Should the Babushka Lady have been suspected as a possible gunman in the JFK assassination?

[Greg Doudna]

Should the Babushka Lady have been suspected as a possible gunman in the JFK assassination?

The new book, A Woman I Know, by Mary Haverstick, makes an argument that I don’t remember having seen raised before now, and in retrospect is that a little surprising: that the Babushka Lady, seen in photos and the Zapruder film photographing the presidential limousine a few feet from JFK when he was killed, is suspicious in the JFK assassination, and I don’t mean suspicious photos. 

I mean as in suspicion of being a shooter of JFK, who was only 33 feet away at the time of the fatal Z313 head shot.

Never mind that the author proposes a name in identification of Babushka Lady which may not be right, for that is a separate issue, even if it is found in the same book. 

I find the author’s central argument of the book convincing in unmasking famous aviator Jerrie Cobb as an important CIA officer and/or agent during the height of the Cold War and the Kennedy administration, in which she operated at times under her CIA persona as the now-famous and legendary CIA agent of the early 1960’s, the beautiful American woman (in published photos) who went to work for Castro in Cuba and other leftist causes, had adventures and was reputed to be a femme fatale, June Cobb. 

(In actuality, Jerrie Cobb comes across in this book, not explicitly outed but all but, as gay, not having romantic relationships with men, and the author suggests that stories of June Cobb’s sexual liaisons with men in her spy work, which added sizzle to the persona and the legend, were bogus. The author suggests Jerrie Cobb’s own claim of having a love affair with a male pilot in her autobiographical book is also manufactured. This took place at a time when Jerrie Cobb was in the forefront of attempting to break glass ceilings for women in an unsuccessful quest to become the first woman astronaut allowed to go into space, in which her image mattered, and mainstream America was less tolerant of alternative lifestyles.)

And I find believable the author’s report of a confession from Jerrie Cobb that she, Jerrie Cobb, was the pilot of a particular twin-engine aircraft that was reported on Nov 22, 1963, as idling and revving its engine at Redbird Airport south of Dallas, as that aircraft waited for hours on the runway ready to depart, evidently waiting for some passenger who never arrived, before finally flying away. People around the Redbird airport phoned in that plane’s behavior as suspicious in light of the president’s assassination that day. 

And, for reasons given below, I find of interest the author’s case for the possibility that Babushka Lady could have been a gunman.

But I do not think Jerrie Cobb, in the twin-engine at Redbird that day, was Babushka Lady in Dealey Plaza (commuting from, then returning to Redbird to resume piloting).   

Again, these are distinct issues. I believe the author got the first three points right (Jerrie Cobb as underlying CIA agent/alias June Cobb; Jerrie Cobb’s confession of being at Redbird on Nov 22, 1963; and justified suspicions surrounding the figure of Babushka Lady), but did not get the next step right: identification of those two figures as the same person. 

Three points well-argued and persuasive, the fourth not, without impeaching the arguments in favor of the first three points. That is the picture I wish to be kept in mind here.

Now to the Babushka Lady. 

First off, I have separately wondered (this is my, not the author’s, comment) if it is certain Babushka Lady was a woman. Babushka is wrapped up with coat and scarf and sunglasses and for all we know maybe wig presenting as a woman, but if it was a man who would know.

But to proceed with this mysterious her/him figure. The author cites: the wide-apart footing stance; not talking or relating to or associated with anyone else; failure of Babushka to become known at the time and the mystery of identification; the choice to stand several feet behind Brehm and Moorman et al standing at the curb, and with Brehm in the field of vision of Babushka’s photo-taking instead of Babushka choosing to stand at the curb for better and unobstructed photos; Babushka’s coolly remaining standing instead of falling to the ground like all around after JFK is hit; being very close to JFK, only 33 feet from JFK's head; a lack of panning of the box camera by Babushka as done by normal photographers but instead a stance with fixed aim of the camera held to the eye into which the JFK limousine drove into her camera's view (as if setup for an aim for a shot); the positioning of Babushka’s hands, with the right hand in agreement with holding the trigger of an aimed pistol close to the eyes inside the camera box, and the left hand on top of the camera box for control and cushioning of kickback if it was a pistol fired; the Secret Service’s routine checks of camera boxes today to see what is inside before letting anyone get close to a president; and no photos taken by the Babushka camera, nor the camera, ever having turned up. 

The suggestion is "Babushka Lady" could have had means and did have opportunity to have been a gunman in the assassination—to have fired at JFK’s head at close range (33 feet) by means of a pistol, held to the eye and aimed and fired, hidden within, and outwardly disguised as, a box camera. 

The author says the Z313 head shot occurred just after JFK passed Babushka, which would put JFK if hit by Babushka as a hit from behind.

