Walker Bullet Article in KennedysandKing

[Steve Roe]

On 5/27/2023 at 11:33 AM, Lawrence Schnapf said:

I hope your article will  approach the caliber of your rifle strap analysis and not your other work where all of your inferences favor or are viewed through the lens of one gunman advocate.         

Larry, my correspondence with you on the rifle strap mounts, you said you would show Brian Edwards that article. If you did, want did he say? 

[Benjamin Cole]

I was interviewed by Black Op Radio on the Walker Bullet.

When I couldn't think of what point to make, I made up for that by shouting and repeating myself, but aside from that it was pretty good. Keep an ear out for it. 

[Lawrence Schnapf]

@Steve Roe Hi Steve- I forwarded your piece to Brian some time ago but havent had chance to follow-up b/c of the time pressures with the Biden lawsuit. will follow-up

@Tom Gram @Benjamin Cole @Steve Roe I've proposed a walker panel for the Wecht 60th anniversary conference in Pittsburgh. Would any of you want to participate. I figured we could discuss the issues in a back and forth.

Ben, I think you're in Thailand so you are probably not available.

Steve- if you're not available, would there be someone you would recommend to present your view of the evidence? 

[Steve Roe]

19 minutes ago, Lawrence Schnapf said:

@Steve Roe Hi Steve- I forwarded your piece to Brian some time ago but havent had chance to follow-up b/c of the time pressures with the Biden lawsuit. will follow-up

@Tom Gram @Benjamin Cole @Steve Roe I've proposed a walker panel for the Wecht 60th anniversary conference in Pittsburgh. Would any of you want to participate. I figured we could discuss the issues in a back and forth.

Ben, I think you're in Thailand so you are probably not available.

Steve- if you're not available, would there be someone you would recommend to present your view of the evidence? 

Ok thanks Larry. What is the date of the Wecht conference?

[Lawrence Schnapf]

Nov 16th and 17th. it will be in person and virtual. the panel has not yet been approved so dont book your airfare yet

[Tom Gram]

5 hours ago, Lawrence Schnapf said:

@Steve Roe Hi Steve- I forwarded your piece to Brian some time ago but havent had chance to follow-up b/c of the time pressures with the Biden lawsuit. will follow-up

@Tom Gram @Benjamin Cole @Steve Roe I've proposed a walker panel for the Wecht 60th anniversary conference in Pittsburgh. Would any of you want to participate. I figured we could discuss the issues in a back and forth.

Ben, I think you're in Thailand so you are probably not available.

Steve- if you're not available, would there be someone you would recommend to present your view of the evidence? 

I’m interested, and can probably attend if it gets approved. Let me know. 

[Benjamin Cole]

6 hours ago, Lawrence Schnapf said:

Nov 16th and 17th. it will be in person and virtual. the panel has not yet been approved so dont book your airfare yet

I can participate virtually. 

 

[Steve Roe]

21 hours ago, Lawrence Schnapf said:

Nov 16th and 17th. it will be in person and virtual. the panel has not yet been approved so dont book your airfare yet

Larry, I think it's fair to have this as a virtual Zoom panel discussion. Ben Cole is the main author of two Walker stories and should be able to be allowed to tell his side of the story. Just keep in mind the time differences, so Ben doesn't have to wake up 3:00 in the morning to jump on Zoom. If Tom Gram wants to travel to Pittsburg, that's fine. I won't be able to travel there at those time slots. I could be available to do a Zoom conference. Thanks for the invite. 

[Lawrence Schnapf]

i will discuss logistics with conference organizers. My idea was a panel but that would require an hour. 

@Benjamin Cole what is your time difference?

[Benjamin Cole]

9 hours ago, Lawrence Schnapf said:

i will discuss logistics with conference organizers. My idea was a panel but that would require an hour. 

@Benjamin Cole what is your time difference?

10 am in Bangkok is 10 pm in Dallas....then there is daylight savings time...

