Leopoldo and Angel

[Thomas Graves]

Paul,

What makes you think that Hall and Howard "picked up William Seymour" in Dallas when they allegedly "drove back from Mexico" around September 28, 1963?

...

How does it help your theory, anyway, to have William Seymour in Dallas in late September?

...

Celio Castro confirmed in the interview that he and Hall and Howard had stayed at a motel near a highway in Dallas. The description he gives of the motel's location jibes with google maps depiction of 5405 Lawnview Avenue, Dallas, although there is no motel there now, just an empty lot, but you can tell from the street view that something used to be there.

...

All of this leads me to believe that Loran Hall and Larry Howard and Celio Castro did stay at the Lawnview Motel in Dallas from 9/28/63 through 10/3/63. What's intriguing is where they stayed and what they were doing before that. Larry Howard said they stayed at a motel for about ten days, starting on around September 20th, but the motel's records showed that they stayed there for only six days, starting on September 28...

If Hall and Howard and Lee Harvey Oswald were at Odio's on the night of September 25, would Hall and Howard have had enough time to drive Oswald to Mexico City and get back to Dallas by the 28th?

In order to get back to Dallas by the 28th, they certainly couldn't have spent much time in Mexico City supervising / monitoring Oswald, so why even go there for such a short time? Another way of looking at it is why was it so important for them to return to Dallas so quickly?

...

Lastly, Celio Castro is described in the report as being 5' 9" tall and weighing 160 pounds at the time of the interview (9/28/64), and clean shaven as of September, 1963 (sic).

--Tommy

[Tommy's responses in green]

[...]

... Celio was only one of many mercenary buddies in this group related to Interpen and Gerry Patrick Hemming. It could have been any of them.

IT what? The Cuban exile known as "Quarito" or "Wahito"who accompanied Hall and Howard from Los Angeles to Dallas in September could have been any of them?

[...] I thought Loran Hall redeemed Hemming's 30.06 from Dick Hathcock in early November, not September. [...]

See below.

[...]

Most interesting, Tommy, is your question about what they were doing before that Motel stay. Why would guys who had the job of running paramilitary supplies from Los Angeles to Miami on a continual basis stay anywhere for ten full days?

Good question.

[...]

But the ten days [at the motel] that Larry Howard mentioned seems to be an attempt to cover over the trip of driving Lee Harvey Oswald to Mexico City! The Motel records do not verify his story!

Good point. It sure seems that Howard was trying to cover something up, timewise. There's a huge discrepancy between arriving at the motel "around the 20th" but not registering there until the 28th. In this context it should be pointed out that Celio Castro told the FBI on 9/24/64 that while the trio was on its way from Los Angeles to Dallas (starting around September 18th, 1963), the "fun-loving" Loran Hall and Larry Howard decided to spend some time in Ciudad Juarez, Mexico while he waited for them in El Paso (presumably with the weapons-laden trailer).

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=47745&relPageId=149

Paul,

Regarding the timing of "The Unforgivable 30.06 Redemption," the following is from From Weberman's Nodule 13:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/weberman/nodule%2013.htm

When Loran Hall, LAWRENCE JOHN HOWARD and Celio Castro left Los Angeles for Dallas around September 18, 1963, they stopped at the offices of Private Investigator and soldier-of-fortune Dick Hathcock. The FBI:

To: SAC Los Angeles (89-75)

From S.A. Jerome K. Crowe

Date November 23, 1963.

Subject: Assassination of President Kennedy.

Re: Memo of Robert H. Matheson, Jr. dated November 23, 1963.

Richard Hathcock, Allied International Detectives, Suite 310, 6605 Hollywood Blvd. Los Angeles, advised Roy Payne is his associate in the above enterprise. Hathcock advised as follows: He, Hathcock, has known one Dick Whatley for several years. Whatley, to the best of Hathcock's information, currently resides at 3350 NW 18th Terrace Miami, Florida,, Whatley is a male Caucasian.

[...]

Approximately one year ago, JERRY PATRICK, whose true name is JERRY HEMMING, a male Caucasian, approximately 30 to 31, 6' 4", 230 pounds, well built, curly brown hair, handsome, and Lorenzo Pascillo, aka Lorenzo Hall and Skip Hall, a male Caucasian, 35 to 40 years old, 5' 11", 175 to 180 pounds, black hair, mustache, ruddy complexion from Wichita, Kansas, came into Hathcock's office which was then located at 6715 Hollywood Blvd. stating that they were broke and that they knew Dick Whatley, and Whatley had sent them to him. They had with them a set of golf clubs, and a 30-06 Johnson semi-automatic with a Bushnell, variable powered scope. Hathcock loaned them $100 - $50 on each item and it was his understanding that they were to pick up the articles as soon as possible. Hathcock only saw JERRY PATRICK once after that and that was approximately one week later when he came to his office.

Several months ago, since the men did not retrieve the articles, Hathcock sold the golf clubs. On September 18, 1963, Lorenzo Hall came in with $50 and retrieved the rifle. Shortly thereafter Hathcock received a telephone call from JERRY PATRICK, who was then residing at 2450 N.W. North River Drive, Miami, Florida, inquiring as to whether Hathcock still had the rife. Hathcock told him he had given the rifle to Hall for $50 and this seemed to irritate PATRICK to some extent. Since then Hathcock has sent the receipt he received from Hall for the $50 to PATRICK to convince him he had returned the rifle.

On the day Hall retrieved the rifle, he sold him a Bolex Motion Picture Camera with telephoto lens which was then the property of Hathcock. Hall paid by two checks - one drawn on the Citizen's Bank on the account of the Committee to Free Cuba in the amount of $350 and another in the amount of $150 on the account of a resident of La Habra. Hathcock gave Hall back $100.

_____________________________________________________________________________

Remember that photographer Tom Dunkin wrote in a 1967 memorandum that Loran Hall and Bill Seymour arrived in Glades County, Florida, on October 24th, 1963, in a blue 1950-ish Oldsmobile and towing a trailer full of weapons. Dunkin also reported that Hall had a 16 mm Bolex camera with a telephoto lens, which must have been the same camera and lens that he'd bought from Dick Hathcock on September the 18th in Los Angeles.

Tom Dunkin:

"Hall and Seymour, with 1950-ish blue Oldsmobile and a rectangular, wooden, home-build two-wheel trailer appeared at Glades Country [Florida] Democrat Office on Thursday 24 October 1963. Hall at that time unknown to me.

