The relevance of JFK's peace speech to the JFKA and to where we are today

[James DiEugenio]

BC: Jeff Morley, top JFKA researcher,

Geez, thanks Ben.

[Benjamin Cole]

24 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

BC: Jeff Morley, top JFKA researcher,

Geez, thanks Ben.

Correx: "Jeff Morley, one of the top JFKA researchers...." 

[W. Niederhut]

10 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

As this thread is going bye bye . . .  I'm frustrated.  I should probably keep my mouth shut instead of sticking my foot in it.

The discussion of how the development of the cold war played a role in JFK's assassination is important, and informative to me at least.  The discussion of how his assassination affected the cold war in terms of LBJ, Vietnam, Nixon, neocon's, all the way to today is important and relevant.

But it seems that can't be discussed in terms of current or recent times without it becoming argumentative.  Even among those who agree LHO was not a lone nut.

Do we need a thread that stops at say idk, 1996?  The cold war was over then, right? (JK!)

Or could this be discussed without arguing over Biden, Putin, Ukraine.  J-6 and current indictments might well be discussed in a political thread as well to avoid acrimony.  Off the soap box, not kicking the can, jmo.  Ron

Ron,

     There's a lot of redundancy on this thread-- including the fact that two separate threads were started on the same topic in consecutive days, about the Jeffrey Sachs op-ed.

     Then Ben has added a third iteration, with the copycat Jefferson Morley article (above.)

     Monkey see, monkey do.

     (I think Ben used to work for the Department of Redundancy Department.)

     We even have Jeff Carter repeating his same trope about Douglass's book.

      As Sandy Larsen pointed out, the various iterations of the Sachs thesis are all framed in terms of a criticism of Biden's current response to Putin's brutal invasion of Ukraine.

      And withal, our Putin apologists and Biden critics really don't want to talk about JFK's Berlin Speech.

Edited June 12, 2023 by W. Niederhut

[John Cotter]

7 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Ron,

     There's a lot of redundancy on this thread-- including the fact that two separate threads were started on the same topic in consecutive days, about the Jeffrey Sachs op-ed.

     Then Ben has added a third iteration, with the copycat Jefferson Morley article (above.)

     Monkey see, monkey do.

     (I think Ben used to work for the Department of Redundancy Department.)

     We even have Jeff Carter repeating his same trope about Douglass's book.

      As Sandy Larsen pointed out, the various iterations of the Sachs thesis are all framed in terms of a criticism of Biden's current response to Putin's brutal invasion of Ukraine.

      And withal, our Putin apologists and Biden critics really don't want to talk about JFK's Berlin Speech.

William,

Your relentless banging on about Putin being the devil incarnate is bordering on pathological.

As evidenced by the Jeffrey Sachs passage quoted by James Di above, that kind of “shadow projection” is the antithesis of the dialogue and striving for mutual understanding that JFK advocated.

It’s a pity Sting spoiled his lovely updated rendition of his song “Russians” by his political correct, market-friendly, introduction. As DH Lawrence wisely said, “trust the tale [song] not the teller”.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6w3037nq23o

[W. Niederhut]

32 minutes ago, John Cotter said:

William,

Your relentless banging on about Putin being the devil incarnate is bordering on pathological.

As evidenced by the Jeffrey Sachs passage quoted by James Di above, that kind of “shadow projection” is the antithesis of the dialogue and striving for mutual understanding that JFK advocated.

It’s a pity Sting spoiled his lovely updated rendition of his song “Russians” by his political correct, market-friendly, introduction. As DH Lawrence wisely said, “trust the tale [song] not the teller”.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6w3037nq23o

It's not a "shadow projection," John.

That's a misdiagnosis.

I know a lot more about Putin than you imagine, from intensive study and direct, personal experience.

 

[John Cotter]

2 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

It's not a "shadow projection," John.

That's a misdiagnosis.

I know a lot more about Putin than you imagine, from intensive study and direct, personal experience.

 

William,

The excellent Academy of Ideas video, “Carl Jung, the Shadow, and the Danger of Psychological Projection”, elucidates the problems caused by the kind of childishly simplistic Manichean mentality constantly evinced by your postings.