No matter sked the conference and I will drink a few gallons of coffee 

Or mai tais if Steve Roe is participating. 

[Benjamin Cole]

I have been reading newspapers from 1945 to 1963. 

https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn88065202/1945-12-13/ed-1/seq-1/#date1=1945&sort=&date2=1963&words=bullets+jacket+steel&language=&sequence=0&lccn=&index=16&state=&rows=20&ortext=&proxtext=steel+and+jacketed+and+bullet+&year=&phrasetext=&andtext=&proxValue=&dateFilterType=yearRange&page=1

I do not know if this link will work. 

The paper was The Republican, Dec. 13, 1945.

The regional game warden arrested a hunter for using steel-jacketed bullets.

Obviously, hunters use rifles. 

The regional game warden obviously did not regard all rifle bullets as "steel jacketed," and took particular exception to a deer hunter using steel-jacketed bullets. Arrested him. 

I can find nothing in the literature that indicates anybody familiar with firearms or ammo, or anyone in any official capacity, ever regarded all rifle bullets as steel jacketed. 

 

 

[Mark Ulrik]

Thanks for the link, Ben. It seems to me that the article may have been (mis)using "steel jacket" as a pseudonym for full metal jacket.

[Benjamin Cole]

3 hours ago, Mark Ulrik said:

Thanks for the link, Ben. It seems to me that the article may have been (mis)using "steel jacket" as a pseudonym for full metal jacket.

I don't think so. 

1. Full metal jacket bullets are for military use, to comply with Geneva conventions. 

2. Hunters often use jacketed bullets with a lead nose, a nose that expands on impact and is more likely to down the target. 

3. Evidently, steel-jacketed bullets are more likely to spark and start fires. This strikes me as unlikely, but to this day most outdoor shooting ranges ban steel-jacketed bullets for this reason. So, steel-jacketed bullets are illegal for hunting in some jurisdictions. 

The funny thing is, that the 1945  article relates that that the weather had been sleeting and snowing and chased the hunters away. But evidently the game warden enforced the law that banned steel-jacketed bullets. 

Again, among people who work around and know ammo---even game wardens, let alone police detectives---the words "steel-jacketed" means steel-jacketed, and is not a colloquialism for any metal-jacketed bullet. 

The vast majority of deer hunters use a copper-jacketed bullet with a lead nose. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mark Ulrik]

18 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

2. Hunters often use jacketed bullets with a lead nose, a nose that expands on impact and is more likely to down the target. 

Well, I believe that's the main argument for outlawing FMJ ammo for hunting. You don't want the animal to suffer more than necessary. You also don't want the bullet to just punch through and hit something (or someone) else. What's your argument for outlawing steel jackets? They cause forest fires?

22 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

The vast majority of deer hunters use a copper-jacketed bullet with a lead nose. 

Yes, because they prefer to kill as quickly and effectively as possible. It conceivable that they're also legally prohibited (at least in parts of the US) from using FMJ ammo.

[Benjamin Cole]

12 hours ago, Mark Ulrik said:

Well, I believe that's the main argument for outlawing FMJ ammo for hunting. You don't want the animal to suffer more than necessary. You also don't want the bullet to just punch through and hit something (or someone) else. What's your argument for outlawing steel jackets? They cause forest fires?

Yes, because they prefer to kill as quickly and effectively as possible. It conceivable that they're also legally prohibited (at least in parts of the US) from using FMJ ammo.

"What's your argument for outlawing steel jackets? They cause forest fires?"

That is not my argument. 

Evidently, steel-jacketed bullets, when they strike rocks or boulders, have a tendency to spark, and set off fires. 

As I said, this seems unlikely to me, but many outdoor gun ranges ban steel-jackets bullets for this very reason. 

(However, as someone who used to hike in the tinder-dry San Gabriels of Southern California, I can tell you a spark could set off a fire.) 

There are many many reasons why people who work with ammo draw clear distinctions between copper-jacketed bullets and steel-jacketed bullets.