a complex problem and oversimplification is satisfying intellectually but ineffective as a public policy in most respects. The solution you're calling for actually isn't for users really it mainly benefits suppliers. It seems to say, "Legalize drugs so I can get them easier!" Not "Legalize drugs to reduce or alleviate the problem!" A sort of decriminalizing at the lower end has merit but a wholesale legalizing will likely produce more problems, especially as the drugs themselves become more refined.

[Micah Mileto]

16 minutes ago, Bob Ness said:

What people who make this argument fail to realize is that the use of drugs (in the US at least) is essentially legal until the usage becomes a problem for someone other than them. People don't get arrested anymore because they were watching a football game smoking a joint and the FBI stormed the residence. At one time that could have happened in some places. Today you have to smoke a joint and get in a car wreck and injure someone. Then it becomes a problem.

Blatantly false. You gave this line to the wrong person. If you are bothering to bring up anecdotal evidence, I have anecdotal evidence of my own. Drugs being illegal is nothing short of a holocaust.

Legalizing drugs could very well reverse racism in the USA.

 

You also seem to ignorantly believe that driving high on weed is anything like drunk driving. Studies have debunked that to the moon. Alcohol is still the most dangerous drug in the world, and any replacement for it would be greatly appreciated.

 

Also, when you say that you have "been on several suicide watches", are you saying that were were directly involved in stripping people naked? If you have, then I can't even say here what I think about you.

 

You also never actually gave any reason to believe that legalizing drugs would raise addiction rates. Nowhere in your four paragraphs is an actual argument for why people should believe that.

 

Drug decriminalization instead of legalization is stupid for multiple reasons. The government cannot use the illegal drug market to benefit it's economy. Drug users are not offered a selection of drugs which could give them the opportunity to try less dangerous drugs. Decriminalization does not solve the problem of accidental overdoses. Decriminalization still gives officers an excuse to stop people for no reason (enabling racial profiling), and it still often involves the prosecution of drug dealers who have done nothing wrong. Rehab is counterproductive because it scars your record in a background check, and there are no adequate workers rights anywhere in the world.

Edited December 22, 2022 by Micah Mileto

[Bob Ness]

2 minutes ago, Micah Mileto said:

Blatantly false. You gave this line to the wrong person. If you are bothering to bring up anecdotal evidence, I have anecdotal evidence of my own. Drugs being illegal is nothing short of a holocaust.

I gave you my experience Micah and you can take it or leave it. Heard it all before.

[Micah Mileto]

Just now, Bob Ness said:

I gave you my experience Micah and you can take it or leave it. Heard it all before.

"The use of drugs (in the US at least) is essentially legal"???? Dude, there is no coming back from that cringe. You just posted cringe.

[Bob Ness]

5 minutes ago, Micah Mileto said:

Also, when you say that you have "been on several suicide watches", are you saying that were were directly involved in stripping people naked? If you have, then I can't even say here what I think about you.

FO. The people involved appreciated it as did their families. You're fking nuts to say something like that man.

[Bob Ness]

1 minute ago, Micah Mileto said:

"The use of drugs (in the US at least) is essentially legal"???? Dude, there is no coming back from that cringe. You just posted cringe.

See ya. FO

[Micah Mileto]

17 minutes ago, Bob Ness said:

FO. The people involved appreciated it as did their families. You're fking nuts to say something like that man.

I believe that stripping people naked like this is sexual assault. I don't care if they said afterwards that they thought it was justified - also, if they didn't think it was justified, they wouldn't want to talk to you. I believe in freedom. I think that freedom is more important than both safety and even happiness itself. Freedom is not necessarily a means of acquiring safety and happiness, freedom is important in it's own right. I think it would be more ethical to just let adults commit suicide whenever they feel like it.

 

EDIT: BTW do you think it would be justified for the government to force everybody to take happy pills if the pills had no side-effects?