Hall showed me on of what he said were some 20 m-14 rifles, or the Urriaga conversion of M-1's to M-14 type. Hall also said he had, if I recall correctly, some 20,000 rounds of .30 caliber ammunition, plus one 20 millimeter Finnish cannon. He also had a 35mm Honeywell Pentax camera, and a 16mm Bolex, with two 25 mm lenses, one of which he insisted was wide-angle, and a 3-inch telephoto lens, if I recall correctly."

If Hall redeemed Hemming's rifle on the same day that he bought the Bolex, then Hall obviously didn't redeem the rifle in November since Dunkin saw the Bolex on 10/24/63.

--Tommy

Edited April 18, 2014 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Trejo]

Tommy, again, nice work. I stand corrected. I suppose I had in mind the words of Gerry Patrick Hemming to this Forum back in 2007 when he expressed his outrage about Loran Hall keeping Hemming's rifle -- on the day of the JFK murder. So my error placed the events closer together.

The report you provided from the FBI accidentally confirms the report of photographer Tom Dunkin who was documenting these Cuban Raid groups on his own.

Very nice work.

So - let's summarize the results for this morning: Loran Hall, Larry Howard and Celio Castro stayed at the Lawnview Motel in Dallas from 9/28/63 through 10/3/63 -- but where did they stay before that? Larry Howard claimed that they were together in Dallas since 9/20/63 for ten days -- so we have a time gap.

The time gap lets us accept Silvia Odio's story that they were at her doorstep for 20 minutes with Lee Harvey Oswald. The time gap lets us accept Harry Dean's story that they delivered Oswald to Guy Gabaldon in Mexico City by the evening of 9/26/63.

The time gap lets us accept a theory that they returned to Dallas by 9/27/63 to retrieve their trailer of supplies (supplied by Guy Gabaldon and Harry Dean) and a third companion (probably Celio Castro), to continue their gun-running activities, which had become Loran Hall's full time job. It had become at least a part-time job for Larry Howard and Celio Castro (and other Interpen members at other times, e.g. William Seymour).

We must be wary of information about people associated with Interpen, No Name Keys and Gerry Patrick Hemming, because Hemming's policy was always to protect them under a cloud of disinformation.

In any case -- the 10 days that Larry Howard claimed they were in Dallas DOES NOT WASH. The Motel records let us accept a theory that they met Silvia Odio for 20 minutes on 9/25/63 and then drove Lee Harvey Oswald to Mexico City on or about 9/26/63.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edited>

Edited April 8, 2014 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

Paul, if you are referring to my publishing my research on Walker...I did not. I researched a great number of leads and individuals whom I ultimately determined were not relevant to the attack in Dallas. You will find lots of familiar names missing from what I've written. A good amount of the research on the ultra right did make it into AGOG but that was in regard to a different crime and Walker was not included there either. That focused on the Swift network, the NSRP and peripheral groups such as the Minutemen and the WK-KKK. I did pick up a lot of varied information on Walker from sources in Dallas, including certain things on his personal life and habits that I don't feel compelled to share either.

You won't find Walker in my works, you won't find...a number of other figures that appear frequently elsewhere and whom other researchers find compelling. Their absence simply reflects my analysis. Actually if you look in the preface and introduction I give some of my selection criteria but that's about the size of it.

-- Larry

Well, Larry, what's interesting to me is that General Edwin Walker was named in the Warren Commission volumes more than five hundred times.

He was a person of interest to the FBI during the Warren hearings. He was not a person of interest for the HSCA, but I consider that an error by the HSCA.

The connections between General Edwin Walker and Loran Hall (perhaps "Leopoldo") and Larry Howard (perhaps "Angelo") became known only after the Warren hearings, through the struggles of NOLA DA Jim Garrison.

Oddly, Garrison's lead was abandoned by the HSCA. Gaeton Fonzi failed to pursue it.

Today the connections between General Walker and Lee Harvey Oswald are best explored in the 90 boxes of personal papers belonging to Edwin Walker, now available at UT Austin.

There is so much that the Warren Commission and the HSCA missed.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<bumped>

Edited April 8, 2014 by Paul Trejo

[Thomas Graves]

Tommy, again, nice work. I stand corrected. I suppose I had in mind the words of Gerry Patrick Hemming to this Forum back in 2007 when he expressed his outrage about Loran Hall keeping Hemming's rifle -- on the day of the JFK murder. So my error placed the events closer together.

The report you provided from the FBI accidentally confirms the report of photographer Tom Dunkin who was documenting these Cuban Raid groups on his own.

Very nice work.

So - let's summarize the results for this morning: Loran Hall, Larry Howard and Celio Castro stayed at the Lawnview Motel in Dallas from 9/28/63 through 10/3/63 -- but where did they stay before that? Larry Howard claimed that they were together in Dallas since 9/20/63 for ten days -- so we have a time gap.

The time gap lets us accept Silvia Odio's story that they were at her doorstep for 20 minutes with Lee Harvey Oswald. The time gap lets us accept Harry Dean's story that they delivered Oswald to Guy Gabaldon in Mexico City by the evening of 9/26/63.

The time gap lets us accept a theory that they returned to Dallas by 9/27/63 to retrieve their trailer of supplies (supplied by Guy Gabaldon and Harry Dean) and a third companion (probably Celio Castro), to continue their gun-running activities, which had become Loran Hall's full time job. It had become at least a part-time job for Larry Howard and Celio Castro (and other Interpen members at other times, e.g. William Seymour).

We must be wary of information about people associated with Interpen, No Name Keys and Gerry Patrick Hemming, because Hemming's policy was always to protect them under a cloud of disinformation.

In any case -- the 10 days that Larry Howard claimed they were in Dallas DOES NOT WASH. The Motel records let us accept a theory that they met Silvia Odio for 20 minutes on 9/25/63 and then drove Lee Harvey Oswald to Mexico City on or about 9/26/63.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edited>

Paul,

You may have missed this in my earlier post, so I reiterate:

Paul Trejo: But the ten days [at the motel in Dallas] that Larry Howard mentioned seems to be an attempt to cover over the trip of driving Lee Harvey Oswald to Mexico City! The Motel records do not verify his story!

Tommy: Good point. It sure seems that Howard was trying to cover something up, timewise. There's a huge discrepancy between arriving at the motel "around the 20th" but not registering there until the 28th. In this context it should be pointed out that Celio Castro told the FBI on 9/24/64 that while the trio was on its way from Los Angeles to Dallas (starting around September 18th, 1963), the "fun-loving" Loran Hall and Larry Howard decided to spend some time in Ciudad Juarez, Mexico while he waited for them in El Paso (presumably with the weapons-laden trailer).

