Chris Hedges and Aaron Mate: Please Sit Down

[James DiEugenio]

Its really disappointing to see two alleged leaders of the alternative media reveal that they know about zero concerning what the Kennedy administration was about or why it was eliminated.

And the information they do have comes from Sy Hersh's POS book and Noam Chomsky.  Truly incredible.

The whole Vietnam issue has been settled for a long time. 

But Hedges was even worse.  RFK was trying to kill Castro?  RFK despised King?  The Kennedys were late to civil rights?  I could not comprehend why the hostess, who is Afro American, let Hedges get away with this garbage.  I mean I would have been right in his face with spittle.

This is why I have no patience with the liberal blogosphere or in the so called alternative media.  If they are going to use Chomsky and Hersh, better they should just shut up about the subject. This was just disgusting to sit through.

https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/chris-hedges-and-aaron-mate-please-sit-down?fbclid=IwAR0dBmoW3qBswydHMAh9uSSOvtxIbmIKMW6cDPCH0Dr4totik_U62Z2BZ0c

 

[Benjamin Cole]

6 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Its really disappointing to see two alleged leaders of the alternative media reveal that they know about zero concerning what the Kennedy administration was about or why it was eliminated.

And the information they do have comes from Sy Hersh's POS book and Noam Chomsky.  Truly incredible.

The whole Vietnam issue has been settled for a long time. 

But Hedges was even worse.  RFK was trying to kill Castro?  RFK despised King?  The Kennedys were late to civil rights?  I could not comprehend why the hostess, who is Afro American, let Hedges get away with this garbage.  I mean I would have been right in his face with spittle.

This is why I have no patience with the liberal blogosphere or in the so called alternative media.  If they are going to use Chomsky and Hersh, better they should just shut up about the subject. This was just disgusting to sit through.

https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/chris-hedges-and-aaron-mate-please-sit-down?fbclid=IwAR0dBmoW3qBswydHMAh9uSSOvtxIbmIKMW6cDPCH0Dr4totik_U62Z2BZ0c

 

JD--

Surely, JFK made mistakes; every president does (we can say with hindsight).

But there is no way JFK Jr. would have ended up with 500,000 US soldiers in Vietnam, and killing a couple million people. 

JFK knew that US dominance in Vietnam would be seen (justifiably) by large fractions, probably majorities, of the Vietnamese as colonialism, and racism. That is a losing situation. Nobody likes occupying soldiers.

After Tet, Westmoreland wanted 750,000 troops in Vietnam.  And if that didn't work (and it would not have), then a million?

Even LBJ came to rue the day he gave the Deep State its war.  

This does not make the communists nice guys. 

But some wars cannot be won. The CCP is running China and human rights have all but disappeared. 

But US globalist elites cannot do enough business with Beijing. The Bidens are rolling in China money. They love it. 

So, what was the war in Indochina about? Fighting communism? 

 

 

[James DiEugenio]

I thought Hedges was even worse on the subject.

What a disgusting show of how effective the propaganda barrage by Hersh and Chomsky has been on what passes for the left.

I mean King's advisors wanted him to endorse McCarthy when he ran in New Hampshire.

It was King who said, no, I want to see what RFK does.

I mean how can you explain that one away?  So they do not even mention it.

As for Vietnam, i mean to bring up Chomsky's 1992 book in the face of all the documents the ARRB released on this subject?

I hope everyone gets that story Aaron Good told me about Peter Scott's essay in the Pentagon Papers about Kennedy's intent to withdraw.

Zinn and Chomsky did not want to print it because it would make people think a president can make a difference.

LOL, ROTF.😀

Yeah there was no difference between what JFK was doing and what LBJ did.

Rolling Thunder and 540,000 combat troops.

 

 

[Ron Bulman]

I've posted this before.  After the 2016 election, depressed, I went looking for books further explaining the left perspective.  I'd heard of, read of Chomsky.  Naturally he came up first in a search, along with Chris Hedges.  So, I bought three of Chomsky's, two of Hedges.  Frustrating.  Deep for me, but I disagreed with Noam's perspective in general.  Hedges conclusions and outlook were depressing.  They all went into the to be disposed of book box.

[James DiEugenio]

That is a really good one Ron.👋

The things that  Hedges said were just ridiculous, easily disproven by anyone looking for the true facts.

 

 

 

[James DiEugenio]

BTW, the reason I have such scorn for Chomsky is that I know he is being a hypocrite on the issue.

I know this through Ray Marcus,  first generation researcher.

Ray traveled the country trying to find professors and academics to take on the JFK case.

Since he spent some time in Boston each year, he decided to try Chomsky.

Chomsky initially agreed to give him 45 minutes at most.  So Ray only brought about 3-4 pieces of evidence.  Clips from the Z film, CE 399, the impossibility of hitting 2 of 3 direct hits in 6 seconds.

But just based on that, Chomsky was enthralled. He told his secretary not to take any more calls and cancel his appointments,  The 45 minutes stretched into over 3 hours. Chomsky was so interested that he brought in some nearby colleagues, who were equally fascinated.  And it looked like Ray had been successful recruiting Chomsky, who said he would contact him in a few days.