Edited December 22, 2022 by Micah Mileto

[Bob Ness]

51 minutes ago, Micah Mileto said:

I believe that stripping people naked like this is sexual assault. I don't care if they said afterwards that they thought it was justified - also, if they didn't think it was justified, they wouldn't want to talk to you. I believe in freedom. I think that freedom is more important than both safety and even happiness itself. Freedom is not necessarily a means of acquiring safety and happiness, freedom is important in it's own right. I think it would be more ethical to just let adults commit suicide whenever they feel like it.

 

EDIT: BTW do you think it would be justified for the government to force everybody to take happy pills if the pills had no side-effects?

Listen you asshat. I didn't say I stripped anyone and most certainly didn't. I gave you a cogent explanation of a complex subject. You turned into nutball-land.

You are nuts. Back on the Thorazine with you. I'm done.

[Micah Mileto]

2 minutes ago, Bob Ness said:

 

"Nuts" implies the existence of a "normal". I do not believe that "normal" is a useful concept.

Also, nice using mental health medication as an insult. I'm sure your "friends" would appreciate that stray bullet.

Edited December 22, 2022 by Micah Mileto

[James DiEugenio]

8 hours ago, Lori Spencer said:

And they weren’t wrong… although I would argue America was being run by closeted Yahtzee  sympathizers (and actual Yahtzee’s, brought here by Dulles & the Agency) since 1945. 
 

These were many of the same actors who hated FDR for his diplomatic recognition of the USSR; his wartime alliance with Stalin; who plotted to overthrow him in 1933 — and who hated Kennedy for the same reason — being “soft on communism.” 

Also, great questions for Lance, @Jim DiEugenio, although I doubt he will actually answer them. Our spooky new friend seems to have vanished like a ghost. 👻 

My conspiratorial mind is always suspicious when a new member arrives on a forum, makes a big splash with incendiary insults towards longtime members, and passionately defends the CIA before rage quitting in a huff when challenged. 
 

Rather interesting this fellow Lance registered here on the 12th, 3 days prior to the JFK Records deadline — as if to blunt the impact the Agency surely knew was coming.  Once his mission failed, he skedaddled like a hound being chased by a panther!
 

I’d be surprised if he returns. Clearly he wasn’t here to engage in civilized debate, or discuss admissible evidence. Lance just did a classic hit-and-run, as feds (and their affiliated attorneys) always do. 
 

 

Thanks Lori.

That whole spiel was one of the keystones of the film.

And I left out a couple of points. The cyclists who said they got hit with Kennedy's brain so hard they thought they had been shot.   Plus a neurologist saying that drawing cannot represent JFK's brain 

Edited December 22, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[Sandy Larsen]

9 hours ago, Micah Mileto said:

I blame the government for "lives ruined by heroin", not the dealers, because the government is responsible for drugs being illegal, and legal drugs certainly could have changed the situation.

 

If there were no heroin dealers, there would be zero lives ruined by heroin. Zero.

 

[Micah Mileto]

9 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

If there were no heroin dealers, there would be zero lives ruined by heroin. Zero.

 

See what I already said about conflating cause and responsibility, and how that is one of the most common logical fallacies in people's thinking.

 

Also if there were no laws against heroin, heroin could be sold at Walgreens, where it's purity would be regulated, and where other less dangerous drugs would also be offered for the same price.

[Sandy Larsen]

1 hour ago, Micah Mileto said:

See what I already said about conflating cause and responsibility, and how that is one of the most common logical fallacies in people's thinking.

 

You are wrong. This is a 100% factually correct and logical statement:

If there were no heroin dealers, there would be zero lives ruined by heroin. Zero.

I said nothing about cause and responsibility whatsoever, so I could not have conflated the two as you claim I did.

 

The proof is in the pudding Micah. Show me one thriving city in the entire world where all drugs are legal and available and have been for a long time, and that doesn't have a drug problem.... If you do that, I will agree that what you say is correct.

Better yet, show me such a city where all your libertarian fantasies have been actualized. Just one.