JFK: What The Doctors Saw validates there was no exit hole in the back of JFK's head.

[Denny Zartman]

On 12/29/2023 at 9:56 PM, Pat Speer said:

After thinking about what they'd witnessed, and being shown the autopsy photos, Dr.s Carrico, Perry, Jenkins and Baxter all said they'd been mistaken, and that they had not seen cerebellum. 

Eight of the doctors reported seeing cerebellum. You choose to believe their retractions, even though you know perfectly well many witnesses were pressured to change their stories to confirm with the official story of one lone shooter from behind.

On 12/29/2023 at 9:56 PM, Pat Speer said:

You are incorrect if you think Clark doubled-down and said the back of the head was blown out. He actually dismissed CTs as money-grubbers and instead threw in with John Lattimer, the then King of the LNs. 

When did this happen? According to what I've read in January 1994 interviews with David Naro, Clark said "the lower right occipital region of the head was blown out and I saw cerebellum. In my opinion the wound was an exit wound... a large hole in the back of the president's head... blown out" - JFK From Parkland To Bethesda - Vince Palamara - Pg 3

On 12/29/2023 at 9:56 PM, Pat Speer said:

YIKES, the frequent claim the witnesses in Groden's book were pointing to a wound low on the back of the skull, and that we should believe them, is utter hoo-ha. Vomit.

So, believe you over my lying eyes?

[Pat Speer]

5 hours ago, Denny Zartman said:

Eight of the doctors reported seeing cerebellum. You choose to believe their retractions, even though you know perfectly well many witnesses were pressured to change their stories to confirm with the official story of one lone shooter from behind.

When did this happen? According to what I've read in January 1994 interviews with David Naro, Clark said "the lower right occipital region of the head was blown out and I saw cerebellum. In my opinion the wound was an exit wound... a large hole in the back of the president's head... blown out" - JFK From Parkland To Bethesda - Vince Palamara - Pg 3

So, believe you over my lying eyes?

If you are gonna insist that early statements are most reliable, then you should know that but three of the 7 doctors writing reports on the day of the assassination (Clark, Carrico, Perry, McClelland, Baxter, Jenkins, and Bashour) mentioned cerebellum. Two of these, Clark and Carrico, later retracted their statements and said they never even looked at the low back of the head. The third was Clark, who refused to talk to conspiracy theorists and even the press except to denounce conspiracy theorists, and who instead threw his support to John Lattimer, the most prominent LNer of his day, and author of Kennedy and Lincoln. 

As far as Naro, we've been through this on this forum, and his claims are highly doubtful. For one, he came out of nowhere claiming he'd spoken to Clark and Clark told him exactly what Lifton et al wanted to hear. And then disappeared. Lifton himself doubted this guy's bona fides until years later, when looking for new juicy material for his book. The words attributed to Clark by Naro do not ring true, to my mind, and many others. In the best possible light, the worlds attributed to him were taken out of context by Naro. (Perhaps Clark said "I used to think" or "For all I know" or some such thing). In any event, when one compares the words of Clark in the press conference, in articles after the press conference, his reports, and his testimony, it becomes clear he suspected the large wound to be a tangential wound of both entrance and exit, and not a "blow-out" low on the far back of the head. 

As far as your last line...huh? Go back and look at the photos. Go through them one by one. Note the location of the hands in comparison to the ear. It is as I have said...the majority of them are pointing out a wound location above the ear, above the occipital bone. And when you exclude those whose opinions were misrepresented by Groden, well, this minority becomes a small minority...made up of witnesses who only came forward after seeing the McClelland drawing, or whatever. 

Now, as expressed on my website, and on this website, ad nauseam, the witnesses taken as a whole do not support the accuracy of the autopsy photos as normally interpreted. But it's even more clear that they do not support the accuracy of the McClelland drawing, nor that the Harper fragment was occipital, nor that cerebellum would have been readily observed dripping out the back of the defect. 

And that is what confounds me. It's one thing to say the witnesses pointed to the back of the head and that that should lead us to believe the wound was a few inches back of where it is shown in the photos. But that's not what some of the prominent members of the CT community have been doing. No, they've been saying the witnesses are pointing to a wound further back than in the photos, and that that means the photos are fake, and that that means there was a blow-out wound low on the back of the head. It's a con job. They are in effect saying "Hey, look at these witnesses! They can't all be wrong!" And then saying "F the witnesses! They aren't pointing to where they should be pointing, and are obviously wrong!" 

Look back at McClelland. Look to where he said he saw a wound when interviewed for The Men Who Killed Kennedy. And then think about where this wound would need to have been for him to have seen gobs of cerebellum dripping from the head. It's three inches away, which is quite a bit when one considers the size of the skull. And yet people have no problem claiming he is pointing to the location in the McClelland drawing (which he did not draw, nor supervise). It's bizarro-world. 

[Micah Mileto]

On 12/29/2023 at 3:30 AM, Pat Speer said:

Only one head wound was noted by the Newmans, Burkley, and Kilduff, and they were all pointing out the location of that wound. 

And please please don't post images like the one above, as it is deliberately deceptive.

1. Kilduff was pointing out the location of the one wound observed by Burkley and himself--the large wound observed by others, and shown in the autopsy photos.

2. The other 4 were pointing out where they thought there was a small entrance wound--long after such speculation became commonplace--or were pointing out where they thought they saw a wound in a photo...decades after being shown a photo. None of them were eyewitnesses to a wound in that location, which shouldn't come as a surprise, seeing as dozens of people got a glimpse at JFK's head and none of them saw an entrance wound in that location. 

From Kilduff's 3/15/1976 oral history for the JFK Library “the left side of his head was a bloody mass”

 

Michigan City News-Dispatch, 10/26/1977, Kilduff: “His head was just a mass of blood...It looked like hamburger meat”

 

On 4/17/1991, Malcolm Kilduff talked to Harrison Livingstone. When Livingstone said “As you know, the face was not damaged at all. No witness saw any damage to the head past the midline of the skull, forward of the right ear”, Kilduff confusingly replied “Forward of the right ear? No! Forward of the left ear, they did. I did. The bullet came in on the right side and exited the left side. What splatter there was”. Kilduff may have meant “left” to mean the anatomical right, as he also said “...the left part of his forehead looked like—when I got over to the car—looked like two pounds of ground beef”, “The blow-out was in the left front. The Zapruder film shows that. Frames 313, 314, 315” (High Treason 2 by Harrison Livingstone, 1992, p. 447, Chapter 21. The Presidential Party, Malcolm Kilduff).

 

Gary Mack posted a comment to alt.assassination.jfk on 12/29/1999, regarding the Parkland press conference of 11/22/1963 (Link):

 

The soundtrack reveals that Kilduff said only, "It was a simple matter, Tom (Wicker), of a bullet right through the head." He did not indicate whether it went in or came out at that location. Kilduff confirmed that to me just last month and said his information came from Dr. Perry.

