MAINSTREAM COOLER - For those who believe mainstream contemporary facts.

[Kirk Gallaway]

Israel is big box office human misery!

Poor old Ukraine, too bad people can't see the atrocities, the utter destruction, the displacement and the general horror and human pain and suffering Ukraine has had to go through and still is..

They're estimating 11,000 orphans in Gaza. Ukraine estimates there as many as 300,000 orphans in Ukraine, many shipped off to Russia. But that estimate has about as much credibility as RK's estimate of 300,000 Ukrainians  dead. Still you know the total has to be many times more than in Gaza!. They've been fighting almost 2 years!

 

This is the world we live in, and this is war. I think images of war shown throughout the world is probably a good thing  and will invoke for most people a common sense of humanity.

Life isn't fair and war is hell.

 

 

Sounds like we're now winding this down in Ukraine.

 

 

U.S. Mission to NATO

 

 

Ukraine has taken back more than half of its territory seized by Russia’s forces since February 2022. In this tough and dynamic battle, Ukraine’s soldiers are fighting bravely every single day, and they continue to inspire the world with their bravery and courage. We will continue to support them to be in the strongest possible position at the negotiating table when the time comes. We continue to stand #UnitedWithUkraine while they defend their freedom.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Kirk Gallaway

[Kirk Gallaway]

What's with the western press here? We have CNN still raising issues about Israel's claim that Hamas is using "human shields"with tunnels beneath the Al Shifa hospital, but here's what they've neglected to mention.   We now have this Christiane Amanpour  interview where former PM Barak tells Amanpour that Israel constructed the underground tunnel under the hospital back in 1983!

 

 

 

[Douglas Caddy]

 

Dissent Over Zionism Is Splitting the ADL From Within, Ex-Staff Say – DNyuz

[W. Niederhut]

10 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

If a building is protecting numerous enemy combatants, it is a legitimate military target. If the building isn't the property of the enemy and it is damaged or destroyed, that would be collateral damage. If civilians in the building are injured or killed, that would be collateral damage.

 

 

Hiroshima and Gaza are completely different situations. For one thing, Hiroshima had relatively few enemy combatants, and the ones that were there weren't using civilians or civilian structures to protect themselves from enemy fire. If the bombing of Hiroshima happened today, that would definitely be considered a war crime. Whereas in Gaza, Israel is bombing structures that it believes are protecting enemy combatants. The rules are complex, but these may not be considered to be war crimes even with all the civilian casualties.

I hate wars. But sometimes engaging in one is better than not engaging in it.

 

Sandy,

     Well, obviously, we must agree to disagree on this one.

     Gaza is one of the most densely populated places on earth, and 1 million of its 2.3 million citizens are children.

     The massive bombardment (over 25,000 tons of bombs) and demolition of residential buildings, schools, and hospitals, isn't "collateral damage," in any meaningful definition of the term.

     It's "collective punishment" of a denigrated civilian population-- a war crime.

     Netanyahu's goal is, apparently, to make Gaza uninhabitable, and ethnically cleanse the area of indigenous Palestinians.

    

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by W. Niederhut

[Douglas Caddy]

 

 

[Douglas Caddy]

He took money while supporting the insurrection.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/gop-senator-took-tens-of-thousands-of-donation-dollars-from-arizona-fake-electors-report/ar-AA1kn0XF?ocid=socialshare&pc=DCTS&cvid=a138aaacb5244a2faa75971bd2883fc6&ei=14

[Sandy Larsen]

9 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

20 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

If a building is protecting numerous enemy combatants, it is a legitimate military target. If the building isn't the property of the enemy and it is damaged or destroyed, that would be collateral damage. If civilians in the building are injured or killed, that would be collateral damage.

9 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Well, obviously, we must agree to disagree on this one.

 

I'm just telling you how militaries views things, and how war crimes are generally judged. Those aren't my decisions, but they do make sense when viewed from a neutral perspective, IMO.