The video ends with this quote:

“…modern people are ignorant of what they really are. We have simply forgotten what a human being really is, so we have men like Nietzche and Freud and Adler who tell us what we are, quite mercilessly. We have to discover our shadow. Otherwise we are driven into a world war in order to see what beasts we are.” (Carl Jung, Visions, Notes of the seminar given in 1930-1934).

https://academyofideas.com/2018/02/carl-jung-shadow-dangers-of-psychological-projection/

I would add that monotheistic religions are probably especially conducive to shadow projection, for obvious reasons. Hence, I have found the writings of Jung’s most brilliant “protégé”, James Hillman, on polytheistic psychology immensely illuminating and liberating.

Edited June 13, 2023 by John Cotter

[W. Niederhut]

4 hours ago, John Cotter said:

William,

The excellent Academy of Ideas video, “Carl Jung, the Shadow, and the Danger of Psychological Projection”, elucidates the problems caused by the kind of childishly simplistic Manichean mentality constantly evinced by your postings.

 

John,

     Your post is almost too ridiculous to dignify with a response.

     Instead of presuming to educate me, a psychiatrist, about Jungian psychology, try educating yourself about the nature of sociopathy and the details of Putin's history.

     Have you studied any of the references about Putin that I have posted for you, and others, on the forum?

     As for Manicheanism, and theodicy, I have probably forgotten more about the subject than you will ever know.

      

Edited June 13, 2023 by W. Niederhut

[John Cotter]

6 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

John,

     Your post is almost too ridiculous to dignify with a response.

     Instead of presuming to educate me, a psychiatrist, about Jungian psychology, try educating yourself about the nature of sociopathy and the details of Putin's history.

     Have you studied any of the references about Putin that I have posted for you, and others, on the forum?

     As for Manicheanism, and theodicy, I have probably forgotten more about the subject than you will ever know.

      

Physician, heal thyself.

[W. Niederhut]

2 hours ago, John Cotter said:

Physician, heal thyself.

I have, thank you.

Meanwhile, let's hope that clueless sophists will eventually grasp the concept that serial killers and mass murderers like Putin are "evil," rather than misinterpreting such basic concepts as "projections."

[John Cotter]

9 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

I have, thank you.

Meanwhile, let's hope that clueless sophists will eventually grasp the concept that serial killers and mass murderers like Putin are "evil," rather than misinterpreting such basic concepts as "projections."

So rather than acknowledge the reality that things happened before Russia invaded Ukraine on 24th February 2022 that could be construed as existential threats to Russia, you cling to your childish caricature of Putin as evil personified.

You thus justify the continuation of a war which will entail the deaths of thousands more Ukrainians and Russians, the further destruction of Ukraine and its probably defeat.

You need to grow up and get real.

[W. Niederhut]

2 hours ago, John Cotter said:

So rather than acknowledge the reality that things happened before Russia invaded Ukraine on 24th February 2022 that could be construed as existential threats to Russia, you cling to your childish caricature of Putin as evil personified.

You thus justify the continuation of a war which will entail the deaths of thousands more Ukrainians and Russians, the further destruction of Ukraine and its probably defeat.

You need to grow up and get real.

You need to get educated.

Is NATO to blame for the Russo-Ukrainian war? It's complicated, explains historian Serhii Plokhy (theconversation.com)

Putin and his FSB goons are directly responsible for the mass murder of Ukrainians and Russians in Ukraine.

Meanwhile, what is "childish" about acknowledging that a mass murderer is evil?  Do tell.

 

 

[John Cotter]

9 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

You need to get educated.

Is NATO to blame for the Russo-Ukrainian war? It's complicated, explains historian Serhii Plokhy (theconversation.com)

Putin and his FSB goons are directly responsible for the mass murder of Ukrainians and Russians in Ukraine.

Meanwhile, what is "childish" about acknowledging that a mass murderer is evil?  Do tell.

 

 

So you believe a Ukrainian view of the proxy war against Russia is objective.

Thanks for further illustrating your one-eyed perversity.