 

A post by Gary Mack on 1/3/2000 reads (Link):

 

Kilduff does, in fact, credit Burkley for the information, according to the soundtrack of the film. On his recent visit to Dallas, Kilduff told me he got his information from Perry. I suspect his conversation was with Burkley, the president's physician, as it would have been more appropriate than talking to Perry, a stranger. Still, he could have spoken with both.

 

Gary Mack posted a comment to alt.assassination.jfk on 12/29/1999, regarding the Parkland press conference of 11/22/1963 (Link):

 

The soundtrack reveals that Kilduff said only, "It was a simple matter, Tom (Wicker), of a bullet right through the head." He did not indicate whether it went in or came out at that location. Kilduff confirmed that to me just last month and said his information came from Dr. Perry.

 

A post by Gary Mack on 1/3/2000 reads (Link):

 

Kilduff does, in fact, credit Burkley for the information, according to the soundtrack of the film. On his recent visit to Dallas, Kilduff told me he got his information from Perry. I suspect his conversation was with Burkley, the president's physician, as it would have been more appropriate than talking to Perry, a stranger. Still, he could have spoken with both.

 

For some, this information may rekindle the suspicion that the Associated Press was telling the truth when it reported “...Perry said the entrance wound was in the front of the head” (Associated Press, United Press International and Dow Jones teletype reports of the Kennedy assassination, Sheet 10; Tri-City Herald, 11/22/1963, Bullet Entered Front Of Head; Oakland Tribune, 11/22/1963, Front Of Head; Surgeon Describes The Wound; Lancaster New Era, 11/22/1963, Doctors Took Prompt Action; The Hammond Times, 11/22/1963, Doctors Tell Of Trying To Save J.F.K.; Albuquerque Tribune, 11/22/1963, Treatment Described [link 2]; Associated Press, Charlotte News, 11/22/1963, President Kennedy Slain; Assassin Eludes Dragnet; AP, Telegraph-Herald, 11/22/1963, Physician Says Bullet Entered Front of Head; Newsday, 11/22/1963, Kennedy Slain: Shot by Dallas Assassin; Johnson Is New President; Great Falls Tribune, 11/23/1963, President’s Wound in Head, Neck; Hartford Courant, 11/23/1963, Surgeon Tells Of Efforts to Save President).

 

As it is written on your website, patspeer.com:

 

[...Chapter 18c: Reason to Doubt, By Way of Illustration]

 

[...] We should consider, as well, Kilduff's subsequent statements to Gary Mack, in which he confirmed that when he pointed to his temple during the 11-22-63 press conference he was pointing to, in Mack's words, "where the big hole was on Kennedy's head." (Note: I can't remember where I got this quote from Mack...via an article, a taped interview, or a personal email. If you know the answer, please remind me. As it stands, I've tracked down a 12-29-99 post from Mack on the alt.assassination.JFK newsgroup in which he claims Kilduff told him but a month before that he didn't intend to specify the wound by the temple as an entrance or an exit in the 11-22-63 press conference, and that he was merely pointing out the location of the wound.)

 

Also, Crenshaw did not exactly say that he saw a small head wound. He is on the record saying that he thought the large head wound was caused by a tangential wound, and that there was only a spot of blood on his left temple that might've looked like a wound at a glance. Crenshaw died in 2001, however in 2013 his former co-writer Jens Hansen (who was implicated in not only taking unacceptable creative liberties with Crenshaw's original story, but also losing a 11/23/1963 journal and a 1990 manuscript that Crenshaw claimed he made but didn't copy), says in the afterword of the 50th anniversary reskin, title changed from "JFK: Conspiracy of Silence" to "JFK Has Been Shot":

 

Dr. Crenshaw also saw three small wounds on the right side of the president’s face, but the horrendous brain damage, by comparison, caused these minor injuries to be ignored. When President Kennedy was embalmed, Thomas Evan Robinson, the mortician, confirmed a small wound in the temple and two other small wounds in the face. It is believed by some researchers that one of the bullets shot at the president struck the ground in front or to the side of the limousine, causing chipped cement fragments to act as shrapnel and hit the right side of President Kennedy’s face. These wounds were packed with wax.

Edited January 1 by Micah Mileto

[Keven Hofeling]

On 12/29/2023 at 3:02 PM, Pat Speer said:

OMG. 

Do the research. Stop coughing up what people selling books and theories want you to believe. When you read the statements and testimony of the Dealey Plaza witnesses, the Parkland witnesses, and the Bethesda witnesses they are united on one front. They saw one large wound. Period. No one saw two. Period.

The first witnesses demonstrated the location on their own skulls...by the temple.

This meme is disseminated in the JFK research groups by Warren Commission apologists as a slightly more sophisticated proof that there was no back-of-the-head wound than the utterly absurd argument that the members of the Parkland Trauma Team did not bother to inspect the back of the President's head and therefore could not possibly know of the existence of the large wound in the occipital-parietal region.

The Pat Speer.com version of this tactic throws photos of Gail Newman and Malcolm Kilduff into the mix in support of the baseless claim -- which you repeat in your comment -- that all of the Dealey Plaza witnesses referred only to one large head wound, and that they all located that large head wound at JFK's right temple. Like your claims about the Parkland Hospital and Bethesda Autopsy witnesses, your assertions about the Dealey Plaza witnesses do not withstand scrutiny. Practically the entire Secret Service Detail and multiple lay witnesses describe the same blown out right side of the back of JFK's head that the Parkland doctors and nurses would later report; and contrary to your claims, the accounts of some of these witnesses do indeed demonstrate recognition of a frontal entrance wound AND a large rear exit wound from which blood, brain and skull was rearwardly ejected at high velocity.

Pat Speer.com attempts to contend with the historical abundance of back-of-the-head wound evidence and testimony through a combination of hair-splitting, parlor trick sleights of hand, and outright character assassination and demonization -- all tactics that would be unnecessary but for the absence of supporting evidence and common sense for your positions. Take, for example, your treatment of Dealey Plaza witness Charles Brehm: it is implied that by 1966 Brehm was embellishing his memories to include a back-of-the-head wound and rearward flying biological debris; it is presumed that his lack of expertise in ballistics impugns his credibility rather than enhances it; and  attempts are made to impute sinister implications to an inconsequential pause in Brehm's speech, and to gaslight readers into believing that Brehm has a finger in the palm of his hand pointing to his right ear when, in fact, his actual fingers are resting upon the occipital-parietal region of the back of his head. Unfortunately, with PatSpeer.com, such tactics are the rule rather than the exception. Accordingly, it is respectfully requested that another cut and paste job from PatSpeer.com is not employed to respond to this post, particularly considering that same would be unresponsive to the information in this post that your site is calculated to evade.