Then Babushka, who did not hit the ground like everyone else at the time of the shots but remained standing unaffected, bundled up in anonymity, walked away and disappeared to history, her identity unknown and no photos from Babushka’s supposed camera ever came forth.

Forget Jerrie Cobb for the moment, even if this is a book about Jerrie Cobb. For there is no reason to suppose Jerrie Cobb was other than the pilot of that twin-engine at Redbird that day—not at Dealey Plaza. 

Just consider the Babushka-as-gunman idea for a moment in itself, on its own merits.

Is that not ingenious? Was Babushka ever considered a suspect or ruled out as a suspect in the FBI’s investigation?

If not, why not? 

Would this not have made a great “Colombo” or James Bond episode, of an assassin in broad daylight, walking away unsuspected while police scramble madly to hunt for hidden gunmen shooting from buildings or from behind fences et al? 

Against the notion of Babushka as a shooter I can imagine at least one objection: that Brehm and two other other curbside south knoll witnesses, Mary Moorman and Jean Hill nearby, did not tell of hearing a shot fired from immediately close behind them.

Could that be addressed by supposing a silencer on the pistol? A silencer still would not totally suppress sound, right?--but it would depend on how much ambient noise there was in the background, whether a human ear watching the parade would pick it up behind them? Maybe even more, there is all the discussion over the years over that forward movement of JFK’s head a split-second before the Z313 violent-backward. Could a coincidence of two practically simultaneous shots mean that witnesses only heard the non-silenced one, and did not notice the distinct one from Babushka if there was one? Could Babushka have fired one of those two shots, hitting JFK in the right parietal or right occipital of JFK’s head? 

(Or alternatively, the shot that hit JFK’s back but did not penetrate more than 2”, at the timing Cliff Varnell always cites of Bennett riding in the car behind JFK, if that was the timing?)

Babushka Lady as a possible mechanism for both an assassination of JFK at close range, and escape of the gunman after the shot, is that not ingenious?

Just assassinate the president, then calmly walk away openly, weapon in hand, unsuspected, seen by hundreds of eyes in person and millions of eyes on film, and fade into disappearance forever, no problem!

Is that not an ingenious suggestion?

Is it possible that possibility never occurred to the Secret Service or FBI, or the Warren Commission or HSCA, or to researchers before author Haverstick publishing in 2023? 

Does anyone know of a falsification to this idea retroactively justifying a lack of law enforcement consideration of this as a possibility?

(Note the question is not whether Babushka Lady fired a shot at JFK, but whether it was proper not to have considered that she/he could have.)

Edited November 24, 2023 by Greg Doudna

[Paul Brancato]

Good questions, fascinating book. Seeing as the author’s research appears entirely original, without the usual access to the researchers who’ve been studying this for decades (other than John Newman, who she apparently knows - the extent of that relationship is unknown), I’d give her a pass on getting everything right. I haven’t finished the book, but at least by the middle it seems that her point of view is that there were two individuals, June and Jennie, by photo evidence, but operationally maybe one individual using dual or multiple identities. Have I read that wrong? 
Her research on Harvey and Silver, indicating development of a high tech weapon that Harvey even sketches, may indicate that Babushka, or someone else, was using something other than a conventional gun. 

[Greg Doudna]

4 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

Good questions, fascinating book. Seeing as the author’s research appears entirely original, without the usual access to the researchers who’ve been studying this for decades (other than John Newman, who she apparently knows - the extent of that relationship is unknown), I’d give her a pass on getting everything right. I haven’t finished the book, but at least by the middle it seems that her point of view is that there were two individuals, June and Jennie, by photo evidence, but operationally maybe one individual using dual or multiple identities. Have I read that wrong? 
Her research on Harvey and Silver, indicating development of a high tech weapon that Harvey even sketches, may indicate that Babushka, or someone else, was using something other than a conventional gun. 

Yes Paul, original research from archives and documents as well as the personal relationship with the figure of interest, all not leaked in advance but a complete (and well-edited and well-written) book dropped whole "like a bomb", going to the heart of ZRRIFLE, QJWINN and the CIA persona cover name June Cobb. And yes it seems in addition to her own numbers of hours in archives and traveling to archives, there is something of John Newman in the background, considered one of the most respected JFK document researchers (and he met "June Cobb" once and Haverstick reports Newman consistently refused to rule out that photos of Jerrie Cobb were a match to the "June Cobb" he met). Last weekend there were back-to-back strong talks at Lancer by David Boylan (last up Fri night 11/17/23) and Larry Hancock (first Sat AM 11/18/23). There were other strong Lancer papers as well--a somber Johnny Cairns speaking in (literal) poetry of what the loss of JFK meant for America and the world stood out, synthesis of sounds and meanings of words reaching to the heart underneath the facts--but Boylan and Hancock building further beyond their Redbird Leads paper seemed to me especially to break new ground. (Boylan in his talk in my opinion and excitingly to me at long last solved the identities of the two men with Oswald at Silvia Odio's door after so many false leads and speculations on that these many years, and it connects Oswald right back into certain circles in New Orleans.) I wonder how Boylan and Hancock, as well as others experienced with the ZRRIFLE and QJWINN documents, will interpret and/or integrate the research and interpretations of Haverstick's chapter 5 of those operations.

