Walker Bullet Article in KennedysandKing

[Benjamin Cole]

https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/walker-bullet-ce-573-is-it-real

Tom Gram and I put together a deep dig on the Walker Bullet, which was handled and inscribed by four Dallas Police Department officers on April 10, 1963, and identified as "steel jacketed."

The Walker Bullet is a reminder of the quality of "evidence" in the JFKA, and how government investigations can be run, especially when there is no defense counsel present. 

[James DiEugenio]

Thanks for this Ben and Tom.

Some very pertinent points are raised.

BTW, if it was a steel bullet, does that not eliminate Oswald?

[Benjamin Cole]

57 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Thanks for this Ben and Tom.

Some very pertinent points are raised.

BTW, if it was a steel bullet, does that not eliminate Oswald?

James D.--

IMHO---

If somebody was "handling" LHO that night, they may have also provided him with a 30.06 rifle (a standard hunting rifle of the time) and steel-jacketed bullets, both of which were cheaply sold as military surplus, and also an automobile ride. The 30.06 could even be a "throwaway rifle." 

The official story-line of LHO riding across town on a bus April 10, 1963 toting an M-C rifle (or at least a long package) and no one seeing him has always been weak.

The local TV stations and papers the next day (April 11) blared about the shooting, and there was even some national coverage. Despite media coverage, not one witness came forward to say they saw a man on the bus near Turtle Creek with a long package, on the night of April 10. 

The official story is also that LHO immediately buried his M-C rifle after the Walker shooting...and then, presumably, returned at a later date, also by bus, and unearthed the rifle, and then again rode across town, again by bus, back home. 

More interesting, and as widely reported by the JFKA community, two automobiles quickly left the scene after the Walker shot, and occupants of neither vehicle ever reported the gunshot to police. 

IMHO--

1. The Walker shot was staged by General Walker himself. Hence, the Walker Bullet being found neatly between bundles of paper, not embedded in a bundle of paper.  

2. LHO was being handled that night, and took an intentionally missed potshot at General Walker with a provided 30.06 rifle and a steel-jacketed bullet. This tested LHO's nerve and willingness to engage in such an op. The handlers bundled LHO into the vehicles and left after the shooting. This also built up LHO's confidence in his handlers, that they had official permission to stage an op, and could pull it off. 

Just IMHO....

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2023 by Benjamin Cole

[Tom Gram]

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Thanks for this Ben and Tom.

Some very pertinent points are raised.

BTW, if it was a steel bullet, does that not eliminate Oswald?

Also, even if we’re assuming that Oswald only had access to the MC, apparently there was steel jacketed MC hunting ammo available in the United States: 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62263#relPageId=77

The FBI “investigation” into the Walker bullet ordeal has to be one of the hands down worst FBI sub-inquiries of the entire assassination investigation. The FBI avoided every imaginable opportunity to resolve conflicting stories about the bullet - even while under explicit orders from the WC to resolve conflicting stories about the bullet. The FBI allegedly failed to: 1) interview Ira Van Cleave about the bullet (this is a hell of a lot worse than it sounds); 2) show the actual bullet to anyone besides Norvell (this one’s the WC’s fault) 3) ask anyone besides Norvell for even a basic description of what they remembered; 4) ask any one of Norvell, Tucker, Van Cleave or McElroy why they described the bullet as steel-jacketed in their reports; 5) reinterview McElroy, Brown and Tucker to find out who actually handled the bullet and when - even after calling this out as an unresolved problem in their investigative report to the WC; 6) show the bullet to Day and ask him about his alleged “Day” and a cross marking; 7) ask Brown, Day, or anyone else in the CSSS why they (allegedly) never photographed the bullet…I could go on. 

Basically, the evidence very strongly suggests, if not outright proves, that there was a deliberate effort by the FBI to avoid putting on the record anything about the Walker bullet that could potentially cast doubt on Oswald’s guilt. I don’t think there’s any other way to spin it.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Tom Gram

[Ron Bulman]

Sorry, I still beg to differ.  LHO toting a gun on a bus, maybe wrapped in a raincoat per Marina?  LHO buried the gun on the way back?  With his hands?  Did he have a shovel under the raincoat too?

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Tom Gram said:

Also, even if we’re assuming that Oswald only had access to the MC, apparently there was steel jacketed MC hunting ammo available in the United States: 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62263#relPageId=77

The FBI “investigation” into the Walker bullet ordeal has to be one of the hands down worst FBI sub-inquiries of the entire assassination investigation. The FBI avoided every imaginable opportunity to resolve conflicting stories about the bullet - even while under explicit orders from the WC to resolve conflicting stories about the bullet. The FBI allegedly failed to: 1) interview Ira Van Cleave about the bullet (this is a hell of a lot worse than it sounds); 2) show the actual bullet to anyone besides Norvell (this one’s the WC’s fault) 3) ask anyone besides Norvell for even a basic description of what they remembered; 4) ask any one of Norvell, Tucker, Van Cleave or McElroy why they described the bullet as steel-jacketed in their reports; 5) reinterview McElroy, Brown and Tucker to find out who actually handled the bullet and when - even after calling this out as an unresolved problem in their investigative report to the WC; 6) show the bullet to Day and ask him about his alleged “Day” and a cross marking; 7) ask Brown, Day, or anyone else in the CSSS why they (allegedly) never photographed the bullet…I could go on. 