CHARLES BREHM HIT PIECE EXCERPTED FROM PATSPEER.COM

_________

SECRET SERVICE AGENT WILLIAM GREER was asked by Arlen Specter for the Warren Commission to describe the head wound he saw at Bethesda. Greer said, "I would--to the best of my recollection it was in this part of the head right here." Specter immediately asked, "Upper right?" Greer: "Upper right side." Specter: "Upper right side, going toward the rear. and what was the condition of the skull at that point?" Greer: "The skull was completely--this part was completely gone." [Warren Comm-- V2:127]

I wish there was a photograph of Greer's hand gesture, but nevertheless, in the context of the aggregate of all of the Dealey Plaza testimony it is clear the Greer is referring to the right side of the back of JFK's head.

_________

SECRET SERVICE AGENT ROY KELLERMAN under oath before the Warren Commission explained the head wound he saw to Arlen Specter, "He had a large wound this size." Specter: "Indicating a circle with your finger of the diameter of 5 inches would that be approximately correct?" (sic) Kellerman: "Yes, circular; yes, on this part of the head." Specter: "Indicating the rear portion of the head." Kellerman: "Yes." Specter: "More to the right side of the head." Kellerman: "Right. This was removed." Specter: "When you say, "This was removed", what do you mean by this?" Kellerman: "The skull part was removed." Specter: "All right." Kellerman: "To the left of the (right) ear, sir, and a little high; yes...(I recall that this portion of the rear portion of the skull) was absent when I saw him." [WC-V2:80- 81]

Kellerman's 8/24/1977 HSCA sketch of JFK's wounds is somewhat confusing because he has reversed the locations of the wounds (putting the back wound of the right side rather than the left and likewise reversing the large occipital-parietal wound from the right side to the left), but his sketch confirms that he remembered the large avulsive wound was on the back of JFK's head rather than on the top or side of JFK's head. Furthermore, his sketch and corresponding WC testimony tends to confirm the existence of the second gunshot wound to the back of JFK's head:

Any doubt about the actual location of the large back-of-the-head wound Kellerman observed is resolved by his testimony about viewing the wound in the morgue:

Mr. SPECTER. I would like to develop your understanding and your observations
of the four wounds on President Kennedy.
Mr. KELLERMAN. OK. This all transpired in the morgue of the Naval Hospital
in Bethesda, sir. He had a large wound this size.
Mr. SPECTER. Indicating a circle with your finger of the diameter of 5 inches;
would that be approximately correct?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, circular; yes, on this part of the head.
Mr. SPECTER. Indicating the rear portion of the head.
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. More to the right side of the head?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Right. This was removed.
Mr. SPECTER. When you say, "This was removed," what do you mean by this?
Mr. KELLERMAN. The skull part was removed. [2 H 80-81]

Despite the confusion caused by the HSCA sketch, this testimony of Kellerman's observations about the large back-of the-head-wound in the morgue is powerful corroboration that it was located at the "rear portion of the head" on the right (and not on the left as in his HSCA sketch).
_________

SECRET SERVICE AGENT SAM KINNEY, who was driving the follow up car: “I saw one shot strike the President in the right side of the head. The President then fell to the seat to the left toward Mrs. Kennedy.” [11/30/1963 Statement: CE1024: 18H731] 

Kinney is referring to the right side of the back of JFK's head. We can be certain of this due to statements Kinney made when interviewed by Vince Palamara on 3/5/1994, as follows:

"...I had brain matter all over my windshield and left arm, that's how close we were to it ... It was the right rear part of his head ... Because that's the part I saw blow out. I saw hair come out, the pieces blow out, then the skin went back in -- an explosion in and out..." [3/5/1994 interview by Vince Palamara]

_________

SECRET SERVICE AGENT CLINT HILL: described the wounds he saw at Parkland as, "The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed...There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not, except for the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head." [WC--V2:141]

“As I lay over the top of the back seat I noticed a portion of the President’s head on the right rear side was missing and he was bleeding profusely. Part of his brain was gone. I saw a part of his skull with hair on it lying in the seat.” [Statement: CE1024: 18H742] 

After seeing the President's skull wound in Dealey Plaza, and after returning with the body to Bethesda Clint Hill was "summoned...down to the morgue to view the body (again) and to witness the damage of the gunshot wounds."--as agent Kellerman put it in his 11-29-63 report. (WC--CE #1024, Kellerman report of 11-29-63. In: WC--V18:26-27) Hill reported, "When I arrived the autopsy had been completed and...I observed another wound (in addition to the throat wound) on the right rear portion of the skull." [WC--CE#1024, V18:744]

"...Blood, brain matter, and bone fragments exploded from the back of the President's head. The President's blood, parts of his skull, bits of his brain were splattered all over me -- on my face, my clothes, in my hair..." [in his 2012 book "Mrs. Kennedy and Me: An Intimate Memoir"] 

_________

SECRET SERVICE AGENT PAUL LANDIS (Secret Service agent, on the right running-board of the follow up car), November 30, 1963: “I glanced towards the President and he still appeared to be fairly upright in his seat, leaning slightly towards Mrs. Kennedy with his head tilted slightly back. I think Mrs. Kennedy had her right arm around the President’s shoulders at this time. I also remember Special Agent Clinton Hill attempting to climb onto the back of the President’s car. It was at this moment that I heard a second report and it appeared that the President’s head split open with a muffled exploding sound. I can best describe the sound as I heard it, as the sound you would get by shooting a high powered bullet into a five gallon can of water or shooting into a mellon [sic]. I saw pieces of flesh and blood flying through the air ….” [Statement: CE1024: 18H755]

Landis's statement to the WC was not very revealing as to the location of the head wound. However, in the context of the publicity surrounding the release of his 2023 book, Landis was asked about the location of the large head wound and he demonstrated with his hand that the large wound was in the occipital-parietal region on the right side of the back of JFK's head, as seen in the video below:

 

_________

SECRET SERVICE AGENT GEORGE HICKEY (Secret Service agent, in the follow-up car), November 30, 1963: “It looked to me as if the President was struck in the right upper rear of his head. The first shot of the second two seemed as if it missed because the hair on the right side of his head flew forward and there didn’t seem to be any impact against his head. The last shot seemed to hit his head and cause a noise at the point of impact which made him fall forward and to his left again.” [Statement sent to Special Agent in Charge of White House Detail, Gerald A. Behn: 18H762] 

“Nothing was observed and I turned and looked at the President’s car. The President was slumped to the left in the car and I observed him come up. I heard what appeared to be two shots and it seemed as if the right side of his head was hit and his hair flew forward.” [Statement: 18H765]  

Clearly, Hickey is another back-of-the-head witness...