But then a note of foreboding and fear entered the picture. After dinner, one of the colleagues gave Ray a ride to the airport to get back to LA.  He now entered in with the usual refrain of: Hmm, if they can do that to a president, what would they do to suppress the truth and what chance would ordinary people have against them?

Ray understood this was a  visible sign indicating that the actual facts presented did not really matter.  After he heard this, he doubted the call from Chomsky would ever come.  

It didn't.

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[Paul Brancato]

Chomsky I’m not surprised, hedges I am. He should sit down with you for a while.

[James DiEugenio]

Like maybe three hours Paul.

[Ron Bulman]

I'd like to be a fly on that wall.

[Benjamin Cole]

I advise Mate and Hedges to have JD on their shows, as well as others with various viewpoints. 

 

[Michael Griffith]

On 6/28/2023 at 7:41 PM, Benjamin Cole said:

JD--

Surely, JFK made mistakes; every president does (we can say with hindsight).

But there is no way JFK Jr. would have ended up with 500,000 US soldiers in Vietnam, and killing a couple million people. 

JFK knew that US dominance in Vietnam would be seen (justifiably) by large fractions, probably majorities, of the Vietnamese as colonialism, and racism. That is a losing situation. Nobody likes occupying soldiers.

After Tet, Westmoreland wanted 750,000 troops in Vietnam.  And if that didn't work (and it would not have), then a million?

Even LBJ came to rue the day he gave the Deep State its war.  

This does not make the communists nice guys. 

But some wars cannot be won. The CCP is running China and human rights have all but disappeared. 

But US globalist elites cannot do enough business with Beijing. The Bidens are rolling in China money. They love it. 

So, what was the war in Indochina about? Fighting communism? 

It is sad that some of you simply cannot abandon these JFK-and-Vietnam myths. JFK had no intention of allowing South Vietnam to fall under Communist rule. The White House tapes prove this beyond any reasonable or rational doubt. They refute the unconditional-withdrawal claims made by some of his former aides and associates years later (other former aides and associates contradicted those claims, by the way).

The "secret" McNamara debrief proves nothing except that McNamara would occasionally create false paper trails or audio memos for potential later use (as he was caught doing by Admiral Sharpe). In this case, he obviously decided he did not dare use the phony debrief, which is why he failed to say a word about it in his memoir, even though much of his memoir was about JFK's Vietnam policy. Nor did McNamara even mention JFK's alleged revelation to him in any White House meeting when this information would have had a blockbuster effect. Nor is there any mention of JFK's alleged revelation to McNamara on any of the White House tapes recorded between November 1963 and November 1967. It is also revealing that he said nothing about this alleged historic revelation to any of his adoring aides, not even to McNaughton. Yet, sadly, this shoddy evidence was included in JFK Revisited without any mention of the doubts about its veracity.

Westmoreland did not really want that many more troops. That was Wheeler's doing. Wheeler pressured Westmoreland into making the request. And Wheeler wanted those troops because he recognized, as has been confirmed by North Vietnamese sources, that North Vietnam was reeling from the staggering defeat they had suffered during Tet I, and that this was a prime moment to deliver a finishing blow to the Communists. (Westmoreland felt this could be done with a far smaller increase in troop strength.)

The Vietnam War was not only winnable, we won it. We were on the verge of winning it twice before then (1963 and post-Tet 1968) but did not seize the opportunity. Read the now-available North Vietnamese sources. If Congress had not slashed aid to South Vietnam after 1973, South Vietnam would have remained independent. 

Yes, the Vietnam War was about fighting communism. It was about keeping 19 million people from falling under Communist tyranny. The reign of terror that the Communist imposed on South Vietnam should make it clear to every humane person that our effort to keep South Vietnam free was noble and worthwhile.

I hope you will one day read the other side of the story on the Vietnam War, at least three books. I'd recommend Dr. Lewis Sorley's A Better War: The Unexamined Victories and Final Tragedy of America's Last Years in Vietnam (1999), Dr. George Veith's Drawn Swords in a Distant Land: South Vietnam's Shattered Dream (2021), and The Republic of Vietnam, 1955-1975 (2020), edited by Tuong Vu and Sean Fear.

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Michael Griffith

[James DiEugenio]

I have gotten several letters from readers who really liked the article.

I think there is a smoldering resentment for the liberal intelligentsia who have simply not done their homework, but just trust Hersh and Chomsky on this implicitly.

This is why I told that Ray Marcus story about Chomsky. 

As per Hersh, its pretty obvious he was doing a pre ordained hatchet job.

I mean, the only PR tour I ever saw as extensive as Hersh's was for Posner.  That tells you all you need to know about what he was doing and who it was for.

BTW, if you do not know it, it was Hersh who caused the Jennings 2003 JFK special.

See, ABC bought Hersh's book without any advance due diligence.

Then the Monroe phony trust documents blew up in their faces.  Jennings was very disturbed by this and said that, it was not like they were saving Hersh.  Which was BS, since that is why Hersh cut it out of his book.  Even though one of the signees to the phony trust told him that was not her signature and the documents were fakes.