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=47745&relPageId=149

--Tommy

PS Mixing "fun" in Juarez with towing a trailer full of weapons sounds like a strange (and implausible) combination of activities to me.

Regardless, Oswald was alleged to have crossed the border at Laredo on the afternoon of 9/26/63, and to have taken a bus from there to Mexico City.

And as you know, Ciudad Juarez and Laredo are several hundred miles apart...

Edited April 9, 2014 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Trejo]

...It sure seems that Howard was trying to cover something up, timewise. There's a huge discrepancy between arriving at the motel "around the 20th" but not registering there until the 28th. In this context it should be pointed out that Celio Castro told the FBI on 9/24/64 that while the trio was on its way from Los Angeles to Dallas (starting around September 18th, 1963), the "fun-loving" Loran Hall and Larry Howard decided to spend some time in Ciudad Juarez, Mexico while he waited for them in El Paso (presumably with the weapons-laden trailer).

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=47745&relPageId=149

--Tommy

PS Mixing "fun" in Juarez with towing a trailer full of weapons sounds like a strange (and implausible) combination of activities to me.

Regardless, Oswald was alleged to have crossed the border at Laredo on the afternoon of 9/26/63, and to have taken a bus from there to Mexico City.

And as you know, Ciudad Juarez and Laredo are several hundred miles apart...

Wow, Tommy, did you see what I think I saw?

"Quarito," who was Larry Howard's alibi against the sworn testimony of Silvia Odio (claiming that "Leopoldo" and "Angelo" were at her doorstep with Lee Harvey Oswald during the final week of September 1963) has given us a new twist on that alibi!

Quarito said that while Loran, Larry and he were on the road from Los Angeles to Dallas (starting ~9/18/63) Loran and Larry decided to drop him off in El Paso!

This, then, would free Loran and Larry to scurry to New Orleans to pick up Lee Harvey Oswald, and then meet SIlvia Odio at her doorstep on 9/25/63, and then deposit Oswald in Mexico City (perhaps to meet Gabaldon on the 26th or 27th) and then return to Texas in time to pick up Quarito and the trailer and then register with the Lawnview Motel in Dallas on 9/28/63 (as the register clearly shows).

These new pieces make the story of Silvia Odio more plausible -- and they also make the story of Harry Dean more plausible.

It's too early to draw conclusions, but I want to thank you again for your digging up these FBI artifacts about Quarito.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited April 9, 2014 by Paul Trejo

[Thomas Graves]

...It sure seems that Howard was trying to cover something up, timewise. There's a huge discrepancy between arriving at the motel "around the 20th" but not registering there until the 28th. In this context it should be pointed out that Celio Castro told the FBI on 9/24/64 that while the trio was on its way from Los Angeles to Dallas (starting around September 18th, 1963), the "fun-loving" Loran Hall and Larry Howard decided to spend some time in Ciudad Juarez, Mexico while he waited for them in El Paso (presumably with the weapons-laden trailer).

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=47745&relPageId=149

--Tommy

PS Mixing "fun" in Juarez with towing a trailer full of weapons sounds like a strange (and implausible) combination of activities to me.

Regardless, Oswald was alleged to have crossed the border at Laredo on the afternoon of 9/26/63, and to have taken a bus from there to Mexico City.

And as you know, Ciudad Juarez and Laredo are several hundred miles apart...

Wow, Tommy, did you see what I think I saw?

"Quarito," who was Larry Howard's alibi against the sworn testimony of Silvia Odio (claiming that "Leopoldo" and "Angelo" were at her doorstep with Lee Harvey Oswald during the final week of September 1963) has given us a new twist on that alibi!

Quarito said that while Loran, Larry and he were on the road from Los Angeles to Dallas (starting ~9/18/63) Loran and Larry decided to drop him off in El Paso!

This, then, would free Loran and Larry to scurry to New Orleans to pick up Lee Harvey Oswald, and then meet SIlvia Odio at her doorstep on 9/25/63, and then deposit Oswald in Mexico City (perhaps to meet Gabaldon on the 26th or 27th) and then return to Texas in time to pick up Quarito and the trailer and then register with the Lawnview Motel in Dallas on 9/28/63 (as the register clearly shows).

These new pieces make the story of Silvia Odio more plausible -- and they also make the story of Harry Dean more plausible.

It's too early to draw conclusions, but I want to thank you again for your digging up these FBI artifacts about Quarito.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Paul,

Would you really have Hall and Howard drive all the way from El Paso, Texas, to New Orleans, Louisiana, to "pick up" Oswald on the 24th or 25th, and then take him to Dallas for the "Odio Incident" on 9/25/63, and then take him to Mexico City, arriving there on the 26th "or the 27th?"

Really?

Never mind the fact that Hall and Howard have to go back to El Paso to retrieve the trailer and Hemming's rifle and their compatriot Celio Castro at some point, and they also have to be at the Lawnview Motel in Dallas on the 28th...

Way too much running around and not enough time, IMHO.

--Tommy

Edited April 9, 2014 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Trejo]

Paul,

Would you really have Hall and Howard drive all the way from El Paso, Texas, to New Orleans, Louisiana, to "pick up" Oswald on the 24th or 25th, and then take him to Dallas for the "Odio Incident" on 9/25/63, and then take him to Mexico City, arriving there on the 26th "or the 27th?"

Really?

Never mind the fact that Hall and Howard have to go back to El Paso to retrieve the trailer and Hemming's rifle and their compatriot Celio Castro at some point, and they also have to be at the Lawnview Motel in Dallas on the 28th...

Way too much running around and not enough time, IMHO.

--Tommy

Tommy, we can deal with those details, IMHO, once we clarify: (1) the time factor; and (2) the variance in their stories. Loran Hall, Larry Howard and Quarito all tell different stories -- and this plays in our favor.

In my opinion, because all three players tell three different stories, we are justified in picking and choosing the most rational details for a rational theory. There remain facts in their stories -- facts that we can verify -- so we can attempt (like paleontologists) to reassemble the reality.

For example -- why El Paso? It might have been ANY Texas town. What is important in Quarito's story is not El Paso (unless he had documented proof it was El Paso), rather, what is important is this: that Loran Hall and Larry Howard went to Mexico without Quarito, who remained in Texas.

