Did the Plotters View RFK's Murder of Marilyn Monroe as Justification for Killing JFK?

[Robert Morrow]

On 10/14/2023 at 7:47 PM, James DiEugenio said:

This is what you wrote Cory:  So I see your Clint Hill and raise you Agent Gerald Blaine who said MM and JFK had two encounters to his knowledge and apparently one was behind closed doors.   

You left out the part where Blaine said he never saw any evidence of an affair.  

 

Well, it's not like at Peter Lawford's home in Santa Monica, JFK and Marilyn Monroe are going to invite the Secret Service into the bedroom to watch what was going on. Anything going on between JFK and Monroe was not an act to be publicly shared, unlike Lyndon Johnson and his serial defecation in front of staff and reporters.

If JFK and Marilyn Monroe were in a private, closed room together, they were probably having sex.

[Robert Morrow]

On 10/30/2023 at 11:44 AM, Michael Griffith said:

I can't believe we are even having this conversation. I suggest you Google something like "JFK adultery extra-marital affairs cheating," and go from there. I would also recommend two recent books:

Incomparable Grace: JFK in the Presidency (2022), by Mark K. Updegrove.

Jackie: Public, Private, Secret (2023), by J. Randy Taraborrelli.

Have you heard of Mary Pinchot Meyer? Ellen Rometsch? Mimi Alford? Judith Exner? How about "Fiddle and Faddle"?

Do you know who George Smathers was? Ken O'Donnell? Dave Powers? They were all good friends of JFK's and acknowledged JFK's serial adultery. 

Were all the Secret Service agents who reported seeing JFK with other women lying? All of them?

Well, let's not leave out JFK's secretary of 12 years (1951-1963) Evelyn Lincoln who loved and adored John Kennedy and totally believed that Lyndon Johnson and others conspired to murder JFK. In 1998 Evelyn Lincoln said that she spent "HALF MY TIME" talking with JFK's mistresses (both older and younger women) and that Kennedy asked her to sneak women into the White House.

John F. Kennedy was a man who was completely out of control sexually - which does not mean he deserved to be murdered or that he did not make some good decisions relating to not having nuclear war with the Soviets and an unwillingness to prosecute the Vietnam War like LBJ did.

Evelyn Lincoln knew a lot of dirt on John Kennedy, the man she adored. She said “I spent half my time talking to women.” (She also thought LBJ murdered JFK.)

 1999 CNN article: http://www.cnn.com/US/9803/18/evelyn.lincoln.profile/

 March 18, 1998
Web posted at: 1:41 p.m. EST (1841 GMT)

NEW YORK (CNN) -- For more than a decade, Evelyn Lincoln was John F. Kennedy's personal secretary and one of his most trusted confidants.

Lincoln was by Kennedy's side from the time he became a U.S. senator until his death in Dallas, during his presidency. She kept hundreds of things she had collected from Kennedy until her own death in 1995, and she willed those items to collector Robert White.

"I one time asked her, 'Why pick through the trash and save his doodles?' and she said, 'because I knew he was special,'" White explained.

During Kennedy's presidency, Lincoln worked in a small room next to the Oval Office. In a 1989 interview with CNN's Larry King, Lincoln remembered Kennedy as a taskmaster.

"He wanted you to do the right thing at the moment. He wanted it done."

Lincoln said Kennedy even asked her to help sneak women into the White House.

"You know women chased him. Let's face it. There were young women. There were older women. They all did. I spent half of my time talking to women."

CNN's Tony Clark contributed to this report

[James DiEugenio]

Morrow brought this thread back and hijacked it.  Because I was effectively countering him time after time on the other thread.

This thread was titled by Mike Griffith.  

And from the start it was BS.

For the simple reason that we know today for sure, through three nationally known pathologists, that MM was not murdered by anyone.  We also know through the work of the best writers and researchers in that field--Vitacco Robles, VeVea, McGovern, Churchwell--that there was no "affair" between RFK and MM, and at the most, there was perhaps a one off dalliance between MM and JFK, and Gary VItacco Robles, even disputes that.