Netanyahu has likely gone over the legal line, but I'm no expert and thus cannot judge him. I think that without Biden tempering him, Netanyahu probably would be committing genocide.

Do you disagree with Netanyahu's goal of destroying Hamas? Don't you think that even most thinking and honest politicians in Washington (e.g. most Democrats) also want Hamas destroyed?

 

[Kirk Gallaway]

2 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Do you disagree with Netanyahu's goal of destroying Hamas? Don't you think that even most thinking and honest politicians in Washington (e.g. most Democrats) also want Hamas destroyed?

The only problem Sandy is now you're creating 2 future members of Hamas or the equivalent for every on Hamas you destroy.

I streamed this documentary  from a PBS  Frontline last night about the beginnings of the demise in Mariupol when the Russians started bombing and then the occupation, and the newfound horror of the citizens.

I grant not pleasant. Maybe you have to be in a 'tell like it is" mood. But it made an impression on me.

 

 

[Sandy Larsen]

6 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

The only problem Sandy is now you're creating 2 future members of Hamas or the equivalent for every on Hamas you destroy.

 

While that is true, at least the second time through you know to use more resources in keeping the new Hamas from occupying Gaza... or any other city.

What would you have done after 10/7 had you been prime minister of Israel?

Same question for @W. Niederhut.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

14 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

I streamed this documentary  from a PBS  Frontline last night about the beginnings of the demise in Mariupol when the Russians started bombing and then the occupation, and the newfound horror of the citizens.

 

And yet the people of Ukraine choose to continue fighting.

 

[Kirk Gallaway]

On 10/12/2023 at 7:52 AM, Kirk Gallaway said:

You do have to wonder what Hamas was thinking. Sure they have lot of hostages, but they murdered so many innocent people! They had to know that Israel will be so mad they'll be quite willing to lose some hostages, and wreak 20 times the destruction and kill considerably more people  first.

Sandy,What would you have done after 10/7 had you been prime minister of Israel?

As I said here at the time. I'd fully expect the stronger nation to exact it's pound of flesh several times over. That's a political reality, just as there was no doubt Al Gore would also have invaded Afghanistan after 911 because he would  never get re elected if he didn't. But I think it's safe to say, Gore would never have then invaded Iraq.

But this is a senseless slaughter now. The real nucleus of Hamas and their finances aren't held in Gaza anyway.The hope of eliminating Hamas while destroying Palestinian families and rendering 100's of 1000s homeless is a pipe dream. Have you noticed how active the ADL is with their commercials on American TV now? That's their right. But you won't hear near as many ads making the case for the Palestinian cause because they aren't near as well financed.

If I were PM, I'd cease fire, end the destruction, negotiate for hostages,  and work with  the Palestinian authority on the West Bank on a 2 state solution which would involve eliminating the Hamas influence. The  last election they had was back in 2006 and despite what people say Hamas did not win, they got  a narrow plurality. And they are held in much less esteem by the Palestinians now. The current Netanyahu regime would fight it tooth and nail. They have to be elected out, and that's also very doable.

2 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

And yet the people of Ukraine choose to continue fighting.

I'm not sure what your point is. Did you watch any of this? This is of a civilian response to the beginning of Putin's  civilian bombing of the Eastern city of  Mariupol.. The capital of Ukraine, Kiev is in the West and they, the government  chose to fight. If you remember  practically no one thought Putin was going to go through with it. Including self appointed forum Kremlin expert Jeff Carter. They may have sensed it was coming, but that doesn't lessen their anguish when it becomes a reality. And they did end up fighting for 86 days.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2023 by Kirk Gallaway

[Steve Thomas]