That's critical. What actual part of Mexico is debatable. What city in Texas he was left in is debatable. But the absolutely critical fact for our purposes is that Quarito is admitting a vital fact -- that Loran and Larry went to Mexico without Quarito, who remained in Texas.

Here is plausible Scenario "A" -- (i) Hall and Howard left Quarito and their trailer in Dallas on 9/20/63 as they went to New Orleans for Lee Harvey Oswald; (ii) Hall and Howard took Oswald to Mexico City; (iii) Hall and Howard returned to Dallas where they met Quarito with their trailer; (iv) all three checked into the Lawnview Motel by 9/28/63; and (v) Quarito invented a lie about El Paso and Juarez to cover up the actual facts.

Here is plausible Scenario "B" -- (i) Hall and Howard left Quarito and the trailer in El Paso on 9/20/63 as they went to New Orleans for Lee Harvey Oswald; (ii) Quarito got other transportation to Dallas with the trailer; (iii) Hall and Howard took Oswald to Mexico City; (iv) Hall and Howard returned to Dallas where they met Quarito with their trailer; (v) all three checked into the Lawnview Motel by 9/28/63; and (vi) Quarito only had to lie about Juarez.

What is key, IMHO, is that Quarito is offering details that Larry Howard did not volunteer -- and so suggests that one (or both) of them held back important data. The implication is that the trip to Mexico was a deep, dark secret for Larry Howard.

Quarito knew it was a secret, but he was facing the FBI, so he said something about it while playing as dumb as possible. That was easy, because Quarito never actually saw the Mexican town that Hall and Howard visited -- he only heard about it -- and they could have lied to him (and probably did).

It is plausible that Hall and Howard told Quarito they were going to Juarez, in order to keep him in the dark. Yet this cannot explain why Larry Howard would neglect to mention anything about a trip to Mexico to the FBI -- and instead told the FBI that the trio were in Dallas from 9/20/63 through 10/03/63.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edited>

Edited April 14, 2014 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

One of the most intriguing histories about Loran Hall (possibly Leopoldo) and Larry Howard (possibly Angelo) was about Hall's arrest in Dallas on 16 October 1963.

During the Jim Garrison hearings, Loran Hall appeared before Jim Garrison, and later gave an interview to Harold Weisberg who formatted the story for the National Enquirer (September 1968).

Here is how Jim Garrison's files reported the story: Loran Hall was stopped in his car in Dallas for having a concealed license plate and was then arrested along with William Seymour for possession of dangerous drugs (pep pills in their glove compartment).

From the Dallas jailhouse, Loran Hall called General Walker, who then called attorney Robert Morris (both members of the Dallas John Birch Society) who promptly obtained $5,000 bond to release the two men. Hall and Seymour spent that night at a local YMCA.

The charges were dropped on the condition that the two men exit Dallas within 24 hours.

Loran Hall then said the following morning -- taking advantage of his 24 hour notice, he attended a Bircher meeing in Lester Logue's Dallas office. In that meeting, several right-wing activists gathered to talk about politics. Hall made his regular pitch for funds and support for Cuba Raid groups, La Sambra, Interpen and others. At this meeting, said Loran Hall, one of those present offered Loran Hall $50,000 to murder JFK.

According to Loran Hall, he totally rejected the offer, and said the speaker was out of line. Lester Logue, also, chimed in to say the speaker was out of line. Loran Hall told those assembled that he would break the law only to the point of breaking the US Neutrality Act with regard to Cuba -- but beyond that line he would not cross.

To Harold Weisberg, Loran Hall added, "anyway I say this: Lester Logue had nothing to do with it [JFK's death]." In other words, Loran Hall claimed to have special knowledge about who wasn't (and so perhaps who was) directly involved in the JFK murder.

In the corresponding National Enquirer article, Loran Hall claimed that "radical right-wingers", including "Ex-military officers" made that offer of $50,000.

Significantly, that statement directly contradicted Loran Halls' intereview in 29 December 1967 on Channel 7 TV News program in Los Angeles at 11pm, where he claimed that "liberals" had JFK murdered because JFK was moving towards "the center".

Hall also complained in that article that he was arrested on 16 October 1963 only to put his name on record as having been in Dallas, so that when the JFK was murdered, he could be parlayed as a possible patsy.

All this is interesting because one of the most prevalent ideological themes of the JFK assassination was the myth that the left-wing (liberals, Communists) murdered JFK using Lee Harvey Oswald. The notion that Oswald was a supporter of Communist Fidel Castro was accepted even by the Warren Commission, even though the evidence against it was significant (e.g. the FPCC organization in New Orleans headed by Oswald had only one member -- Oswald himself).

The original intent of the JFK plotters, I suspect, was to inspire the USA to invade Cuba and kill Fidel Castro. That part of the JFK plot failed, according to me.

In any case, the role played by Loran Hall in the JFK murder becomes increasingly suspicious the more we delve into it. You can read that entire National Enquirer article at this URL: [http://www.pet880.com/images/19680903_Natl_Enquirer_NB.pdf]

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited April 14, 2014 by Paul Trejo

[Thomas Graves]

...As for the room and board of the traveling trio, if you find solid evidence, that would be pleasantly surprising...

Paul,

Here it is:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=1020151

--Tommy

PS Regarding the Oldsmobile and the trailer, photographer Tom Dunkin wrote this in his1967 memorandum about the Interpen bust at No Name Key:

"Hall and Seymour, with 1950-ish blue Oldsmobile and a rectangular, wooden, home-build two-wheel trailer appeared at Glades Country [Florida] Democrat Office on Thursday 24 October 1963. Hall at that time unknown to me."

http://cuban-exile.com/doc_076-100/doc0090.html

FWIW, I did a little "research" on e-bay, and it looks like the license plate was from Florida circa 1960.

Tommy, nice work.

We have documented evidence that Loran Hall was in Dallas again on 28 September 1963, with two others. Who were they? We don't know, but the Motel clerk thought they were Americans -- or perhaps the Latino-looking one was Larry Howard (a Mexican-American) and Loran Hall was one of the American-looking ones. It depends on the eye of the beholder.

The pieces can still fit. Hall and Howard could have been with Lee Harvey Oswald at the doorstep of Silvia Odio on 25 September 1963, drove down to Mexico that same night (using money they got from Gabaldon some days earlier, when they got their paramilitary supplies).

Their trailer load of supplies from Harry Dean and Guy Gabladon was not with them at that time (otherwise Silvia Odio would have noticed it). Probably it was with Lester Logue or Robert Morris in Dallas, or with some other JBS member.