Haverstick did discuss Bill Harvey's notes and drawings of a mysterious new weapon called "Button" with a drawing of something that looks maybe like a taser or slimmed-down semi-rifle shape of something but not a normal rifle. I doubt that was Babushka's camera though because if there was a pistol in Babushka's camera and maybe a silencer as well it would have to be very compact and snub-nosed, not looking like Bill Harvey's drawing. But, Harvey's name for the mystery weapon, "Button", could evoke a camera button, who knows. 

One thing gives the reader an involuntary gallows-humor smile: author Haverstick's wicked double-entendre when she reports finally working up the nerve to ask Jerrie Cobb if, when she was at Redbird with all the photographers and cameras supposedly in the plane of which Jerrie spoke, she had left Redbird "to go to Dallas to shoot Kennedy". (as in shoot pictures, get it?)

(Jerrie Cobb said no she did not leave Redbird "to go shoot Kennedy".) (That answer of Jerrie Cobb I actually believe was true, contrary to the author.)

From Haverstick's account, it almost comes through that while Jerrie Cobb never departed from overtly denying that she was June Cobb, like people burdened a lifetime with secrets wanting to confess, Haverstick says she acted like Jerrie wanted Haverstick to find and tell the story of her as June Cobb. Jerrie Cobb, if she was the CIA operative Haverstick found her to have been, would be under lifetime sworn obligation of secrecy to the agency not to reveal or discuss that. By having Haverstick find it on her own, did that function as Haverstick both confessing but abiding by her oath at the same time?

If Haverstick's account or expose holds up, it is a tremendous female spy story (referring here to the real Jerrie Cobb), though a black spy story if there was witting involvement in assassinations. Haverstick makes a serious case that a compartmentalized assassination capability was legally set up under William Harvey early in the JFK presidency with the conscious idea of being capable of being used against JFK if he did not cooperate with what some insiders believed a president's foreign policy should be toward e.g. Cuba and the Soviet Union, sort of a contingency plan that maybe became activated and resulted in Nov 22. 

And William Harvey's words, "in case of blow" be prepared to blame it on "Russia or Czechoslovakia". 

Haverstick does not suggest the following, this is from me, but in light of many other examples cited by Haverstick of "open code" sound-alike and similar-meaning words spoken openly to mean something else, it just sounds to me like "Czechoslovakia" in that statement stands for (really means) "Cuba". Soviet bloc, starts with "C", by far the known blaming interest was Cuba.  

"In case of blow", blame it on "Czechoslovakia" (sic, Cuba). Some books continue to do that to the present day with the JFK assassination, the original agency-approved conspiracy theory of the JFK assassination. 

[Larry Hancock]

For those who decide to dig into these claims, the good news is that the history, including work history, of Jerri Cobb of aviation and potential astronaut fame is well known, very public and well documented.  That should give a good baseline for checking out the claims and proposition in the book:

https://www.okhistory.org/publications/enc/entry.php?entry=CO010

https://medium.com/the-vintage-space/was-jerrie-cobbs-first-female-astronaut-good-girl-image-an-act-877c94428c55

https://airandspace.si.edu/stories/editorial/remembering-geraldyn-jerrie-cobb-pioneering-woman-aviator

The final article listed has her buying an Aero Commander in 1963 but instead of Dallas flying it into the Amazon as a missionary pilot.

So in this instance we have an individual who has a substantial public record for reference, not to mention prior historical studies and research on her life -  contained in numerous other books.

 

 

 

[James DiEugenio]

Nice one Larry.

Thanks.

[Jonathan Cohen]

While I wait for the hardcover to arrive, can Greg or someone else explain whether the author truly claims Jerrie and June Cobb were the same person, or simply that their individual clandestine activities were somehow merged so as to create the impression that they were the work of one individual?

[Greg Doudna]

16 minutes ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

While I wait for the hardcover to arrive, can Greg or someone else explain whether the author truly claims Jerrie and June Cobb were the same person, or simply that their individual clandestine activities were somehow merged so as to create the impression that they were the work of one individual?