_________

SECRET SERVICE AGENT EMORY ROBERTS (Secret Service agent, in the follow-up car), November 29, 1963: “I do not know if it was the next shot or the third shot that hit the President in the head, but I saw what appeared to be a small explosion on the right side of the President’s head ….” [Statement: CE1024: 18H734] 

Considering that all of the Secret Service Agents above were referring to the right side of the back of JFK's head when referencing "the right side," there is no reason not to assume that Robert's was also referring to the right side of the back of JFK's head, and this Roberts is also a back-of-the-head witness.

_________

DALLAS MOTORCYCLE PATROLMAN BOBBY HARGIS: "...When President Kennedy straightened back up in the car the bullet hit him in the head, the one that killed him and it seemed like his head exploded, and I was splattered with blood and brain, and a kind of bloody water..." [4/8/1964 Warren Commission testimony]

"... As the President straightened back up, Mrs. Kennedy turned toward him, and that was when he got hit in the side of his head, spinning it around. I was splattered with blood. Then I felt something hit me. It could have been concrete or something, but I thought at first I might have been hit...." [11/24/1963 article in the New York Daily News]

The biological debris that impacted Hargis at such a velocity that he thought he'd been shot is consistent with Secret Service Agent Sam Kinney's description of seeing the biological debris ejected from the back of JFK's head, and thus Hargis is a back-of-the-head witness as well.

_________

FIRST LADY JACQUELINE KENNEDY: "I was trying to hold his hair on. From the front there was nothing -- I suppose there must have been. But from the back you could see, you know, you were trying to hold his hair on, and his skull on. .... I could see a piece of his skull sort of wedge-shaped, like that, and I remember that it was flesh colored with little ridges at the top." [June 5, 1964 Warren Commission Testimony]

_________

DEALEY PLAZA WITNESS BILL NEWMAN: "...I can remember seeing the side of the President's ear and head come off. I remember a flash of white and the red and just bit and pieces of flesh exploding from the President's head..." [Bill Newman interviewed about the JFK assassination -- 0:13-0:27 -- https://youtu.be/EEhlbAwI7Zg?t=14]

As Bill Newman demonstrated in the interview above, in addition to the right temple entry wound that he famously pointed out on the day of the assassination, he was also conscious of the biological debris being ejected from the back of JFK's head, thus making him a Dealey Plaza witness who reported two wounds to JFK's head.

_________

DEALEY PLAZA WITNESS CHARLES BREHM:

Mark Lane: 0:15 Did you see the effects of the bullets upon the President?

Charles Brehm: 0:21 When the second bullet hit there was a [Brehm puts his hand on the right side of the back of his head to demonstrate], hair seemed to go flying, uh it was very definite then that he was struck in the head with the second bullet, and uh, yes I very definitely saw the effects of the second bullet.

Mark Lane: 0:38 Did you see any particles of the President's skull fly when the bullet struck him in the head?

Charles Brehm: 0:46 I saw a piece fly over in the area of the curb where I was standing.

Mark Lane: 0:53 In which direction did that fly?

Charles Brehm: 0:56 It seemed to have come left and back...."

[Charles Brehm interviewed about JFK assassination by Mark Lane for the 1967 documentary "Rush to Judgment": https://youtu.be/RsnHXywKIKs]

_________

DEALEY PLAZA WITNESS MARILYN WILLIS: "...The head shot seemed to come from the right front. It seemed to strike him here [gesturing to her upper right forehead, up high at the hairline], and his head went back, and all of the brain matter went out the back of the head. It was like a red halo, a red circle, with bright matter in the middle of it -- It just went like that..." [Marilyn Willis from 24:26-24:58 of TMWKK, Episode 1, at following link cued in advance for you https://youtu.be/BW98fHkbuD8?t=1466]

 

Marilyn Willis appears to be another Dealey Plaza witness who was conscious of both the small entry wound in the front of JFK's head and the large exit wound in the back of his head.

_________

DEALEY PLAZA WITNESS JEAN HILL (on the south side of Elm Street, near the Presidential limousine at the time of the shots), March 13, 1964: “Mrs. Hill heard more shots ring out and saw the hair on the back of President Kennedy’s head fly up.” [FBI report: 25H853–4]  

Jean Hill reported effects of the ejection of biological debris from the back of JFK's head and this is a back-of-the-head witness as well.

 

Edited January 9 by Keven Hofeling

[David Von Pein]

12 minutes ago, Keven Hofeling said:

...multiple lay witnesses describe the same blown out right side of the back of JFK's head.

You're not really suggesting that these photos below are implying that all three of these Dealey Plaza witnesses (Abe Zapruder, Bill Newman, and Gayle Newman) saw the "back of JFK's head" blown out, are you? Because these hands-on demonstrations are showing no such thing, of course:

 

 

Edited January 1 by David Von Pein

[Keven Hofeling]

4 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

You're not really suggesting that these photos below are implying that all three of these Dealey Plaza witnesses (Abe Zapruder, Bill Newman, and Gayle Newman) saw the "back of JFK's head" blown out, are you? Because these hands-on demonstrations are showing no such thing, of course:

 

 

Interestingly enough, I just replied to this post. You and I both pressed the submit button at exactly the same time.

There are indications that both Bill Newman and Abraham Zapruder DID see the blood, brains and skull that was blown out of the back of JFK's head.

Bill Newman described the biological debris as follows:

BILL NEWMAN: "...I can remember seeing the side of the President's ear and head come off. I remember a flash of white and the red and just bit and pieces of flesh exploding from the President's head..." [Bill Newman interviewed about the JFK assassination -- 0:13-0:27 -- https://youtu.be/EEhlbAwI7Zg?t=14] NOTE THAT VIDEO IS CUED IN ADVANCE FOR YOU.

Bill Newman, while describing the biological debris being blown out of JFK's head, makes a hand gesture over the lower right hand side of the back of his head, denoting the location where he saw the biological debris exiting JFK's head:

And Abraham Zapruder mentioned seeing the blood, brains and skull that was blown out of the back of JFK's head both in his Warren Commission testimony and in his Clay Shaw trial testimony:

Abraham Zapruder's Warren Commission testimony:

https://www.jfk-info.com/wc-zapr.htm

 

"...Mr. LIEBELER. He was sitting upright in the car and you heard the shot and
you saw the President slump over?
Mr. ZAPRUDER. Leaning-leaning toward the side of Jacqueline. For a moment
I thought it was. you know, like you say, “Oh, he got me,” when you hear a
shot - you’ve heard these expressions and then I saw - I don’t believe the Presi-
dent is going to make jokes like this, but before I had a chance to organize my
mind, I heard a second shot and then I saw his head opened up and the blood
and everything came out and I started - I cani hardly talk about it [the witness
crying].
Mr. LIEBELER. That’s all right, Mr. Zapruder, would you like a drink of water?
Why don’t you step out and have a drink of water?
Mr. ZAPRUDER. I’m sorry-I’m ashamed of myself really but I couldn't help it..."