 Since that has no validity, and is in fact a pile of rubbish--and has been shown to be so--what does Robert do?  He adds stuff that has nothing to do with MM.  And he then modifies the stories he quotes with stuff that is not in the text, and anyone can see that. He then creates stuff that he himself understands did not happen. 

But then he throws in something else to push his other agenda:  hey Evelyn Lincoln thinks Johnson killed Kennedy. Which has about as much evidence behind it as his other attempts at character assassination.

Bob, this is one of the better forums there is on the JFK case.  If you have nothing to say, except to push your own personal  agenda, then its better that you just don't say anything.

 

 

Edited March 2 by James DiEugenio

[Robert Morrow]

29 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Morrow brought this thread back and hijacked it.  Because I was effectively countering him time after time on the other thread.

This thread was titled by Mike Griffith.  

And from the start it was BS.

For the simple reason that we know today for sure, through three nationally known pathologists, that MM was not murdered by anyone.  We also know through the work of the best writers and researchers in that field--Vitacco Robles, VeVea, McGovern, Churchwell--that there was no "affair" between RFK and MM, and at the most, there was perhaps a one off dalliance between MM and JFK, and Gary VItacco Robles, even disputes that.

 Since that has no validity, and is in fact a pile of rubbish--and has been shown to be so--what does Robert do?  He adds stuff that has nothing to do with MM.  And he then modifies the stories he quotes with stuff that is not in the text, and anyone can see that. He then creates stuff that he himself understands did not happen.

But then he throws in something else to push his other agenda:  hey Evelyn Lincoln thinks Johnson killed Kennedy. Which has about as much evidence behind it as his other attempts at character assassination.

Bob, this is one of the better forums there is on the JFK case.  If you have nothing to say, except to push your own personal  agenda, then its better that you just don't say anything.

 

 

1) At this point, I don't believe Marilyn Monroe was murdered by anyone. I do think it is very possible that the Kennedys set her over the edge psychologically and she took too many pills by accident or on purpose and she died of a drug overdose.

2) You are welcome to not think John Kennedy had a sexual affair with Marilyn Monroe. I think it is no-brainer obvious that JFK and Monroe were having a sexual affair - just look at my source Air Force Steward Doyle Whitehead who saw Monroe on Air Force One twice. 

3) Evelyn Lincoln is an excellent source on JFK's sexual promiscuity which obviously heightens the odds that he was having an affair with Marilyn Monroe (no brainer obvious to me).

4) On the day of the JFK assassination, in real time, both Evelyn Lincoln and Jackie Kennedy, two of the closest people on Earth to JFK thought that Lyndon Johnson just murdered JFK. I happen to think that is extremely important. Btw both Robert Kennedy and Ethel Kennedy thought Lyndon Johnson murdered JFK.

5) You seem to think that anyone who disagrees with you is "pushing their own personal agenda" and "it's better if they just don't say anything." Ever heard of the word "debate?"

Jackie Kennedy, on the flight back from Dallas, referring to the murder of her husband JFK: “Lyndon Johnson did it.”

 Eddie Fisher:

 QUOTE

           Pam was with the President and Jackie on that fatal trip to Dallas. He was assassinated on a Friday, November 22, 1963. Jack Kennedy and Pam had arranged an appointment for me with Vice-President Lyndon Johnson for the following Monday to discuss an effort I was leading to change our national anthem from “The Star-Spangled Banner,” which is very difficult to sing, to “America the Beautiful.” Obviously that meeting never took place.

          On the flight back to Washington after the murder, Pam told me, Jackie Kennedy told her, “Lyndon Johnson did it.” Words I’ll never forget.”

 UNQUOTE

 [Eddie Fisher, Been There, Done That: An Autobiography, pp. 257-258]

 Eddie Fisher’s autobiography on Amazon:

 https://www.amazon.com/Been-There-Done-That-Autobiography/dp/031220972X/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=eddie+fisher+autobiography&qid=1627459291&sr=8-1

P.S. Pamela Turnure, who JFK placed as Jackie Kennedy's press secretary, was YET ANOTHER ONE of JFK's many mistresses. She died last year and before she did a JFK researcher friend of mine contacted her about Jackie Kennedy's quote "Lyndon Johnson did it" and Pamela did not deny that Jackie said it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 2 by Robert Morrow

[James DiEugenio]

Eddie FIsher?