After dropping Oswald off at DACA in Mexico City late on 26 September 1963 (or early on 27 September 1963) they drove back to Dallas, and picked up WIlliam Seymour, as well as their trailer load of paramilitary supplies.

Then, on 28 September 1963, they rented these Motel rooms. It was definitely Loran Hall, because of the address he gave them (Monterey Park, California) as well as the phone calls that he made (including to Lester Logue and Robert Morris in Dallas).

We have ample outside evidence linking Loran Hall with Robert Morris (who was one of Edwin Walker's lawyers, helping to sue US newspapers for libel against Walker -- for telling the truth about Walker during the riots at Ole Miss on 30 September 1962).

We also have ample outside evidence linking Loran Hall with Lester Logue.

So -- not only do we have Loran Hall and Larry Howard definitely on the road together in Dallas during the final week of September 1963, the times still fit for us to postulate their interaction with Lee Harvey Oswald that week, in a side-trip to Mexico City. They evidently left Oswald in Mexico, and Oswald took the bus back to the USA.

Nice work, Tommy.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Paul,

What makes you think that Hall and Howard "picked up William Seymour" in Dallas when they allegedly "drove back from Mexico" around September 28, 1963?

What evidence do you have that Seymour was even in Dallas around that period of time, other that Hall's claim in his 16th of September, 1964, FBI interview in which he allegedly said that he and Howard and Seymour had visited Silvia Odio in late September, which was denied by Howard and Seymour, and retracted by Hall himself only four days later?

Most importantly, Seymour was able to prove that he wasn't there.

He was interviewed by the FBI and they established that he had been working for Beach Welding and Supplies Company, Miami Beach, Florida at the time when it was suggested that he had visited Silvia Odio.

Here is the FBI report:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?absPageId=515428

How does it help your theory, anyway, to have William Seymour in Dallas in late September?

Doesn't it make more sense to believe what Hall and several other people including the Cuban exile Celio Sergio Castro Alba have said over the years -- that Hall and Howard (both with full beards), and Celio Castro (without beard and known as "Quarito" or "Wahito") rendezvoused in Los Angeles around September 11, raised some supplies, redeemed Hemming's 30.06 from Dick Hathcock on September the 18th, and then towed a trailer loaded with medical supplies and weapons to Dallas the next day, at which point they either drove LHO to Mexico City, as you claim, or slept in their car and / or stayed at the Dallas YMCA until they rented a room at the Lawnview Motel on September the 28th, staying at said motel through October the 3rd, at which time they left the trailer full of weapons in Dallas (perhaps so that John Thomas Masen could convert the rifles to "full automatic") and then went back to Florida, perhaps by bus. But if they did go back to Florida by bus, why did they do that? Why didn't they drive Hall's car, instead?

It's well known that Hall was arrested a couple of weeks later in Dallas for possessing pep pills, and that Seymour was detained during the incident, but that was later, on October 16th or 17th, after Hall and Seymour had driven back to Dallas from Florida, in a bluish, 1950-ish Oldsmobile, perhaps, to retrieve the trailer with its precious cargo.

I think it was Hall and Howard who both appeared to be "American" to the manager of the Lawnview Hotel on September 28, because they both had full beards, and it's reasonable to assume that Celio Sergio Castro Alba appeared to be "Latin" to her because he was clean-shaven compared to Hall and Howard, and he must have spoken Spanish to Howard and Hall (whereas they spoke English to each other) because he (Castro) spoke very little English. Regarding Celio Castro's skin color, we know that at least Castro wasn't light complected because he was described by the FBI as having a "medium" complexion.

Celio Castro confirmed in the interview that he and Hall and Howard had stayed at a motel near a highway in Dallas. The description he gives of the motel's location jibes with google maps depiction of 5405 Lawnview Avenue, Dallas, although there is no motel there now, just an empty lot, but you can tell from the street view that something used to be there.

Rotate the "street view" about 180 degrees and you can see the (iron) bridge in the distance which I think Castro was referring to. Also note from the google map that 5405 Lawnview Avenue is just across the highway from Tenison Hill Golf Course and is also near what Larry Howard described as a "Memorial Park" (cemetary).

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=47745&relPageId=148

All of this leads me to believe that Loran Hall and Larry Howard and Celio Castro did stay at the Lawnview Motel in Dallas from 9/28/63 through 10/3/63. What's intriguing is where they stayed and what they were doing before that. Larry Howard said they stayed at a motel for about ten days, starting on around September 20th, but the motel's records showed that they stayed there for only six days, starting on September 28...

If Hall and Howard and Lee Harvey Oswald were at Odio's on the night of September 25, would Hall and Howard have had enough time to drive Oswald to Mexico City and get back to Dallas by the 28th?

In order to get back to Dallas by the 28th, they certainly couldn't have spent much time in Mexico City supervising / monitoring Oswald, so why even go there for such a short time? Another way of looking at it is why was it so important for them to return to Dallas so quickly?

I found four photos on Flickr of the empty lot and old signs of the Lawnview Motel:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/crowt59/559082011/in/photostream/

FWIW, the FBI report says they towed the trailer to Dallas with Hall's black 1956 Pontiac.

And, interestingly, the FBI report contradicts what Hemming told Weberman about Celio Castro. Hemming said he was 71 years old in 1963, but the FBI report says he was born in Cuba on September 28th, 1931, making him exactly 33 years old on 11/28/63.

Lastly, Celio Castro is described in the report as being 5' 9" tall and weighing 160 pounds at the time of the interview (9/28/64), and clean shaven as of September, 1963 (sic).

--Tommy

Edit:

Here are two Florida mugshots, taken several years apart, of a "Cello Castro," (AKA Celio Sergio Castro and Celio Sergio Castro-Alba) and a "Cello Sergio Castro." Note that his birth date is the same on both mugshots, 7/28/31.

http://offender.fdle.state.fl.us/offender/flyer.do?personId=13396

http://mugshots.com/US-Counties/Florida/Monroe-County-FL/Cello-Sergio-Castro.1709294.html

The dates of the photos are confusing, but note that one of the mugshots says he was arrested in 1990 and 2007 for basically the same crime, and the other mugshot says he was arrested in 2002.

Note that it says this imprisoned Celio Sergio Castro was 5'9" and that he was born 7/28/31, exactly two months off from the 9/28/31 reported for our Celio Sergio Castro Alba in his 1964 FBI interview, above.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do;jsessionid=5B9F878BF4AD76D4454FD1D496C14BCE?docId=47745&relPageId=148

The FBI report says that our Celio Castro was 5'9" in 1964 and that he was living in Florida in 1963.