Not claiming Jerrie Cobb and June Cobb (no direct relation apparently), both born in Oklahoma a few years apart, were the same person, no. Claims that Jerrie Cobb in adult life selectively claimed at times a CIA cover persona as “June Cobb” with a personal history based on the real June Cobb. Author does not say what happened to the real June Cobb. Author says the “CIA” June Cobb who worked for Castro and testified to Congress and was in Mexico City and maybe something with Oswald’s trip there, was actually Jerrie Cobb claiming to be June Cobb, not the real June Cobb. 

So it is a selective impersonation theory in this case but not necessarily of someone still living. 

[Greg Doudna]

…

Edited November 25, 2023 by Greg Doudna

[Jonathan Cohen]

25 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said:

Author does not say what happened to the real June Cobb. Author says the “CIA” June Cobb who worked for Castro and testified to Congress and was in Mexico City and maybe something with Oswald’s trip there, was actually Jerrie Cobb claiming to be June Cobb, not the real June Cobb. 

So it is a selective impersonation theory in this case but not necessarily of someone still living. 

Ok so in other words, the author is claiming “June Cobb” was not actually a distinct, real person, but rather an amalgam of different clandestine operatives?

[Greg Doudna]

7 minutes ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

Ok so in other words, the author is claiming “June Cobb” was not actually a distinct, real person, but rather an amalgam of different clandestine operatives?

There was a real June Cobb born in Oklahoma, real girl who grew up, not an amalgam of anything. Then at a later stage there is a missing real June Cobb and instead an alias June Cobb with identity papers etc used as an identity cover by Jerrie Cobb and in documents operationally, by which the CIA’s June Cobb work is not attributed to Jerrie, thanks to the alias. 

Edited November 25, 2023 by Greg Doudna

[Greg Doudna]

Author sees a connection between a Jerrie Cobb colleague in the women astronauts initiative program named Jane Pearson and June Cobb’s case officer according to CIA documents named Jane Pierson. 

Author does a lot of timeline, dates and places analyses, arguing for matchups between the covert June Cobb persona and the above ground famous aviator Jerrie Cobb. 

[Greg Doudna]

Author claims a CIA person named “Jeri” and alternative spelling “Jerri” named on three QJWINN documents, one a marginal handwritten note written by “Jeri” to “B.”, presumably Bill Harvey, matches the signature of Jerrie Cobb. Author shows photos of the two signatures of “Jeri” and “Jerrie” and it is quite striking as a match. 

Edited November 25, 2023 by Greg Doudna

[Greg Doudna]

Author compares the pay documents in CIA files for June Cobb and QJWINN, dates and amounts, and on its face June Cobb the CIA operative was very poorly paid. Author says after QJWINN was shut down Jerrie Cobb may have received a huge payout into the millions in value in the form of rare and valuable “pre-Colombian gold” and related Inca artifacts and antiquities. Jerrie Cobb would sell them anonymously for huge amounts through Sotheby’s in NYC with proceeds to her charitable foundation, the Jerrie Cobb Foundation (ostensibly assisting indigenous tribes of South America), but which ended up as Jerrie Cobb’s personal wealth. Author suggests that is how Jerrie may have actually been paid by CIA (through whatever cutouts) for highly valuable Cold War work. 

Edited November 25, 2023 by Greg Doudna

[Paul Brancato]

Looking at pics of babushka lady I don’t see a camera. Can someone point me to a better pic? 

[Greg Doudna]

Author has a wild but apparently true section from documents on the CIA’s June Cobb (Jerrie Cobb acc to author) installed in a bugged hotel room in NYC (with her knowledge), with adjoining room filled to the gills with CIA and eavesdropping, around the time of the debates at the height of the Nixon and JFK presidential campaign.

Author says CIA badly wanted both presidential candidates to support US proactive regime change in Cuba so that that would happen, and although JFK had been briefed and was hawkish there was still uncertainty about him. June Cobb, major Cold War operative, at the same time she was supposedly a leftist working for Castro, was in that hotel room wheeling and dealing with highly placed campaign operatives in both the Nixon and Kennedy campaigns, in one case sending over to her contact Richard Goodwin, JFK’s speechwriter, a hawkish prepared speech for JFK written in JFK’s voice hoping Goodwin would use it and have JFK speak that.

According to author Haverstick, Jerrie Cobb was very knowledgeable on Cold War politics and history. The CIA June Cobb (Jerrie Cobb per author) was no low-level flaky honey-trap as made out by CIA legend-making (says author), but was an important operative of the agency for whom the leftism of June Cobb was pure fiction. And the CIA was directly trying to influence policy of presidential candidates in an election toward specific desired ends. 

Edited November 25, 2023 by Greg Doudna