 

Obviously, Zapruder was very traumatized by what he had seen through his viewfinder at the time of the headshot -- which certainly wasn't just the red mist cloud that appears in one frame for 1/18 of one second in the extant Zapruder film of today [more on this below].

 

Liebler didn't return to the topic, but Zapruder did near the end of the questioning:

"...Mr. ZAPRUDER. I am only sorry I broke down-1 didn’t know I was going to do it.
Mr.  LIEBELER. Mr. Zapruder, I want to thank you very much, for the Com-
mission, for coming down. It has been very helpful.
Mr. ZAPRUDER. Well, I am ashamed of myself. I didn’t know I was going
to break down and for a man to - but it was a tragic thing, and when you
started asking me that, and I saw the thing all over again, and it was an awful
thing-I know very few people who had seen it like that - it was an awful
thing and I loved the President, and to see that happen before my eyes - his
head just opened up and shot down like a dog - it leaves a very, very deep
sentimental impression with you; it’s terrible.
Mr. LIEBELEB. Well, you don’t have to feel ashamed about that at all, and
thank you very much. I enjoyed meeting you very much...."
 

Abraham Zapruder's Clay Shaw Trial Testimony:

https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/zapruder_shaw2.htm

 

In Abraham Zapruder's Clay Shaw trial testimony,  Zapruder recounts that JFK's "head practically opened up and a lot of blood and many more things came out", which is something many other witnesses attested to, but we don't see it in the extant Zapruder film of today:

 

"...Q: What did you see as you took your films in Dealey Plaza that day? Explain to the Jury.

A: ...As they were approaching where I was standing I heard a shot and noticed where the President leaned towards Jackie. Then I heard another shot which hit him right in the head, over here, and his head practically opened up and a lot of blood and many more things came out...."

 

A follow up question then results in Abraham Zapruder even more explicitly describing "the head practically open[ed] up and blood and many more things, whatever it was, just came out of his head." This confirms for us that Abraham Zapruder at the time of the Clay Shaw trial -- exactly like his business partner Erwin Schwartz -- remembered imagery from the camera-original Zapruder film from their repeated viewings during the weekend of the assassination, depicting blood, brain and skull being ejected from the back of JFK's head; imagery that has been completely excised from the extant Zapruder film:

 

"...Q: As you saw it, what happened at the time the second shot went off in regard to President Kennedy? What did you see?

A: I thought I just described what I saw. You mean where it hit him?

Q: Yes.

A: I saw the head practically open up and blood and many more things, whatever it was, brains, just came out of his head...."

 

Abraham Zapruder's Clay Shaw trial testimony, as recited above, is further supported by the fact that Zapruder's business partner, Erwin Schwartz, who accompanied Zapruder on the day of the assassination to the Kodak and Jamieson lab as he developed his camera original film, and viewed the camera-original film at least 15 times during that weekend, on November 21, 1994 reported to Noel Twyman, author of Bloody Treason, that he recalled seeing bloody exit debris leaving the back of President Kennedy's head and traveling to the left rear when he viewed the original film at Kodak. Noel Twyman wrote in Bloody Treason:

 

"...When I interviewed Erwin Swartz, I asked him several questions about what he saw on the film when he first viewed it in its original state at Eastman Kodak. [In a footnote, Twyman made clear that Schwartz was referring to first viewing the film in its 16 mm wide, unslit state at the Kodak plant in Dallas.]...I also asked him to describe what he saw at the instant of the fatal head shot. His answer was very descriptive. He said he saw Kennedy's head suddenly whip around to the left (counter-clockwise). I also asked him if he saw the explosion of blood and brains out of the head. He replied that he did. I asked him if he noticed which direction the eruption went. He pointed back over his left shoulder. He said, "It went this way." I said, "You mean it went to the left and rear?" He said, "Yes." Bartholomew then asked him, "Are you sure that you didn't see the blood and brains going up and to the front?" Schwartz said, "No; it was to the left and rear." We went over this several times with him to be certain he was clear on this point. He was very clear. Of course. Schwartz's statement that the blood and brains went back to the rear and left was completely consistent with all of the eyewitnesses who said they saw the rear of Kennedy's head blow out and brain and blood go to the rear. It was also consistent with Dallas motorcycle policeman Bobby Hargis's testimony that he was riding to the rear and the left of limousine and was splattered with blood and brains...So here we have testimony from a man who first saw the original Zapruder film (he said he looked- at it at least fifteen times over the weekend)...who...saw the eruption of blood and brains in a direction opposite [to] what we now see on the Zapruder film...."

 

Note that there are no pieces of skull or brain being "blasted out" of the back of JFK's head at Z-313 of the Zapruder film as there should be (See slow motion clip of Zapruder film headshot sequence  below). Visible in the extant "original" Zapruder film is only a fine red mist suspended in the air for 1/18 of one second (frame Z-313 only), while all of the witnesses in real time on the ground in Dealey Plaza described an entirely different debris trail consisting of voluminous blood, brain and skull that was blown out of the back of JFK's head (Charles Brehm: "IT SEEMED TO HAVE COME LEFT AND BACK"), not the front, as you can see from the witness accounts directly below.

--------------------------------------------------------
WITNESS ACCOUNTS OF BLOOD AND BRAINS EXITING THE BACK OF JFK'S HEAD:

Clint Hill, Samuel Kinney, Bobby Hargis, Bill Newman, Marilyn Willis, Harry Holmes, Charles Brehm, Abraham Zapruder, Erwin Schwartz and Dino Brugioni.
__________
"...BLOOD, BRAIN MATTER, AND BONE FRAGMENTS EXPLODED FROM THE BACK OF THE PRESIDENT'S HEAD. THE PRESIDENT'S BLOOD, PARTS OF HIS SKULL, BITS OF HIS BRAIN WERE SPLATTERED ALL OVER ME -- ON MY FACE, MY CLOTHES, IN MY HAIR..."

Secret Service Agent Clint Hill (in his 2012 book "Mrs. Kennedy and Me: An Intimate Memoir").
__________
"...I HAD BRAIN MATTER ALL OVER MY WINDSHIELD AND LEFT ARM, THAT'S HOW CLOSE WE WERE TO IT ... IT WAS THE RIGHT REAR PART OF HIS HEAD ... BECAUSE THAT'S THE PART I SAW BLOW OUT. I SAW HAIR COME OUT, THE PIECES BLOW OUT, THEN THE SKIN WENT BACK IN -- AN EXPLOSION IN AND OUT..."

