New material uncovered! Ryder lived opposite the Randles

[Alan Ford]

3 minutes ago, Tony Krome said:

Link? I'll check it out. 

"The Guns of Dealey Plaza", by John S. Craig (Fair Play, Issue #11, July-August 1996:

[Tony Krome]

29 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Suppose one of the shooters used an Argentine Mauser. That would explain a lot (Dial Ryder's story, Mauser being first announced). But why would the FBI want to hide that fact and instead go with the Carcano as the weapon? And how could they decide upon doing that so quickly?

 

As I said years ago, I wish I could again find where Ruby referred to the hours after the assassination as a "rifle problem" or something similar.

[Alan Ford]

34 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Suppose one of the shooters used an Argentine Mauser. That would explain a lot (Dial Ryder's story, Mauser being first announced). But why would the FBI want to hide that fact and instead go with the Carcano as the weapon? And how could they decide upon doing that so quickly?

 

No doubt completely off-topic!

Does anyone else find the juxtaposition of these two accounts of the same event rather strange?

1. From Reclaiming History: 

"Detective Rose reaches down and picks up the blanket. It falls loosely over his arm—obviously empty. Marina lets out an audible gasp [...] Ruth Paine looks at Marina and sees that she is pale white. Ruth senses what that means. For a moment, Detective Rose thinks Marina might be about to faint."

2. Mrs. Ruth Paine, SS interview 11/26/63:

[Tony Krome]

2 minutes ago, Alan Ford said:

"The Guns of Dealey Plaza", by John S. Craig (Fair Play, Issue #11, July-August 1996:

hmm, first thing that comes to mind is Baker and his "third or fourth floor". But in reading the above where the author states, "Ellsworth claims he found the sniper's nest", that's not entirely correct, so the translation may be question.

[Alan Ford]

Just now, Tony Krome said:

hmm, first thing that comes to mind is Baker and his "third or fourth floor". But in reading the above where the author states, "Ellsworth claims he found the sniper's nest", that's not entirely correct

Well, we only know it's not entirely correct because we are forced to work off the narrative given by on-script law enforcement men................

[Sandy Larsen]

On 11/15/2023 at 4:41 PM, Tony Krome said:

Mrs. Peggie J Ryder lived at 2434 West 5th Irving at the time of the assassination.

 

Tony,

Just wondering why you mentioned only Peggie living at that address and not Dial. Were they divorced at the time?

 

[Tony Krome]

10 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Tony,

Just wondering why you mentioned only Peggie living at that address and not Dial. Were they divorced at the time?

 

Because I'm sticking to facts I know. I know Peggie ended up at Harvard, and I know Dial indicated that he spoke to his wife the weekend of the assassination. 

[Sandy Larsen]

1 hour ago, Tony Krome said:

Because I'm sticking to facts I know. I know Peggie ended up at Harvard, and I know Dial indicated that he spoke to his wife the weekend of the assassination. 

 

I take it, then, that Dial may have been living at that address with his wife.

But what about the car crash article? Does it even mention Dial? (I can't tell if what you posted is the whole article. It seems to be, but not sure.)

 

[Tony Krome]

21 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

I take it, then, that Dial may have been living at that address with his wife.

But what about the car crash article? Does it even mention Dial? (I can't tell if what you posted is the whole article. It seems to be, but not sure.)

 

Yes, that's the whole article. As I've stated, I can't find anything that indicates an enquiry at 2434 West 5th, which is most peculiar, as it affords a prime view of the Randle corner at a time when most people are hustling about, leaving home for work. Just like Wesley was. Even the most fanatical LNers would agree that a knock on that door would have been a most logical investigative procedure. I mean, they were alleging the weapon that was used to kill the President was walking past what is Peggie's corner. 

Add to that, the other mysterious house, 2511 West 5th, which it turns out had the Randle phone number, the house further up West 5th that had the guy that played for Ruby, and you start to wonder what else is going to be uncovered on West 5th.

Well, I have more, but I'm saving that for later.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

19 minutes ago, Tony Krome said:

Well, I have more, but I'm saving that for later.

 

This is very puzzling indeed. And very interesting. Thanks for sharing it with us.