Well, Jennings did not go far enough because another custard pie blew up in ABC's face with the whole Martin Underwood seeing Exner on her secret mission between Chicago and the White House. Underwood completely denied this for the ARRB. And Jennings smudged over his refusal to appear on the show.

Jennings really resented all this and he went to one of the researchers for Hersh's POS book, namely our good friend Gus Russo. And good ole Gus became the lead reporter  for the 2003 show.  Gus then worked for Brokaw in 2013.  NBC got that hack, the late Richard Reeves, to say that NSAM 263 was rally withdrawing only kitchen cooks and help from Vietnam. 

I wish I was joking.  But you cannot make this stuff up.

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[Benjamin Cole]

9 hours ago, Michael Griffith said:

It is sad that some of you simply cannot abandon these JFK-and-Vietnam myths. JFK had no intention of allowing South Vietnam to fall under Communist rule. The White House tapes prove this beyond any reasonable or rational doubt. They refute the unconditional-withdrawal claims made by some of his former aides and associates years later (other former aides and associates contradicted those claims, by the way).

The "secret" McNamara debrief proves nothing except that McNamara would occasionally create false paper trails or audio memos for potential later use (as he was caught doing by Admiral Sharpe). In this case, he obviously decided he did not dare use the phony debrief, which is why he failed to say a word about it in his memoir, even though much of his memoir was about JFK's Vietnam policy. Nor did McNamara even mention JFK's alleged revelation to him in any White House meeting when this information would have had a blockbuster effect. Nor is there any mention of JFK's alleged revelation to McNamara on any of the White House tapes recorded between November 1963 and November 1967. It is also revealing that he said nothing about this alleged historic revelation to any of his adoring aides, not even to McNaughton. Yet, sadly, this shoddy evidence was included in JFK Revisited without any mention of the doubts about its veracity.

Westmoreland did not really want that many more troops. That was Wheeler's doing. Wheeler pressured Westmoreland into making the request. And Wheeler wanted those troops because he recognized, as has been confirmed by North Vietnamese sources, that North Vietnam was reeling from the staggering defeat they had suffered during Tet I, and that this was a prime moment to deliver a finishing blow to the Communists. (Westmoreland felt this could be done with a far smaller increase in troop strength.)

The Vietnam War was not only winnable, we won it. We were on the verge of winning it twice before then (1963 and post-Tet 1968) but did not seize the opportunity. Read the now-available North Vietnamese sources. If Congress had not slashed aid to South Vietnam after 1973, South Vietnam would have remained independent. 

Yes, the Vietnam War was about fighting communism. It was about keeping 19 million people from falling under Communist tyranny. The reign of terror that the Communist imposed on South Vietnam should make it clear to every humane person that our effort to keep South Vietnam free was noble and worthwhile.

I hope you will one day read the other side of the story on the Vietnam War, at least three books. I'd recommend Dr. Lewis Sorley's A Better War: The Unexamined Victories and Final Tragedy of America's Last Years in Vietnam (1999), Dr. George Veith's Drawn Swords in a Distant Land: South Vietnam's Shattered Dream (2021), and The Republic of Vietnam, 1955-1975 (2020), edited by Tuong Vu and Sean Fear.

 

MG--

"Westmoreland did not really want that many more troops [750,000]. That was Wheeler's doing. Wheeler pressured Westmoreland into making the request. And Wheeler wanted those troops because he recognized, as has been confirmed by North Vietnamese sources, that North Vietnam was reeling from the staggering defeat they had suffered during Tet I, and that this was a prime moment to deliver a finishing blow to the Communists. (Westmoreland felt this could be done with a far smaller increase in troop strength.)"--MG

OK, Wheeler, who I guess you would concede was knowledgable about SV, wanted 750,000 troops there (after Tet), and the wishy-washy Westmoreland went along. 

The record shows Westmoreland asked for 750,000 troops. 

I cannot imagine JFK ever allowing himself to get into a situation like that.

You think the Vietnamese were going to quit? If you were fighting to defend your homeland against foreign occupation, when would you quit? Add race and colonial history into the picture. 

As an aside, something happens to occupied peoples in wartime. People forget about their old civilian lives and resign themselves to a long war. This is happening in Ukraine now.  The longer that war goes on, the more habituated to war the Ukrainians will become. Putin will never win.

Remember what Churchill said: If it comes to it, we will fight a German invasion with rocks, bottles and our bare hands, but we will never quit.  You think only Brits can be patriots? 

And the V. war was going on for long time even before the US stupidly interjected itself. 

You think the V. war was about communism? 

Can you explain why US elite corporatists are so eager to business with Beijing/CCP?  Why the Biden family accepted $10 million from the CCP? 

The Vietnamese war was not about communism. It was about continued Western colonialism and access to markets. 

The US elites' embrace of the CCP is proof.  

(As an aside, I live in SE Asia now. I cannot imagine that Operation Phoenix or forceful relocation entire villages to controlled zones were ever thought to be anything but very counterproductive. If your uncle, brother, father, or son is murdered by the Americans as a suspected or actual communist...how do you feel about the occupying Americans?).