Secret Service Agent Samuel Kinney (3/5/1994 interview by Vince Palamara).
__________
"...WHEN PRESIDENT KENNEDY STRAIGHTENED BACK UP IN THE CAR THE BULLET HIT HIM IN THE HEAD, THE ONE THAT KILLED HIM AND IT SEEMED LIKE HIS HEAD EXPLODED, AND I WAS SPLATTERED WITH BLOOD AND BRAIN, AND KIND OF A BLOODY WATER...."

Dallas Motorcycle Patrolman Bobby Hargis (4/8/1964 Warren Commission testimony).
__________
"...I CAN REMEMBER SEEING THE SIDE OF THE PRESIDENT'S EAR AND HEAD COME OFF. I REMEMBER A FLASH OF WHITE AND THE RED AND JUST BITS AND PIECES OF FLESH EXPLODING FROM THE PRESIDENT'S HEAD..."

Dealey Plaza witness Bill Newman interviewed about the JFK assassination -- 0:13-0:27 -- https://youtu.be/EEhlbAwI7Zg?t=13
__________
"...THE HEAD SHOT SEEMED TO COME FROM THE RIGHT FRONT. IT SEEMED TO STRIKE HIM HERE [gesturing to her upper right forehead, up high at the hairline], AND HIS HEAD WENT BACK, AND ALL OF THE BRAIN MATTER WENT OUT THE BACK OF THE HEAD. IT WAS LIKE A RED HALO, A RED CIRCLE, WITH BRIGHT MATTER IN THE MIDDLE OF IT - IT JUST WENT LIKE THAT...."

Dealey Plaza witness Marilyn Willis from 24:26-24:58 of TMWKK, Episode 1, at following link cued in advance for you https://youtu.be/BW98fHkbuD8?t=1466 ).
__________
"...THERE WAS JUST A CONE OF BLOOD AND CORRUPTION THAT WENT RIGHT IN THE BACK OF HIS HEAD AND NECK. I THOUGHT IT WAS RED PAPER ON A FIRECRACKER. IT LOOKED LIKE A FIRECRACKER LIT UP WHICH LOOKS LIKE LITTLE BITS OF RED PAPER AS IT GOES UP. BUT IN REALITY IT WAS HIS SKULL AND BRAINS AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT WENT PERHAPS AS MUCH AS SIX OR EIGHT FEET. JUST LIKE THAT!..."

Dealey Plaza witness and Postal Inspector Harry Holmes. Murder from Within (1974), Fred Newcomb and Perry Adams, p. 213. 
__________
"...Charles Brehm: 0:21 WHEN THE SECOND BULLET HIT, THERE WAS, THE HAIR SEEMED TO GO FLYING. IT WAS VERY DEFINITE THEN THAT HE WAS STRUCK IN THE HEAD WITH THE SECOND BULLET, AND, UH, YES, I VERY DEFINITELY SAW THE EFFECT OF THE SECOND BULLET.

Mark Lane: 0:38 Did you see any particles of the President's skull fly when the bullet struck him in the head?

Charles Brehm: 0:46 I SAW A PIECE FLY OVER OH IN THE AREA OF THE CURB WHERE I WAS STANDING.

Mark Lane: 0:53 In which direction did that fly?

Charles Brehm: 0:56 IT SEEMED TO HAVE COME LEFT AND BACK...."

Dealey Plaza witness Charles Brehm interviewed about JFK assassination by Mark Lane for the 1967 documentary "Rush to Judgment": https://youtu.be/RsnHXywKIKs
__________
"...I SAW THE HEAD PRACTICALLY OPEN UP AND BLOOD AND MANY MORE THINGS, WHATEVER IT WAS, BRAINS, JUST CAME OUT OF HIS HEAD...."

Testimony of Dealey Plaza witness Abraham Zapruder -- who filmed the assassination -- at the Clay Shaw trial -- https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/zapruder_shaw2.htm
__________
"...I also asked him if he saw the explosion of blood and brains out of the head. He replied that he did. I asked him if he noticed which direction the eruption went. He pointed back over his left shoulder. He said, "IT WENT THIS WAY." I said, "You mean it went to the left and rear?" He said, "YES." Bartholomew then asked him, "Are you sure that you didn't see the blood and brains going up and to the front?" Schwartz said, "NO; IT WAS TO THE LEFT AND REAR...."

Excerpt from interview of Erwin Schwartz -- Abraham Zapruder's business partner -- who accompanied Zapruder to develop the camera-original Zapruder film, and saw the camera-original projected more than a dozen times. Bloody Treason by Noel Twyman.
__________
"...Brugioni's most vivid recollection of the Zapruder film was "...OF JFK'S BRAINS FLYING THROUGH THE AIR." He did not use the term 'head explosion,' but rather referred to apparent exit debris seen on the film the night he viewed it. "...AND WHAT I'LL NEVER FORGET WAS -- I KNEW THAT HE HAD BEEN ASSASSINATED -- BUT WHEN WE ROLLED THE FILM AND I SAW A GOOD PORTION OF HIS HEAD FLYING THROUGH THE AIR, THAT SHOCKED ME, AND THAT SHOCKED EVERYBODY WHO WAS THERE..."

Excerpt from interview of Dino Brugioni -- Photoanalyst at the CIA's National Photographic Interpretation Center -- who viewed the camera-original Zapruder film the evening of 11/23/1963. Douglas Horne, Inside the Assassination Records Review Board" , 2009, Volume IV, Chapter 14, page 1329.

__________

Z-311 THROUGH Z-316 SHOWING TOTAL ABSENCE OF BLOOD, BRAIN AND SKULL

Edited January 1 by Keven Hofeling

[Sandy Larsen]

2 hours ago, Keven Hofeling said:

This meme is disseminated in the JFK research groups by Warren Commission apologists as a slightly more sophisticated proof that there was no back-of-the-head wound than the utterly absurd argument that the members of the Parkland Trauma Team did not bother to inspect the back of the President's head and therefore could not possibly know of the existence of the large wound in the occipital-parietal region.

 

Keven,

Welcome to the forum!

You're doing a great job undoing the damage that Pat Speer's misinformation campaign would otherwise do to the CT cause. I am often the forum member who takes on that task, and so you've given me a nice break. Plus you do a much more thorough debunking than I've ever done. I usually stick to just the Parkland Hospital doctor and nurse witnesses and use Gary Aguilar's list as a reference. (With the pre-autopsy surgery and brain swapping done in Bethesda, I find arguments based on those witnesses to be overly complicated.)

Pat Speer's methodology seems to be that he avoids as much as possible the use of government alteration of evidence. Which is an odd thing to most people given that cover-ups typically do employ alteration of evidence.