Basically, the evidence very strongly suggests, if not outright proves, that there was a deliberate effort by the FBI to avoid putting on the record anything about the Walker bullet that could potentially cast doubt on Oswald’s guilt. I don’t think there’s any other way to spin it.

Tom-

Yes, there were amounts of steel-jacketed 6.50 bullets manufactured in Europe, perhaps due to wartime copper shortages. Obviously, the Walker Bullet did not have a soft-nose hunter's tip. 

In any event, CE573 ---the Warren's Commission version of Walker Bullet---is a definite brother bullet to CE399, that is, a Western ammo copper-jacketed 6.5, and instantly recognizable as such.  No reasonable observer would conflate CE399 or CE573 with steel-jacketed bullets.

In later decades, low-budget steel-jacketed ammo has shown up in the US from Russia and Eastern European nations, as steel is cheaper than copper. The steel jackets to this day remain a marginal product in the US, and are held in low regard by some. 

[Benjamin Cole]

Which one looks "steel-Jacketed" to you? 

According to the WC, four different Dallas Police Department detectives and patrolmen inscribed CE573 (marked their initials) on April 10 1963, and described it as "steel jacketed." 

But no one ever called CE399 "steel-jacketed."  

interesting. 

 

[Steve Roe]

14 hours ago, Tom Gram said:

Also, even if we’re assuming that Oswald only had access to the MC, apparently there was steel jacketed MC hunting ammo available in the United States: 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62263#relPageId=77

The FBI “investigation” into the Walker bullet ordeal has to be one of the hands down worst FBI sub-inquiries of the entire assassination investigation. The FBI avoided every imaginable opportunity to resolve conflicting stories about the bullet - even while under explicit orders from the WC to resolve conflicting stories about the bullet. The FBI allegedly failed to: 1) interview Ira Van Cleave about the bullet (this is a hell of a lot worse than it sounds); 2) show the actual bullet to anyone besides Norvell (this one’s the WC’s fault) 3) ask anyone besides Norvell for even a basic description of what they remembered; 4) ask any one of Norvell, Tucker, Van Cleave or McElroy why they described the bullet as steel-jacketed in their reports; 5) reinterview McElroy, Brown and Tucker to find out who actually handled the bullet and when - even after calling this out as an unresolved problem in their investigative report to the WC; 6) show the bullet to Day and ask him about his alleged “Day” and a cross marking; 7) ask Brown, Day, or anyone else in the CSSS why they (allegedly) never photographed the bullet…I could go on. 

Basically, the evidence very strongly suggests, if not outright proves, that there was a deliberate effort by the FBI to avoid putting on the record anything about the Walker bullet that could potentially cast doubt on Oswald’s guilt. I don’t think there’s any other way to spin it.

Tom let's set the record straight. Do you actually believe that CE573 is a switcheroo bullet? I'm assuming you agree with everything said in that article as proof. Ben said it was a switcheroo, do you? 

I'm not going to argue your article on EF, but only seeking for clarification on your position before I address this "article" later. I don't want to misquote or put words in your mouth. State your position clearly whether or not CE573 was, or was not, the bullet found in the Walker home. 

Thank you. 

[Jonathan Cohen]

16 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

IMHO--

1. The Walker shot was staged by General Walker himself. Hence, the Walker Bullet being found neatly between bundles of paper, not embedded in a bundle of paper.  

2. LHO was being handled that night, and took an intentionally missed potshot at General Walker with a provided 30.06 rifle and a steel-jacketed bullet. This tested LHO's nerve and willingness to engage in such an op. The handlers bundled LHO into the vehicles and left after the shooting. This also built up LHO's confidence in his handlers, that they had official permission to stage an op, and could pull it off. 

Ludicrous, without so much as a hint of evidence to support it.

[James DiEugenio]

Uh Jonathan, did you read where the bullet ended up?

That is ludicrous,

Sometimes I think you write these replies before you read anything.

[James DiEugenio]

15 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Sorry, I still beg to differ.  LHO toting a gun on a bus, maybe wrapped in a raincoat per Marina?  LHO buried the gun on the way back?  With his hands?  Did he have a shovel under the raincoat too?

I agree that the whole WC story on this is ridiculous, especially burying the gun is wild.