The crazy couple the Katers who tried to black mail Kennedy?

When is Lex Cusack coming up again?

In other words this is triple hearsay about Jackie suspecting LBJ. From Fisher through Pamela.

As per RFK, David Talbot's book Brothers is the best book on RFK and his inquiry into the JFK case.  Why ignore that best selling and  credible tome for Eddie Fisher? Because he does not name LBJ as someone RFK suspected?

Whitehead? Against VeVea and Rollyson.  Whew.

 

[Cory Santos]

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Eddie FIsher?

The crazy couple the Katers who tried to black mail Kennedy?

When is Lex Cusack coming up again?

In other words this is triple hearsay about Jackie suspecting LBJ. From Fisher through Pamela.

As per RFK, David Talbot's book Brothers is the best book on RFK and his inquiry into the JFK case.  Why ignore that best selling and  credible tome for Eddie Fisher? Because he does not name LBJ as someone RFK suspected?

Whitehead? Against VeVea and Rollyson.  Whew.

 

Well, to be fair, just because something is a best seller does not make it correct.   Would you say Case Closed was correct or credible in your opinion?  

[Robert Morrow]

On 10/17/2023 at 1:40 PM, Cory Santos said:

How can you now say there was only one encounter still?   Previously you wrote:

 

Hi, Jim,

A People magazine article, published on 16 October 2022, written by Tierney McAfee, reported the following about Jerry Blaine’s MM and JFK statements:

Jerry Blaine, a former Secret Service agent in the Kennedy detail, told PEOPLE that he was with JFK during two known encounters the president had with Monroe — one at Lawford's Santa Monica home in 1961 and another at the party in New  York  

End Quote.

So is it one or two encounters Jim?   If you stick to one, as you said above, then you ignore Blaine.  That is picking and choosing your evidence.

Fact, Monroe knew stopping shooting would affect her movie contract.  Why would she risk that for someone she did not know- especially after the Misfits underperformed! Ridiculous to suggest. 

Fact, Jackie knew Monroe would be singing.  That fact is why she found an excuse not to go.

Fact, the photo of the three of them was only released in 2010 by  Cecil Stoughton.  Perhaps there are more somewhere or can you tell us definitely there are not?   Hint, the answer is below so you might want to cheat.
Let me be clear, I do not believe the Kennedy’s had anything to do with her murder.  But since this is a forum where everyone casts speculative stones at good people and governmental agencies, maybe everyone should read this interesting article https://www.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/06/01/marilyn.monroe.birthday.photo/index.html

 

Jimmy likes to say Marilyn Monroe never came to the White House to see JFK. That might very well be true. But there are many other places to carry on affairs: other cities and even airplanes.

Traphes Bryant, the former White House kennel keeper:

 QUOTE
 

President Kennedy certainly seemed to enjoy his women. I don't know for sure about Marilyn Monroe, but I did hear backstairs talk, after he was dead, that during his visits to California he had enjoyed a few discreet meetings with her at a private home.

I never saw her around the White House and I never heard talk of her being either an official or "O.R."-off the record-guest there in his administration, even though she once sang "Happy birthday, Mr. President, happy birthday to you" to him in New York's Madison Square Garden.

But this much I can tell you: he did enjoy having beautiful women around him at the White House and he did entertain them when Jackie was away. There was a conspiracy of silence to protect his secrets from Jacqueline and to keep her from finding out. The newspapers would tell how First Lady Jacqueline was off on another trip, but what they didn't report was how anxious the President sometimes was to see her go. And what consternation there sometimes was when she returned unexpectedly.

I remember one time it was a beautiful tall blond girl skinny dipping in the pool with him. JFK liked to swim nude and so did some of the girls who popped in to visit him. But this particular girl must have been just waiting for the First Lady to be on her way. She came in the South West Gate and straight to the South Portico, and a trusted aide met her there. He walked her through the Diplomatic Room and along the Colonnade, as if he were taking her to the President's office, but instead he took her to the gymnasium, where she shed her clothes and went to the pool.