Maybe it's just a coincidence, but note that this guy committed his crimes in Florida.

Hmmm. I think it's our guy, the guy who accompanied Hall and Howard from L.A. to Dallas in September of 1963..

--Tommy

Edit:

Here are two Florida mugshots, taken several years apart, of Celio Sergio Castro Alba. In the first one he's called "Cello Castro," (AKA Celio Sergio Castro and Celio Sergio Castro-Alba) and in the second one he's called a "Cello Sergio Castro." Note that his birth date is the same on both mugshots, 7/28/31.

http://offender.fdle...?personId=13396

http://mugshots.com/...ro.1709294.html

The dates of the photos are confusing, but note that one of the mugshots says he was arrested in 1990 and 2007 for basically the same crime, and the other mugshot says he was arrested in 2002.

Note that it says this imprisoned Celio Sergio Castro was 5'9" and that he was born 7/28/31, exactly two months off from the 9/28/31 reported for our Celio Sergio Castro Alba in his 1964 FBI interview, above.

http://www.maryferre...5&relPageId=148

The FBI report says that our Celio Castro was 5'9" in 1964 and that he was living in Florida in 1963.

Maybe it's just a coincidence, but note that this guy committed his crimes in Florida.

Hmmm. I think it's our guy, the same guy who accompanied Hall and Howard from L.A. to Dallas in September of 1963..

--Tommy

Edited April 15, 2014 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Trejo]

Edit:

Here are two Florida mugshots, taken several years apart, of Celio Sergio Castro Alba. In the first one he's called "Cello Castro," (AKA Celio Sergio Castro and Celio Sergio Castro-Alba) and in the second one he's called a "Cello Sergio Castro." Note that his birth date is the same on both mugshots, 7/28/31.

http://offender.fdle...?personId=13396

http://mugshots.com/...ro.1709294.html

The dates of the photos are confusing, but note that one of the mugshots says he was arrested in 1990 and 2007 for basically the same crime, and the other mugshot says he was arrested in 2002.

Note that it says this imprisoned Celio Sergio Castro was 5'9" and that he was born 7/28/31, exactly two months off from the 9/28/31 reported for our Celio Sergio Castro Alba in his 1964 FBI interview, above.

http://www.maryferre...5&relPageId=148

The FBI report says that our Celio Castro was 5'9" in 1964 and that he was living in Florida in 1963.

Maybe it's just a coincidence, but note that this guy committed his crimes in Florida.

Hmmm. I think it's our guy, the same guy who accompanied Hall and Howard from L.A. to Dallas in September of 1963..

--Tommy

Yes, Tommy, I do believe you've identified CELIO CASTRO, who accompanied Loran Hall (perhaps Leopoldo) and Larry Howard (perhaps Angelo) on their trip from Los Angeles to Florida with a trailer full of military supplies (including drugs) derived from wealthy John Birch Society members, and collected by Guy Gabaldon and Harry Dean.

Notice that the story of CELIO CASTRO within the FBI memo that you also cited, makes possible the dates and the personnel and the Mexico trip that JFK researchers have proposed for Leopoldo and Angelo.

Although Larry Howard claimed that he was not at Silvia Odio's doorstep with Loran Hall and Lee Harvey Oswald, he LIED when he said he was in Texas from 9/20/63 to 10/3/63 with Loran Hall and CELIO CASTRO.

We know Larry Howard LIED because CELIO CASTRO said that Loran and Larry left him, CELIO, in Texas on 9/20/63 while they went on a trip to Mexico!

That is easily enough time for Loran and Larry to travel to New Orleans, pick up Lee Harvey Oswald, and then travel back to Dallas on 9/25/63 to visit Silvia Odio with Lee Harvey Oswald, and then escort Oswald to Mexico City (to meet Guy Gabaldon, who had a house in Mexico City as well as in Southern California -- and a private airplane to shuttle back and forth nearly every week).

Loran Hall and Larry Howard also had enough time to return to Texas (probably Dallas) pick up CELIO CASTRO and their trailer of supplies, and check into the Lawnview Motel on 9/28/63, for which we have documented evidence.

CELIO CASTRO proves that Larry Howard totally LIED. Loran Hall admitted he totally LIED when William Seymour refused to back his first story to the FBI.

CELIO CASTRO, I believe, LIED about the names of the cities -- (Juarez and El Paso). The general locations remain plausible (Mexico and Texas).

That Loran was Leopoldo and Larry was Angelo could not be determined by Silvia Odio, but for some reason the FBI picked up Loran Hall *almost immediately* and for some strange reason Loran Hall confessed to meeting Odio at her doorstep during the final week of September 1963. That is, he confessed AT FIRST. Then he took it back.

IMHO, your work in digging out CELIO CASTRO has the historical effect of strongly confirming the testimony of Silvia Odio, as well as the memoirs of Harry Dean.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited April 15, 2014 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

I want to add, Tommy, that the problem of Leopoldo and Angelo may be the central key to unlocking the mystery of the murder of JFK.

I say this with the backing of Sylvia Meagher and Gaeton Fonzi, who both recognized that Silvia Odio's testimony was concrete PROOF that Lee Harvey Oswald had accomplices, and that the FBI (and Warren Commission) deliberately acted to sweep all that evidence under the rug.

(Gaeton Fonzi adds, that even if somebody else besides Lee Harvey Oswald was at Silvia Odio's doorstep that evening, the very fact that his person was called "Leon Oswald" (where Leon is the Spanish equivalent of "Lee") in the context of remarks about murdering JFK, this all by itself is proof of a conspiracy to make Lee Harvey Oswald into a patsy for a JFK murder.)

What is more, the position of Leopoldo and Angelo evokes connections from within Cuban Exile paramilitary groups (e.g. Interpen, La Sambra, DACA, DRE, Alpha 66 and INCA) as well as the CIA (which was a sponsor for each of those groups), as well as fellow travelers Frank Sturgis, David Ferrie, Carlos Bringuier, Guy Bannister, Ed Butler, Clay Shaw and those who were cited by Jim Garrison's investigation.

Besides the whole CIA-Cuban Exile connection, Leopoldo and Angelo are evidently connected in Dallas with Ex-General Edwin Walker, attorney Robert Morris and Lester Logue, all members of the John Birch Society in Dallas, which was also influential among the Dallas Police Department officials and sundry radicals within it.