What this means with regard to what Pat believes is that, if a possible alteration isn't needed to prove a conspiracy, then one should at all costs avoid the acceptance of that alteration. In other words, Pat's primary goal is to prove a conspiracy, NOT to discover what the truth is.

In contrast -- and I will speak only for myself -- my goal is to seek what the truth is... period.

I currently accept the fact that a conspiracy took place and that Oswald wasn't a shooter on 11/22. And that there was a U.S. government cover up designed to place the full blame on Oswald. That's been proven to my satisfaction. But I am in search of further information, and accomplishing that goal requires continued search for the truth. If that means identifying more alterations of evidence, so be it.

Pat Speer has accomplished his goal and is finished. But he continues arguing because the work and conclusions of others undermine many of his conclusions.

You will find that you cannot change Pat's mind on anything. He's an ideologue if there ever was one.

 

[David Von Pein]

..........

Edited January 1 by David Von Pein

[Sandy Larsen]

3 hours ago, Keven Hofeling said:

 

 

BTW, I see you live in Salt Lake City.

I'm also a resident of Utah. I  grew up in the Orem/Provo area, and now live in Spanish Fork.

 

[Keven Hofeling]

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

BTW, I see you live in Salt Lake City.

I'm also a resident of Utah. I  grew up in the Orem/Provo area, and now live in Spanish Fork.

 

Cool. That would make you the first seriously devoted fellow JFK researcher I have met during the forty or so years that I've been at this. Good to meet you. I have a great deal of appreciation for Dr. Aguilar's work too and have noticed that Speer refuses to respond to it (or basically anything that sinks his ship). In my book that is dogmatism in its purest form. If I ever reach a point that I am no longer capable of learning anything new about the assassination, I'll start looking for a new interest.

 

 

------------------------------------------------
This is a link to Dr. Gary Aguilar's compilation of the earliest testimony of the Parkland AND Bethesda witnesses -- http://www.assassinationweb.com/ag6.htm -- and the following chart is in part based upon the the witness accounts outlined in the article by Dr. Gary Aguilar:
--------------------------------------------------
DR. GARY AGUILAR'S APPENDIX - TABLES AND FIGURES:

https://history-matters.com/essays/jfkmed/How5Investigations/How5InvestigationsGotItWrong_tabfig.htm

[Pat Speer]

5 hours ago, Keven Hofeling said:

Cool. That would make you the first seriously devoted fellow JFK researcher I have met during the forty or so years that I've been at this. Good to meet you. I have a great deal of appreciation for Dr. Aguilar's work too and have noticed that Speer refuses to respond to it (or basically anything that sinks his ship). In my book that is dogmatism in its purest form. If I ever reach a point that I am no longer capable of learning anything new about the assassination, I'll start looking for a new interest.

 

 

------------------------------------------------
This is a link to Dr. Gary Aguilar's compilation of the earliest testimony of the Parkland AND Bethesda witnesses -- http://www.assassinationweb.com/ag6.htm -- and the following chart is in part based upon the the witness accounts outlined in the article by Dr. Gary Aguilar:
--------------------------------------------------
DR. GARY AGUILAR'S APPENDIX - TABLES AND FIGURES:

https://history-matters.com/essays/jfkmed/How5Investigations/How5InvestigationsGotItWrong_tabfig.htm

I'm sorry but you have no idea what you are talking about. The stuff you are regurgitating has been discussed ad nauseam. Some has been debunked. Some has not.

The bottom line is this. If one is to "trust" the witnesses' then one has to acknowledge that what they said does not support that there was a blow-out wound low on the back of the head. The majority of witnesses pointed to a location above the ear, above the occipital bone. The Harper fragment was thereby not occipital bone, and the doctors thereby did not see cerebellum, but only macerated brain.

And that's a problem for "theorists" (as opposed to researchers). Theorists NEED the back of the head to be blown out so they can delight in the correctness of their theory, and PRETEND the witnesses are pointing to a location low on the back of the head when they are not, and gobble up crapola like this most recent documentary like it is manna from heaven, when it is essentially a scam. 

As I said...do the research. If you do you will realize that many of the Parkland doctors were not conspiracy theorists and did not believe the back of the head was blown out. Heck, in 1963, McClelland told a writer suspecting shots came from the front that there was nothing about the head wound to indicate a shot came from the front. 

P.S. I hope my eyes deceived me, but I think I saw you claim I was both a Warren Commission apologist, and afraid of or unaware of Gary's writings...

This is so wrong it's almost funny. Almost, but not quite... 

P.P.S. I started to look back through your massive post to see if there was anything worth reading, and saw a description of my discussion of Charles Brehm as "a hit piece." This is one of the dumbest things ever written on this forum. If you knew anything about Brehm, you'd know he was not a conspiracy theorist. In the image you present he is pointing to the side of his head where he thought he saw an explosion on the skull. This supports the authenticity of the autopsy photos, and not the low back of the head blow-out conjured up in the conspiracy literature. If you knew anything about me, for that matter, you'd know I consider Brehm one of the most credible witnesses, as he stood by his belief the first shot struck Kennedy, and a third shot was fired after the head shot, long after the LN crowd had taken to claiming the first shot missed, and the third shot was the head shot. "Hit piece", my rump. 

Edited January 1 by Pat Speer

[Pat Speer]

5 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Keven,

Welcome to the forum!

You're doing a great job undoing the damage that Pat Speer's misinformation campaign would otherwise do to the CT cause. I am often the forum member who takes on that task, and so you've given me a nice break. Plus you do a much more thorough debunking than I've ever done. I usually stick to just the Parkland Hospital doctor and nurse witnesses and use Gary Aguilar's list as a reference. (With the pre-autopsy surgery and brain swapping done in Bethesda, I find arguments based on those witnesses to be overly complicated.)

Pat Speer's methodology seems to be that he avoids as much as possible the use of government alteration of evidence. Which is an odd thing to most people given that cover-ups typically do employ alteration of evidence.

What this means with regard to what Pat believes is that, if a possible alteration isn't needed to prove a conspiracy, then one should at all costs avoid the acceptance of that alteration. In other words, Pat's primary goal is to prove a conspiracy, NOT to discover what the truth is.

In contrast -- and I will speak only for myself -- my goal is to seek what the truth is... period.

I currently accept the fact that a conspiracy took place and that Oswald wasn't a shooter on 11/22. And that there was a U.S. government cover up designed to place the full blame on Oswald. That's been proven to my satisfaction. But I am in search of further information, and accomplishing that goal requires continued search for the truth. If that means identifying more alterations of evidence, so be it.

Pat Speer has accomplished his goal and is finished. But he continues arguing because the work and conclusions of others undermine many of his conclusions.