Jack Kennedy was already there, lounging naked beside the pool and sipping a daiquiri. Sometimes one or two from a group of trusted staff aides and friends would join Kennedy in the pool, and often there would be just one other male and female to make up a foursome. This time there were several girls and several male friends.

 UNQUOTE

  [Traphes Bryant, Dog Days at the White House, p. 22, published 1/1/1975].

 

Edited March 2 by Robert Morrow

[Robert Morrow]

4 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Eddie FIsher?

The crazy couple the Katers who tried to black mail Kennedy?

When is Lex Cusack coming up again?

In other words this is triple hearsay about Jackie suspecting LBJ. From Fisher through Pamela.

As per RFK, David Talbot's book Brothers is the best book on RFK and his inquiry into the JFK case.  Why ignore that best selling and  credible tome for Eddie Fisher? Because he does not name LBJ as someone RFK suspected?

Whitehead? Against VeVea and Rollyson.  Whew.

 

Jimmy, do you not believe Eddie Fisher and Pamela Turnure that Jackie Kennedy on Air Force One said "Lyndon Johnson did it" in reference to the JFK assassination? That is not "triple hearsay," it is merely hearsay. In a courtroom, Pamela Turnure, because she was direct witness to Jackie Kennedy saying this, would be allowed to testify.

It is merely hearsay from Eddie Fisher who HAPPENED TO DATE PAMELA TURNURE. Eddie Fisher published his autobiography Been There, Done That in September, 1999. Pamela Turnure had over 20 years to say she never heard Jackie Kennedy say that and she never did. In fact, a friend of mine called her in 2022, before she died, and Pamela Turnure, drenched in money from her home in Colorado, DID NOT DENY that Jackie said those words. It was a confirmation by non-denial. Turnure died on April 25, 2023: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pamela_Turnure

In the search for historical truth, hearsay is perfectly acceptable to use. This is not a court room.

Jimmy, you referred to the Katers as a "crazy couple" that was trying to blackmail John Kennedy. You bet they were trying to force him to give them some money to shut up about his affair with Pamela Turnure. Those are extreme steps to be taking.

Jimmy, are you saying you don't believe Sen. John Kennedy was having an affair with Pamela Turnure? I think the Katers were 100% correct. I assume you think they were making it up?

I think it is a no-brainer that he was - and moreover, that is probably the very low hanging blackmail fruit that Lyndon Johnson and Sam Rayburn used over the head of JFK to force him to put Lyndon Johnson on the 1960 Democratic ticket! The Katers had contacted the media, the opposing Democratic campaigns and even the FBI as they were hellbent on exposing the adultery of JFK (but they could have been shut up for a few bucks).

 

 

Edited March 3 by Robert Morrow

[Robert Morrow]

On 10/12/2023 at 12:42 AM, James DiEugenio said:

Leslie, one can read as much as you want into a cropped photo. 

The  other photo shows Steve Smith with his arm around MM's waist escorting her around.  Go ahead read into that one. Geez where is his hand going to?

Jackie was not there since it was not her brithday party for him.  It was really a fundraiser with about 15 entertainers on the bill and I think 15,000 people in MSG.  

You can see at the Bday before and the one after, which Jackie did arrange, she was there.

 

Jackie Kennedy, when White House photographer Cecil Stoughton told her Marilyn Monroe was going to attend JFK’s May 19, 1962 Birthday party at Madison Square Garden, said “Screw Jack” and left the room and did not attend the celebration

 https://www.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/06/01/marilyn.monroe.birthday.photo/index.html

 QUOTE

 Morgan said he bought access to the negative while working on an upcoming documentary about the actress's death, "Marilyn Monroe: Murder on Fifth Helena Drive."

Stoughton, in interviews for the film, told Morgan the story behind the first lady's refusal to attend her husband's birthday gala.

"He's the one who told Jackie that Marilyn was going to be at the celebration, and her exact words were 'Screw Jack,' and she left the room and she did not go to the famous celebration," Morgan said.

Morgan's prints show details not clear in low-resolution, cropped copies that made their way onto the internet after the photo was licensed for a book about Monroe in 2004.

