MAINSTREAM COOLER - For those who believe mainstream contemporary facts.

[Sandy Larsen]

21 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

I don't  get what you're saying Sandy, or what you're inferring from what i said.

 

Kirk,

One of my pet peeves for decades has been that many Christians don't even know what Jesus's great commandment is, which is to love your neighbor.

So I commented on that.

Upon doing so, I recalled that you'd earlier mentioned the First Commandment. Which you jokingly said you almost called an Amendment.  :o)

I didn't know that Christians had more than one commandment. So I looked it up, and as it turns out, Jesus gave us TWO commandments! (Matthew 22:34-40) First, to love God, and second to love your neighbor. I'd completely forgotten about the first commandment.

So what I wrote to you was to acknowledge that I'd forgotten the First Commandment that you'd mentioned. And I worked into that your joke about almost calling it an amendment.  :o)

 

[Sandy Larsen]

On 2/25/2024 at 3:00 AM, Kirk Gallaway said:

But when I think of the antithesis of "love your neighbor", i think of the current situation of Israel bombing the sh-t out of a  region and killing 30,000 innocent civilians. That can rattle me a little.

 

I just read that loving one's neighbor is as important in Judaism as it is in Christianity. Which was a surprise to me. I'd always thought of Christianity as being a kinder, more gentle religion.

So I went back to see how Christianity differs from Judaism in that regard. I found that, after Jesus taught his followers to love their neighbors, he went on to say that they should even love their enemies! Judaism doesn't teach that.

In contrast, Judaism teaches the principle of "an eye for an eye." Which doesn't mean that literally, but rather that punishment should be commensurate with the crime. Obviously Israel has been grievously violating that principle.

Wondering how Israeli Jews could justify their excessive response to the Oct. 7 Hamas attack, I did some digging and discovered that a 2015 Gallup survey determined that 65% of Israelis say they are either "not religious" or are "convinced atheists", while only 30% say they are "religious". That may explain it. Of course, even religious Israelis could be not living their religion.

 

[Kirk Gallaway]

Sandy, I think to understand what I said, you first have to know the First Commandment and the First Amendment. What i was commenting on first was  the First Commandment which is "I am the Lord thy God, thou shall not have strange Gods before me."* This was in reference in part to both W. and Matt's comments that the Trump Christian movement  are not truly Christians. And  I understand where they're coming from. .

The First Amendment is about freedom of speech, and in essence allows false gods to propagate themselves and accumulate power. So I said they are at cross purposes to one another.

i then drew a parallel noting that there are existential times in life where people whether religious or not have to stand up for policies that are against genocide.

I'm not trying to be challenging, but  I'm not sure if your poll about Israel religious devoutness is any real indication,as policy wise. How are Israeli's any different than you? That is, I'm sure there are good numbers of people there who abhor the genocide, like you but still are in compliance with  the 4 U.S. /Israel vetoes  against the U.N. resolution calling for a ceasefire. 

In fact, I don't think religious devoutness has anything to do with this at all. As the vast majority of Christians in the U.S. are not in favor of a ceasefire and are going along with U.S./Israeli policy.

IMO, religious identification in the U.S. exacerbates this problem of condoning genocide, drawing false allegiances to Israel  as "God's chosen people" through that imagery Christians share of Israel being the Holy Land,  and supposed Biblical prophecies such as  "the Rapture" which some fringe Christian groups believe, among other religious dogma. 

 

 

* like Joseph Smith, heh heh.   That' really interesting Sandy, I guess i thought Mormons  being Christians had sort of basic knowledge of the traditional tenets like the 10 commandments. As being brought up Catholic, I had to memorize them in my youth!

Shame on you!, heh heh... a joke!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 26 by Kirk Gallaway

[W. Niederhut]

50 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Sandy, I think to understand what I said, you first have to know the First Commandment and the First Amendment. What i was commenting on first was  the First Commandment which is "I am the Lord thy God, thou shall not have strange Gods before me."* This was in reference in part to both W. and Matt's comments that the Trump Christian movement  are not truly Christians. And  I understand where they're coming from. .

The First Amendment is about freedom of speech, and in essence allows false gods to propagate themselves and accumulate power. So I said they are at cross purposes to one another.

i then drew a parallel noting that there are existential times in life where people whether religious or not have to stand up for policies that are against genocide.