 

[Tom Gram]

Just for context, here’s an FBI report on Bardwell Odum and another guy asking the neighbors if they saw Oswald that morning. All denials, and no 2434 W. Fifth: 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10408#relPageId=103

EDIT: Don’t know if this is of any use, but in this massive index of phone numbers from Weisberg, Dial Ryder’s home phone number is listed as BL 3-4876, Irving, Tx. Page 65: 

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/T Disk/Telephone Numbers/Item 06.pdf

Edited November 18, 2023 by Tom Gram

[Jean Ceulemans]

1 hour ago, Tom Gram said:

Just for context, here’s an FBI report on Bardwell Odum and another guy asking the neighbors if they saw Oswald that morning. All denials, and no 2434 W. Fifth: 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10408#relPageId=103

EDIT: Don’t know if this is any use, but in this massive index of phone numbers from Weisberg, Dial Ryder’s home phone number is listed as BL 3-4876, Irving, Tx. Page 65: 

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/T Disk/Telephone Numbers/Item 06.pdf

Good find ! 

[Greg Doudna]

"The Oswald rifle scope installation at the Irving Sport Shop of Monday, November 11, 1963"

https://www.scrollery.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Irving-Sport-Shop-109-pdf.pdf

[Jean Ceulemans]

23 hours ago, Tom Gram said:

Just for context, here’s an FBI report on Bardwell Odum and another guy asking the neighbors if they saw Oswald that morning. All denials, and no 2434 W. Fifth: 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10408#relPageId=103

EDIT: Don’t know if this is of any use, but in this massive index of phone numbers from Weisberg, Dial Ryder’s home phone number is listed as BL 3-4876, Irving, Tx. Page 65: 

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/T Disk/Telephone Numbers/Item 06.pdf

I remember seeing a small map (made with Paint or something like that) that showed the Paine and Randle house and some of the neighbours' houses, I do not recall if the names of those neighbours were listed.  

I don't think I saved it on my old PC (I'm uploading the back-ups to my new PC now).

It's not the well know map with Oswalds walking route, it showed more

Anyone ?

Edited November 19, 2023 by Jean Ceulemans

[Greg Doudna]

On 11/18/2023 at 7:20 AM, Tom Gram said:

Just for context, here’s an FBI report on Bardwell Odum and another guy asking the neighbors if they saw Oswald that morning. All denials, and no 2434 W. Fifth: 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10408#relPageId=103

EDIT: Don’t know if this is of any use, but in this massive index of phone numbers from Weisberg, Dial Ryder’s home phone number is listed as BL 3-4876, Irving, Tx. Page 65: 

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/T Disk/Telephone Numbers/Item 06.pdf

I see Odum checked with the people at 2438 W. Fifth, across the street from the Randles and Frazier, but not the next house, 2434 W. Fifth, Peggy Ryder (and Dial?). Maybe that house was judged beyond the scope of interest which was houses that could have seen Oswald walking to the Randle house the morning of Nov 22. 

And in the never-resolved question of the source of the anonymous phone calls that came in Sun Nov 24 tipping off the press and the FBI with the true information that Oswald had had his rifle sighted-in at the Irving Sport Shop ... Peggy Ryder was never interviewed, even though Dial said he had not told anyone about his Oswald work ticket except his wife. Did FBI have scruples against interviewing spouses in an attempt to find information about the other spouse that potentially could involve criminal charges (even though that never was the case with Dial)? 

In any case Odum becomes a second narrow miss failure to question Peggy Ryder. Still, Odum's near miss in interviewing her looks like coincidence.

Peggy Ryder would otherwise be a candidate for source of the leak that tipped off the FBI re the Oswald rifle sighting-in at the Irving Sport Shop if it were not for (a) the deep male voice of the caller of the two known anonymous phone calls on Sun Nov 24; and (b) one of the two anonymous calls was not to law enforcement but to a TV news station. 

That does not sound like Peggy Ryder going to either the DPD or FBI with a confidential tip on something she learned from her husband. Do "good citizen" phone calls to law enforcement (e.g. Peggy Ryder if so) also call to the press? I don't think so. Yet the leak was true information in the sense that Oswald had had the rifle sighted-in by Dial Ryder on Nov 11 (per argument for reasons in my paper), and if Dial or Peggy Ryder weren't the leak, it about comes down to the leak (source for the anonymous caller's information) being Oswald himself, via someone Oswald told, whether as part of a conveyance of the rifle or otherwise, as the source of the anonymous caller's information.