 UNQUOTE

 [“Rare photo shows Marilyn Monroe with JFK, RFK,” Alan Duke, CNN, June 2, 2010]

Edited March 3 by Robert Morrow

[Nick Bartetzko]

2 hours ago, Robert Morrow said:

Jimmy likes to say Marilyn Monroe never came to the White House to see JFK. That might very well be true. But there are many other places to carry on affairs: other cities and even airplanes.

Traphes Bryant, the former White House kennel keeper:

 QUOTE
 

President Kennedy certainly seemed to enjoy his women. I don't know for sure about Marilyn Monroe, but I did hear backstairs talk, after he was dead, that during his visits to California he had enjoyed a few discreet meetings with her at a private home.

I never saw her around the White House and I never heard talk of her being either an official or "O.R."-off the record-guest there in his administration, even though she once sang "Happy birthday, Mr. President, happy birthday to you" to him in New York's Madison Square Garden.

But this much I can tell you: he did enjoy having beautiful women around him at the White House and he did entertain them when Jackie was away. There was a conspiracy of silence to protect his secrets from Jacqueline and to keep her from finding out. The newspapers would tell how First Lady Jacqueline was off on another trip, but what they didn't report was how anxious the President sometimes was to see her go. And what consternation there sometimes was when she returned unexpectedly.

I remember one time it was a beautiful tall blond girl skinny dipping in the pool with him. JFK liked to swim nude and so did some of the girls who popped in to visit him. But this particular girl must have been just waiting for the First Lady to be on her way. She came in the South West Gate and straight to the South Portico, and a trusted aide met her there. He walked her through the Diplomatic Room and along the Colonnade, as if he were taking her to the President's office, but instead he took her to the gymnasium, where she shed her clothes and went to the pool.

Jack Kennedy was already there, lounging naked beside the pool and sipping a daiquiri. Sometimes one or two from a group of trusted staff aides and friends would join Kennedy in the pool, and often there would be just one other male and female to make up a foursome. This time there were several girls and several male friends.

 UNQUOTE

  [Traphes Bryant, Dog Days at the White House, p. 22, published 1/1/1975].

 

I heard about the Dog Days at the White House book decades ago. Tried to buy a used copy back then, but it was a bit too pricey. It was the first glimpse of marijuana, unclothed pool parties etc etc.  We have the Fiddle and Faddle girls, the book by Mimi Alford, the interviews with some of the Secret Service guys describing some of these events. It seems there’s quite a damning record of these liaisons. It seems a well documented part of JFKs life and could have contributed to what I believe is likely Secret Service involvement to a certain…or large…extent. 

[Robert Morrow]

You can get a cheap copy of Traphes Bryant's Dog Days at the White House: the Outrageous Memoirs of the Presidential Kennel Keeper here: Traphes Bryant - AbeBooks

I highly recommend it!

[James DiEugenio]

Oh please.  

Now you are trying to bring in instance after instance which has nothing to do with MM.

Why?  Why are you going so far away from both threads?  

BTW, I read the article about Whitehead.

He said this FIFTY YEARS after the fact.  You got it, a HALF CENTURY later.

Now why did you not quote what else he said?

He said LBJ broke open a bottle of Cutty Sark on the plane and said "Well what's next?"

Oh really Bob? Got any other fairy tales.

 

The Kennel keeper?   LOL. 😿. Question:  if you write a book about the white House from the kennels, how else do you sell any copies? 🤔

Finally, Jackie had that horse back riding event booked for weeks in advance.  

So no go partner. 

Why not quote  Jeanne Carmen next with MM getting phone calls from Jackie saying stay away from my husband?

Woops.  He will use that now.

 

 

 

Edited March 3 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

As per me saying that I like to say MM was not in DC, that is not me saying it.  That is writers like Don McGovern and Gary VItacco Robles, based on facts.  Not BS or opinion.

All one has to do is read the Rollyson/VeVea books.

Then you match that up with Kennedy's schedule.

See, when you are president that is what you have, a daily schedule. (Not sure if that includes visits to the dog kennels😿)

It is simply a matter of comparing the two.