You will find that you cannot change Pat's mind on anything. He's an ideologue if there ever was one.

 

What a load! I am hurting the "cause"???

Over the past 20 years I have added more pieces to the Dealey Plaza puzzle than just about anyone. Here are just a few.

1. I created a video series demonstrating that the mystery photo shows the back of the head, and the EOP entry. This demolishes the Clark panel's and HSCA panel's claim there was no such entry, and that the photo shows an exit at the coronal suture. 

2. I located and shared the first detailed study of Mannlicher-Carcano ammunition, which proved that JFK's large head wound was many times larger than should have been expected, and that the WC and HSCA's explanation for this was nonsense.

3. I performed a detailed study of the report of the HSCA's trajectory analyst, and proved he claimed JFK was leaning forward before shot in the back, sat up, and was then shot in the head...which everyone knows to be b.s. I thereby debunked the report. 

4. I performed a detailed study of the single-bullet theory, including all the writings of WC counsel Arlen Specter and HSCA NAA consultant Vincent Guinn on the subject, which proved they were both flat-out XXXXX who'd pushed a theory they knew was unsupported by the evidence.

5. I studied the section on the shooting itself in Vincent Bugliosi's Reclaiming History, and compared what he claimed in his book against the footnotes supposedly supporting what he claimed in his book, and proved him to have misrepresented the statements of many of the witnesses, and for being as deceptive, if not more, than the conspiracy theorists he despised. 

6. I tracked the media's response to the 50th anniversary of the assassination in a blog, which ended up proving a clear bias within the media towards the single-assassin conclusion. This blog, moreover, has been cited in textbooks on media. 

7. And, oh yeah, I spent years re-typing and transcribing all the Dealey Plaza witness statements I could find, and created what was far and away the largest database of witness statements on the shooting. 

Now, there's probably 20 or 30 more. But the point has been made. 

So... What have you done, Sandy? 

Edited January 1 by Pat Speer

[Sandy Larsen]

1 hour ago, Pat Speer said:

So... What have you done, Sandy?

 

1. I proved that, according to U.S. regulations, postal money orders are required to have bank stamps when presented to a Federal Reserve Bank.
2. I proved that the stamps on postal money orders must be on the PMOs themselves, and not on the cash letter that accompanies PMOs.
3. I proved that Officer Marrion Baker ran toward the intersection of Elm and Houston streets, and not up the TSBD steps as claimed by the WC.
4. I identified the location of Gloria Calvery in both the Zapruder and Darnell films. This allowed me to identify Lovelady in Darnell, which had never been done before. This allowed me to prove that the WC got Shelley and Lovelady to lie in their testimony about walking around the railroad tracks and into the west door of the TSBD. And this allowed me to pretty much prove that the second-floor Oswald/Baker encounter was a WC fabrication. The later-discovered P. Parade Hosty note corroborated my claim. (Bart Kamp came to the same conclusion at around the same time, using a different methodology.)
5. I showed that Oswald was not a wife beater, and I identified the cause of her face bruises that started the wife-beating rumors. Her bruise occurred when she slipped and fell on her head, which was witnessed by Paul Gregory. He said the thump was so loud that he thought that Marina had seriously injured herself.
6. I proved that HARVEY and LEE Oswald were two different people by showing that LEE was missing a molar, whereas HARVEY wasn't.
7. I corroborated the evidence that LEE was missing a front tooth -- which he lost in a fight -- whereas HARVEY wasn't, thereby proving again that they were two different individuals. I did that by finding a dental record showing that LEE had a prosthetic tooth. In contrast, the exhumation of HARVEY showed that he had no missing teeth or prostheses.

 

[Keyvan Shahrdar]

It's important to emphasize that regardless of opinions or statements, facts remain facts. It seems that in this discussion, there are individuals who prefer narratives over factual evidence. Interestingly, some contradict themselves by alleging alterations in the Zapruder film, autopsy images, and X-rays by the government, and then paradoxically cite government officials to support their narrative. It's quite astonishing.

I recommend viewing the Nix Film below, which clearly illustrates the events surrounding JFK's assassination and the manner of his injury. This is not about crafting a story, but rather presenting undeniable evidence and facts.

My objective is to encourage people to focus on factual information rather than getting swayed by narratives.

 

[Pat Speer]

29 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

1. I proved that, according to U.S. regulations, postal money orders are required to have bank stamps when presented to a Federal Reserve Bank.
2. I proved that the stamps on postal money orders must be on the PMOs themselves, and not on the cash letter that accompanies PMOs.
3. I proved that Officer Marrion Baker ran toward the intersection of Elm and Houston streets, and not up the TSBD steps as claimed by the WC.
4. I identified the location of Gloria Calvery in both the Zapruder and Darnell films. This allowed me to identify Lovelady in Darnell, which had never been done before. This allowed me to prove that the WC got Shelley and Lovelady to lie in their testimony about walking around the railroad tracks and into the west door of the TSBD. And this allowed me to pretty much prove that the second-floor Oswald/Baker encounter was a WC fabrication. The later-discovered P. Parade Hosty note corroborated my claim. (Bart Kamp came to the same conclusion at around the same time, using a different methodology.)
5. I showed that Oswald was not a wife beater, and I identified the cause of her face bruises that started the wife-beating rumors. Her bruise occurred when she slipped and fell on her head, which was witnessed by Paul Gregory. He said the thump was so loud that he thought that Marina had seriously injured herself.
6. I proved that HARVEY and LEE Oswald were two different people by showing that LEE was missing a molar, whereas HARVEY wasn't.
7. I corroborated the evidence that LEE was missing a front tooth -- which he lost in a fight -- whereas HARVEY wasn't, thereby proving again that they were two different individuals. I did that by finding a dental record showing that LEE had a prosthetic tooth. In contrast, the exhumation of HARVEY showed that he had no missing teeth or prostheses.

 

Wow. 

One bit caught my eye. You claimed you proved "that the WC got Shelley and Lovelady to lie in their testimony about walking around the railroad tracks and into the west door of the TSBD." This is silly. The WC's attorneys thought Shelley and Lovelady re-entered the building by the rear loading dock and were shocked when they claimed they'd come in from the side, which drastically cut down the time involved. If you look closely, moreover, you'll find that the WC's exhibits fail to show this side entrance. It seems probable, then, that they wished to conceal the existence of this entrance/exit, which remained unguarded for some time after the assassination.

P.S. If you still believe Shelley and Lovelady lied about coming in the side, then how do you explain how they got there in time for Vickie Adams to see them when she came downstairs? I have to believe your delusion she never said that has imploded, as she repeated it in 1966 on the Mort Sahl show. I mean, you must know that by now. So how are you processing it? Is the tape of her on the show yet another fake? 

Edited January 1 by Pat Speer