Leopoldo and Angelo also have a link with the John Birch Society in Southern California, including Harry Dean, Guy Gabaldon and Congressman John Rousselot. These guys got around.

The common link that ties up all these connections (outside the CIA) is apparently the John Birch Society, which was a beacon for right-wing radicals, like Joseph Milteer.

Naturally, also, when we speak of Cuban Exile paramilitary groups, we cannot ignore their financial backers in the Mafia, including Carlos Bringuier, Santos Traficante, Sam Giancana, Johnny Roselli and Charles Nicoletti (whose chauffer was James Files).

It seems to me that the more work we do to dig out the facts behind Leopoldo and Angelo, the closer we'll get to a solution to the JFK murder mystery.

I realize some people are waiting patiently for 2017 when the JFK Act promises to release all Lee Harvey Oswald files still held secret by the FBI and CIA -- but after 50 years of frustration, can we really afford to wait silently?

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited April 15, 2014 by Paul Trejo

[Thomas Graves]

I want to add, Tommy, that the problem of Leopoldo and Angelo may be the central key to unlocking the mystery of the murder of JFK.

I say this with the backing of Sylvia Meagher and Gaeton Fonzi, who both recognized that Silvia Odio's testimony was concrete PROOF that Lee Harvey Oswald had accomplices, and that the FBI (and Warren Commission) deliberately acted to sweep all that evidence under the rug.

(Gaeton Fonzi adds, that even if somebody else besides Lee Harvey Oswald was at Silvia Odio's doorstep that evening, the very fact that his person was called "Leon Oswald" (where Leon is the Spanish equivalent of "Lee") in the context of remarks about murdering JFK, this all by itself is proof of a conspiracy to make Lee Harvey Oswald into a patsy for a JFK murder.)

What is more, the position of Leopoldo and Angelo evokes connections from within Cuban Exile paramilitary groups (e.g. Interpen, La Sambra, DACA, DRE, Alpha 66 and INCA) as well as the CIA (which was a sponsor for each of those groups), as well as fellow travelers Frank Sturgis, David Ferrie, Carlos Bringuier, Guy Bannister, Ed Butler, Clay Shaw and those who were cited by Jim Garrison's investigation.

Besides the whole CIA-Cuban Exile connection, Leopoldo and Angelo are evidently connected in Dallas with Ex-General Edwin Walker, attorney Robert Morris and Lester Logue, all members of the John Birch Society in Dallas, which was also influential among the Dallas Police Department officials and sundry radicals within it.

Leopoldo and Angelo also have a link with the John Birch Society in Southern California, including Harry Dean, Guy Gabaldon and Congressman John Rousselot. These guys got around.

The common link that ties up all these connections (outside the CIA) is apparently the John Birch Society, which was a beacon for right-wing radicals, like Joseph Milteer.

Naturally, also, when we speak of Cuban Exile paramilitary groups, we cannot ignore their financial backers in the Mafia, including Carlos Bringuier, Santos Traficante, Sam Giancana, Johnny Roselli and Charles Nicoletti (whose chauffer was James Files).

It seems to me that the more work we do to dig out the facts behind Leopoldo and Angelo, the closer we'll get to a solution to the JFK murder mystery.

I realize some people are waiting patiently for 2017 when the JFK Act promises to release all Lee Harvey Oswald files still held secret by the FBI and CIA -- but after 50 years of frustration, can we really afford to wait silently?

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Paul,

So when are you going to interview 83-year-old Celio Sergio Castro Alba in prison to fill in the details of what he did in El Paso, Texas, while waiting for Hall and Howard to return from Juarez, Mexico (as he claimed)?

Did Hall and Howard leave the Oldsmobile and the trailer full of weapons with Celio Castro in El Paso, or just the trailer, or neither?

How long did he have to wait for them to return?

Did he stay at a motel in El Paso? At the YMCA? (That's where the young boys and girls were.)

They they leave the weapons with John Thomas Masen, in Dallas, for him to convert to full auto?

How did Hall, Howard, and / or Castro travel from Dallas to Florida? By bus?

Does Celio Castro know to whom the "blue, 1950-ish Oldsmobile" belonged (used by Hall and Seymour to tow the trailer into Glades County, Florida, on October 24, 1963, as reported by Tom Dunkin)?

Was it the same car that Hall, Howard, and Castro had used to tow the trailer from Los Angeles to Dallas?

Does Celio Castro have a bad leg (as Hemming claimed)?

Did he like Lee Harvey Oswald?

--Tommy

Edited April 17, 2014 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Trejo]

Paul,

So when are you going to interview 83-year-old Celio Sergio Castro Alba in prison to fill in the details of what he did in El Paso, Texas, while waiting for Hall and Howard to return from Juarez, Mexico (as he claimed)?

Did Hall and Howard leave the Oldsmobile and the trailer full of weapons with Celio Castro in El Paso, or just the trailer, or neither?

How long did he have to wait for them to return?

Did he stay at a motel in El Paso?

They they leave the weapons with John Thomas Masen, in Dallas, for him to convert to full auto?

How did Hall, Howard, and / or Castro travel from Dallas to Florida? By bus?

Does Celio Castro know to whom the "blue, 1950-ish Oldsmobile" belonged (used by Hall and Seymour to tow the trailer into Glades County, Florida, on October 24, 1963, as reported by Tom Dunkin)?

Was it the same car that Hall, Howard, and Castro had used to tow the trailer from Los Angeles to Dallas?

Does Celio Castro have a bad leg (as Hemming claimed)?

Did he like Lee Harvey Oswald?

--Tommy

Tommy,

It's an intriguing idea -- contacting 83-year-old Celio Sergio Castro Alba in prison.

I'll actually look at some details to gauge the feasibility of it. (I've got an 8-5 regular job, so I can't just pick up and travel to interview people -- I conduct almost all my interviews over telephone and Email -- and that would have to be the case with Celio Castro as well. I'll ask around.)

I doubt many aspects of Celio's story -- and I don't know his politics, so I wonder if he would be honest with me.

For one thing, I believe his story when he says that Hall and Howard left Celio in Texas as they traveled to Mexico. However, I disbelieve when he says the cities were El Paso and Juarez respectively. (I wonder how he'd take my suggestion.)