I'm not trying to be challenging, but  I'm not sure if your poll about Israel religious devoutness is any real indication,as policy wise. How are Israeli's any different than you? That is, I'm sure there are good numbers of people there who abhor the genocide, like you but still are in compliance with  the 4 U.S. /Israel vetoes  against the U.N. resolution calling for a ceasefire. 

In fact, I don't think religious devoutness has anything to do with this at all. As the vast majority of Christians in the U.S. are not in favor of a ceasefire and are going along with U.S./Israeli policy.

IMO, religious identification in the U.S. exacerbates this problem of condoning genocide, drawing false allegiances to Israel  through the imagery Christians share of Israel being the Holy Land,  and supposed Biblical prophecies such as  "the Rapture" which some fringe Christian groups believe, among other religious dogma. 

 

 

* like Joseph Smith, heh heh.   That' really interesting Sandy, I guess i thought Mormons  being Christians had sort of basic knowledge of the traditional tenets like the 10 commandments. As being brought up Catholic, I had to memorize them in my youth!

Shame on you!, heh heh... a joke!

Kirk,

    Judaism is, in essence, a tribalistic religion.  In fact, in traditional Orthodox Judaism, the Talmud teaches that non-Jews, the Goyim, have the spiritual status of beasts.  The Goyim are considered unclean, and there is ample evidence of that traditional Jewish belief (and praxis) in the life of Christ and his Apostles, who were all Jews.

    In contrast, Christ's Jewish Apostles (Peter, Paul, et.al.) concluded, radically, that the Goyim were to be accepted into their spiritual community, as described in detail in St. Luke's Acts of the Apostles.

    So, in effect, the Church transitioned from a tribalistic Jewish sect to a spiritual community open to all nations.

    And the scholarly Jewish Pharisee, Saul of Tarsus, in a radical turn of events, became the Apostle to the Gentiles, St. Paul.  Many of St. Paul's Epistles expound on Paul's interpretation of the relationship between traditional Judaism, the Torah, and the new Christian theophany.

    Now, oddly, Hitler and the Nazis tried to promote a twisted, tribalistic version of Christianity in which Christ was depicted as an Anti-Semitic Aryan!

     But the Pope, in 1939, issued an encyclical which correctly condemned fascism as an anti-Christian heresy-- precisely because it was tribalistic and racist, denying the spiritual equality of all people.

[Kirk Gallaway]

Thanks for the historical  background W. But that's not what I'm talking about.

We have a good idea where Israel's at. They're in the drivers seat and have constructed this genocidal policy and despite our pleas, have shown no signs in letting up.

But it takes 2 to tango. Let's talk about present realities.. America is still a largely  Christian nation. And American Christians have seen   4 months of genocide going on in Gaza on TV and whatever their expressed revulsion is, it's not enough to translate even into the first step of calling for a ceasefire. 

This reflects in their representatives in Congress. Joe Biden is under little  pressure from largely Christian Republicans  and Christian Democrats, and feels he can take his time. Even the issue of the Arab population in Michigan turning against him in the 2024 election is really a long way down the road.  In the meantime 1000's of innocent people have and will die.

We're not going to go in there with troops. The ceasefire initiated by the U.N. is probably the most logical first step. 

I'm not necessarily an absolutist who says. "either your part of the solution, or you're part of the problem".  But what I was saying to Sandy is  I think his initial premise that Israel is more apt to engage in genocide because in his poll, they' re not devout, can be easily be debunked and without trying pigeonhole him as I know he's sincere, he demographically falls right into the typical American Christian in that he's offended by what he sees on TV, but it doesn't translate into any real policy, probably like a lot of Israelis. So effectively, what's the difference?

Just as the Pope never took a direct stand against Hitler and Mussolini. Neither have the American Christians. But I suspect they will  I just wonder when.

[W. Niederhut]

1 hour ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Thanks for the historical  background W. But that's not what I'm talking about.

We have a good idea where Israel's at. They're in the drivers seat and have constructed this genocidal policy and despite our pleas, have shown no signs in letting up.

But it takes 2 to tango. Let's talk about present realities.. America is still a largely  Christian nation. And American Christians have seen   4 months of genocide going on in Gaza on TV and whatever their expressed revulsion is, it's not enough to translate even into the first step of calling for a ceasefire. 