- Donald Trump -

"Happy Thanksgiving to ALL, including the Racist & Incompetent Attorney General of New York State, Letitia 'Peekaboo' James, who has let Murder & Violent Crime FLOURISH, & Businesses FLEE; the Radical Left Trump Hating Judge, a 'Psycho,' Arthur Engoron, who Criminally Defrauded the State of New York, & ME, by purposely Valuing my Assets at a 'tiny' Fraction of what they are really worth in order to convict me of Fraud before even a Trial, or seeing any PROOF, & used his Politically Biased & Corrupt Campaign Finance Violator, Chief Clerk Alison Greenfield, to sit by his side on the 'Bench' & tell him what to do; & Crooked Joe Biden, who has WEAPONIZED his Department of Injustice against his Political Opponent, & allowed our Country to go to HELL; & all of the other Radical Left Lunatics, Communists, Fascists, Marxists, Democrats, & RINOS, who are seriously looking to DESTROY OUR COUNTRY," the ex-president posted. "Have no fear, however, we will WIN the Presidential Election of 2024, & MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!!!"

 

Just wait. Christmas is coming.

Steve Thomas

[W. Niederhut]

3 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

- Donald Trump -

"Happy Thanksgiving to ALL, including the Racist & Incompetent Attorney General of New York State, Letitia 'Peekaboo' James, who has let Murder & Violent Crime FLOURISH, & Businesses FLEE; the Radical Left Trump Hating Judge, a 'Psycho,' Arthur Engoron, who Criminally Defrauded the State of New York, & ME, by purposely Valuing my Assets at a 'tiny' Fraction of what they are really worth in order to convict me of Fraud before even a Trial, or seeing any PROOF, & used his Politically Biased & Corrupt Campaign Finance Violator, Chief Clerk Alison Greenfield, to sit by his side on the 'Bench' & tell him what to do; & Crooked Joe Biden, who has WEAPONIZED his Department of Injustice against his Political Opponent, & allowed our Country to go to HELL; & all of the other Radical Left Lunatics, Communists, Fascists, Marxists, Democrats, & RINOS, who are seriously looking to DESTROY OUR COUNTRY," the ex-president posted. "Have no fear, however, we will WIN the Presidential Election of 2024, & MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!!!"

 

Just wait. Christmas is coming.

Steve Thomas

Yeah, Steve, and you can't make this stuff up.

While attacking the rule of law in the U.S., Trump is also determined to Make Fascism Great Again abroad.

Trump to Visit Argentina

November 23, 2023 at 12:08 pm EST By Taegan Goddard

Donald Trump has told Argentina’s President-elect Javier Milei that he plans to travel to the South American country so the two can meet, the AP reports.

[W. Niederhut]

13 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

I'm just telling you how militaries views things, and how war crimes are generally judged. Those aren't my decisions, but they do make sense when viewed from a neutral perspective, IMO.

Netanyahu has likely gone over the legal line, but I'm no expert and thus cannot judge him. I think that without Biden tempering him, Netanyahu probably would be committing genocide.

Do you disagree with Netanyahu's goal of destroying Hamas? Don't you think that even most thinking and honest politicians in Washington (e.g. most Democrats) also want Hamas destroyed?

 

Sandy,

     You're begging the question here.

     Israel's purported military objective is to destroy the Hamas militants that Netanyahu has been supporting for the past 20 years (in order to bolster his popularity and sabotage a two-state solution.)

     But his Rules of Engagement belie that alleged military objective.

      In reality, the IDF has been demolishing entire, densely-populated residential neighborhoods in Gaza -- including apartment buildings, schools, and hospitals.

      That isn't "collateral damage," unless entire residential communities--and civilian non-combatants-- are defined as "military targets."

      But such a definition is synonymous with ethnic cleansing and genocidal war crimes.

      It's analogous to a scenario where General William Tecumseh Sherman would have indiscriminately massacred women and children in South Carolina-- in response to the Confederate attack on Fort Sumter.

[Matt Allison]

2 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

In reality, the IDF has been demolishing entire, densely-populated residential neighborhoods in Gaza -- including apartment buildings, schools, and hospitals.

I think we need a cite for that, and it would definitely need to be from a non-Hamas related source.