Also, it's virtually guaranteed that Hall and Howard left the trailer full of weapons with Celio in Texas (in whatever city) for many reasons:

1. Why take a full trailer on a long detour when you have a bodyguard sitting around doing nothing?

2. Celio was probably brought along for this trip specifically because he could stay in Texas and guard the trailer.

3. Silvia Odio saw no trailer attached to the car parked outside her window which she described to the FBI.

As for the car itself, since Hall and Howard were always hard up for money (as I understand it) they would probably not have another car just sitting around for a long detour. They probably used the same car. (That's a separate issue that requires further research.)

As for how long Celio waited for Hall and Howard to return from Mexico -- I think we have some firm guidelines:

i. They were in Texas starting around 9/20/1963, according to Larry Howard

ii. They checked into the Lawnview Model on 9/28/1963, according to the Lawnview management records.

iii. Therefore, the outside limit for his wait would be eight days, approximately.

Eight days is a reasonable amount of time to: (1) get Oswald in New Orleans; (2) meet Silvia Odio in Dallas; (3) deposit Oswald in Mexico City; and (4) return to Dallas to rejoin Celio.

As for where Celio stayed in Texas (in whatever city) -- we know that Celio stayed in the home of Larry Howard when they were in Southern California -- this is probably because Celio only spoke Spanish, and Larry Howard's family was Mexican-American. There is a fair chance, therefore, that Celio stayed at the home of Larry Howard's other relatives or friends in Texas. That could be confirmed, possibly.

We have decent information that Celio had few friends and family himself in California or Texas, since he had just escaped from Communist Cuba, knowing nobody inside the USA. Celio also had no money and no other job than a mercenary, paramilitary fighter.

Celio would have probably been totally dependent on Hall and Howard. According to Harry Dean, Guy Gabaldon gave Loran Hall some money for their trip from New Orleans to Mexico City and back, so perhaps Hall gave Celio some money to survive in Texas while Hall and Howard drove to Mexico. (Or perhaps Hall and Howard gave their Texas connections some money to take care of Celio for a week -- that guess seems more likely to me.)

You ask a good question, Tommy, about Masen's gun shop in Dallas as one possible stop for Celio and the trailer-load of weapons. After all, there was a YMCA in Dallas, which travelers often used as a hostel. (My question would be, how many rifles were in the lot? Also, how many rifles could Masen convert to fully automatic in one week?)

Tommy, I don't know why you asked about bus travel for Loran, Larry and Celio from Dallas to Miami. They had a car and a trailer full of weapons to deliver to mercenary Freedom Fighters in Florida (including Interpen, La Sambra and others)..

You ask whether Celio might know the name of the owner of the old, blue Oldsmobile driven by Hall and Howard in 1963. It's my guess that Celio would not know one Americano from another in those days. (Celio would probably remember if the car they drove on that trip was a blue Oldsmobile.)

It would be interesting to ask about Celio Castro's leg -- if he had a limp (as Hemming claimed).

However, Tommy, regarding Lee Harvey Oswald, we have no information (as far as I know) that Celio ever even met Oswald. Celio would not have seen Oswald during this trip, as it seems laid out today.

Further, my guess is that Celio was selected for this trip (his very first trip with Hall and Howard) because he was a loyal and dependable mercenary soldier who needed a job and could keep his mouth shut

Celio knew almost no Americans and he was flat broke. His country was occupied by the Communists, and he was ready to fight, but he needed support. Celio says he first believed that Hall and Howard were patriotic soldiers. That's why he accepted this gun-running job with them in the first place.

This was not only Celio's frst trip -- it was also his last trip with Hall and Howard. After this trip Celio got the idea that Hall and Howard were goof-offs -- not very patriotic and not very good soldiers.

Why would Celio think that? For one thing, because they interrupted the important work of gun-running to take a joy-ride to Mexico!

I find it easiest to believe that the "Oswald detour" was entirely on a need-to-know basis only. Not one word about Oswald would have been spoken to Celio. (This gave everybody plausible deniability).

Also, it is plausible that Loran Hall and Larry Howard told Celio Castro Alba that they really were going to Juarez, Mexico. So Celio really believed it then and probably still believes it today Why? Because Loran Hall wanted to party, just like he said. But what about this important shipment of guns to the Freedom Fighters?

So, this would explain why Celio would have nothing to say about Lee Harvey Oswald. He probably never laid eyes on Lee Harvey Oswald in his life.

In fact, it is likely that Hall and Howard told Celio nothing at all about anything at all. That would be true to form. That would also explain why Celio never wanted to travel with these two jokers again, anywhere.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited April 17, 2014 by Paul Trejo

[Thomas Graves]

[...]

[...]

Silvia Odio told the Warren Commission in 1964 that although she saw Leopoldo, Angel, and Leon leave in a car, she couldn't describe the car.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=45&relPageId=382

But in 1978, Odio allegedly stated in a deposition for the HSCA that she saw the three men get into a red car.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=1212&relPageId=30

Odio's HSCA deposition is known as Deposition of Silvia Odio, May 2, 1978, House Select Committee on Assassinations, p. 6 (J.F.K. Documents 009088).

Does anyone know if this deposition is viewable online?

--Tommy

Edited April 18, 2014 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

[...]

[...]

Silvia Odio told the Warren Commission in 1964 that although she saw "Leopoldo, Angel, and Leon" leave her apartment in a car, she couldn't describe the car. She said that the driver was the tall, thin, 36-year-old looking "Leopoldo" who she said had a very receding hairline at the temples.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=45&relPageId=382

In 1978 Odio allegedly stated in a deposition for the HSCA that she saw the three men get into a red car that was parked in the driveway in front of the apartment. She said she couldn't see who was driving but that "Angel" was sitting in the passenger seat, thereby leaving open the probability that her 1964 testimony that "Leopoldo" was driving was correct.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=1212&relPageId=30

Odio's HSCA deposition is known as "Deposition of Silvia Odio, May 2, 1978, House Select Committee on Assassinations, p. 6 (J.F.K. Documents 009088)".

Does anyone know if this deposition is viewable online, or does one have to go to the National Archives to read it?

Thanks,

--Tommy

PS If Odio really did say in 1978 that the car was red, there are a couple of plausible reasons why she didn't say that in 1964:

1) She couldn't remember in 1964 but it had "come to her" by 1978 (maybe because her sister told her?)

2) She could remember the color of the car in 1964, but at that time was too afraid to identify the three men more than she already had.

PPS We already know that Tom Dunkin witnessed Loran Hall and Bill Seymour driving a 1950-ish, blue Oldsmobile towing a trailer full of weapons in Glades County, Florida, on October 24th, 1963, and that Hall and Seymour told him they'd driven all night.

Edited

Edited April 18, 2014 by Thomas Graves