[Steve Thomas]

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

I agree that the whole WC story on this is ridiculous, especially burying the gun is wild.

If Oswald took the rifle out of the house on Sunday, and the shooting wasn't until Wednesday, where was it in the meantime?

Steve Thomas

[Paul Cummings]

16 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Sorry, I still beg to differ.  LHO toting a gun on a bus, maybe wrapped in a raincoat per Marina?  LHO buried the gun on the way back?  With his hands?  Did he have a shovel under the raincoat too?

Another bus Oswald didn't take. Once, twice, three times a rider and I love the transit system. (Commodores)

Edited May 24, 2023 by Paul Cummings

[Benjamin Cole]

5 hours ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

Ludicrous, without so much as a hint of evidence to support it.

JC-

 

1. Actually, according to an FBI report, a DPD patrolman said he found the Walker Bullet after he lifted up one bundle of paper (see photograph at KandK) and the bullet was resting atop the bundle underneath it. That is evidence as provided by a police-witness who purported to have found the bullet. 

That sure seems odd to me. If the patrolman's account is an accurate statement, then a reasonable suspicion is the Walker Bullet was planted. 

2. Admittedly, it is speculative whether LHO acted alone, had confederates or handlers, or was even at the Walker residence on April 10, 1963. JD asked me if the Walker Bullet was in fact a steel-jacketed bullet (which probably it was), then does that exonerate LHO of the Walker shooting?

IMHO, LHO is still a suspect, due to the photographs found in his possession of the Walker home and approaches. The authenticity of the Walker letter is uncertain. 

The big take-away from the KandK article is that four DPD officers inscribed and initialed the Walker bullet, and described it as steel-jacketed, a relatively uncommon type of bullet (copper-jacketing by far being the standard). 

Chief Curry obviously believed the Walker Bullet to be steel-jacketed.

No evidence can be found that anyone ever thought the Walker Bullet was copper-jacketed---no police reports, photographs, lab reports. All the evidence we have says the Walker Bullet was steel-jacketed. Additionally, Lt. Day's mark on the CE573 cannot be found. 

The WC/FBI made no effort to interview the best witnesses on the Walker bullet, and accepted implausible explanations why the Walker Bullet was described by many official witnesses in official reports as steel-jacketed, and by nobody as copper-jacketed. 

You see the photos of CE573 and CE399 above. Which one looks steel-jacketed to you? 

To answer a question posed here, is CE573 the true Walker Bullet found on April 10, 1963?

I would bet 10-to-one odds it is not. 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2023 by Benjamin Cole

[Bob Ness]

19 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

JC-

 

1. Actually, according to an FBI report, a DPD patrolman said he found the Walker Bullet after he lifted up one bundle of paper (see photograph at KandK) and the bullet was resting atop the bundle underneath it. That is evidence as provided by a police-witness who purported to have found the bullet. 

That sure seems odd to me. If the patrolman's account is an accurate statement, then a reasonable suspicion is the Walker Bullet was planted. 

2. Admittedly, it is speculative whether LHO acted alone, had confederates or handlers, or was even at the Walker residence on April 10, 1963. JD asked me if the Walker Bullet was in fact a steel-jacketed bullet (which probably it was), then does that exonerate LHO of the Walker shooting?

IMHO, LHO is still a suspect, due to the photographs found in his possession of the Walker home and approaches. The authenticity of the Walker letter is uncertain. 

The big take-away from the KandK article is that four DPD officers inscribed and initialed the Walker bullet, and described it as steel-jacketed, a relatively uncommon type of bullet (copper-jacketing by far being the standard). 

Chief Curry obviously believed the Walker Bullet to be steel-jacketed.

No evidence can be found that anyone ever thought the Walker Bullet was copper-jacketed---no police reports, photographs, lab reports. All the evidence we have says the Walker Bullet was steel-jacketed. Additionally, Lt. Day's mark on the CE573 cannot be found. 

The WC/FBI made no effort to interview the best witnesses on the Walker bullet, and accepted implausible explanations why the Walker Bullet was described by many official witnesses in official reports as steel-jacketed, and by nobody as copper-jacketed. 

You see the photos of CE573 and CE399 above. Which one looks steel-jacketed to you? 

To answer a question posed here, is CE573 the true Walker Bullet found on April 10, 1963?

I would bet 10-to-one odds it is not. 

 

 

Kudos to you and @Tom Gram for the excellent write up! Quite interesting.

I'll be looking for the response from the usual suspects to see what they have to say. From all appearances it certainly looks very much like the Keystone Kops bit found almost everywhere else.

Someday I plan on writing a transcript of a fictitious courtroom scene wherein the DPD is cross examined on their training on "How to close a door" since that seems to be beyond their skill set in innumerable instances in this case.