MM was not in DC while JFK was president. 

Reputable authors have compared the two schedules.  

Or maybe they missed MM in disguise on AF One, right out of David Heymann. VIa Carmen.

 

 

[Robert Morrow]

Jim DiEugenio: 

QUOTE

Now why did you not quote what else [Doyle Whitehead] said?

He said LBJ broke open a bottle of Cutty Sark on the plane and said "Well what's next?"

UNQUOTE

Jimmy, do you know much about LBJ's relationship with Cutty Sark? When Kennedy would send LBJ on VP trips Johnson would stock cases and cases of cheap Cutty Sark to guzzle down. Getting drunk was the first thing LBJ did after the JFK assassination. I wonder if he was worried about something?

Air Force Steward Doyle Whitehead says Lyndon Johnson drank about “a fifth of Cutty Sark” on the flight back from Dallas to Washington, D.C. on the day of the JFK assassination. Which is the equivalent of drinking 10 beers in 2 hours which would give a 220 pound man a blood alcohol content level of .138 far above drunk driving levels (.08 in most places).

A “fifth” means one-fifth of a gallon of cheap Cutty Sark scotch. There are 128 ounces in one gallon. A fifth of a gallon is 25.6 ounces of scotch. One-half of a fifth of scotch = 12.8 ounces.

The alcohol content of Cutty Sark scotch is 40%. 40% of 12.8 ounces of scotch = 5.12 ounces of alcohol in one-half of a fifth of scotch.

If LBJ was drinking “half of a fifth of scotch” that would equal 12.8 ounces of scotch. Blood Alcohol Content tables list 1.25 ounces of 80 proof distilled spirits at 40% alcohol content to be ONE DRINK.

12.8 ounces of Cutty Sark = 10.24 DRINKS consumed over 2 hours. For a man weighing 220 lbs, 10 DRINKS of scotch over 2 hours will give him a blood alcohol content level of .138 which is well over the level for drunk driving.

Lyndon Johnson in the 2 hours after the JFK assassination was far above the biological equivalent of a drunk driver.

 

Edited March 3 by Robert Morrow

[Robert Morrow]

On 3/2/2024 at 1:23 PM, James DiEugenio said:

Eddie FIsher?

The crazy couple the Katers who tried to black mail Kennedy?

When is Lex Cusack coming up again?

In other words this is triple hearsay about Jackie suspecting LBJ. From Fisher through Pamela.

As per RFK, David Talbot's book Brothers is the best book on RFK and his inquiry into the JFK case.  Why ignore that best selling and  credible tome for Eddie Fisher? Because he does not name LBJ as someone RFK suspected?

Whitehead? Against VeVea and Rollyson.  Whew.

 

Yes, Jimmy, the following information has nothing to do with Marilyn Monroe, who I do not think anybody murdered, but the Kennedys probably sent her over the edge psychologically. Remember JFK traveled to Santa Monica (in the LA area) within a short time of Monroe's death. JFK was photographed in swimsuit coming out the ocean with his lady fans in a state of high excitement.

But it is for your benefit, as you seem to have great difficulty understanding the extent of John F. Kennedy's promiscuity and the consequences of it. I *think* the JFK/Pamela Turnure affair was precisely the blackmail tool that LBJ and Sam Rayburn used on JFK at the Los Angeles convention to force him to take Johnson on the 1960 Democratic ticket.

Here is a 1995 letter from Pierre Salinger to author, Jerry Kroth, author of "Conspiracy in Camelot":
 

QUOTE

Dear Dr. Kroth, ... Kennedy pushed me to have mistresses, which convinced me he was having mistresses. During the campaign, I got side information from journalists (who in those days were not interested in publishing that information) that John F. Kennedy was having an affair with Pamela Turnure, who later became Jackie's press secretary. There were rumors in the White House about Fiddle and Faddle, but I did not get specific information. And, finally, no employee assigned to my office had an affair with the President. One did in the next term with Lyndon Johnson.

Best Regards,

Pierre Salinger (Source: Personal correspondence, October 20, 1995)

UNQUOTE

[Kroth, Conspiracy in Camelot, p. 206]