This reflects in their representatives in Congress. Joe Biden is under little  pressure from largely Christian Republicans  and Christian Democrats, and feels he can take his time. Even the issue of the Arab population in Michigan turning against him in the 2024 election is really a long way down the road.  In the meantime 1000's of innocent people have and will die.

We're not going to go in there with troops. The ceasefire initiated by the U.N. is probably the most logical first step. 

I'm not necessarily an absolutist who says. "either your part of the solution, or you're part of the problem".  But what I was saying to Sandy is  I think his initial premise that Israel is more apt to engage in genocide because in his poll, they' re not devout, can be easily be debunked and without trying pigeonhole him as I know he's sincere, he demographically falls right into the typical American Christian in that he's offended by what he sees on TV, but it doesn't translate into any real policy, probably like a lot of Israelis. So effectively, what's the difference?

Just as the Pope never took a direct stand against Hitler and Mussolini. Neither have the American Christians. But I suspect they will  I just wonder when.

Kirk,

     From what I've seen, some of the most dedicated exterminators of the Palestinian goyim are devout Israelis.

     I've even seen video clips of Israeli soldiers reciting Jewish prayers while they blow up mosques in Gaza.

     It's Talmudic-- like Netanyahu quoting the Torah scriptures in which the Prophet Samuel was instructed (by Yahweh) to annihilate the Amaleks.

     As for the Roman Catholic Church and fascism, it is true that many conservative Christians in the 1930s initially viewed European fascism as a bulwark against atheistic communism.  But, in fact, Pope Pius XI issued an encyclical condemning Naziism as fundamentally antithetical to Christianity, in 1937.  (Not 1939, as I stated above.)

     The 1937 Papal encyclical condemning Naziism was entitled, Mit brennender Sorge.

Mit brennender Sorge - Wikipedia

 

Edited February 26 by W. Niederhut

[Douglas Caddy]

Machael Moore says Biden may lose tomorrow in Michigan Democratic primary

https://open.substack.com/pub/michaelmoore/p/in-michigan-tuesday-we-ask-the-president?r=5pqyc&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

[Douglas Caddy]

Wow!!!!

 

Russia-tied hackers threaten to leak Georgia Trump trial docs if ransom isn't paid: report - Raw Story

[W. Niederhut]

1 hour ago, Douglas Caddy said:

Wow!!!!

 

Russia-tied hackers threaten to leak Georgia Trump trial docs if ransom isn't paid: report - Raw Story

Is this the Kremlin's way of forcing a mistrial in Fulton County?  Divulging trial documents?

If so, it's a new Russian approach to promoting Putin's Orange Asset.

[Douglas Caddy]

 

 

Houthis knock out underwater cables linking Europe to Asia - report - The Jerusalem Post (jpost.com)

[Douglas Caddy]

 

Ex-spy Pollard wants to join Ben-Gvir in Knesset, send Gazans to Ireland - Israel News - The Jerusalem Post (jpost.com)

[Kirk Gallaway]

Kenneth Chesbro lied about having a secret twitter account in his plea deal They better indict him for this.

According to the report, Chesebro promoted a “far more aggressive” plot than he had admitted to investigators, laying the groundwork on X for a scheme to overturn the results of the election even in the event Trump lost his legal battles—despite later claiming the fake electors were primarily a backup plan in case Trump won his legal cases.

 

ttps://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2024/02/26/who-is-kenneth-chesebro-trump-attorney-behind-fake-electors-strategy-reportedly-hid-tweets-from-investigators/?sh=d0f4e1c5176c

[Matt Allison]

Yes, just read the article on the CNN page.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/26/politics/kenneth-chesebro-secret-twitter-account-kfile/index.html

While the first public confirmation came with the infamous Atlantic article in September 2020, the plot to steal the election for Trump was likely laid in very early June of 2020; at that point internal polling confirmed that Trump was likely to lose the election, so Plan Steal went into effect. Chesbro knows where lots of bodies are buried and I hope he flips.

[Kirk Gallaway]

9 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Kirk,

     From what I've seen, some of the most dedicated exterminators of the Palestinian goyim are devout Israelis.

     I've even seen video clips of Israeli soldiers reciting Jewish prayers while they blow up mosques in Gaza.

     It's Talmudic-- like Netanyahu quoting the Torah scriptures in which the Prophet Samuel was instructed (by Yahweh) to annihilate the Amaleks.

     As for the Roman Catholic Church and fascism, it is true that many conservative Christians in the 1930s initially viewed European fascism as a bulwark against atheistic communism.  But, in fact, Pope Pius XI issued an encyclical condemning Naziism as fundamentally antithetical to Christianity, in 1937.  (Not 1939, as I stated above.)

     The 1937 Papal encyclical condemning Naziism was entitled, Mit brennender Sorge.

Mit brennender Sorge - Wikipedia

 

Interesting article about the Pope but there's a lot of controversy about that. Including some newly released documents. that were every bit as hard to get out of the Vatican as the remaining JFK files.

Pious was on thin ice because he feared the Nazis would take over Europe. And despite that document you cite sent from the Vatican to Germany in 1937.  In 1943, the Nazis came up to the Vatican's doorstep in Rome and rounded up  1250 Jews to take back to Auschwitz. The only  angle that Pope Pious XII could work was that some of them had been baptized and he managed to spare 250 but the remaining 1200 were sent back to Auschwitz and all but 7 of them were exterminated! 

You can read and watch here.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/vatican-documents-show-secret-back-channel-between-pope-pius-xii-and-adolph-hitler

I know I brought that up, but my intention wasn't to talk history. But I do see similar things going on right now, and what I'm curious about is trying to get your thoughts in your own words about these questions.

Kirk: America is still a largely  Christian nation. American Christians have seen   4 months of genocide going on in Gaza on TV and whatever their expressed revulsion is, it's not enough to translate even into the first step of calling for a ceasefire. 

W. Where is the humanitarian outrage of the American Christian community? As I've said, politically they are very pro Israeli, and they exert absolutely zero pressure in Congress against the genocide. Quite the opposite. They are  forging on , with their support of Israeli which seems to be the one issue that Dems and Repubs are united on.

Then on a more macro level. Purely on a political level now, isn't religion in America a huge  net negative force with horrendous consequences? The only people who are trying to make any difference are the right wing, who are the most active, the most vocal, and the most well financed and are Fascistic in their trampling of human rights, and the traditional Christians have no courage to oppose them because they are other Christians. So what good are they?

[Sandy Larsen]

14 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Sandy, I think to understand what I said, you first have to know the First Commandment and the First Amendment. What i was commenting on first was  the First Commandment which is "I am the Lord thy God, thou shall not have strange Gods before me."*

 

Ah, okay. You were referring to the first of the Ten Commandments.

I don't think of the Ten Commandments as being Christian. I think of them as being part of the Old Law that was fulfilled and obsoleted with the Coming of Christ.

 

14 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

I'm not trying to be challenging, but  I'm not sure if your poll about Israel religious devoutness is any real indication,as policy wise. How are Israeli's any different than you?

 

I've always just assumed that the Israeli Jews tended to be devout. I mean, why else would they choose to live there?

But now we have new generations of Israeli Jews. And I guess they have become less religious.

There is good reason for me to think that Jews are more religious than others. The fact that they tend to be much more successful than other peoples. Only 2% of Americans are Jews, and yet you see successful ones all the time in the news.

And so I've wondered what it is about Jews that makes them so successful. The only thing I could think of that would be common among them all is their religion. I thought it was their religious teachings that led to their being successful.

But maybe they tend to be successful merely because they are the Chosen People. God favors them.

 

14 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

* like Joseph Smith, heh heh.   That' really interesting Sandy, I guess i thought Mormons  being Christians had sort of basic knowledge of the traditional tenets like the 10 commandments.

 

I grew up in a Mormon household in the center of Mormonism, but have been agnostic most my life. I didn't think there was any way to prove there is a god, etc.

I became a believing Christian ten or fifteen years ago, when I discovered what I believe is proof that Jesus rose from the dead. I have also identified Old Testament prophesies that were were fulfilled with amazing accuracy.

Also, several years ago I learned that there actually is proof of a god. Amazingly, even Steven Hawking (among numerous other physicists) knew/know the proof, but may not have realized it as such.